Why do people cremate?
 

*** I thought I should put a little disclaimer that this post may be offensive to some...but I have some real questions and things to get off my chest. ***

Just wondering...this may be a touchy subject for some, and if it is, please don't read this. I'm having a rough time in the last week or so because I found out the my daughter's estranged father passed away at 46 years old. Although he was a great aggrevation to me in the last 13 years or so (since my daughter was born and during my pregnancy) and I haven't seen hide nor hair of him in over 7 years, I'm having such a hard time with the fact they cremated his remains. I don't know why it bugs me so much...probably that I was intimate with him and we were once VERY close, not only as boyfriend/girlfriend, but as close friends, as well. I mean, we didn't hit it off as a couple, for reasons I don't feel like getting into here, but we went through lamase classes and childbirth together and I can't tell you how long he practically stalked me when I was 19 years old until I finally conceded and went out with him and had a blast with him. It was all SO long ago, but I'm having such awful images in my mind of him in a furnace and being burned to ashes...envisioning the father of my child lying on a slab, looking much the same way he used to look while sleeping and keeping me up all night with his incessant SNORING (!!), but that same profile (I loved his nose...very Italian) being engulfed in flames and turned to dust. Its just bringing up such emotions, I can't even tell you. And I haven't even seen him in seven years!

So, my point is...why do people cremate their loved ones' remains? I'm not trying to be gruesome or macabre...I just really want to know...is there a spiritual relevance? Is it to save money and/or space? Is it that maybe someone was so destroyed by cancer or other illness or destroyed to a point they wanted to destroy the body?

I suppose I'm ultra sensitive, as well, as my daughter looks EXACTLY like her father and it brings it closer to home...but I don't see the effects of this cremation on my psyche goign away any time soon and maybe some insight would help from those with opposing views. My daughter's father is the first person I've really known that has been cremated...everyone else I've known was buried in tact in a coffin and that didn't have any effect on me at all except to know they had passed on...I jsut feel like they mutilated him and its kind of bugging me...maybe mutilated is a bit strong, but its just BUGGING me.

My mother in law was cremated, as well, but she died before I could meet her and my husband says he has feelings that are the same.

Any help please?

I plan to be cremated. I will be dead, I don't really care anything about my body, cremation is a much much much cheaper option. I would respect any of family's wishes in regards to this final matter. If they want to be cremated and have their ashes scattered in some remote place, cool. If they want a big funeral and a crypt in a mauseleum, cool.

To me, cremation seems like a tidy solution. It's quick, it's cheap, it definitely doesn't HURT - I would be dead!

My philosophy - The shell is here, but the nut is gone.

Just curious - what do you feel about organ donation? I am an ardent supporter of organ donation and have made my intentions very clear in my will and to my family/friends. Would you consider that mutilation as well?

Techwife, I hope I don't offend, I know this may be tough for you.

Death is difficult to cope with. I had a very tough time with dealing with death when I was in High school. I had a lot of relatives, especially close ones, die all in a matter of a short period of time. I was so tired of funerals that I stopped going to them. I haven't been to a funeral in a long time but that is more of circumstance than anything else. So death is hard but it is something we all have to cope with at some point or another.

Now having said that and being removed from your situation, I have had some relatives die recently and they too were cremated. It is unusual for my family to do cremations but there are many cultures that do cremate.

Your loved ones/former loved ones are no longer in the shell that was their body. Depending on your beliefs, you can say they are somewhere else or they cease to exist. One way or another, their bodies become dust, either through the natural process or through cremation. In cremation, their bodies are no longer there quicker than in other forms. So really, there body no longer serves the purpose it did during their life so why not cremate? I know it may bring home the fact that they are gone quicker than burying them. But do you really want to think of them as sticking around in their body while buried 6 feet underground? Whatever your beliefs, follow them and think of him somewhere else, somewhere better.

Give yourself some time to mourn, get angry, frustrated, etc if you need to then remember him for the happy memories that you had together and the fact that both of you created a life together.

