Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2884660)

no because my husband has 12 aunts and uncles...didnt you read that? Her mental state is the ONLY concern I have...My husbands family were those christians who dont believe in birth control and she had 12 kids...They are fine..All college grads and ALL have jobs and familes of thier own..They love eachother so much...they just dont trust anyone else...sucks for me...

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2884664)

I see...and we are looking from the outside...the media portrays everyone in a negative light....Lets just hope she does her best...LIke the shows on TLC where they have 18 kids! Whats the difference? They are married? Thats it....The only reason she is so in the media is because she had 8 at one time...

Originally Posted by Quiet Ballerina (Post 2885422)

Woah. Do not blame this woman's craziness on society. That is a cop-out. She is not the only woman on earth to suffer childhood trauma (if she did, I don't know her backstory).

Nurses wise: She has 5 during the day and 4 in the evening.

You talk about your husbands family having 12 kids.....this case is different because 8 of them were born at once. She's unemployed. She's single. She doesn't parent her kids.

The show on TLC (with 18 kids) is different because:
The parents work, and they have real estate that they rent out for extra income. They take care of their kids and actually educate them and control their poor behavior. They both have big families, true, but I think it's two entirely different scenarios.

Originally Posted by ajowens (Post 2885425)

How the EFF did she lose all of that weight and skin in 3 months??

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2885580)

And I'm pretty sure that they had two parents who weren't unemployed.

No one can raise 14 kids by themselves with no job. She's getting by on charity.

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2885585)

Well, the Duggars are married, it is a two-parent household, and the husband has a job. Neither are on disability, and their kids are of all various ages which makes it easy for them to take care of their younger children. All of Nadya Suleman's kids are under the age of 10.

You can't compare the two, I've watched the specials on the Duggars and they're very responsible well-rounded sane people. Nadya Suleman is not.

You have to look at it from the facts. She's unemployed. Single. On disability. On welfare. And all of her kids were from IVF, which costs thousands of dollars per treatment. You don't think that's in any way irresponsible?

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2885958)

If you read my ENTIRE post and didnt just comment on what would be relevant you YOUR argument...I ALSO said it could be childhood trauma or neglect....

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2885969)

And Im pretty sure you dont know what their situation was..He was an abusive alcoholic...so she eventually started fostering children....She had a total of 15 children in her home at one time...She had to take care of herself and her kids after he died of a heart attack...And money isnt the only way to take care of kids....People with less children are on assistance.....I just said mentally she should get help so she can be better for her kids..

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2885970)

For the hundredth time...I NEVER SAID SHE WASNT IRRESPONSIBLE but I don tremember GOD giving me my platinum perfection card...So Im not going to judge her...I hate that everyone has to look at things from the same point of view or you get angry....You came in at the end of the debate....

Originally Posted by EZMONEY (Post 2886380)

I had good parents...

look what happened to me

Originally Posted by walking2lose (Post 2886427)

Kiahna - I just want to say that I really respect how you have held your own in this discussion without making snide personal comments toward anyone, though a few have been directed toward you. It's interesting because you are the lone voice here calling for compassion and understanding- why can't more of us be this way? I don't think anyone wants to be judged harshly for her own mistakes, yet so many of us are quick to judge others. I personally find being overly judgmental or critical to be one of my own worst qualities - I love to watch reality shows and at times do gloat over another's misfortunes or even gossip about people I know. I truly dislike this quality in myself and have worked to improve it... although I don't work on it as hard as I should.

It's hard for me to be as nonjudgmental as you are (including about this topic), but I commend you for both your ability to try to understand the whole person, as well as to stay composed in this discussion.

Originally Posted by Windchime (Post 2886449)

And I'm wondering....how does a student find the money to get IVF in the first place? A friend of mine is looking into it, and it's $15K for the FIRST treatment alone.

Originally Posted by Chelby29 (Post 2886280)

All I have to say is, if my son hit me and called me a b****.... God rest his soul!

Originally Posted by Quiet Ballerina (Post 2886255)

Would you like to be the pot or the kettle? Because you did not read my entire post either.

I said to blame it solely on society is a cop-out. I also said that I don't know if she suffered childhood trauma or neglect...however, even if she did suffer childhood trauma and neglect, that still isn't an excuse! She isn't the only one to ever experience any suffering. You've shown that yourself with your own story. If everyone that suffered any hardships acted the way she does, the world would be in complete chaos.

