I do go to church and really like the one we're at now, but that hasn't always been the case. In my opinion, what's wrong with most churches is that the leadership doesn't really believe that what the Bible says is the complete and total truth. If the pastor &/or other leadership aren't true believers, no one will hear the gospel and there will be problems. I was a member of a church with a believing pastor (he married us), but the church's committee members got tired of hearing the gospel preached, so they voted to ask him to transfer and we ended up with someone who was just looking for extra retirement income and had no idea what the gospel actually said or meant. We left that church after being members for several years, so we could find a church that would actually help us learn and keep growing. When the leadership doesn't believe, no one in the church will be learning or growing and the membership will really be no different than the rest of the world around them.

I have been to Crystal Cathedral a few times for the Easter and Christmas shows as I mentioned but I have not seen the Hour Of Power for years and years. Most of my information comes from the Faith and Values section of our local paper. That is where I have been reading about the change back to dad Schuller and now the daughter seems to be running things. The church is about 50 miles from me and I pass by it often.

I have seen interviews with Joel Osteen but have never seen his show either.

I do know some TV evangelists sure give (and not speaking of the above) the Christian faith a black eye :(

Since I go to church on a very regular basis I don't watch it on TV much but I do thank God for the vessel that many can learn and grow from His Word. I think as long as we use our heads and hearts and Bibles as we watch...God will show us the Way :)

All churches are different. Some have volunteer pastors...some congregations provide housing and the pastor/minister needs to work elsewhere too. Our Pastor has a full time job with our church. We give him a check each week and he pays taxes and provides for his own housing, food, etc just as we do. There is no right or wrong...all of us worship in different situations.

If your leadership doesn't believe the Bible then run...run as fast as you can to another church!

AZULFIRE, No matter the direction "a church" is going...we can move with the Power Of the Holy Spirit and spread the message individually. God has placed us in the world to do what He asks us to and that is to "make disciples of all nations"

I think AZULFIRE makes an awesome statement here....but I...and only speaking for me...I feel that our relationship with Christ is a personal one. We each need to do what we feel He asks of us...we are all of one body...but separate parts of the Body Of Christ.

Just as I feel one person can sour many in a church....I feel one person can turn that church around with their love of our Lord :)

In Christ ~ Gary

Hi,
I always called myself a christian. But,w/in the last year I find myself growing more in Christ. And developing a deeper relationship w/him. I know it is there. However,I do not go to church.I know it is wrong not to go. Why am I not going?I don't know if it's just laziness or not finding the church that is right for me.If someone could give me some suggestions,that would be great.I live in a small town,so there are not alot of options.The church I was going to ,just didn't do it for me.However,someone told me ,you don't go to church to get something out of it,you go to honor God.Which makes sense I guess.I do pray and talk to God. But,it is in the back of my mind I should be doing more.

Originally Posted by Tracy:
Hi,
I always called myself a christian. But,w/in the last year I find myself growing more in Christ. And developing a deeper relationship w/him. I know it is there. However,I do not go to church.I know it is wrong not to go. Why am I not going?I don't know if it's just laziness or not finding the church that is right for me.If someone could give me some suggestions,that would be great.I live in a small town,so there are not alot of options.The church I was going to ,just didn't do it for me.However,someone told me ,you don't go to church to get something out of it,you go to honor God.Which makes sense I guess.I do pray and talk to God. But,it is in the back of my mind I should be doing more.

Tracy, hi. :) If your heart is telling you to do more, then you need too. Don't be so afraid of metting people and a different church-it will feel strange, kind off like, "Who are these people?" But, we'll always have to face uncomfortable situations in life, what matters is not the church or religion, but the feeling of God around you and inside your soul.

We all just need to find God, and see who he really is. And fallow is love and glory. But, like you said, honnoring-I think you can't honnor him if your not in a church you feel relaxed in and like, one that doesn't seem fake and dishonest. You can honnor God anytime, no matter were you are. What's importent is reseaving his messages. ...and to me honnoring? To me honnoring him is loving him. Knowing him. Wanting to do his will, and help this world. Wanting to bring love and joy and understanding into peoples lifes, and to grow wise in his ways. That's honnoring. Loving him, when your unsure of God and don't feel like you know him...can you say you know him. Faith and asking him to simply come into your life, is the start of understanding of chance.