Edit: Forgot to add that I don't care if I'm buried or cremated. I'd probably be cremated and then ashes spread somewhere. I don't feel like taking up burial space when I'm dead because I won't be there.

I am sorry to hear of your ex's death and your rough time.
I grew up in a Catholic family where there was big time resistance to cremation, that I don't understand. With the growing population there is simply not enough room on the earth to have everyone buried in cemeteries. So for me it is a matter of land use that causes me to want to be cremated. Also as others have said, I believe that when the soul leaves the body, the body no longer has any use so I don't see a reason to attempt to preserve it. Just my opinion.
Hope you will find peace with what has taken place....

First, I am so incredibly sorry that you are going through this. No matter the current status of your relationship, it's never easy saying goodbye to someone you share such history with.

When my best friend's mother passed on at 45, she was cremated as well and her young daughters (13, 19. and 21) had a very difficult time with it at first. They lost her so suddenly and at such a young age, that it was like insult to injury that they wouldn't be able to grieve "with" her at her grave.

But that was her wish and she had made that very clear to her husband and the girls did find peace with it, especially since she lays in inturnment (or however you say it).

My parents both want to be cremated and it is the common practice in my family, so I don't know if I will have an issue with it or not when that time comes. My mother is a "free spirit" of sorts and I think her thoughts are that she wants to be scattered in the wind and she finds it silly to take up space when she's not really "here". I think in cases of cremation, it does come down to the person's wishes. I have always assumed that burial is the practice if the person didn't specify their wishes. I do think that it is harder for family members to accept sometimes, but the people I know who have experienced that have always found peace.

Again, I'm sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. I hope you find your peace soo as well :hug:

I want to be cremated when the time comes as well. My mother has also decided she wants to be cremated. Her mother (my grandmother) passed away about 2 years ago, and my mother said it was the hardest thing she's ever had to do in her life to sit in the funeral home during the viewings and service and have to see her dead mother's body laying right in front of her. She said that when the time comes, she wants to be cremated so that my sister and I don't have to go through that same thing (not that losing a parent is easy by any means in either way, but I completely understand her point).

I guess the way I see it is that there is no real reason to keep the body intact. The person inside is gone, so what's really the point of keeping the body together just so it can rot in the ground? I know that may sound harsh, but it's true--is there really much difference between turning the body into ashes right away versus letting it decay and crumble naturally over time?

And, yes, it is much less expensive as well. No sense sticking my loved ones with tens of thousands of dollars in unnecessary (IMO, of course) expenses.

I guess I'm quite the opposite--I would think the only reasons to keep a body intact might be spiritual, and based on my own personal beliefs, I see no benefit.

No matter what is done to a loved ones body after they die, it's never pleasant. Personally, even though I had very similar thoughts as yours when my father was cremated, it was much worse for me for years to wonder about my grandfather, who was locked in a little box somewhere below the ground. And it's probably that thought that makes me want to be cremated also, and in fact I want my ashes scattered, not kept in an urn. I know that once I'm gone, I won't care, but I can't stand to think of it now, so I've had to make that desicion, to make it easier to LIVE with the thought - does that make sense?

My father was cremated for similar reasons, which was his own wish.

I guess my point is, it's never easy, but some people are more bothered with the thought of burial than cremation. Anyway I think the most important thing is to respect the wishes of the person who died, if they had any.

I am sorry for your loss. Lots of hugs to you :hug: :hug:

I was going to say basically the same thing as Nelie. First DH had wanted to be cremated when he passed (didn't think it would be so soon) and that is what we agreed on. I honored his wishes but when I started thinking about it I thought what a horrible thing to do. I could see his body burning in that stinking oven. Do you know that if you wish you can actually watch them do it? Ummm, no thank you. But I remembered our talks about death and burial. He did not want his whole body to be put in the ground...he said he just kept picturing bugs and such crawling all over his dead body, even though they wouldn't be able to get in the coffin, I think. Anyway...my whole thought is that once a person dies they are no longer with us. Their physical body is but their soul/spirit has already moved on and that is what helped me not think of the process of cremation. After losing a baby a few years ago we did the same with our little baby boy and it didn't bother me this time. I too plan on being cremated.

