Namaste, Artemis!

Here is one good place to start:

http://www.buddhanet.net/

On the home page, look at the choices along the top. On the far right is "file library/resources." You'll find more topics underneath that--in fact, enough to keep you busy for a long time! LOL! But just pick and choose what you are interested in.

I am glad that the stress of family problems has passed for you.

And I will be glad when the advertisers get over the holidays and stop attempting to arouse desire in us all! LOL!

Be well,
Jay

Artemis/M,

Hello. Try http://www.zenguide.principles.com// for a discussion of the different schools of thought in Buddhism. The site offers concise explanations of Zen, Pure Land, etc. and contrasts them to more traditional Indian, Chinese, and Tibetan schools. It also talks about the Buddhism of Thich Nhat Hahn. His interpretations of Buddha's teachings are quite detailed yet geared to a Western audience.

Happy reading...looking forward to hearing from you soon...Cathy

Hey Cathy! Nice to "see" you!

I went to that site, but it seemed to be a Life Coaching site. ??? But I found a link to another site, www.betterbuddha.com, that has information also.

I am reading a book by Jane Dobisz, now a Zen master, titled THE WISDOM OF SOLITUDE. She goes on a 100-day retreat during winter in the mountains in Massachusetts. I guess it helps if one is younger! ;)

She takes with her beans, rice, sunflower seeds, miso, dried fruit, roasted barley tea, and a medium-size jar of Skippy peanut butter. That's it. Rather optimistic! The peanut butter runs out pretty quickly. In the course of the retreat, she does indeed lose weight, but of course it's not about weight loss. I recommend this book--it has some wonderful insights.

I am hoping I don't have to be snowed in in a remote cabin in order to make right food choices!

Jay

Hello to all, Hi Jay!

Oops, the names of the two sites are so close that I seem to have made a mistake. What I was referring to is not what I listed above, but is actually zenguide.com with sub-sites called "principles," "practice," etc. Please try again. I found Principles.com, which is the Life Guide (huh?) and not what I meant at all. Please accept my apology.

Zenguide.com has pages on The Four Noble Truths, The Eightfold Path, meditation (zazen) and much more. I looked at it and copied some of the material because it is pertinent to what we read from the masters. There is also a page that differentiates that various schools from Zen. At any rate, I hope some of you will find it useful.

Other topic: my obstace is that I use meditation for spiritual reasons, and it also has the side benefit of helping me fall asleep immediately (a good thing for a notorious napper like me). Unfortunately, inasmuch as I try to visualize better health and weight loss, it does not seem to work for me. Sure, I know the bottom line is diet/exercise, but I wonder if anyone else has had success with meditating and translating the experience to better appetite control. Also, with the holiday fare it was hard to pass up some things (luckily I did not gain anything). Anyway, if someone has had success with this, please let us know.

Wishing you all much peace and goodwill...Cathy

Hi Again Jay,

I read the link that you suggested in your last writing and must thank you very much for telling us about it. It is comprehensive without being difficult to read.

Cathy

Happy New Year to everyone who is lucky enough to have a human life today.

The thoughts of the suffering following the tsunami are overwhelming. :( May all sentient beings be free of suffering and the cause of suffering. May all know joy and the cause of joy.

To respond to raindancer1's question--my understanding of meditation is that it's a practice used to quiet the mind. The more one meditates, the more that quiet, clear mind carries into daily life. The quiet mind is more able to see things as they are, with less of the distractions of "monkey mind," that is, a mind with thoughts and desires running wild and interfering with awareness.

Thinking of meditation that way, I haven't used it to "visualize" better health and weight loss. That seems like a different practice to me. So, I don't expect that meditating will directly affect my progress--I think it's a more subtle effect. It's harder to eat "unconsciously" if one is aware.

A person can always make a conscious choice, of course, to eat more than is necessary or foods that are not healthy and/or are fattening, but if one does it with full awareness, the "mystery" of how the food got in my mouth is gone--can't play that game any more. And lots of other games go by the wayside, too, like "Everyone else gets to eat X and I don't--poor me!"

It also helps me to consider what my "goal" is in weight loss. If it is truly to be healthy, that's good! If it's to look like the people in the movies or on TV or in advertising, then it's just another form of desire.

I am so fortunate to be born as a human being, how can I not take joy in my body, whatever its size and shape? But of course, that does not justify indulgence and mindlessness about food.

Love to all,
Jay

Hello to All...my thoughts on the tsunami disaster are sad indeed. It is difficult to see it in any positive light at the moment, even though as Buddhists we are asked to do so. I read an article today by Robert Thurman on this, and my mind understands his words, but my heart is lagging behind.