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2886369)

I came in at the end of the debate? I made the first or second comment. *is confused*

I just don't like it when people make excuses for their or other peoples' behavior. Ok, so she might have had a bad childhood, so what? Plenty of people have bad childhoods, and they don't go out and spend thousands of dollars on in vitro and have 14 kids. No number of excuses excuses her behavior or her choices.

She has problems and her children deserve ot be raised by a stable parent. Her kids will most likely be taken away by child protective services, people like her are why CPH exists. No number of nannies will raise those kids right.

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2886505)

Making mistakes at the expense of yourself is one thing, but making mistakes at the expense of another (or 14 others in this case) is an entirely different case.

Originally Posted by walking2lose (Post 2886427)

Kiahna - I just want to say that I really respect how you have held your own in this discussion without making snide personal comments toward anyone, though a few have been directed toward you. It's interesting because you are the lone voice here calling for compassion and understanding- why can't more of us be this way? I don't think anyone wants to be judged harshly for her own mistakes, yet so many of us are quick to judge others. I personally find being overly judgmental or critical to be one of my own worst qualities - I love to watch reality shows and at times do gloat over another's misfortunes or even gossip about people I know. I truly dislike this quality in myself and have worked to improve it... although I don't work on it as hard as I should.

It's hard for me to be as nonjudgmental as you are (including about this topic), but I commend you for both your ability to try to understand the whole person, as well as to stay composed in this discussion.

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2886533)

I didnt make excuses...your not listening..your the type of person who is like "so what you had it hard...overcome it right now!"not reality...your mind is extremely complex and can make or break you....How about this..How about we agree to disagree...you think everyone should react to things like you think they should...Its just not reality....I hope she gets better and I hope for the best...

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2886511)

From disability checks.

Originally Posted by walking2lose (Post 2886534)

But being understanding of the person and where they've come from is an admirable thing, no? That's what I was driving at - I agree she is likely going to damage 14 little lives and personalities but still do we need to judge, judge, judge (criticize) or somehow reach out in a positive way. By "we" I mean all of us and society in general.

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2886536)

I've had it hard, I had cancer. I had a boyfriend go overseas for a year and a half. And I'm not going to blame other people for it. His dad is mentally ill and blames everyone for his problems. He just sits there and feels sorry for himself and hates on everyone around him. And he only has himself to blame. I overcame my problems and didn't play the blame game, which is what she is doing.

She won't get better if she doesn't get help, and she looks like she isn't going to be getting any professional help any time soon. Just like my fiance's father won't get better because he doesn't think that he's ill, and he thinks he's right, and he'll live the rest of his life alone because he won't get help.

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2886536)

I've had it hard, I had cancer. I had a boyfriend go overseas for a year and a half. And I'm not going to blame other people for it. His dad is mentally ill and blames everyone for his problems. He just sits there and feels sorry for himself and hates on everyone around him. And he only has himself to blame. I overcame my problems and didn't play the blame game, which is what she is doing.

She won't get better if she doesn't get help, and she looks like she isn't going to be getting any professional help any time soon. Just like my fiance's father won't get better because he doesn't think that he's ill, and he thinks he's right, and he'll live the rest of his life alone because he won't get help.

Originally Posted by walking2lose (Post 2886534)

But being understanding of the person and where they've come from is an admirable thing, no? That's what I was driving at - I agree she is likely going to damage 14 little lives and personalities but still do we need to judge, judge, judge (criticize) or somehow reach out in a positive way. By "we" I mean all of us and society in general.

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2886541)

But congrats on battling and overcoming cancer! I couldnt imagine that! I couldnt mentally do it and hope i never have to...thats awesome...

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2886540)

Where maybe hes not ready to come to grips with it..If hes mentally ill he isnt thinking straight anyway....I couldnt imagine having problems like that...Not everyon eis you...and you cant expect them to react how you want them to....Thats kinda narrow mined...not to be mean...but you cant expect the world to do what you would do...its not fair...And what you see isnt always the truth in every case...Some can paint a pretty picture and show the real behind closed doors...

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2886563)

No, he's in his 50s, he'll never get help. He'll live alone for the rest of his life because no one wants to have anything to do with him. Once you've reached the point of being a paranoid schizophrenic that late in life, cutting off everyone, there will be no break through or "coming to grips" with it.

And people help themselves every day. To sit there and say that it shouldn't be expected of everyone is faithless almost. If I can do it, she can do it. If you can lose a lot of weight, so can I. We might not be the same person, but we're both people. Know what I'm saying?

And if she really was that helpless or in need of help that bad, CPS would have to come in.