First of all, hugs to you and your daughter at this difficult time.

When my grandmother died, she was cremated, which I didn't quite understand at the time (I was 16 and this was the first person close to me who had died). Turns out her husband had also been cremated and their ashes would be together at the mortuary. So that made it a bit more understandable.

Years later, I found out that my mother also wishes to be cremated and both DH and I feel the same way. Why take up space? We won't be there. No one is going to come and visit us. Spread my ashes somewhere--anywhere really. I just don't wish to be "planted."

On the other hand, it is the wishes of my father that really throw me for a loop. He wants his body donated to science. He will be a cadaver for medical students. That totally grosses me out, but he was a doctor and he understands the need for such things (I guess). So we won't have a funeral for him--just a memorial service.

Glory asked about organ donation. After having worked in the medical field for many, many years, I think that organ donation is the most wonderful and altruistic gift you can give. If any of my loved ones (and yes, even my children) were injured in such a way that there was no hope, I would not hesitate for a moment to donate their organs (despite how hard it would be).

Actually, this is the first time I've ever given it much thought but the thought of being cremated in one fell swoop is much more pleasant, in my opinion, than decaying for weeks or months or years (ICK!). Try not to think about what happened after he died. It sounds like you had some good times before the bad....try and dwell on those. That's the essense of his earthly life, anyway.

Tech, I'm adding my condolences on your and your daughter's loss. You have lost someone you shared so much with and without so much as a goodbye. I was raised Catholic Christian and for the longest time was told that cremation was not allowed because the body is a temple and would be returned to you in perfect condition upon entrance to heaven. Views changed and cremation was allowed in certain circumstances, but you had to have the body intact to perform any religious ceremony. The church has since changed it's views in 97 and has allowed the cremated remains to enter the church for the rites of burial. I don't know the exact reasons why, but I am glad they now allow it. I have told my husband that I wish to be cremated and then scattered--not at sea, because I don't really like the sea, but maybe somewhere or several places that I have traveled and loved. He jokes that my remains will be scattered at Target in Las Vegas and at WalMart here at home. :lol:

Other religions, esp. Buddhism or Hinduism cremate because they believe the smoke rising from the body allows the soul to leave and enter heaven.

I choose not to think about the visuals of the physical body being cremated, nor do I choose to dwell on the same if it were buried. Upon death, the real "soul" of a person is gone on to a better place and the physical body is just a shell. My 2 cents. :hug:

Alinell, I think it's really interesting that people would donate their bodies to science. Our medical school here is no longer taking names because they have enough names of donors. The only thing that I would regret is that in my town, you can't have the body for any ceremonial or religious purposes. The univeristy gets it right off the bat.

First of all :hug:

My husband and I both plan to be cremated, it just fits more with our beliefs. (And as corny as this sounds...I am extremely claustrophobic, burial just doesnt suit me)

My father was cremated when he passed a bit over a year ago. One of the truly beautiful parts of that for him (he knew he was dying) is he got his ashes spread at the place that was most meaningful to him. He was a professor of theater for over 40 years at a small college in PA. Teaching and directing were his life and he was never more him then when he was there. (I learned far more about my dad by observing his productions and his students than I ever did from him directly)

The bulk of his ashes were scattered in the pond behind the theatre where he used to go to think and plan. The remainder were spread in a circle around the building that houses the theatre . If any part of the spirit remains with the body, then his spirit is in the place he loved most and the only place in his life that he felt comfortable with who he was.

What meaning is there in a graveyard.

I'm a strong believer in cremation too. The visitation process and the funeral service don't have to be any different, the only thing that changes is the interrment and, for most people, it is the service that is the time when goodbyes are said.

There are two main reasons that cremation appeals to me -- one is very general; it seems such a waste of land to take up large amounts of it to bury people's bodies after they are gone -- the other is personal; I hate the thoought of bugs getting on me. What I don't like is the idea of someone keeping me in a vase on their mantel. Either bury the ashes or scatter them, please.