Sometimes we disagree with the church and wounder why does this seem wrong to me? Just look for the right church, ones that seem full of love. You don't have to go to church to get closer to God, but if you go to the right one for you, it will bring you to him. Ask him for guidence, to help derect you in what your suppose to do. Some people are so blind...they don't really know what it is to feel him, or his love. If you feel alone and missing, then our lifes will never be right or complete. God isn't some icon of power...I think people have been blinded by the misleading, we all need to have open hearts to him, so we can feel him as he is, and not as we think he is.

I go to Central Christian Church. I really like it. It's a very up beat church that's really modern, with Chirstian rock music and really good songs and the paster takes things from the bible and each week has a theme about life. And what everyone one is going threw. God's truth of his love, just settles over everyone and you can just feel the peace in all of our hearts there, leveryone looks calm and happy. You need a church that doesn't yell religion in your face and scorns you(that's not were God is), but one that 'speeks' with care and derectly to your heart, no matter the people sitting around you. This is you and him. You feel loved and safe there...I think that's what everyone is thursting for. A church that heals you. This one does. I think it has a website too.
Don't be afraid to check it out, it's really cool. I can't post it becuase it says I have to have 25 posts. *scuffs*

Sorry for the lecture. :(

Check if there's one near you. I deeply encourage anyone who is serching for a church to check out Central's like broke cast online.

I don't always agree with what churches say or do, I am really strongly apposted to seeing so much bull and misleading things in religions that has nothing to do truth and purity of mind, body, and soul. but I like mine. I'm a very spiritiual person more then anything, and am still walking down my own journey to God and his plan for me.

Oh and Tracy, I know you'll find that deeper connection. :) Just keep your heart and mind open, and push out all the things that we have come to believe is God..and let him show you himself.
...Just ask him to come into your heart...for him to show you, and he will anwser you, in a way you'll know it's him. He works in misterious ways.
One of the problems we face today is that when were not open to him, we miss his wispers...and never think he answers us, or is there.

God bless.

(sorry for all the writing, I got into it.)

And all God wants...is to show you how much he deeply loves you. <3 He wants to shed his light apon you. To express your safe and loved. And that he knows you more then anyone. All your thoughts, wishes and dreams. That he's always there, and loves you unconditionally. We are his children.

As I read some of these responses, I can't help but feel that we should be focusing more on WHAT'S RIGHT WITH CHURCHES and HOW CAN WE FIND ONE THAT'S RIGHT FOR US?

I read the bible every day, and I have never found any verse that says that NOT going to church is 'WRONG' per se, but we are encourgaged to "gather together with other believers" for OUR benefit. And, I've never read that going to church is solely for 'honoring GOD', but it is does say or refer to this -- a temple or church is supposed to be ...

1 -- a HOUSE OF PRAYER
2 -- a place of gathering for believers
3 -- a place of edification (specifically for believers)
4 -- a place to share the gospel
5 -- a place to study the scriptures
6 -- a place to learn how to live in a GODLY manner
7 -- a place of praise and worship (with word, song, and music)

Now, as GARY and others say and believe, we know that we can do all the above anywhere -- in a church building, or a home, or a subway, or a barn (we have one minister who turned his barn into a kind of church here), or a theater, or a school, or an empty storage building, a borrowed church, OR even as Jesus did, out in the open, like on a beach or a park ...

I find it interesting that JESUS taught and preached in the outdoors, and in natural settings more than anywhere else that we know, even the temples; and that was free, but this fact is not often mentioned by those who want us to go to their churches ... lol!

Mostly, I think that it would be lovely to be able to find a place where you can make Christian friends, pray and praise and worship together, learn together, socialize & play together, get counselling & encouragement, and other Christian supports ... I mean, the church could be much more than they often are.

I have to agree with the observation that churches are only as good as the minister and/or leaders that are running them, becuz they can either make a church or break it. I find some people aren't even listening half the time to what is being preached; and I am sometimes aghast at what I hear and see in some places.

