The Insomniacs' Thread
 

I know that 3FC is a global forum and there's always someone here, but I thought I'd start a thread for those who are struggling with sleep issues that create obstacles with weight loss goals.

For me, I have an upper airway obstruction, so I use a CPAP device to sleep. I love it. I know it's not sexy, but it helps me fall asleep most of the time.

Having said that, I also have issues with falling asleep at times, especially when I'm stressed, it's too hot, the dog is hogging the bed (I'm getting her a crate tomorrow!), etc. Sometimes these issues prevent me from falling asleep at the beginning of the night, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and can't back to sleep.

When I don't sleep at least 7.5 hours, I spend the day dragging myself around task to task. I overeat in an attempt to get some sort of energy. (This is how I gained most of my excess weight, before the apnea diagnosis.) I keep working out, but not very enthusiastically. So grateful that I live just a few blocks from work and I can walk. Sometimes that wakes me up a little.

I have an alarm clock that simulates sunrise in the morning and I get up at a consistent time daily. I try to go to bed by 10, but usually my sons or the dog prevent me from getting to bed before 11. I try to stay off the computer from 5 p.m. onward. I know I'm on the computer now, but I'm wearing some amber sunglasses that block the blue light that is put off by computer screens and TVs. I put those on by 7 p.m. every night and take them off when I go to bed. I wear an eye mask as well as the CPAP mask to bed. And keep the room as dark and cool as possible. Summer is on approach, so the fan is on and I take a cool shower before bed. I do my weight training workout a few hours before bed, which is supposed to help my body cool down and get me sleepy. I stop drinking liquids by 8 p.m.

But even though I do all that to get a good night's sleep, it doesn't always work. So I'll may be here, with my amber sunglasses on, complaining about how I can't sleep.

Just took my calcium/magnesium capsules. About to take my cooling shower. Dog is in my son's room tonight. Fresh sheets on the bed. This better work tonight!

Well, I didn't fall asleep until after midnight. However, it's Sunday, the dog spent the night with her boy (my youngest son) and I slept nearly 8 hours! I woke up obnoxiously cheerful. It feels good.

I'm a freelance writer and have done some research/writing about sleep. And you know something? I think a lot of the advice out there is BS. In my opinion, sleep hygiene is as individual as losing weight: what works for one person may not work for another, and what DOESN'T work for many people may be just perfect for you.

You know what helps me fall asleep more reliably than anything else? Exactly the sort of "stimulating" activities the experts advise against: reading in bed, doing crossword puzzles in bed, watching TV (we don't have a TV in our bedroom, but it works like a charm in hotel rooms), even exercising late at night. I've concluded that any activity that engages me helps me relax, which usually causes me to drift off sooner or later.

So I suggest you experiment with whatever helps YOU relax, even if it's shoot'em-up movies (just kidding to make a point).

Freelance

You are so right! I have never been a person who takes naps and I don't have problems falling asleep. But when I was in law school I used to read my text books when I got home from school in the early afternoon. Every afternoon, like clockwork, I'd fall asleep on my couch while I was reading my texts! If I was watching TV or something that would NEVER have happened! I think the kind of stimulation matters.

Geo, I also use a CPAP machine. Before I got it (about 10 years ago or so) I was literally falling asleep at my desk at work because of my sleep apnea. Since I got it I sleep so much better. But my problem is that I also have allergies, so many times it is hard for me to breath - even with the CPAP - because my nasal passages aren't fully open. That is SO frustrating! Do you have issues with the CPAP?

Freelance, I'm a freelance web developer/designer and content writer. I am on the computer A LOT. I have noticed that the longer I am on the computer, the more difficult it is for me to fall asleep. But my sleep issues have been with me for all my life. I think that for me, it has more to do with ADD than anything. My brain is ALWAYS running like a hamster in a cage!

I've noticed that I can get three or four good nights of >7.5 hours of sleep and feel awesome, but then have three or four nights of <4 hours of sleep right afterwards. I'm about to have some saliva tests run to have a look at my cortisol levels. My doctor suspects they are all messed up.