Thanks JayEll for your response. Meditating does indeed make one more aware of many things, including what one puts in one's mouth, what choices one has (not to follow the crowd) and what temptations in the form of "conformity to body image standards" can do to make one crave results.

Certainly, as I become more aware of health (a positive thing) I am able to apply healthier principles. For example, I have totally given up refined foods (uh, what is white sugar?). I suppose I was looking for a "quick fix" to this interminably slow weight loss of mine. Actually, after seeing the doctor today, I have an entirely new perspective on it, and am looking forward to dealing with this from a different angle.

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts...wishing you peace...balance...health! Cathy

Hello Ladies,

Has anyone read the Lotus Sutra? I have read commentaries and interpretations on it. However, I am now reading the text itself (translation by Burton Watson), but would like someone to discuss it with. I know it is hard reading simply because of format/style. If anyone is interested, please let me know. Thanks.

Cathy

ps...how is the weight loss coming? any successes lately?

Hello, Cathy,--and all others!

I haven't read the Lotus Sutra but I would like to.

How weight loss is going: Since Xmas I have been going to a low-impact aerobics class three times a week and walking a mile on the other days. Many days I don't want to do it. But I do it anyway, and soon it's done. I am down maybe two pounds now--not sure. I'll check it today.

My attitude toward food has been different lately--I still find I want to snack in the evenings, but nothing sounds right. So I just skip it. The urge to snack seem to be looking for that "something else" to make me feel better.

My daily schedule has been a mess lately, so planned eating has suffered. Too much finding myself hungry and being too tired to fix anything, so going out instead. But I try to make good choices.

Jay

Hi All, Hi Jay,

Jay, thanks for responding. I find that our little Sangha for Loss is dwindling to just a few, but I hope people will become interested again eventually. Regarding the Lotus Sutra, I have finished the first 4 chapters, and must tell you it is an esoteric pursuit so far. The remaining chapters may be more practical, so I will persevere. Let me know if you start. Maybe we can discuss it here or PM. Artemis02 had the idea of writing out some of the principles and tenets of the faith and applying them to our situations (because of the dry spell that this forum is going through.) I think it is a great idea; maybe we can attract more contributors.

Keep at the weight loss, Jay. Yours seems as slow as mine, but I am still motivated. It has been next to impossible to stay on a diet per se over the past 2-week holiday, but at least there was no real weight gain. Now that Christmas eating is over, I can return to a specified shopping list, stocking the fridge properly, and no surprises. I am actually doing the modified Scarsdale Diet, which worked for me in the past. Now that I am older and taking some medications that add weight, things are slow slow slow. But, my body feels lighter. I encourage all to stick to it, and keep supporting each other on this forum.

Good health to all....may we all see our dreams realized! Cathy

Good Morning everyone!

So now that we are firmly into the New Year, how is everyone going with their weight? Has the New Year given everyone some renewed inspiration to deal with their weight problems?

As for myself my weightloss is going just fine. I seem to have had some changes in my thinking lately, which have been slow in coming but seem to be sticking solid. I am more concerned these days with how my body works and performs rather than the way it looks. I know that realistically even after losing all of the weight I need to, I will never fit the *perfect* model of what a women should be. Rather than letting that distress me I need to focus on the positive aspects of my body.

My body does a splendid job in birthing a new human life and also in nourishing that child. I need to fuel and maintain my body so that it works well. Taking the time to slow down and listen has meant that I am more able to understand those needs. Certain foods make me unwell, while others sustain me.

As for the thread, I thought perhaps we could create a more even dialogue by starting a new thread everyweek or fortnight that discusses some of the founding priciples of buddhism. We could discuss how those principles assist our lives and also our weightloss. Perhaps that would allow contributors from different schools of thought and experience levels to be able to participate. It may also encourage those that think they may be interested in inviting buddhism into their lives but who don't know where to start.

How do we all feel about that?

I hope you are all doing well.
Marianna

Hey, Marianna! Good to "see" you!

I like the idea of Buddhist topics for discussion. Perhaps we could begin with some versions of the Ten Precepts. It should probably be stated that the Ten Precepts are NOT the same as the Judeo-Christian Ten Commandments except in number. The first five are common to many sects, but the last five seem to vary depending on type of Buddhism. Here are the first five:

1. I undertake to abstain from harming living beings.
2. I undertake to abstain from taking what is not given.
3. I undertake to abstain from sexual misconduct.
4. I undertake to abstain from false speech.
5. I undertake to abstain from intoxicating drugs or drink.