In the end, I think that you should pray about it, then go and try out every church in your town or area a few times each. In the meanwhile, get lots of Christian teaching whenever or wherever you can thru a multitude of sources, and go to a church of your personal choice and preference where you and your family members all feel comfortable and welcome ...

ROSEBUD ~ I had hoped my "what's wrong with churches?" would be taken 2 ways....

"What's wrong with churches" :shrug: (Nothing.....)

"What's wrong with churches?" :nono: (oh let me tell you....)

I think most church goers can tell you stories on both sides of course.

I think most of us agree here so far that one does not have to be in a church to have a relationship with our Lord.

God tells us that we grow closer to Him in His Word. Now, I know that many people study the Word on their own....many in groups. I think one benefit we receive by hearing the Word in church is sometimes the pastor brings it to you in a way we may not have seen before.

We never know where God is going to "touch" us....I can't tell you how many times that sermon was "just for me" at the right time.

Many times I hustle into church and right on out again...like tonight...we were heading for Mexican food for dinner! But on the way out I ran into a guy that I haven't seen in a while, we talked college football for a few minutes and as we parted ways in the parking lot he hollered back to us..."it sure is good to see you both"

Another thing I like going to church for is to keep up with people on our prayer list. I have been going for many years, I have seen many pass on and have seen many new births of course.

Tonight I spent a few minutes talking with a member that runs our local Little League....years ago his dad ran the one I was in. There was a fire in the storage shed at the field...burned about 5 thousand worth of equipment. I grew up in that neighborhood....our talk brought up memories from the past.

I am fortunate that our church has a Saturday night service too. We went tonight since I worked today.....missing a walk with my "girls"....off to the beach in the morning for a 3 mile walk and spinach croissants at the beach cafe ;)

TRACY....I hope you find a "home" :)

SNOWWOLF....I don't think anyone would feel lectured by your thoughts...thanks :)

Later ~ Gary

Justwant2Bhealthy, that would be so awseome, to have mass outside. Someone needs to get that started, if I ever become a pasture I'd do it outdoors, nature ties into everything about...the world.

And thank you, EZMONEY. :)

oh, and on another note: It's not about finding a church for you...it's about finding God in one. (why waste your energy focusing on why churches are bad...just keep moving on-keep looking for any good one, it's not going to benifit us feeling cheated...I've learned.)

There is so much more that he is wanting from us then just reading the bible or going to church... sometimes...he wants us to take our minds off of phisically going...phisically looking for him...for his word...hearing the words of a pasture isn't enough. We do need these things. But I honestly think we're missing the simpliest ways to hear him, to worship... it's up to us to understand how.

Sorry, I keep feeling like, there is something needing to be said. :?: But I don't know how. I tried. Hope, someone can get something from what I'm trying to get across.

Wierd question. Can anyone say they feel his love?

Thanks Everyone,
I do appreciate your suggestions.I know if I pray about it more I will I will be led in the right direction-Thanks snowolf:)

You are so right SNOW WOLF :) God does want more from us than reading the Bible and going to church. You are a smart kiddo!

We can find God in the outdoors....away from people....away from Pastors and video screens. He is there...we can see His works and feel His nature that He created for us. We have had some church services outside for special reasons...very cool.

God also sends us into the world...we are not of this world but we are in it...created in it by Him. By going to church we are able to share with each other.....share our comforting visits with the elderly...volunteer at VBS, Youth Groups and Sunday School classes...encouraging younger members. We learn of wonderful things members are doing in the ministry....we see the results of our $$$ in mission work. So much more. We would not be able to do these things if we went off by ourselves.

I think we all know what you are trying to say...I think you are looking for one word...BALANCE :)

And yes....I can feel God's Love....

I feel it when I hold my wife....when my daughter or son tells me they love me at the end of our daily phone conversations...in their "hold me daddy's" when they were young....when my nephew called today to "share" his NOT getting a ticket ;)....and to tell me he got the "let's just be friends" call from his girl...I felt God's love in giving support.

I saw God's love today in the ocean waves...the warmth of the sun...the wagging tails on my golden retrievers as we walked down the beach.

I smelled God's love in the ocean air....the smells of the breakfasts being cooked in the motor homes parked at the beach.

