I've been PM'ing with people and the topic of cheats came up. Many of us post in here about our cheats. And we kick ourselves each time we do it. Or, we get frustrated with posters who know the rules and try to get around them.

See for me, the first 9 days were VERY important and I did it by the book (or at least, I didn't cheat knowingly, darn cryptic book!). Sometimes I get frustrated by people who, on the first day "taste" something they know they shouldn't and then hem and haw about it.

Now in Phase 2, if I have an extra tablespoon of cottage cheese, is that a cheat?

Or is a cheat binging on a bag of chips and 2 candy bars, per my lifestyle pre Fat Smash?

I think it's all how you look at it. I am not going to never ever have chocolate again (even though I am not the biggest fan). I would fail miserably if I went by that tenement. But having 3 Hershey's Kisses to settle a craving vs. a bag or two is a huge deal to me. And I am learning to have JUST 3 vs. the whole bag. I was never able to do it before, but with help online and from 3-D people, I've been able to!

I am a firm believer in "everything in moderation." I know my trigger foods. But eating an extra slice of turkey or .5 oz of chicken is not a cheat to me and I won't treat it as such. My goal is to get healthy AND lose weight. First and second.

What are your thoughts on cheating??? How do you define it?

I was on a WW forum called Bootcamp Buddies & cheating or talk of cheating was not allowed. It was on plan 24/7. Some newer members dropped out because they didn't like being condescended for cheating. However, that was the whole idea of the forum. No cheating! I'm pretty strict when on any plan & if I did goof up intentionally, I just didn't post it on the forum. It was a nice way to stay on track, though.

My tweaks with detox were having a cup of green tea after about the 5th day. I don't understand how we are allowed some lite salad dressing (full of non-detox junk), but no green tea until Phase II. Doesn't make any sense to me so it was a personal tweak I chose to make.

For the 1st 2 days I also had the Progresso lentil soup since I hadn't prepared any homemade soup. I still prefer the Progresso over my homemade version. It had salt & other non-detox stuff but I truly don't feel it was a cheat. Now, if I had lived on it throughout detox it might have affected my loss.

My other tweak was eating Dannon Light 'n Fit yogurt as I can't stand plain yogurt. I've tried (during another diet) adding fruit & Splenda to plain and it still didn't taste good to me. At 40 calories a serving I don't think it derailed me too much, even though it is not detox approved.

However, I can't see anything that will tempt me once I enter Phase II. Candy is one of my favorite things and with my granddaughter going trick or treating it won't be easy but I don't think going off plan for some crummy candy that I can have anytime I want to after goal (in moderation) will be worth it to me.

OK, I take that back. I have one planned cheat. Our annual Halloween party is tomorrow night & we stay the night in a Hampton Inn since it's a late party (dh is in the band & they pack their gear the next morning) & not that close to home. The Inn offers a breakfast with the rooms & they have these very light & fluffy waffles. I'm going to have one & not pig out on any other bad things on the small buffet. I think they offer fruit so I'll have a lot of that before the waffle. Since that is an annual event I'm going to allow that one cheat, and I might even change my mind or maybe they won't have them.

But allow me some cereal, a little cheese, some peanut butter and lean meat & I can stay on plan until the next phase with the exception of that waffle - LOL!

I like that you bring this up, Jenn, since I've been thinking a lot about it having just begun phase two. There were times during phase one when I guess it could be said that I "cheated" (like when I was a pumpkin recipe judge last weekend) that, while I couldn't get out if it, I did the best I could to not go too far off plan (taking the tiniest bites I could).

I'm taking this way of eating as a guide, and I'm trying to follow the book as closely as possible, so I probably wouldn't personally have the three Hershey's Kisses (or I'd try not to!), but I don't really see it as a "cheat," since it sounds more like plan preservation than anything else (meaning that if you didn't have the three, eventually you would break down and eat the whole bag, or something). Now, if you were to go out to dinner and have an 18 oz. ribeye, with garlic mashed potatoes and finish that off with creme brulee, that'd probably be more of a cheat in my book, since there'd no nod to the fat smash plan at all (tofu creme brulee, perhaps? With splenda on top? ).

On the other hand, I should be in phase 3 at Thanksgiving, and I do not intend for one moment to abstain from pumpkin pie, mashed potatoes, glass of wine, etc. What I do intend to do is have much smaller portions that I typically would, and maybe do phase 1 a couple days before and a couple days after (well, after I have that one turkey sandwich on white bread with mayo). Is that cheating? Maybe if I were going entirely by the book it would be, but for myself I don't see it as such since I know that I'm going to do it and am taking steps so that it doesn't throw me off plan too badly.

The point of all that rambling is to say that I don't think it's advisable to go entirely by the book, because I think that it sets us all up for failure. If you indulge just a little or having a slightly larger portion to keep you from falling off the wagon entirely, I don't see that as cheating. I guess in my book "cheating" would be eating an entire bag of Doritos and then wondering why no weight came off that week. I do think, however, that the plan ought to be followed as closely as possible, definitely in phase one and certainly in phase two and three, since the whole idea is to change your way of eating.

That's my take on it - but I'm a "shades of grey" person anyhow (and a long-winded one at that!).

Rachel and Judy -- thanks for your thoughts.

I like the idea of planned cheats. Nicole and I do that. Maybe once a week. We stay on plan and focus and plan one item (be it part of a meal or a snack) that we allow ourselves. We binged a few weeks ago and we didn't enjoy it. That was step one!