Comments?

I think the discussion topic per week is a great idea. I read this thread avidly but as a beginner don't always feel like I have anything profound to add. :)

Hi Laura great to see you!

I can't claim to be a buddhist, but the more I investigate buddhism the more I try to incorporate some teachings into my everyday life.

1. I undertake to abstain from harming living beings.
~ I think most people assume this to be vegetarianism, but for me it is more concerned with the general approach I take to life. Life is sacred and as such I place a emphasis on people and animals being treated in a humane and respectful fashion. We still eat meat in out home, but purchase only free range meat that has been killed ethically. We have strong pacifist beliefs at home and participate in activism to have others treated humanely.

2. I undertake to abstain from taking what is not given.
~ Does this mean stealing? Hmmm.. it is just something that I wouldn't do.

3. I undertake to abstain from sexual misconduct.
~ Sexual misconduct is a difficult one, what one person claims is misconduct is another's ordinary conduct. It is heavily based upon cultural perceptions of sex. But I do believe it necessary for your individual wellbeing to have relationships based upon respect.

4. I undertake to abstain from false speech.
~ I think that this one is harder... I don't lie, but it is tough not to exagerate sometimes. I think it is easy to focus on the negative and blow events or occurances out of proportion. I know that when I have had a tough day and I might be retelling my day to my husband at times I have to catch myself from creating a different reality than the one that actually took place - making things seem worse than they really are. I think that I have become far more aware of not judging situations since learning about Buddhism.

5. I undertake to abstain from intoxicating drugs or drink.
~ We do drink alcohol at home. Mostly a glass of wine with dinner. With a toddler both my husband and I feel like it is inappropriate for her to see us drunk and we simply don't like it either. I breastfeed so drugs aren't an issue either.

Well thats me..

Can't wait to read other people's responses!
Marianna

Hello to All,

What a great idea to encourage people to contribute that Mariana had! And the responses certainly indicate that we are motivated. I do hope that new people will join and the beginners will stick with it. I want to stress to LKTS that no one is looking for any deep perceptions or erudite comments! We welcome all your comments and appreciate the contribution of people regardless of level of faith, understanding of the principles. We are here primarily to encourage each other to lose weight; this forum just uses the vehicle of Buddhist principles as a common ground. Things are relaxed here, and no one judges. So please, LKTS, do join us!

Jay, thanks for posting the first 5 of the Ten Precepts and for making the distinction from Judeo-Christian commandments. Here is my take on it, similar to my good friend, Mariana's:

Harm others: never! We are not vegetarian, we eat meat almost everyday, and I find it necessary given the culture I come from. I presume that what we eat has been slaughtered in a humane way.

Taking what is not given: Overall, we can easily admit that we do not steal. However, there are small temptations in some places. I just love pens/pencils of all kinds, and at the workplace it is easy to lift someone else's cheap pen. Now, I think very consciously before I act, and either announce, "Okay, I claim this pen, or I simply ask." That really has been my only temptation. In the past I work for a jewelry retailer and sometimes I had hundreds of thousands of dollarsworth of jewelry on my desk. It never occurred to me to even think the thought of taking, and sometimes I am shocked that at my current job people cannot leave person belongings in their desk if they go off to another room for a meeting. I simply love being in a place where people are thoroughly trustworthy.

Sexual misconduct: In an age where "stimulation" is the name of the game, it is easy to see how some people can engage in this. I agree 100% with Mariana, that sexual relationships (all relationships) should be based on mutual respect. I have looked at what most people would call "deviant" sites and found them minimally interesting, in the end totally trite and boring. Beware the Internet, though. Relationships are a dime a dozen, and the security of annonymity makes some unhealthy relationships enticing. For me, loving people pre-supposes respect and honor.

False Speech: That is easy enough, but what about subtle falsehoods and / stealing such as lying about check in time at work, or stealing time in the middle of the day to go shopping or take extended lunch break. This is a way of life on this island where I live, but I avoid that and make sure that my work is done diligently and completely first. Then, I ask for time off.
Question--how do we deal with people who lie to us constantly without appearing self-righteous?

Intoxication: I cannot even tolerate a small amount of alcohol, and if I could, I see no benefit to altering a generally happy, peaceful mind in favor of one clouded by liquor. I think Western society promotes the idea that "buzzed" is better, and I find that ridiculous and harmful.

Thanks for this opportunity to Jay, Mariana, for following up on my "complaint" (smile!) that our forum was thinning. Talk to you soon. Lots of affection to you both.