I've switched up my weight training workouts from morning to evening to help me sleep better because if I do them in the morning, they make me sleepy. I struggle to fall asleep when I do cardio later in the day, so I do that first, then the weight training or Pilates. The harder the weight training workout, the more apt I am to fall asleep within a couple hours.

I do read in bed, on my Kindle, but that's dangerous because I have trouble staying with the reading. I get distracted easily, an idea pops into my head as I'm reading about Norway, and suddenly find myself writing a research paper on ancient Viking lore and planning a traditional pagan Norse feast for the summer solstice. And then I can't fall asleep!

I don't like to go to bed unless I'm sleepy. Just too frustrating.

Don't want to take pills, but I may have to resort to it. Ran out of melatonin two weeks ago and forgot to get some. Perhaps today...

Joefla70, that's my same issue. The only skinny parts of me all live in my nose. I have very narrow nasal passages due to allergies, year round. The CPAP helps me breathe at night, as long as I don't have a head cold. Sometimes I've had to use the BreatheRight strips to open things up, but I forget to buy them. Will put them on my shopping list today!

I was just in the living room watching TV when I started getting sleepy. I got up to head to bed, but then started to lock up the house for the night, put some food away that my son left out, saw that there were wet clothes in the washing machine that I had neglected to move to the dryer so I moves them, took the dog to the backyard for potty then put her in the kennel, then I had to use the toilet, and I checked messages on my phone, saw the boss had texted me about a situation, took care of it...

Wide awake and surfing the net. Darn ADD! And THAT'S why I have insomnia!

I completely agree with this. I used to read until my eyes were so heavy that I'd put my book down and bam, I was asleep. I've also done this playing solitaire on my cell phone. My problem is that I think too much and I give myself an hour to sort out what is bothering me, and then I think myself to sleep. I've been using an app that plays nature sounds (first a creek and now rain) for an hour, and I concentrate on those sounds to relax me.

I do this too. If I don't put my head down when I start to feel sleepy, then I'm wide awake for hours afterwards. I think that maybe you need to set a specific time to go to bed and then make sure all of the chores are done and your phone is turned off. I have my phone on airplane mode and silent overnight and I'm sleeping a lot better. I always give myself excuses and other things to do instead of going to bed, so I end up wide awake at 5 a.m. etc because watching youtube videos is more exciting than sleeping.

Such wisdom! Wish I had read this last night. Got an email from a disgruntled customer (skewed expectations on her part) and it knotted up my stomach for hours. I ended up working through some emotional cycles and came to the conclusion that I don't have to fix everything for everyone (I'm dangerously co-dependent at times). I know this sounds like a "Doh!" moment, but I have hung on to that idea, to my detriment, for such a long time. So, not wasted time, since I got something out of being awake, but I am going to need a nap today!

Good thing was that I didn't get up to eat my way out of the emotions. And I spent some time knitting. Actually, that's what put me to sleep eventually!

We all need those 'doh' moments every once and a while. Moments when we stand back from our situation and think of a better way :) Knitting is good because, although I've not spent much time knitting, it's relaxing and mostly slow paced. You sound like a 'thinker', like me, and so knitting would be the perfect way to be proactive and think at the same time.

As I read over your first post, I wonder if you are being too careful or strict about your routine. Does you find that you stress out of you, say, forget to wear your eyeglasses before bed time? If yes, then maybe this is preventing you from relaxing and getting to sleep because you are worried you didn't do enough to set your body up for sleep. It's just a thought :)

My insomnia is destroying me! UGHHHHHHHHHH! I need my psychiatrist. But my next appointment is two weeks from now and I already scheduled an early appointment recently so I can't do that again. AND my sleeping pills aren't strong enough :(

I'm not really an insomniac but my sleep cycle is way off. I sleep until 2 in the afternoon and then I'm not tired at night when I should be sleeping. I'm a freelance writer/web designer so I can work whenever I want but I prefer to be awake during the day and sleep at night. It's currently 4:30 AM and I'm just now getting tired enough to go to bed. I think my next 21 day challenge will be to wake up at the same time every morning, even if it's 2 PM. I'll do that for a week, then move it up to 1 PM for a week. I'll just keep moving it up and I should be back to normal by summer.