My Dad always said he wanted to be cremated and that he did not want to be embalmed. When he died 3 years ago I had a very hard time with this because I was 3000 miles away when he died, I never got to see the body. I think that would have helped me alot if my grief. But, I had too much respect for his wishes to have him embalmed just so that I could see him. He wanted to be cremated because he didn't want a fancy, expensive, elaborate funeral. Also, he felt that since he was dead, what did it matter? He was cremated and after his funeral my brother brought Dad to Florida and spread his ashes on the beach he used to patrol as an Airforce MP years and years ago.

My partner and I both plan to be cremated and have our ashes scattered into the ocean together once we both have passed. I've come to realize it's not what happens to your body once you've passed........it's what you do with it and your life while you are here.

Shannon

Originally Posted by royalsfan1:
Actually, this is the first time I've ever given it much thought but the thought of being cremated in one fell swoop is much more pleasant, in my opinion, than decaying for weeks or months or years (ICK!).

This was my first thought. If the image is troubling, there can be an equally disturbing image of burial. I really have no leanings towards either. I'm not particular with what happens to my body when I'm gone, since I won't be living in it any longer. But I guess it's like moving. If the new tennants in my old house burn it down, I might miss it's passing. Maybe I could have driven by it once in awhile...the memories. With a grave, I think it's more for the people left behind, they can visit. So maybe that's why our obsession with burial so much. Hard to say.

I also plan to be cremated. My father died a couple of years ago and he was cremated. Our family owns a few acres in the country with a picnic area with tables, a creek that flows through, volleyball court and horse shoe area. We always enjoy our family gatherings there and so thats where he wanted to be for all times. We scattered his ashed there and just as we began it started to rain. My dad was such a prankster that our thoughts were...he planned this. Picture us....my three sisiters, mother, my brother, our spouces and all the grandkids trailing behind my brother as he scatters the ashes and we are all looking like drowned rats. We know he was watching us and laughing up a storm. (as soon as we finished spreading the ashes the rain quit) We all got tickled too just picturing him laughing at our expense as he always had a prank to play on us. It made the situation not as sad for us. My dad always said he didn't want to be pinned up in a casket but wanted to be set free to blow in the wind. I know that he wasn't there, but it makes us as his family a little happier knowing he is where he wanted to be. I also don't like the thought of being put in the ground to decay over a long period of time. I'd rather be done with it.

I am sorry for your and your daughters loss as well.

I too want to be cremated. It is easier on my family and I like the idea much better than burial, which honestly creeps me out. I wouldn't force the idea on anyone though just as long as they know what I want, to each is own.

I look at burial as one of those long standing rituals that we really don't need anymore. I just choose not to do something just because it is the norm. My son is not circumcised for the same reason, there is no real reason to bury, nor is there and real reason to mutilate. So I choose to make my own choice. Same goes for religion. --Sumi

I’m so sorry to hear about your loss. Even though you haven’t had any contact in years that doesn’t take away from the time you did have together, and losing someone you were once close to is always very difficult.

What deep and personal thoughts. Thanks to everyone for sharing.

I’ve always been of the mind that what happens to my remains isn’t too important, and I’d rather not have the expense/space/whatever used on the remains. Plus I think the traditional embalming and such really creeps me out and is very unnatural. My family traditionally goes that route and I really hate viewing a passed loved one in a casket. In fact, the least depressing service I’ve ever attended was for a friend in high school who ended up being cremated. They had a ceremony where anyone who wanted to come up and share stories could, and they released butterflies inside the church (she loved butterflies). Beats a bunch of morose people hanging around a casket in my book any day. Just my opinion, I know everyone has very different feelings about this.

Originally Posted by alinnell:
.....
On the other hand, it is the wishes of my father that really throw me for a loop. He wants his body donated to science. He will be a cadaver for medical students. .....

Angie and I have placed these wishes with our children's "It's Time!" box...if at all possible to be used at UCSD.