Cathy

Hello Sangha For Loss,

Hope weight loss is progressing and that all are healthy. Once again, I want to thank Jay and Mariana for sharing their insights with us, and to encourage everyone who is interested in this lifestyle to contribute to the Buddhist forum. I am using the 5 first Precepts that are quoted in Jay's message above in my daily meditation. I have found that meditation brings a certain amount of insight (in the second stage- vipasyana) and that it is useful to "think" a bit about a principle in particular for a short while.

Wishing you all abundant health and success....Cathy

ps...I have almost finished the Lotus Sutra, and would welcome discussion with others who are interested.

Hi all,
I was thinking about this topic and the issue of weight loss and why I feel so 'stuck' at the moment. I think it has to do with mindfulness - I've lost weight before, and either I was in an unusual environment that reduced my habits, or I was very focused on what was going into my body in an almost disordered way. Of course, these states never last and I've always gained the weight back eventually.

I guess what I'm looking for this time is a way to stay myself, to keep my life mostly as-is, but become more mindful about the negative food and body choices I make. Of course that is assuming that even if I do that, my weight problem will somehow be "fixed." I guess I want it all - I want to eat healthfully and mindfully and feel confident about my body. And I'd like to think that's the reason I'm feeling resistance to "just doing the program" whatever it might be, because I know that that is not sustainable.

Do you think that people can ever get to the point where weight maintenance is not a huge effort? I know a lot of folks who say "once you're overweight, you always have to be vigilant" which really doesn't sound like a comfortable life to me. Maybe it's also about control - I have been really working in recent years to learn to let go of things I used to hold onto tightly, and I don't want to have to add one more thing that must be grasped so perfectly.

Sorry for the rambling but perhaps something has struck a chord with one of you. Have a wonderful weekend.

Hello,

This is a nice thread and I have gleaned much information about Buddhism. Despite my name I am not a Buddhist. I have divested myself of my previous belief system (Christianity) and at this point of my life I am grazing all the knowledge that is out there and picking and choosing to follow that which feels right. I get a certain feeling whenever I hit upon a tenet or an idea that speaks as truth. I can't explain it. It just feels like that's been the answer all along.

Some tenets of life that I hold as truth are:
1- Anything is possible
2- What goes around comes around/cause and effect
3- Life must always be in balance. Imbalance promotes disease (of the mind, body, soul)
4- Put unnatural things into your body and you will get unnatural results.

The last one is the result of the extensive research I have been doing on food. Lately food research has become an obsession with me and I feel it's because I'm supposed to do something with it. In America, the food on our shelves is extremely unnatural. Full of chemicals and pesticides. Couple that with the point someone made early in the thread of advertisers promoting desire to consume within a person and you have the reason why America is the fatest nation in the world.

I've managed to overcome much of my poor eating habits. I've replaced a lot of the unnatural foods in my home with natural ones and I shop at the local Whole Foods store almost exclusively now. I eat only when I am truly hungry and I stop when I am full. But I still struggle with urges to consume 1- more than I should and 2- non nutritive foods most especially chocolate. I think on an unconcious level I've practiced the mindfulness techniques. I know that I have those cravings mostly when I am stressed out. But as I am writing this an idea has come to me that I have those cravings also when I think there won't be enough. (Scarcity thinking).

So I'm going to get those books suggested. Hopefully there will be information in them that will help me to overcome completely. Sometimes books are happy to tell you what your problem is but offer no solution to the issue. From reading the thread, however, it seems these books will be helpful.

Thank you all for posting your thoughts, they have truly been helpful.

Ok, here I am back again! I had another insight and wanted to articulate it before it floated away. :bubbles:

A lot of people seem to get motivated to lose weight by being really disgusted by their bodies. I think that some of my resistance has to do with the fact that I don't hate my body, nor do I want to. I'd love to be skinnier, and feel more confident in clothing etc., but I really try to love my body as it is and be kind to myself. My thought has always been that "harm none" is just as much about yourself as it is about other people and the rest of the world.

I used to think of myself in a very Cartesian way, as a mind and a body that just happened to be somehow physically tied to one another. That led me to some real personal difficulties as I attempted to ignore the embodied feelings I had in favor of 'rational' thoughts. Repression is all great if you can keep it up but eventually you will explode and it's not fun. :dizzy:

For someone who was raised in a Protestant tradition, the whole "hate yourself to make yourself anew" thing seems very Calvinist and self-mortifying (sometimes literally). Non-Western religions like Buddhism seem to argue less for this disconnect and it's one reason why they appeal to me.