I WAS ABLE TO SLEEP LAST NIGHT NORMALLY WITHOUT MY SLEEPING PILL! All I had to do was ditch this herbal supplement I have been taking on and off for a year! PROBLEM SOLVED! :D

I don't use sleeping pills, I find they do absolutely nothing for me. I average about 5 hours of sleep a night sometimes less and on rare occasions more. I haven't slept 7 or 8 hours on a regular basis for years.
I have no solutions or suggestions.

I went to bed at my normal time but my bladder woke me up at 4:30. Couldn't get back to sleep, so I got up and took care of things for the day. I'm really sleepy right now. I am not working this morning, so I think I'll go back to bed now.

I can't sleep again. The temps are getting higher again, well into the 90s and I'm not prepared to turn the a/c on yet. Too hot to sleep. I feel puffy. After two weeks of water retention and fluctuating weight, massive carb cravings overtook my resolve to stay on track Friday and on Saturday morning, the jungle drums were beating in my ovaries, telling me my period had finally arrived. What a diva!!!

So very tired all day Saturday, but I still had to function as parent. Was really hoping to get to bed early tonight, but the kids and the dog kept me up again. And now I feel too wired to sleep, on top of the heat, cramps and puffiness.

Knitting. More knitting...

I didn't sleep well all weekend. I decided to catch up on sleep during the day on Monday and now I'm wide awake. Too hot to sleep, again.

Not overeating to stay awake like I used to, years ago. But I'm still not losing weight. At the moment I'm feeling a bit doomed to being fat forever. :?:

Didn't go to sleep till 2:30 a.m. yesterday, but tonight, it looks like I'll get to bed by 12:30 a.m. I'm finally getting sleepy!

Just saw this, via Mark's Daily Apple, all about the effects of poor sleep on our ability to burn fat.

I hope it's getting easier for you to fall asleep at night, or at least that you are getting slightly more sleep. :hug:

Poor sleep has been an issue for me for years. Too little sleep last night made this thread catch my eye this morning. :lol:

Georgia - I hope the cortisol tests reveal something useful for you. Is it a 24-hour panel that will show your pattern throughout the day? For me, part of my sleep problems are rooted in my body's tendency towards a 'bad' rhythm in my cortisol levels -- too high when I should be asleep, too low in the AM. A customized transdermal cream has proved helpful for this over the past 10 years, though my body will apparently revert to that pattern without vigilance...

Wanted to also mention F.lux to you -- it's a free program you can download that will alter the light spectrum being emitted by your monitor/laptop, depending on the time of day. I know you said you've got the amber glasses - same principle. A lot of people really love it. I *think* it helps me a bit. Can't hurt.

I've had good luck with melatonin over the years - doesn't eliminate the issue, but helps control it. A few years ago my doctor had me add nightly l-theanine caps and that was a positive step as well. (Theanine promotes a relaxation response - might be worth looking into if you're anxious or have an unquiet mind.) During some really bad rough periods, my doctor also gave me samples of something called Kavinace - it is REALLY strong with grogginess issues, but worked for me. Very few other things do - even barbiturate sleep aids have little effect on me!

