Sorry did quick response and now I am not subscribed....

Hockeychick- If you are lifting after dinner, you still need to get protein and carbs into your system after lifting. If you don't, you have nothing to repair the broken down muscle tissue. At the very least, have a shake with a scoop of protein powder and some fruit. The fruit is a fast acting carb because of the fructose.

Hockeychic, I have that pill... just send your check for $19.99 to this address.....

Seriously, Meliris has some good suggestions. I am not American so I can't comment on all of those protein shakes etc, we just don't do them so much over here. But from a nutrition point of view a glass of watered down fresh OJ would be a good thing to start with.

Watering it down enables it to be transported across the gut lining and into the bloodstream more quickly, and makes it less acidic and therefore less likely to upset your digestive/urinary systems.

I just can't do chewing if I have been awake less than 2 hours, so I drink my first breakfast, workout then eat a second breakfast. This adds 150kcals to my daily total and ensures I get at least 3 of my 5+ fruit and veg for the day!

Breakfast 1: A fruit only smoothie. Blend a handful of frozen fruits with apple juice and drink!

Breakfast 2: Branflakes and milk, dried fruit and nuts. OR wholemeal bread and jam (preserve?) and coffee

Breakfast 1 only has to serve for the workout, number 2 has to sustain me until lunch, hence the slower less refined carbs.

As for your meds, I am pretty sure that you can drink juice at the same time, it is just solid food type food that you can't - this is to allow the meds to hit your bloodstream effectively. Check it with your specialist, ask if watered down juice and some exercise would slow down or impair your med take up!

Thanks for that info., Meliris & Stef. I love oatmeal, Meliris, so I may try what you suggested. I may also try that watered down OJ thing Stef suggested. If the OJ is watered down, I may be able to tolerate it. Thanks, again!

Meliris, I have a question. You said

"After that is depleted, your body uses lean tissue (catabolic pathway) before it uses fat (lipogenesis) as a fuel source. "

Ok, if I go through my glycogen stores, I will burn protein before fat? I had learned years ago that you have to work out for 30 minutes before you get to 'fat burning'.
I thought the order was carbs, fat, protein in the exercise phase. If not, and the 'fat burning' was referring to calories burned, is a 60 minute cardio workout necessary? Would two 30-minute sessions at different times in the day do the same thing?

Did my question make any sense?

[QUOTE=Jennifer 3FC]
Ok, if I go through my glycogen stores, I will burn protein before fat? I had learned years ago that you have to work out for 30 minutes before you get to 'fat burning'.
I thought the order was carbs, fat, protein in the exercise phase. If not, and the 'fat burning' was referring to calories burned, is a 60 minute cardio workout necessary? Would two 30-minute sessions at different times in the day do the same thing?

[QUOTE]

If you go through your glycogen stores, you'll burn lean tissue before fat. The fat is utilized last, unfortunately. A 60 minute cardio session at a moderate level (what most cardio machines call "fat burning mode") is the most that I'd recommend. You can accomplish the same or better results by increasing the intensity and doing intervals of high and lower intensity (walk-jog-walk-jog) and be done in 30 minutes. If you want to do continuous moderate cardio, 2 sessions are probably better if you have the time for all that. The fat eventually gets burned, but it's after the exercise session is over and your body is rebuilding itself, as long as you are in a caloric deficit.

Make sense?

Mel

Ok, I think that makes sense. So, more than 30 minutes is not specifically required to burn fat. I've heard the phrase 'you're not burning fat until after the first 30 minutes' -that would be incorrect, right?

One 30 minute session that is higher intensity can burn the same amount of fat as a lower intensity, longer session? As long as I am in a calorie deficit.

Is that what you just said?

Jennifer, the designation 'fat burning' is misleading.

In the context of aerobic exercise, scientists usually measure intensity using VO2max (a way of measuring your aerobic fitness) or heart rate. The harder you train, the higher your heart rate. You're also said to be working at a greater percentage of your VO2max.

When you walk, for example, you're exercising at around 40% of your VO2max. Turn that walk into a jog, and both your heart rate and the percentage of your VO2max that you're exercising at will rise.

Your body uses different proportions of its two main sources of fuel (carbohydrate and fat) depending on how hard it is working. The concept on which the fat burning zone is based is the idea that your body derives a higher proportion of its energy from carbohydrate the harder you train — which is true.

For every 10 calories you burn during exercise at a high intensity (85% VO2max), up to 3 of those calories will come from fat.

For every 10 calories you burn during exercise at a moderate intensity (65% VO2max), up to 6 of those calories will come from fat.

So how did the fat burning zone myth thing get started. Well, yYour body is always "burning" a mixture of carbohydrates and fat for fuel. This mixture tends to contain a little more fat during lower intensity exercise. Somebody took this to mean that a lower intensity workout was best for losing weight.. not so!