But again I'd like to have my cake and eat it too :hun: and figure out some way to love myself at any size but still healthfully lose weight and become more fit. Does this make any sense? :stars:

These points absolutely make sense to me!

The first point is also a belief that I hold. I sometimes catch the mental thoughts that are running through my mind and just have to scream "stop"... I would never contemplate saying some of the thoughts that I have in my head to another person. When I catch myself in those moments of mindfulness it really highlights the self loathing cycle with my weight. I feel crap about myself, I am depressed, I eat badly then again I admonish myself. Yes it is like a Cartesian argument.." I hate myself because I am fat.. and I am fat because I hate myself" a circular argument with no end. I am trying very hard to be more compassionate with myself.

This may sound a little extreme, but as aversion therapy I wore a big red rubberband around my left wrist for a weekend. Every time I had a negative thought about myself I flicked it. By the end of the weekend I had a painful red welt. I was shocked at how often I thought negatively about myself.

I have tried the metta bahvana meditation and feel that it holds the key to a permanent better outlook for me. The link that Jay provided to Buddhanet contains information on the exercise if you would like to have a look. I try to give metta to myself..well that is the first part of the meditation. I found it incredibly hard, but was able to do so for others. I am saddened by my inability to think well of myself. So I use this meditation despite finding it a difficult one. I also repeat the mantra in the meditation while doing other tasks around the house. While folding washing, for every article of clothing that I pick up, I repeat " May you be well, may you be happy, may you be free from suffering" and the blessing is directed at whoever owns the garment... I include myself in this. While I say it I try to visualise that person, in a way that makes me radiate love (metta).

I also agree that the way to permanent weight loss is to be content with myself at any weight. After I have lost weight I still don't want to have a seige mentality, well I don't want one now. I don't want to feel as if I in a battle. I should eat well and exercise because it is what honours my body and fuels my mind.

It is so lovely to see people contributing to the thread.

I just wanted to post this verse as well.. it was in a discussion of karma...talking about the powerful nature of our thoughts and how what we think creates our reality, so to tread carefully and be mindful of our thoughts.

The thought manifests as the word;
The word manifests as the deed;
The deed develops into habit;
And habit hardens into character.
So watch the thought and its way with care,
And let it spring from love
Born out of concern for all beings.

I think that ourselves are included in the beings part.

Artemis, I love that verse...it makes so much sense to me. I have ALWAYS thought of myself as fat...even when I wasn't fat. And now I am and it's very hard to reverse the process that brought me to where I am. I suppose that being aware of all this and not just accepting that this is how I am, therefore how I will always be, is going to be what undoes what I have done to my body!

Thank you so much for the moment of insight! I will print that verse out and keep it in many places, so that I can always be aware of that thought!

I love this thread! Sorry I haven't contributed much, but I really don't feel as though I know enough to contribute. However, I am an avid reader here, and will jump in when I can! Thanks for the link to buddhanet, I'm still exploring that site with great interest!

Precept 5
 

Greetings to LKTS and dharmaspell! Welcome! I am so glad to "see" you.

I wanted to discuss precept 5, which is as follows:

5. I undertake to abstain from intoxicating drugs or drink.

I take this to mean a variety of substances, including alcohol and tobacco, and perhaps even caffeine. I believe the intent of this precept is to avoid having the mind altered by such substances--because how can one have awareness in an altered state? Thinking about it further, I also see that carbohydrates and chocolate are also mind-altering drugs. I'm sure you folks know what I mean.

Aside from the alteration of consciousness, these substances also tend to give momentary satisfaction, followed later by the craving for more. So the cycle of samsara continues.

Disliking one's body is such a difficult concept. I have gone through periods when I liked my body, and periods when I did not like it--especially in the last several years as I have watched my weight go up. But I think it's important to realize that there is only so much an individual can do to change his or her body. Our bodies came from our parents, grandparents, and so on. Yes, overeating will add pounds, but many people simply become heavier as they get older. Perhaps this is why people are inclined to say, "Once you are overweight, you must stay constantly vigilant." It's true, but only if you are trying to make your body something it is not.

Of course, I do believe in cause and effect, and so eating more calories than one burns in activity will lead to weight gain. I have proved this many times.

I want to weigh less than I do now, but I am likely not going to ever weigh 130 again, or even 140!

But this is not an excuse for indulgence. Mindfulness of what I eat is my goal, and making good choices.

May you all be well!
Jay

Artemis, a "siege mentality" is a great way to describe it. I have read about metta practices and that does sound very helpful.

