Totally agree. Organic or not - you can have something very bad happen with produce. That was my point, not that organic was unsafe.

Got any links? The limited research I've done says the opposite of what you're suggesting but I'm always interested in learning more. Also, you mention pesticides. Organic farming uses pesticides - they just use organic ones. I assume you're aware of this but your posts makes me question if you do, or not.

[/QUOTE] Got any links? The limited research I've done says the opposite of what you're suggesting but I'm always interested in learning more. Also, you mention pesticides. Organic farming uses pesticides - they just use organic ones. I assume you're aware of this but your posts makes me question if you do, or not.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I was misunderstood. I am not saying that there is any difference in the nutritional value between organic and non-organic. The difference is that we are ingesting poison with non-organic, and yes, organic farmers use natural organic pesticides which, from what we know now, are not harmful to us... But that could change with more research. In addition, the USDA doesn't place any limits on heavy metals, contamination of pcb's, bpa, and other synthetic chemicals and does nothing to address the environmental sources of pollution. Reasons like these are why I think people should do their own research, because there is never a defining answer. You just have to get all the information you can and decide for yourself. The absolute best food to eat, obviously, is from your own backyard but that is a high-maintenance leisure.

Oh, I have no links but there has been a lot of research under the mayoclinic, there are some good journals such as the "international journal of food sciences and nutrition", journal "food quality and preference", there are also some decent articles in the Wiley online library.

Hope this starts you off on some good reading.

Well organic doesn't mean 'no pesticides', it just means that the pesticides have to follow certain guidelines. So treat your organic food as you would any other food, wash it well.

I'm guessing the food I've gotten at asian markets is pesticide free because I've seen enough bugs in my food from there I don't shop there any more for other reasons but also the food quality started dropping in general.

The food industry is a cause particularly close to my heart. I take great interest in it. This TED talk touches is on one aspect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA Of course if you google TED talks about food you'll find dozens of great lectures about this sort of thing.

The movie Food Inc. was especially detrimental in opening my eyes to the food industry process.

yikes i eat a LOT of strawberries a day and not organic. they're costly. idk.....

The difference is that we are ingesting poison with non-organic, and yes, organic farmers use natural organic pesticides which, from what we know now, are not harmful to us... [/QUOTE]

With respect - organic pesticides are not harmful to us? This is far from true.

Your other points about the food industry are valid but actually have nothing to do with organic vs non organic.

[/quote]
With respect - organic pesticides are not harmful to us? This is far from true.

Your other points about the food industry are valid but actually have nothing to do with organic vs non organic.[/QUOTE]

You should look up actual pesticides. The difference between a pesticide such as agent orange (which is so poisoness it was used as a weapon during the Vietnam war, and the few veterans still alive are consistently suffering from a drawn out death), and a natural pesticide like pyrethrin which is derived from the pyrethrum plant IS the difference between non organic and organic when it comes to produce. Agent orange is not used by ANY farmers in the US today but we still import from countries that do. I didn't mean that natural pesticides cannot be harmful but there aren't really any conclusive studies. And when given the option between the two, it's obvious that natural is far better for the human body.

To be honest, I'm not longer interested in convincing people to choose organic (those who can afford it, of course). To me, it's a personal choice and it makes sense. I'm going to look up that documentary mentioned (In Organic We Trust) because it does sound interesting.

For example, I'm kind of amazed at how many lipsticks contain lead. There are no acceptable amounts of lead we should be exposed to and yet women put it on their lips on a regular basis. Same thing goes for anti-persperant. It contains aluminum as the active ingredient to prevent sweating. Aluminum is one of the worst known neurotoxins but we are all being assured that it's perfectly fine and safe.

Same goes for Gatorade having some horrid chemical and a little girl went on to prevent it from being used in this country. I'm not sure if it took effect yet or not because I wouldn't drink that stuff anyway, but it just goes to show you. Nobody is really looking out for us. We need to do what makes sense for us. It IS annoying and a bit of a battle to live with less toxins, but everyone should do what they think is right.

Sorry for my little rant.

"With respect - organic pesticides are not harmful to us? This is far from true."

Got any articles/links?

My fiance works at an organic orchard...and he's never had to wear a hazmat suit to work.

In fact, the primary pesticide they use is made from dried Chrysanthemum heads. Far cry from DDT. lol The primary fertilizer they use is what I shall refer to as fish soup, basically decomposing fish.

I have children that are VERY synthetic chemical/flavoring/dye sensitive. Conventional berries give them hives. Organic ones do not.

Needless to say... we avoid GMOs like the plague and I buy organic whenever I can.

Big mega-farm organic is very different than small farm organic, and many organic pesticides are as dangerous or even more so than many non-organics. I'm convinced that small farm non-organic is far safer than mega-farm organics.

I suspect that mega-farm organic is marginally better than mega-farm non-organic, but that neither are better than small local farm products.

Whenever I can, I will buy small local over mega-farmed whenever I can. In the summer months, it's often even cheaper. I favor the Hmong vendors because they tend to favor traditional farming practices and grow heirloom varieties. You can see that they do not use pesticides, because you'll see where insects have nibbles here and there on leaves. I don't trust the local certified organic farms because there's no sign of my little taste-testers doing their job. I feel that if a bug won't eat it, maybe I shouldn't eat it.

I have read a lot of the comparison research and I'm convinced that the difference between mega-farm and small-farm is much greater than between organic and nonorganic, especially since many small farms would qualify for organic certification if they could afford to apply. Instead, the save themselves and their customers the expense.

I think the nutrition and health-risk difference between mega-farmed organic and standard mega-farmed produce is rarely worth the added expense. Small, local, certified organic is high quality, but very expensive. Whereas small, local, non-certified is often cheaper and of higher quality - and you can find organic grown without pesticides just by asking the vendors a few questions (and by using your eyes).

Another plus with local growers is they're often extremely proud of their growing and harvesting methods and will gladly discuss them. I started gravitating towards the asian vendors because (at least in my area) they're very proud of the fact that everything but the heartiest vegetables and fruit are picked the morning of market ( and you can usually tell).

For me local trumps certified organic every day. I'm not convinced though that mega-farm organic is any healthier than traditionally farmed mega-farm produce.

Good points! I totally agree. Monoculture factory farming is the big problem, here! We shop local farmers markets and use a CSA. Some of the things are not 'certified' organice, but don't cause my kids problems, either. I love being able to talk to the farmers about their produce. They are always so proud! It turns food buying into a whole different experience .

I think if you liked "Food Inc." I think you would like "In Organic We Trust"... and a lot of it was filmed here in NYC... Some of it at farmers markets (Union Square... still one of my favorites), they also visit a school that is using organic ingredients in the school lunches, and a community garden in Brooklyn that grows organic vegetables and has paid internships for NYC high school kids... and the kids get to take home some of the vegetables they help grow... It was really nice to see...

"I'm convinced that small farm non-organic is far safer than mega-farm organics."
That's how I feel too. Safer and better for the environment as well.

"Whenever I can, I will buy small local over mega-farmed whenever I can. In the summer months, it's often even cheaper."
This has been my experience too. I mean, I won't sugar coat it, I'm pretty poor...my honey does work on an orchard after all, and I'm a student...not much money there! When it gets to be this time of year especially, it's cheaper for us to go to the farmer's market. If you buy a lot of meat, I can see how it would be more pricey...but produce is actually pretty dang cheap at our local market.