We can feel God's love always....because it is always there...sometimes in our hardships we feel it isn't there...but that is what we are feeling...sometimes are feelings are not the TRUTH.

In Christ ~ Gary

Snow-Wolf ~ yes, yes, yes, I think you hit the nail on the head really -- that is it ... GOD'S LOVE is missing in some churches, OR more importantly, you can find GOD'S LOVE in some churches more than others ...

Yes, I find it much easier to find GOD'S LOVE in many other places than in some churches: outdoors; in nature; in my furry boy's face and his loving ways towards us (I really think our pets are one of GOD's greatest sources of HIS LOVE); in the night skies; the stars; the happy face man on the moon; real love in some families, like the real LOVE I felt from my Grammies ...

EZ ~ I so admire the great kind of love that you have in your family; but I'm afraid that isn't the way it is for too many of us. Both my DH and I come from families that it's hard to find love in -- there is more criticism, and greed, and selfishness, and jealousy, and competition than love. Now, some members are loving, but others you want to run from becuz they are so critical and negative of us. They say hurtful things to us and behind our backs and it is so hard for us to deal with.

So I cling to the love I have found in GOD and JESUS: becuz without it, I think I would have died long ago. It is and has been GOD'S LOVE that keeps me going each day; it is GOD'S LOVE that gives me HOPE; it is GOD'S LOVE that carries me; it is GOD'S LOVE that heals me; it is GOD'S LOVE that holds me up; it is GOD'S LOVE that comforts me; and it is GOD'S LOVE that leads me on! Yes, I even think GOD'S LOVE is what I live for!

This may be GOD'S doing, but as time goes on; I am learning to lean on HIM more and more, and less on those around me for that love. We all need love; but to me, GOD'S LOVE is the most pure love that exists. Just like PAUL says in his list of what love is and isn't, GOD'S LOVE is different: GOD's love doesn't disappoint, GOD's love doesn't criticize, GOD's love cares, GOD's love listens, GOD's love is reliable, GOD's love doesn't put land and things before his children ... in GOD's love, we come first ...

That is why GOD is my true Father and my real Abba dad; and Jesus is my true brother and my real friend ... they are my best friends. Yes, they come before my earthy partner and my boy, NIKO sure comes in there too, becuz he is so loving and kind ...

It is GOD'S LOVE that I was looking for many years ago when I searched and found him; and I guess that is why I am still having trouble finding that LOVE in some of the churches I have been to here. If you cut me up becuz I'm fat, how is that showing me GOD'S LOVE? If you put down my spouse and say mean things, how is that loving?

I think that is what's missing or wrong with some churches -- they lack GOD'S LOVE ...

Thank you, Snow Wolf! :hug:

You have found the unconditional love ROSEBUD...as we both know.

That only comes from ONE source!

There is a lot of love in my family....and...there has been a lot of hurt too. Going to church and learning to walk a little more Christ-like each and every day has helped me to help mend issues my family has had. As in all families...all is not peaches and cream!

If one is looking for a church where everyone is showing God's love perfectly then I wanna go there! Our church has had it's nastiness too...we are full of sinners over there!

The ticket for me is to look past that and keep focus on THE WORD and not the human...

I am really enjoying our chats here!

He has blessed you...other's have hurt you...that is not His way...He has worked things together for good in you.

In His Love ~ Gary

Originally Posted by :
He has worked things together for good in you.

Yes, I agree about that. I think the negative (bad) experiences we go through helps to create the positive (good) in us. So I am constantly examining myself to see if I am critical; and I think this has made me much more sensitive to other people's feelings in my life.


Conversely, sometimes people tend to idealize others: like some people think that my DH is perfect (esp other women becuz that is what they want to believe), but the truth is that he is just as flawed as any other man, but I don't go around exposing his shortcomings to everyone I meet, simply becuz it isn't any of their business anyways. ;)

Now, my weight is a very noticeable flaw and people make comments about it; and that makes me feel bad for him sometimes, but he says, when they put me down, they forget that they are putting him down too; and I said the same goes for me. When my father criticizes my spouse, he is indirectly doing the same to me, becuz I chose him (even though at the time, I may not have known all his faults).