Glory asked about organ donation. After having worked in the medical field for many, many years, I think that organ donation is the most wonderful and altruistic gift you can give. If any of my loved ones (and yes, even my children) were injured in such a way that there was no hope, I would not hesitate for a moment to donate their organs (despite how hard it would be).

My entire family have organ donor on our D.L. As I get older I don't think there is much of me that could be used...unless someone was looking for a model for their "Don't Do This To Yourself" Poster, that is why the cadaver intrigues me.

Originally Posted by melekalikimaka:
...... I have told my husband that I wish to be cremated and then scattered--not at sea, because I don't really like the sea, .....

****~O NOELLE! Plus you can't swim! :swim:

.

HEALTHY2BE~ Your father cracks me up! :rofl: :lol3: :rofl: What a :cool: cool guy!

I know EXACTLY where I will be when I die. I have instructed my kids that if it is or close to trash day...bag me up! Save some $$$ for the PAR~TAY :carrot:

All kidding aside, if my body cannot be used for some purpose medically, then the kids and Angie know to have me cremated. As a family unit we all agree on this for all of our remains. The Big Guy we believe in is not going to have any trouble "creating" us new ones! As far as the ashes...well, I have told my kids that if they want to do something with them, fine. As for me, I have told them I have no problem leaving them with the crematorium. Us guys at work joke around that when we go, we will put the ashes in our mud buckets and spread them on the walls of whatever house we were working on! Works for me ;)

When my father passed away about 20 years ago, we were going to have him cremated, he had already made the arrangements...that was his wish. My grandmother, his mom, wanted NO part of that...the OLD SCHOOL thinking here. As a family we decided to honor our grandmother's wishes OVER our dad's...she was here and had feelings...he was long gone and didn't care! It was NOT a difficult decision for us. She flew him from California to Illinois in a box, buried him next to my twin brother, his father, grandfather and grandmother...grandma was buried next to them all 12 years later...she could've cared less then...but she cared for 12 years that dad was where she wanted him. We never looked back! Later Pops! :wave:

Originally Posted by EZMONEY:
As a family we decided to honor our grandmother's wishes OVER our dad's...she was here and had feelings...he was long gone and didn't care! It was NOT a difficult decision for us. :wave:

dh has said that although he strongly prefers cremation, he thinks his mom might have a problem with it, so if he were to die before she did there would be that possibility. But I am pretty anti-burial, so she would have to express a strong feeling.

If we did bury, we would go with the non preserved body in a simple (decomposable) pine box. No preserved airtight wood that keeps things preserved. At least let us fertilize the soil. Its the embalming and airtight casket part that really bothers me --how many years do we need that body sitting there.

Hey Ennay, is there any way you three could "talk" that over before the day arrives? I know statistically YOU will be making the decision...but it doesn't always go that way of course. Those types of decisions have been very easy for us. Even my father in law...Catholic from day one..wouldn't even attend church with Angie and I, at our church, one Easter Sunday, had to go find a catholic one, when he was here visiting. He wanted to be cremated when he passed, my mother in law was totally against it, she asked their kids, 4 of them, if it was all right to bury him, they told her that cremation was what dad wanted and they were all in agreement with it..but...if it was a big problem with her, they would consider burial..she said she would honor dad's wishes. So it went easy...but might not have.

Did you know that there is a company that can take your ashes and create a "diamond" from them? It's horribly expensive, but pretty cool if you don't mind wearing someone!

First, I am so sorry for your loss. I can imagine his estrangement from your daughter is making the emotions much more complicated.

I'll jump in here with an experience I had that made me first consider cremation myself. First of all, two of my grandparents were cremated; the other two were buried. I've always known that my father's wish is to be cremated when his time comes. He has always said he wants half his ashes spread in the woods and half in the river. He loves to hunt and fish, so this makes sense, as well as going back to nature. So, I guess I never thought it was that odd, but more of an option.