This week, I had a fun sized snickers bar. I was pms'ing something awful and I wanted a KING size. Instead, I got a fun sized bag, gave them to a close coworker and she put one on my desk one day during the week (she's on WW), which was today

Oh, well, Snickers...once Snickers are involved all bets are off, for me!

There's a reason the Halloween candy I got this week for Tuesday is Snickers-free!

The way I see it is that I'm only Human. I do have my cheats, but I picked right back up and keep going. Thanksgiving is coming up, and I'm trying to sort in my head what exactly I'm going to do. How bad do I want this? Really bad, I think, so I plan on eating a lot of the healthy stuff during that time, and then maybe throw in a tiny dessert. We'll have to see. I'm human!

I had my planned cheat tonight and it stunk. And now I feel guilty because it really wasn't worth the cals or the $$$!

I really need to start taking my own advice and working in the correct mindset or else I won't go any further than I've already gone.

Grrr. I hate this sometimes, you know?

jenne, have you lost your 40 in fat smash?

Interesting subject, Jenn. I have been having PC problems today. It is after midnight and I am finally getting to read the posts.

Dh and I had a planned "treat" today. I don't like to refer to them as "cheats." That implies that I should feel guilty for something. We went out and ate mexican food today. I didn't eat the most fattening thing on the menu... nor did I eat the least fattening thing. I ordered what I wanted and and ate every bite. The difference for me is that I was in total control of my choices. I didn't go crazy and eat everything in sight. We could have ordered pizza and ate until we were sick. Or we could have gone to a buffet and eaten all we could eat. But, I think that we made a good choice. We ordered our food and when we were done... we were satisfied. NOT stuffed. Did I have too many calories today? I am sure of it. Do I feel guilty.... NOT A BIT! I will get up tomorrow morning and continue my healthy eating. I think that for me... I need to "treat" myself occassionaly to keep from losing control and pigging out on any and everything I can find in my kitchen. Dieting is mostly mental. If I think I am being deprived.... I make bad chioces.

I think that if we deprive ourselves.. then we end up losing control. Moderation is the key. As far as Thanksgiving goes.. dh and I are gathering some healthier recipes to replace some of the more fattening ones that we usually have. But, we are still going to have dressing. I would feel majorly deprived if I didn't have dressing (stuffing ) on Thanksgiving. It is more about tradition than actually craving it. But, we aren't going to make as much as we used to. We are going to get a small turkey breast instead of a whole turkey. We don't want a lot of leftovers. I will have pumpkin pie, too.

Sherry

Thanksgiving "dinner" will also be a planned off-plan meal for me, too. Life is too short to give up very special occasions/holidays. In the past, the whole day would be a free-for-all. This time it will just be the dinner & I, too, will have some pie.

I will also not cover my entire plate with food and will not eat any off-plan appetizers, if any appetizers at all (my son & DIL have been having Thanksgiving & they're not the best dinner hosts - they have chips & pretzels & stuff like that for appetizers). I usually bring something fancier but I'm not going to this year because I don't want to eat anything before dinner.

However, I won't be bringing any off limit foods like I would have in the past. In fact, I'm thinking of making a crustless pumpkin pie (I like the filling better than the crust) & make it as close to plan as possible for my Thanksgiving dessert.

How I define cheating... it's an individual defninition for all of us in my opinion... I think that we all know when we lose control... and it's different for each of us... losing control is what I try to avoid. Decisions, that are well thought out, ...aka planned treats or whatever, are different than losing control because we can get back on track... our mindsets are different... and most importantly the aftermath is most likely different. I want to avoid that downward roll from losing control to guilt... to giving up.

my 2cents.

JEN...Great POST!!

I think having well thought out treats are what keeps me doing so well. I find that when I do have these "treats" I am more aware of how much to eat. Like yesterday, I had planned to go out to eat with my grandmother. And we always go to this place that has greek food. And I love everything on the menu..so I got veggie grape leaves, hommus and spinich pie. So when I was done ordering I drank a full 2 glasses of water. As soon as I got my plate I cut everything in half. I didnt feel bad or guilty..I actually felt great that I didnt eat everything and that I got in 2 big glasses of water..more like 4 actual cups water. And other than a couple pieces of fruit and 2 cups yogurt that Was all I had the entire day. Now I feel like I am good for a week, maybe more maybe less...but whichever..Im eating healthier, eating much smaller portions, and Im still loosing and feeling great. I don't miss that bloated feeling when you know you ate way to much, or being sleepy right after eating a heavy, or high carb meal!

No I lost it by calorie counting and exercise over 3 years time (really 1.5 -- i've been in a 1.5 year stall losing and gaining the same 15-20 pounds -- I originally lost 60).

I do planned cheating myself. To me it holds me accountable for my actions and I don't feel so guilty when I cheat because I planned it. The truth of it we are going into the holidays and they are going to be lots of goodies out there to tempt us so If I know I am going somwhere I will be tempted to go off the diet. I plan ahead, eat in moderation and get right back on FAT Smash. I feel more in control that way. This weekend I cheated quite a bit but it was planned and today I am starting Phase I again to get myself back on track. Don't beat yourself up when it comes to cheating. We are all trying to develop a better attitude towards food so once you cheat don't beat yourself up just get back on the horse again!!!!!