Jay, I think you're right. We do have to acknowledge our own physical setpoints etc. As someone who's tall and (honestly) kinda big boned, I've never weighed as little as most people would think of as a healthy range. Even in high school, when I was very active and a great shape, I probably weighed 160-170, which a lot of smaller people would consider huge. If I ever got below 150, I'd probably look like a concentration camp survivor!

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I too enjoy the conversation a great deal.

Quote from Artemis: "I try to give metta to myself..well that is the first part of the meditation. I found it incredibly hard, but was able to do so for others. I am saddened by my inability to think well of myself."

It really saddens me, also, to think that there are women (beautiful like Artemis and all of us) who cannot give to themselves what they give to husbands, children, parents and friends. In my practice, I have counseled some women who have this difficulty. Many of them (myself included) come from the Judeo-Christian culture that emphasizes self-sacrifice and giving even to our enemies. Nothing wrong there. However, this tradition also clearly tells us to, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." How can we do for others if we are not people who love ourselves first, take care of ourselves, etc.? We mistakenly think that self-effacing martyrdom (or some subtle form of it) is the path prescribed by the greatest Teachers. Not so!

And certainly not so in the Buddhist faith. The "Middle Way," is more than a casual reference to "moderation." It involves accepting ourselves as we are, and pursuing the Eightfold Path accordingly. If we are fat, skinny, rich, poor, serious, tense, funny, relaxed...whatever. Truly, the Greater Vehicle (Mahayana) teaches that it is not the aescetic or hermit only who achieves buddhahood. Nun, monk, layman and laywoman: we all can strive for this. But only if we accept ourselves as we are.

There is something unhealthy, unholy, and wrong with the attitude of a person who has the need to always appear to be giving to others, while putting her own needs second. I do believe that people like that are selfish in another way, in that they crave approval from society. After all, who can find fault with the woman who cares slavishly for her family, while rarely taking the time to care for, much less pamper, herself? This, of course, is not a reference to anyone writing here.

A lightbulb went off in my head when I was speaking to a social worker/Catholic nun who quoted Jesus of Nazareth, saying, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." In coming to that profound understanding I reached a milestone only after much suffering in the name of, "...I love my neighbor and put him / her ahead of me." It has changed my life. Am I selfish? Am I vain? Am I centered on me, me, me? I seriously doubt it.

For those of us trying to lose unhealthy excess weight, let us be mindful that we need not hate our bodies as they are. We can look at it from the positive light that this weight is here temporarily and we will work towards a healthier end.

Jay, you provided me with a good reality check in your last writing. I would sure love to be the svelte 125 lbs. I was 20 years ago. Forget it! If I can get to 140, I am a winner. Henceforth, I will re-evaluate my long term goals and adjust the short term goals realistically.

Please let me re-iterate: There is nothing grand about not loving yourself. You can do mych grander things for yourself and others if you do, in fact, LOVE YOURSELF.

OneLove....Cathy

I just wanted to share with each of you how wonderful it was to follow your conversation on this thread! I have a tremendous amount of respect for Buddhist wisdom, and I've been gravitating more and more toward it over the past year or so.

Here's something I posted on another thread this afternoon and :

"I am coming to feel the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than the people of good will....We must use time creatively, and forever realize that the time is always ripe to do right."

That's from Dr. King's Letter from a Birmingham Jail. It's about something much loftier than my weigh-loss goals, but I was struck by how appropriate it is for all actions, large and small--and very much in the Buddhist spirit, from a man who was raised to be a traditional Baptist but grew to become a true universalist.

Warm wishes to each of you!

judy

Oh, thank you, Judy! That is so wonderful!

Jay

Judy,
A wonderful quote and unfortunately it does seem to be true. Let us all of good will remember not to beat ourselves up and instead go forward confidently into the world! :)

Hello and Good Wishes to All,

Has anyone found a good definition of "Karma?' that you are willing to share to open a discussion of this topic? Some folks do not see the immediate effects of their actions. For example, I never expected to gain 80 extra pounds over the two year period that I was eating in restaurants twice everyday. Sure, I knew I was gaining, but what a total shock to get on the scale and find that my weight was at the place where it is right now! But, in looking at the concept of karma, it makes all the sense in the world. The end is the direct result of my actions.

I read about a more subtle form of karma once in the story of a young man who steals and does not get caught. Has he escaped his karma? While he may have no intention of stealing again, the very fact of doing it plants a seed in his mind that may make him inclined to steal again. This in itself is bad karma, a kind of change in the personality for the worse.

