I was horrified when I read this... An innocent 22 year old man brutally murdered for NO reason at all! Quietly listening to music, while sleeping... A 40 yr old man sits beside him only to take his life a while later... Apparently beheading him, while stabbing him 50 - 60 times.
I'm scared to talk the bus now... It's like you can't go anywhere that is safe anymore. What the **** is this world coming to?!?!?!?!?!
This was absolutely disgusting! I watched a bunch of eyewitness account videos and I just can't believe it. It happened just a few hours north of my parents house.
How does a guy decapitate someone on a bus and nobody does anything to help??? It's not like he had a gun.
Last edited by tonimaroni2; 08-02-2008 at 01:38 AM.
Yeah it's pretty hurtin'. I don't understand how nobody could try and save him either... A knife if all those 30 people beat him down, that guy would probably still be alive today... if he had a gun - Completely different story. It's so sad.
How does it happen on the bus? I ride the bus every day - not a greyhound just the local city buses. It happens because - well- for me anyway- I keep my headphones blasting and my nose in a book to avoid anyone talking to me, overhearing something that i don't want to hear, and keep the loonies away from me. People don't help because they either aren't paying attention until it's too late, panic and don't know what to do, or unfortunately think to themselves- this is not my problem.
I remember once overhearing and witnessing a man abusing his wife on the bus. My husband stopped me from interfering because- well if he hits the woman he loves, what's the stop him from hitting me!? I was upset at the time but I guess I sort of understand where he was coming from.
I think the most important thing on a bus for me is to- have my book and headphones as a "shield" against the loonies- but also being VERY aware of my surroundings. I try to find a balance, just in case because you never know.
this story is really sad and scary because you never know what is going to happen.
I do the same thing you do with my headphones and such. The worst part about this though is the victim was asleep against the window with his headphones on. (according to the eye witness account)
I wonder what caused the accused to murder this guy though? I mean my goodness, he was asleep! Clearly he wasn't hurting the killer... I wonder what provocted (sp?) him!
I read the story here in Virginia and was horrified. The killer sounds like he was very disconnected from what he did (witnesses said he was robotic and emotionless- didn't even seem angry). My BF's brother is schizophrenic, and when he was diagnosed a few years ago she and I learned a lot about it. I learned that some (certainly not all or most) schizophrenic can become violent if they have no treatment or medication to deal with hallucinations, voices, etc. This is my only guess.
Why in the world did NO ONE on the bus try to stop him?? I understand the fear for own safety, but was there not one or two men on board who could have attempted to stop the man or overpower him-- throw a suitcase at him or something? It sounds like people just watched it happen.
Horrific and so sad.. I may have nightmares about this story.
Random acts of violence have always existed. I'm not saying that we should be complacent or tolerant, just that it has to be put into perspective. This isn't necessarily a "sign of the times," because there have always been crazy violent people. Much higher populations, living and working much closer together, does increase the probability of violence and of bystanders not intevening. Studies have shown that people are more likely to intervent the smaller the crowd - and it isn't that they don't want to help, they don't think to help. They're all shocked that "no one" helped (not even realizing they were part of the no one). The smaller the group when things like this happen, the more likely people are to help. It's just one of the quirks of human psychology. Everyone thinks that they would be one to help in a situation like this, but when the time comes, they stand frozen watching it, just like everyone else.
That's why we were always taught in first aid classes not to yell "someone call 911," but to make eye contact with one person and say "you, go call 911."
Another thing from the perspective of someone with a little law enforcement training. When I had to be trained in self defense for my job as a probation officer, we were taught that in close situations a knife is much more dangerous and difficult to disarm a person of than a gun. The knife can do a lot more damage with greater accuracy in short range than a gun. If someone is close enough to cut you with a knife, you have a higher probability of getting fatally wounded from the knife, and you're reaction time is more likely to be able to dodge a bullet than the knife (because a miss is as good as a mile with a bullet - it's possible that the bullet will miss vital organs, but with a knife any good cut can be a fatal one if it even nicks an artery). If you're struggling with a person with a gun your survival rate is many times higher than struggling with a person with a sharp knife. Not that most bystanders would know this, but still it could easily happen too fast for anyone to have been able to help, even if they were quick to action, because you can make several stabbing motions in the time it takes to shoot one bullet (with most guns).