Then, about 10 years ago I visited an area of Prague in the Czech Republic that had been a Jewish ghetto before WWII. The cemetary was so strange, yet interesting and thought provoking also. The conditions were so crowded in the ghetto that coffins were buried vertically, as well as several deep (horizontally) in spaces. The headstones were all just crammed everywhere. I was touched by the tragedy of a people who had to resort to this undignified way of burying loved ones, simply because there was no space to bury them decently. I remember my sister and I having a pretty deep discussion about all of this, and it is the first time that I thought seriously about cremation. I can totally understand your horror at imagining the cremation itself, but I believe, like many other posters that burning is no more gruesome (maybe less) than the embalming process.

Anyway, my thoughts and prayers are with you as you go through all of this. It has certainly provoked an interesting and different discussion here on 3FC!

Take care

Originally Posted by alinnell:
Did you know that there is a company that can take your ashes and create a "diamond" from them? It's horribly expensive, but pretty cool if you don't mind wearing someone!

You can also get blasted into space...which would be dh's first choice.

Gary....welll....truthfully no. dh's mom isnt good with the topic and she already has lost one child. It took over 30 years before she could mention his name again and talk about him. (I had been with dh for over 5 years before I even found out he existed) I think SIL tried to talk about plans once and MIL just said she was going first so she didnt need to know about it. They are a good midwestern family...button everything up and dont talk about nuttin. (How did I get hooked up with that, huh?)

Like I said ENNAY, we lucked out, I do know most people don't, when it comes time for the arrangements, for one reason or another.

Firstly, as so many have said, I offer my condolences.

I also want to be cremated. Here are my reasons:
1. I don't want the worms to get me. Seriously, I have a crazy phobia to all wormy things.
2. I don't want to be on National Geographic Channel 5000 in a couple thousand years or end up on display in a museum.
3. I don't want for my bones to be forgotten and a house built over top of me in a millenia.
4. All silly reasons aside..... I also believe in organ donation. I don't need my organs at that point but other people do so why not just help some deserving people out. It can be my last good act, a final mitzvah. Also, this might actually help my loved ones cope with my eventual passing, because all of me won't be dead. Some part of me can live on in other people and enhance their lives. I don't believe that the spirit dies and this way my whole body needn't die immediately either.
5. Earth-friendly. There are too many people and too little space to bury everyone.
6. I want a pretty urn. A blue one with phoenixes on it.
7. When my loved ones come to "visit" me they can be inside from the cold and rain and heat (because I want to be in an above-ground mausoleum). And this way they don't have to worry about the gardening aspect of a tombstone.
8. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. I just want the process sped along.

First of all Techwife, I am so sorry for your loss. And that of your daughters. How sad. And he was so young. My heart goes out to you at this difficult time.

The Jewish people forbid cremation. And yes that was even before Hitler decided to cremate a bunch of us while still alive. Embalming is also forbidden. One is supposed to be buried as soon as possible, if not that very day then the next. In a simple wooden box. Naked, just like you came into the world. The dead body is never to be left unattend while awaiting burial. The body is to be treated with the utmost of respect. With all body parts in tact. Which is why donating organs is forbidden as well. If you've ever seen a broadcast of a bombing in Israel, you will see many volunteers scrapping up blood and bits of flesh so that that too can be buried with the body. Every part is sacred.

It bothers me terribly that organ donation is forbidden. I can't think of a better thing a person can possibly do for another person then to pass on his organs that he obviously has no more use for. I have a friend who received a cornea transplant and was so grateful and so sad that she could never reciprocate that she gave a large donation (and she is NOT a wealthy woman) to the hospital that did the surgery.

Originally Posted by rockinrobin:

The Jewish people forbid cremation. And yes that was even before Hitler decided to cremate a bunch of us while still alive. Embalming is also forbidden. One is supposed to be buried as soon as possible, if not that very day then the next. In a simple wooden box. Naked, just like you came into the world. The dead body is never to be left unattend while awaiting burial. The body is to be treated with the utmost of respect. With all body parts in tact. Which is why donating organs is forbidden as well. If you've ever seen a broadcast of a bombing in Israel, you will see many volunteers scrapping up blood and bits of flesh so that that too can be buried with the body. Every part is sacred.
.