Originally Posted by Windchime (Post 2886537)

I'd be suprised if this were possible, unless disability checks in her state are a LOT higher than they are here.

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2886631)

I get what your saying...I just think that we cant all "overcome"...so of us will fail...Thats why the world isnt perfect...No compassion without pain...I think I saw that in a movie lol..GOD give us all perfect lives or the ability to possess such determination...I really believe that...If he did everything would be perfect....And its evident that it isnt....I hope she gets better and I hope her kids have the best lives possible...She does give stuff away but we dont know why..So what she gives stuff away...We dont what is on her mind or the depth of her detrimental state....I think someone should help her because stress can make anyone crazy and I wouldnt want her to harm her kids..Like millions regardless of how many kids or how rich they are do everyday....NOT everyone will overcome....I dont expect anything of anyone else...I only expect things for myself....If you continue to expect things and believe everyone can overcome odds you will just stress yourself out...Your doing great...just think about you and your family...not in a selfish way....you know what I mean....

Originally Posted by walking2lose (Post 2886427)

Kiahna - I just want to say that I really respect how you have held your own in this discussion without making snide personal comments toward anyone, though a few have been directed toward you. It's interesting because you are the lone voice here calling for compassion and understanding- why can't more of us be this way? I don't think anyone wants to be judged harshly for her own mistakes, yet so many of us are quick to judge others.

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2887239)

She's in California, so I dunno. Maybe her parents also chipped in.




Then that's really defeatist if you think we can't all overcome our problems. I know if my fiance's father started going to a psychiatrist and taking meds, his problems would most likely go away, but he won't because he thinks he's sane.

Yes, you'll fail.... but you have to think of what this woman's supposed problems are. Growing up lonely. Boo-freaking-hoo, that doesn't mean you go out and have 14 kids when you're unemployed and on disability and single.

Please stop making excuses. I'm not even talking about having a "perfect" life, I'm talking about helping yourself before you hurt other people, and for you to sit there and say that's not possible for some people is false. And defeatist. Look at how much weight you've lost, it's obviously possible to help one's self.

Maybe I just don't understand what you're saying. She won't get better unless she gets help. It isn't magical and doesn't happen overnight. She was crazy before she had the 8 babies and she IS getting help from a team of nannies, and no, a psychologist cannot help her if she does not want their help. By her giving away charitable donations, it's apparent she doesn't want anyone's help. Understand?

And if you really do think that not everyone can overcome their problems, then that is defeatist and a very negative attitude. People have gone from being homeless to being millionaires, homeless to going to Harvard, grown up in an abusive home and become incredibly successful.

Everyone has the power to help themselves. Everyone.

Originally Posted by juliastl27 (Post 2887461)

i think when you're parading your private life for a documentary on network TV and holding a press conference in your living room as you return home with 2 of your children from the hospital, you're opening yourself up to be judged. this was HER documentary and the time for her to show HER side of the story. i went in perfectly open minded and if anything, WANTING to see some good in this woman who everyone is picking on. it just wasnt there, bottom line.

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2887556)

you saw what they wanted you to see...thats how the media works..Many think if you go to Compton California then you will be shot on site...NOT TRUE! I lived there majority of my life...Media portrays everything as negative as possible..they need people to watch....drama drama drama....thats all they want...listen to that Nas song "I know I can"...and that where is the love song by black eyed peas.....all of what they say is obvious....

Originally Posted by juliastl27 (Post 2887593)

actually what i wanted to see was a woman who has been misrepresented by the media. i was internally rooting for her and wanting to see a good mother who has been bashed by the tabloids. instead i saw a woman who is almost childlike and out of touch with reality. she is even quoted in the show as saying that she didnt think about the consequences, and that she "screwed up" her life, and her kids. that was the most realistic thing she said in the entire 2 hours. this wasnt a tabloid article, this was HER documentary that she wanted to have. it was her chance to prove everyone wrong. she failed in my eyes, and i think in almost everyones eyes.

Originally Posted by kiahna23 (Post 2887537)

smh (shaking my head)....I hope everyone in the world overcomes what you want them too....

Originally Posted by EZMONEY (Post 2887813)

Oh you are soooo bad WOLF....so bad...

LOVE-LOVE IT!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68 (Post 2888028)

It has nothing to do with me or what I want. You're not getting it. All I am saying is that if people want to, they can overcome pretty much any problem they have. and I think it's bull**** to just sit there and make excuses for people when they can improve and change pretty much any situation they're in.