Likewise, we may never have intended to put on all this weight, with a little dessert here, an extra helping of bread there. Then, months later, the reality is upon us: excess weight, love handles, bulging bellies and more.

I think the important thing is for us to think mindfully of what we put into our precious human bodies and to acknowledge that karma is a fact of life, manifested in such things as extra pounds and more. More importantly, we can acknowledge that good karma will be accrued when we take the step to curb our cravings and eat in a way that promotes weight loss and optimum health. We WILL lose that weight.

Thanks for listening! OneLove....Cathy

Karma is an interesting topic....

I see parallels with my weight that you discussed Cathy. My thoughts have indeed hardened into a habit when it comes to my eating. I feel that now every time I make a positive step, no matter how small it will translate into me breaking that habit eventually.

I look at karma is being a boomerag effect on my emotions and behaviours. What I give out - I receive back. I am very conscious of this especially being a mamma. I see my moods and emotions have a ripple on effect with my daughter. This is one of my biggest motivations to be healthier.

I will think more on this topic and write later. I am suffering from monkey mind this morning :)

About Karma
 

I know only a little, but here are some thoughts.

Karma is the collective results of past actions, not just in this immediate incarnation but through past incarnations as well. Sometimes we can see karma's rise and fall in the present--e.g., raindancer's example--but sometimes we cannot understand it. Being overweight in this life may have origins many lifetimes ago.

I think it is very important to understand that "bad karma" does not mean "sin." When Westerners were first attempting to translate Buddhist texts, many terms were used that are not accurate representations of the ideas. These Western translators came from Judeo-Christian backgrounds, and so they tried to put the Buddhist concepts into words they understood, even if they were wrong in their interpretation.

Sin refers to breaking a law of God. One must then atone for or repent of one's sins in order to be "saved," "forgiven," or "redeemed." Buddhism doesn't work that way. There is no creator god who is going to save, forgive, or redeem anyone. There is only the chain of cause and effect which extends from "time beyond mind."

Karma is cause and effect brought about in this realm, termed samsara. There is both good karma and bad karma. Or, more precisely, there is the ripening of karma from past actions. Ripening of karma means manifestion of circumstances in the present. By doing "good deeds" (e.g., following the 10 precepts), we can ripen our good karma and "cancel out" bad karma. What goes around comes around.

One of my friends who follows a Hindu-based path pointed out to me that to be free of samasara (the current realm of illusion in which we are living) one must be free of attachment to ALL karma--that is, not attached to either good karma or bad karma. The idea is not to become a "saint" who only has good karma.

Living as we do, we can never avoid acts that bring about karma. We must eat, for example. And every step we take may kill some form of sentient being--ant, worm, and so forth.

So, that is part of my understanding of karma.

Certainly the cause and effect nature of the world is very apparent in issue of weight gain and loss!

Namaste,
Jay

Hi Ladies,

I agree that bad karma is not the same as "sin." There is a similarity from what I have read, though. In order to expiate negative karma that one is aware of, one should: 1. again, be aware in a profound way of the cause of this negative karma, 2. be truly remorseful to have created something negative, 3. actively do something to make amends for the past action.

One of the things I love most about this Path is that we are enjoined to act. Thus, it is not enough to "pray" and expect that some-One will take our prayers and do something...like a so-called Higher Being who takes our request and manifests our good wishes. A buddhist "prayer" is an intention steeped in an action. Thus, if I pray for my child to get over some problem she is having, I feel responsible to actively do something to find a solution. Likewise, expiating one's karma is more that sitting in the confessional box and making verbal contrition. One makes amends.

I am also aware that collective karma is accrued over many lifetimes. I wonder (jokingly) if these extra pounds are the result of something I did millenia ago? Goodgrief! Jay, do I have to live several lifetimes to get slim? (smile). Sincerely, I am working on the very known past causes of this weight and working hard to improve my habits. If only I had had a glimpse 2 years ago of what this "karma" sitting on my thighs would look like!

In all seriousness, karma has profound implications for everything we think and do in this lifetime. Being more mindful that there are no real coincidences in life will make us more deliberate in all that we do. To drive the point home relative to eating badly, I have tried to sit in brief moments of awareness before I eat and develop an image of myself eating properly (cause) and developing a healthier physical self (effect, karma). Not at all as easy as it sounds when aromas from the dinner table are assaulting the senses!

Best of luck to all in continuing our effort at weight loss. Any successes out there lately?

Cathy

It has been awhile since anyone posted.. how is everyone doing?

I have little to add... my attention has been devoted to family matters lately. Will try and get some time later to think of a topic.