1. It all comes from the same "pot". It doesn't matter if you're burning a little more fat or a little more carbohydrate at any particular time in your fuel mix. It all comes from the same calorie pool. The bottom line is, how many calories are you burning.

2. Moderate intensity exercise actually burns more calories in a given time period. For example, you may burn 200 calories during a 30 minute low intensity exercise session and 300 calories during a 30 minute moderate intensity exercise session. Bottom line.. burning more calories is better for weight loss.

3. Moderate intensity exercise increases your basal metabolic rate (BMR) more than lower intensity exercise. This means that you'll burn more calories 24 hours-a-day.

4. Here's the one I like! Moderate intensity exercise gives you a better "high"! You know, the "exercise high" you get when your body releases endorphins and adrenaline. This can really elevate your mood and is great for people who are depressed.

So? Well work out your training zone using the Karvonen principle - you do know it, honest! It's the heart rate one where you subtract your age from the magic number 220 to get your theoretical maximal heart rate (MHR). Then you work out 60% and 80% of your MHR. If you are just starting your exercise program, you should be at the lower end of the range. As you become more conditioned, you can move up in the range.

This will help you to get the most benefit from the exercise you do, cos you'll find it easy to start with giving you a chance to learn how to enjoy it. Then as you get more able you can push it up to get the 'high' in number 4!

The problem is that the science is REALLY scary and varies fromperson to person! In order to get the 'real dope' you need to read the execise physiology bible and that is a) very expensive and b) passes way over the heads of most students who have to read it to pass their sport and exercise exams!

But please be assured I passed those exams with flying colours and use this info on a daily basis. I myth bust for a living. In fact I might change my job title to "Grand Vizier and Exercise Myth Buster"

Oh! To answer your question about splitting sessions - don't panic about it. Evidence suggests that for the less than elite athlete as long as you accumulate the exercise minutes you get the benefit. Although there is a definite benefit to longer sessions this benefit is not big enough to force your body through a long and painful and injury inducing session instead of 2 more comfortable shorter ones! The shorter sessions make it more likely that you will enjoy it and be pain free and therefore, more likely to continue - win win in my book!

Thanks to both of you, you've been a big help!!

I am part of the group that exercises in the afternoon between meals 4 and 5 (I eat 5-6 times a day) I always have and always will exercise in the afternoon/evening because that is my preference.

I think that it's important to just do it and of secondary importance is what time of day that you do it.

Hockeychic - working out in the afternoon is ok!

JC

Ok, so I'm confused now. Do I need to eat something before EVERY workout? Or just in the morning b/c I haven't had anything to eat in about 8-10 hours? I usually do Pilates first thing in the morning and then I eat breakfast - should I switch this? I thought that I was doing more good b/c I was boosting my metabolism and heart rate before eating - meaning that the calories would burn quicker. I'm sure that I'm wrong as I have absolutely zero credentials

Hi Emily,

No credentials doesn't mean you are wrong. Crikey, I have a bag load of them for my job and I often know absolutely nothing at all!

Physiologically you should eat something before you do your Pilates, although many people don't and don't seem to suffer for it in any way whatsoever. This is because, as you rightly said, you haven't eaten for 8 - 10 hours and it is likely that your body is in a carb depleted state.

Now I know I will always bump heads here because the HUGE amount of exercise information that is out there comes from all sorts of sources. BUT I will say, until someone I respect tells me different based on scientific trials, you CANNOT burn fat in a carb depleted state! You will only burn off the bits of your body that don't disturb you. You will still burn calories but not as many as you could have and not in as efficient and healthy a manner as you would have if you had eaten a litle first.

The good news is that a large glass of watered down orange juice is enough!

As for afternoon exercises, if you eat regular meals then you probably won't need to eat specifically for yor exercise. The chances are that you will have eaten within 2 hours of your session anyway.

Of course you could just ignore all the conflicting advice you are getting and do what feels comfortable for you! As long as you have a sensible balanced diet and aren't trying to run a marathon a day then you should be doing just fine as you are!

Good luck!

Thank you Stef! Your advice was pretty much the same as my aerobics instructor (I was so intrigued by this thread that I asked her before class that day). She went on and on about something in the liver and all sorts of biological functions that a pre-law major doesn't really care about - then she said "but you'd be fine with just a glass of juice". SCORE! I can certainly do that!

Hey Mel, you seem to know your stuff so here's my question.
Do I really need to go out and get a bunch of protein shakes in the morning if I only have 15-20 minutes to digest? Or will a glass of orange juice or an apple be enough?

Thanks!

sorry one more question. should I change what I eat for a weight lifting workout and a cardio workout?