Now, I don't think I am responsible for my DH's imperfections and I shouldn't be, just as he shouldn't have to be for mine -- but we just hope in GOD'S grace that we are FORGIVEN for those shortcomings. Not everyone agrees in this life by what standard we judge or discern by. For example, I don't judge people by what they look like or how much money they have or where they live, but too many people do.

Yes, we have dreams like everybody else, and we are doing the best we can, with what we have; and to rise above the limitations that we were dealt with in this life; but I think that we are doing great -- considering we aren't getting any help from anyone, except GOD (mind you, that made me laugh, becuz who else bigger could you have on your side). It's strange to me that some don't realize or appreciate the daily obstacles that my DH and I have overcome to achieve what we have so far.

My earthly father cannot seem to stop talking to us kids like we are under 10 years old. I am having trouble ignoring it, as we find it so insulting. I am 50 years old and my Dad talks to me like I'm 5 -- and my DH is 62 years old and gonna be collecting his old age pension soon, and my Dad talks to him like he's only 6 and doesn't know anything ... :?:

Now I remember telling someone recently; that I am firm believer from my experience, that to children our parents will always be parents (and not the friends that we'd hoped for, once we became adults) simply becuz some of our parents can't stop seeing us and treating us as little children!

GEE, I just realized that I got way off topic in this post, but maybe it is indirectly related. Maybe if I can get a handle on this, then I can look at those in churches that confuse me or hurt me or whatever, with less dismay, and somehow learn to ignore them, so I can go to church and enjoy myself once again ... So, how do I do that, GARY? :shrug:

Cuz one of two things can happen: either you become very critical of others too (which I now abhor), or you end up living like the 'walking wounded', which isn't a fun or pleasant way to live either.

I know that I prayed about this a lot; and I felt impressed with this answer -- that GOD wanted me to realize that HE can use imperfect people too, even if they were making very noticeable mistakes; and that in our weakness, HE becomes stronger. In other words, even if a minister is flawed, and makes some gross errors, GOD can still use him to do HIS work, and he will still reach those that GOD wants him to at the time. This helped give me a different perspective, I must say.

However, I think that I need more grease in my feathers, so that the personal insults can run off me, like water off a duck's back ... :lol:

Presently, I am trying to focus on FORGIVENESS, but sometimes, it's very, very hard; especially at the time. I just keep praying, 'Lord, help me forgive them like you do, OR please forgive them for me'; and then please heal and bind my hurt so that I can move on and be an overcomer in this life.

Sorry, for rambling ... :D

Originally Posted by Justwant2Bhealthy:
Yes, I agree about that. I think the negative (bad) experiences we go through helps to create the positive (good) in us. So I am constantly examining myself to see if I am critical; and I think this has made me much more sensitive to other people's feelings in my life.

It is difficult to look at ourselves sometimes Rosebud...we all want to be the "right" one!


Conversely, sometimes people tend to idealize others: like some people think that my DH is perfect (esp other women becuz that is what they want to believe), but the truth is that he is just as flawed as any other man, but I don't go around exposing his shortcomings to everyone I meet, simply becuz it isn't any of their business anyways. ;)

We are all flawed...I find the more I look at ANGIE as the "PERFECT WIFE"...as in Perfect for me :)...the more beauty I see in her over the things she does/doesn't do that upset me...or used to!

Now, my weight is a very noticeable flaw and people make comments about it; and that makes me feel bad for him sometimes, but he says, when they put me down, they forget that they are putting him down too; and I said the same goes for me. When my father criticizes my spouse, he is indirectly doing the same to me, becuz I chose him (even though at the time, I may not have known all his faults).

Most people look at "people" that aren't like them as being...odd...some tease and are mean...others walk/run away...but SOME don't...SOME have matured...SOME have experienced the same issues...If a father criticizes to be mean...well he is mean...his problem not yours! Not saying it doesn't hurt :hug:

Now, I don't think I am responsible for my DH's imperfections and I shouldn't be, just as he shouldn't have to be for mine -- but we just hope in GOD'S grace that we are FORGIVEN for those shortcomings. Not everyone agrees in this life by what standard we judge or discern by. For example, I don't judge people by what they look like or how much money they have or where they live, but too many people do.

We are forgiven for our weakness!