Take care...

Marianna

Greetings, Buddhist friends and interested others!

I haven't had much time to post, either, because of work demands. I have been mindful of my food intake the last week, but I don't know if I have had any weight change. I can be mindful regardless!

My new strategy when eating out at restaurants is to eat only half of what I'm served and take the rest home. (Or even not take it home!) It works quite well--I find I'm satisfied after only half anyway, and eating the rest is just wanting to have the taste again.

Oh, and I don't have desserts at all, of course.

Be well!

Jay

Hi all, my name is Hope and I've been reading these posts the last couple of days and they really resound in me! I think there is such a strong connection between our mind/thoughts (which become actions) and the things we do to our bodies. I try to remind myself when I can the same things you all have been discussing...that food can't fill the "void", that thoughts become actions become habits, and lately I've been trying to get to the root of my desire for weight loss. Part of me sees that it is somewhat coming from vanity and a desire to have positive reinforcement from others to make my self esteem go up. I struggle with that in many ways in my life! I need to find the balance between valuing people and my relationships vs needing their approval to find approval for myself. Big struggle! I think that is true for many women...it's a tough one.

So, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the physiological results of our thoughts and attitude. I heard someone say today that if we are downcast on ourselves and picture ourselves in a certain way (ie: the fat girl), that our body reacts to that and there is a chemical reaction. More scientific than buddist, I know,but the mind body connection is what is interesting to me.

Thank you for all your posts and your thoughts, they are worth reading and provide meditations for more people than you know! I hope to hear more and speak more with you all.

Hope

i personally don't agree with leaving food unless of course its brussel sprouts which are just nasty. we live in an abundant society where food is plentifull and have wine lakes butter mountains and flood world markets with grain and fruit. yet hundreds of millions of people don't get 3 square meals a day and for us to leave food (taking it away is good) is a slap in the face to the starving/subsistance persons of the world.

Hello again, Slimmingsi,

If I could give the extra food to those who need it, I would do so. But it is better for me to leave it than to eat it. Where I live restaurants give huge portions. Usually I take leftovers with me and have another meal later. I have a friend who takes the food she doesn't want with her and gives it to the first homeless person she finds on the street--she lives in a large city.

Countless beings besides humans eat the food we leave. Nothing is really "wasted," although I agree that Western society is indeed awash in abundance that could be better distributed to those in need.

Hello, Hope, and welcome! Nice to "see" you!

Jay

Hello to All,

Wishing you all to be well and achieving your weight goals.

Glad to hear from you, Hope, as you struck a chord in me regarding why people want to lose. It is only in the past 2 years that I have put on so much weight; I have always been slim, even after 2 babies. So, why do we want to lose? If you stick with this site, 3 Fat Chicks, and with the Buddhist support group, you will find that more people are interested in health than in looks, or reinforcement from others. Especially after a woman reaches a certain age (35, 40, 50?), we come to realize that we are sacrificing health and long life by being obese, or even just a bit overweight. Sure, I would love to fit into my sexy tight jeans and have my man admire me more. And I would love to hear the compliments from my colleagues and girlfriends about how much better I look. But the essential thing for me is to regain my health--better strength in my back, tighter abdominals to support my mid-body, better breathing, and more energy. And all of this comes back to an issue we have discussed recently which is self-love. If I care enough about myself and take care of myself, I can do so much more for others.

It is worth observing...what reason do you have for losing weight. You will find that different things motivate different people. But if improved health is one consideration, you are on the right path. Good luck to Hope and all our other friends.

OneLove...Cathy

The world produces more than enough food to feed the hungry and poor. Unfortunately the world suffers from a justice and compassion crisis, rather than a shortage of food.

But I do really sympathise with the sentiment! When I was in Cambodia last year I was just shocked at how wasteful and glutonous western society is..

I think that leaving food on your plate and not overconsuming food is a good thing. It stops us from buying into this mental cycle that we have that more is better... to be able to stop when we have had enough is a good thing.

There are also other strategies to try - only ordering entre sized mains, sharing meals and requesting smaller portions, all can help us when we are eating out at restaurants.

hope everyone is well,
Marianna

Ok, here's one out of left field - are there resources out there for a Buddhist approach to dealing with death and grief? My grandmother died unexpectedly last week, and I'm very tempted to comfort myself with food. Aside from general mindfulness and keeping up with meditation etc., does anyone have any suggestions? I must admit I found it a little jarring to go to the services and have everyone express joy that she was a Christian and saved, when I did not believe in the same thing.