The Catholic Church was of this opinion (the cremation bit, don't know about he organ donation) up until 50 years ago. Otherwise you couldn't be put to rest in consecrated ground. Same went for if you were a suicide (don't worry, about me though, I'm ok, I didn't want anyone to send me a hotline number because of that comment). But that obviously changed. Which is good for me, because who wants to be put in the "special section" of your own religion's cemetery?
Also, I know that some Christian religions believe that the whole body has to be kept intact because they will be risen during the Second Coming.
(Someone correct me if I am wrong, I am no expert).

I am also no expert on, umm, well anything but I think if you commit suicide you can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery. And you're not allowed to be buried with tattoos either. There are a lot of DON'Ts and not alloweds in this religion.

I personally dont want to be cremated. I just dont like the idea of being burned. Everyone in my family has always been buried. But my hubby and his family are all planning on being cremated.

Originally Posted by shrinkingchica:
......
Also, I know that some Christian religions believe that the whole body has to be kept intact because they will be risen during the Second Coming.
(Someone correct me if I am wrong, I am no expert).

There is NO WAY I will correct you LOTTE ~ I already figured out you are one smart cookie! There are religions that say they are Christian, but they are not.

For me it's a matter of just preferring to not cost too much money, and take up space. I like the idea of my ashes being spread somewhere special to me or to my loved ones.
I am also an organ donor. I will be gone, so I won't care. Plus I don't really have any spiritual belief that would stop it.
I think it would bother me more thinking about decomposition than cremation... but really it's just not something I think about.
In fact, hubby and I should probably discuss it so we know...

I used to hate the idea of cremation, until the town I grew up in built an apartment complex over a cemetary -- because it was so old no one cared about it anymore. Also, after my MIL passed away, it bothers me often to think of her in the ground, even though I know "she" isn't there. I do like the idea of the grave stone, somewhere to go to pay your respects, but I feel she is around us all the time. I don't need to go to a cemetary to talk to her, besides -- if I was gone, that would be the last place I'd be hanging around anyway!!

A few years ago my parents picked up nursing home insurance and prepaid their funerals -- which I thought was kind of morbid at the time, but respect it now -- because I can't afford to bury them and because now their wishes are all in writing. They are being cremated. My big thing is the whole wake -- I see no purpose in viewing someone who has died, kind of morbid to me.

And, my friend's mother donated her body to the hospital, which I think is a very selfless gift for someone -- she was in her late 80's so organ donation was out and if it helps save a life, it's so worth it.

robin, actually the donation of organs was pretty hotly debated through the last couple decades with some rabbis coming down on the side of yes (saving a life overrides all other jewish law including desecration) some say sometimes (only if there is an immediate need, not to an organ bank and only after death has completed - sometimes life support is maintained during the initial part of surgery to preserve the organs, this would not be allowed).

likewise some rabbis say live donations are ok (kidney, blood) to help preserve life, others say no because it risks your own, however small the risk may be. (interestingly the rabbis who are most pro postmortem donation are most against living donation)

Most of the jewish rabbinical authorities now come down on the side of donation and donor card being not only acceptable but encouraged.

i love that judaism still DEBATES

I'm just curious, if you don't mind giving some detail -- if, being Jewish, you do donate an organ, what is the consequence within the church?

Originally Posted by ennay:

i love that judaism still DEBATES

Most religions do. It is a sign that it is alive and well. You don't hear too much about the Shakers having end of life issue debates. If they did it would be a two sided theological argument. Literally. There are two of them.

Originally Posted by shrinkingchica:
Most religions do. It is a sign that it is alive and well. You don't hear too much about the Shakers having end of life issue debates. If they did it would be a two sided theological argument. Literally. There are two of them.

ZING! :lol:

Ennay as far as I know, and that's not too much, especially on this topic, organ donation is strictly forbidden after death. Keep in mind there are many "branches" of Judiasim and they do not all concur. How shocking. But yes you can be a living donor, like a kidney, liver or bone marrow and of course blood.