Yes, we have dreams like everybody else, and we are doing the best we can, with what we have; and to rise above the limitations that we were dealt with in this life; but I think that we are doing great -- considering we aren't getting any help from anyone, except GOD (mind you, that made me laugh, becuz who else bigger could you have on your side). It's strange to me that some don't realize or appreciate the daily obstacles that my DH and I have overcome to achieve what we have so far.

Life does come easier for some than others...but that does not take away from the life God has planned for you! Human nature tells us to want-want-want what the other guy has. Been God, in His infinite wisdom knows that that is not the life for us! Our life does not end here on this earth!

My earthly father cannot seem to stop talking to us kids like we are under 10 years old. I am having trouble ignoring it, as we find it so insulting. I am 50 years old and my Dad talks to me like I'm 5 -- and my DH is 62 years old and gonna be collecting his old age pension soon, and my Dad talks to him like he's only 6 and doesn't know anything ... :?:

Some dads seem to not allow their kids to grow up...if it is disrespect then...well it is...it is sad...but again..it is his problem and sad that his problem hurts you and dh.

Now I remember telling someone recently; that I am firm believer from my experience, that to children our parents will always be parents (and not the friends that we'd hoped for, once we became adults) simply becuz some of our parents can't stop seeing us and treating us as little children!

GEE, I just realized that I got way off topic in this post, but maybe it is indirectly related. Maybe if I can get a handle on this, then I can look at those in churches that confuse me or hurt me or whatever, with less dismay, and somehow learn to ignore them, so I can go to church and enjoy myself once again ... So, how do I do that, GARY? :shrug:

Don't make the answer too difficult dear! The answer is you GO! What happened in the past is...well...the past. Don't allow the past to take the glory God has for you in your future!

Cuz one of two things can happen: either you become very critical of others too (which I now abhor), or you end up living like the 'walking wounded', which isn't a fun or pleasant way to live either.

I love my sister dearly...but she can be the most negative (besides my brother) person I know! She even said...I don't like Angie...when we started dating...now, she had only met her one time...NOW...I have a choice to make...quit dating my future wife and make my sister happy OR do the right thing and keep dating this women I adored AND "forget" what my sister said and move on like nothing happened. You know what I did. My sister has a lot of criticism in her...I have seen it is mostly for people that have MORE than her...she also has a lot of love in her too!

I know that I prayed about this a lot; and I felt impressed with this answer -- that GOD wanted me to realize that HE can use imperfect people too, even if they were making very noticeable mistakes; and that in our weakness, HE becomes stronger. In other words, even if a minister is flawed, and makes some gross errors, GOD can still use him to do HIS work, and he will still reach those that GOD wants him to at the time. This helped give me a different perspective, I must say.

Most, if not all of the Bible heroes were flawed!

However, I think that I need more grease in my feathers, so that the personal insults can run off me, like water off a duck's back ... :lol:

Sticks and stones...and words do hurt us!

Presently, I am trying to focus on FORGIVENESS, but sometimes, it's very, very hard; especially at the time. I just keep praying, 'Lord, help me forgive them like you do, OR please forgive them for me'; and then please heal and bind my hurt so that I can move on and be an overcomer in this life.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean the feelings go away or that they are not accountable for their actions dear. Don't allow people to keep hurting you without throwing a punch in a time or two ;)

Sorry, for rambling ... :D

RAMBLE ON!

Originally Posted by SnowWolf:
....

EZMONEY, wow, you have so much love inside your heart.

EZMONEY...I think the word I was looking for...isn't really balance. ...I was trying to find a way to express...the things you all need to grasp...see..be...and ...feel... I think the word closest to those feelings...is inlightenment. ...to be inlightened by God... I want you all to have that haze, that layer of fuzziness of darkness...of emptiness...of heartack...of yearning...of failure...of anger... stripped away from your eyes.

So you all can finally ..... see.

To accually...open your eyes. And see the clearity...of truth.

I am not sure what you mean here KIDDO...I have no haze or layer of darkness....emptiness or heartache...no yearning of what the TRUTH is. I do have failure....I do have anger....but these emotions and actions do not take away the truth of Jesus Christ and what HE has done.

:hug: For that geometry class....I struggled in it in 10th grade!