I think the bigger tragedy in this case isn't that people weren't able to disarm the guy during the incident, because no matter how quickly they'd reacted, the outcome could have been the same, but rather that it ever came to that point in the first place. I would find it very difficult to believe that the perpetrator was perfectly normal up to this point, rather he'd probably exhibited disturbing behavior for months or even years before this incident. Now it's possible that friends, family, and professionals had done everything in their power to help him and keep him from being a danger to others. It's also possible that this was a psychotic break and the first sign of mental derangement, but the larger probability is that he has a long history of mental illness and insufficient treatment. Too often schizophrenics are treated and released with medications, but those that are or become unable to pay for their medication refills, they stop taking them.
Of any medication should be free, antipsychotics should be at the top of the list.
I would find it very difficult to believe that the perpetrator was perfectly normal up to this point, rather he'd probably exhibited disturbing behavior for months or even years before this incident. Now it's possible that friends, family, and professionals had done everything in their power to help him and keep him from being a danger to others. It's also possible that this was a psychotic break and the first sign of mental derangement, but the larger probability is that he has a long history of mental illness and insufficient treatment. Too often schizophrenics are treated and released with medications, but those that are or become unable to pay for their medication refills, they stop taking them.
Of any medication should be free, antipsychotics should be at the top of the list.
Great point(s), Colleen, and I couldn't agree more. When my friend's brother was diagnosed, she and her dad were struggling (big time!!!) to pay over $800..00 a month for his necessary meds! Unreal. He is now a ward of the state, and thankfully, he is doing fairly well right now. They had to make him a ward of the state because it was the only way to get his meds.
so its a horrifying thing - its awful.
i looked up the victims myspace page and its just such a weird thing - he was so young and so full of life... goofy self photos and all...
heres the thing that bothered me from the start of hearing all of this... this kid was stabbed reportedly over 60 times and then was decapitated. people saw all of this happening from the first stab and they all got off the bus.
i havent heard any reports of anyone trying to HELP this kid! if someone is going to tell me that 1 knife wielding (not even gun - but a KNIFE) 40 year old who, according to reports, was not even in a frenzy - but was just robotically doing it - could not have been overtaken by a few of the people on the bus and they could have gotten this kid off and potentially saved his life... its crazy!
i know its a stressful situation and people usually try to save themselves.... but STILL. im not saying law yourself out in front of the guy with the knife... but seriously - SOMEONE could have taken the guy down...
its a weird thing, but i think its becoming a more common trend - people are not stepping out to help people who are injured or in danger as much as i'd like to think that people used to.
its something i see a lot in our trauma bay at work - man assulted with barstool, knife, gun, cue ball, lamp... - 20 people witnessed - 2 people called 911 - everyone else stood out of the way and witnessed. for every 10 cases i have seen of everyone else stopping and just watching, i've seen maybe 2 cases where someone steps in the act to try to help the victim - and frequently - saves that persons life with (generally) minimal injury to self.
the only bus thing is just horrifying, but its also pretty horrifying that from how its being reported - people just got off the bus and no one tried to disarm this guy or help the kid. they locked the guy on the bus - sure. no one wants the guy coming out and hurting them too - but...
i dunno. maybe i'm being too callous, but... ggrrrrr.
I think that shock IS the likeliest explanation. Many, if not most of those people will have some kind of post traumatic stress from this incident. Many will blame themselves for NOT reacting. Most will have not been sure if it was "real" during the attack. It is so OUT of their experience for this to happen that they won't have known WHAT to do.
Also, wrestling the man to the ground sounds like "someone should have," but the fact is that probably would have resulted in more casualties, not less. It's not so easy to wrestle a knife out of a person's hands - cops don't try to do it - and many people have committed death by suicide by threatening cops and pedestrians with knives - because the cops don't wrestle a knife away from a perpetrator. If they can't talk him down quickly, they shoot him - and they shoot to kill the moment it even appears that the guy is going to "lunge" at someone. Just as they shoot to kill if a gunned man lifts his gun as if aiming at someone (another popular suicide by cop move).
Also, it's very likely that with the first knife blow, arterial blood would pump, spurting great distances. In the day of HIV/AIDS, how many people are willing to jump into a pumping blood fountain?
I'm sorry to be graphic, but I think it's so easy to point fingers and judge people for behaving like frightened people, not superheros. If you truly believe that you personally and unarmed would take on a crazed murderer with quarts of a stranger's blood being sprayed in your direction - well, you're a much better person than I, and you have every right to criticize. Otherwise, I think it's irresponsible speculation to judge people who will probably not get a good night's sleeps for months to come. Some will probably need to be in counseling, and many may never get over the tragedy they witnessed.
Greyhound Bus Slaying