Thanks, you guys, for all the thoughtful comments. I've been reading them all, but not replying because in my experience, when I reply to a post I started, it stops and I've been enjoying your insight so much I didn't want it to stop. I feel a whole lot better now, reading all your reasons for cremation, especially the reference to Buddism where they cremate the body so the soul can rise with the smoke. That's, actually, kind of beautiful. So, I will take that from all you've spoken of and think of Kevin having risen with the smoke to the heavens and feel better for it. With all of his drawbacks, he was a really spiritual person and I think he'd have liked that train of thought.

Reason I was so miffed with the cremation and all is...well...as I said, he's the first person I've known that's been cremated. Everyone in my family has been put in a box and left to rest in peace amongst their loved ones in the town my family comes from, together with the rest of their family, so it's just kind of a foriegn process for me. Second, his mother is absolutely loaded with money and very materialistic. Had a gigantic house in Naples, FL, fancy cars, etc. Kevin died in poverty and on welfare and she had his memorial service at the bargain basement place to have it and I assume the reason she had him cremated was to save money and to make him more portable to take him to Florida to be buried...where he never even lived...instead of where he did live or something. The whole thing seemed like it was done to save money because his mother was always embarassed of him because he became a musician instead of an accountant in a suit and tie.

When he died, she called me up and said...and I'm not exaggerating..."Now that he's out of the way, maybe we can work together to resume my relationship with my granddaughter." I said, "Honey, you have it all wrong...Kevin missed out on his daughter because of you...you didn't miss out on her because of him...it's the other way around!" Kevin and I were getting along just fine for about 5 years as parents of a child that simply could not get along until his mother got involved and wanted Grandparent's Rights and sued me, demanding I put my child on a plane to Florida alone at six years old. Kevin ended up suing me, as well, for visitation...in spite of the fact that I already let him come over when he could...because he was highly unreliable and in the end showed up for 12% of his visitation and that 12% only happened when his mother flew in on her broom from Florida. She put him up to suing me for visitation so that she would be lined up for the grandparents rights movement. She lost and I haven't heard hide nor hair from his family since. And now she calls me to tell me the above statement and says she needs a hug from her granddaughter. I may sound cold, but I really hate her and what she did to our lives and how she disregarded her own son's life...so my daughter and I skipped the memorial service because we just don't want that awful woman reinstated in our lives. Not to mention, although I'm feeling a bit sentimental about Kevin at the moment, at the end of the day, he dumped on both of us. 13 years ago, I needed him to get a job, marry me and support our family, but he decided to sit in the basement, smoke pot, play his guitar and talk to the other women he was interested in. And while I had my daughter in daycare, he stayed home and slept all day (I forced him to watch her one day, came home and found her crying in her carseat while he was on the back porch having a smoke...hence, I took her to daycare). From her forced visitation with her father when she was about kindergarden age, she had an honest visual of who her father was. We all know that memorial services are geered to pump up an individual and I didn't need my daughter to have some convoluted image of the father she missed out on, so I thought it best for my daughter to skip out on Kevinfest. We'll have a nice little ceremony this summer, just us two, maybe even in a park Kevin and I used to go to and sit by a brook and talk, and say our goodbyes without a lot of drama from the paternal side of her genepool.

All this aside, I still feel guilt for not going. My parents and all that know me and knew what I went through with his family all agree that I have nothing to feel guilt over. She even kicked me out of the house I lived in while my daughter was six months old because I couldn't pay the rent. She owned the house and instead of griping to her unemployed son to get a job an support his family, she called me at work and started in on how she could rent out the house to someone that would pay the rent! I was working two jobs and paying for daycare AND finishing up my last semester at college. My daughter was one of those gifts from God that he sometimes backhands you with. So, that fact that she kicked us out was a real slap in the face. Understandable that she was losing money on one of her houses, but I was doing my darn tootenest to raise her granddaughter with NO help whatsoever...and now she says she needs a hug from her. She can kiss my backside!

Anyhow...thanks for listening...I'm still enjoying your stories of why you cremate or wish to be cremated, so keep 'em coming!!