Sorry for all the unsolicited advice, especially since it's all so individual - my heart just went out to you reading your posts on this thread. Sleep management seems to be so much like weight management - it's not enough to settle one big aspect, but rather a constant balancing act between a lot of variables... and you're so right that poor sleep has terrible consequences for weight loss and health. I really struggle with putting it as my #1 priority sometimes, but it's so foundational...

haha, sorry for the sleepy rambling. Good luck :)

:hug: Awww, thanks so much for the concern and support. I had a talk with my youngest last night about the study I cited earlier. He found it very interesting, especially since he's a high school freshman football player and wants all his training to mean something. He promptly went to bed at 10. But of course, I didn't. :p But I did get in the bed before midnight. So over 6 hours of sleep last night. I am taking naps during the day when I can. I really need to stop letting my kids' sleep patterns dictate mine. When they're up late on the weekends gaming, they make a lot of noise and keep the dog up. Which in turn, keeps me up. My best night's sleep is often when I'm away on business trips and staying in a nice hotel room.

Falling asleep is really the hard part for me. My doc suspects my cortisol isues are similar to your's, Desiderata. I am trying to take a truck-load of supplements these days, and one of them has the L-theanine in it. When I remember to take it, I'll see if it does anything for me.

That's one of my issues related to lack of sleep...remembering to do stuff!

Third night in a row with about 4 hours of sleep. Not helping me to lose weight! Very low energy. I am off to take a nap...

I'm up late again. Night 4. Temps are supposed to be lower by Thursday, so perhaps I'll be able to sleep better by then.

I was talking with a healthcare professional yesterday about my sleep issues. She told me to try some pm version of a pain killer. I was concerned with having to rely on taking a pill, but she pointed out to me how not getting enough sleep was going to be far worse for me.

Duh! Wish I'd thought of that! I went right out and bought some Motrin PM. Took some at 8 and went to bed. It took me an hour to fall asleep, but this woman told me my body really just needed to be in bed. I would eventually get used to it. I slept till 5 a.m., and stayed in bed till 6.

This morning I feel pretty alert. Not full of energy since I think I ate too much for breakfast, but still doing well. I feel like doing some yoga.

This is a great thread.

I have trouble sleeping but at other times during the day, I oversleep. I find that taking a hot bath before I go to sleep helps me relax and that allows me to go to sleep more easily. I also take a prescription muscle relaxant that my rheumatologist prescribes every night which makes me sleepy. Sometimes I can't fall asleep but my main problem is staying asleep, usually I awake up to 3 or 4 times in the middle of the night, which is so frustrating. Sometimes I nibble and get a beverage in the middle of the night too, so that's not good either but I do have dry mouth.

Well, that's a wrap for me. I am glad that we have this thread. :)

Seabiscuit, that does sound VERY frustrating. My dearest friend suffers from that and can't seem to find the right solution. I deal with that if I've had any alcohol. Seems to really disrupt my sleep. Intact, I had two cocktails earlier this evening and now I'm worried that tonight will be a sleepless night. I don't think I want to take a Morton PM tonight, but I will take the melatonin.

If it doesn't work, I'll be back.

Thanks, geoblewis for your support. Yup, weird, vivid dreams tonight and this must be the 3rd time I've been up in the middle of the night tonight, ugh.

It's also really irritating and frustrating that I can't get a script for Ambien out here from anyone yet I have taken it before! I know someone who will give me some but I shouldn't have to resort to that.

Damn, I hate this sleeplessness crap!

Since taking the Motrin PM and sleeping longer, I've noticed more vividly dreaming. Maybe that's why I have been avoiding sleep, because it's all about the two most difficult people in my life, the mother and the XH. And why are they in the same dream?! I don't want to see them during the day, ever! So annoying.

Why do you have a problem getting Ambien?

geoblewis,

I have such vivid dreams too! They are so freakish, weird and annoying!

I'm honestly not sure why I have such a hard time getting a script for Ambien. My psychiatrist says he doesn't write scripts for them and another health care professional that I asked won't give it to me either. I guess it could be because I have bipolar but I won't abuse the pills, my bipolar is well controlled, so I don't know why! It is really annoying.

Take care.

Wow, Seabiscuit, how frustrating for you! Hope you find help soon.

I'm (obviously) still awake. Eventually took the Motrin PM, but it's not working. Now I'm just mad! Also having some sciatic issues. Feels like I haven't been exercising enough over the weekend. Which is true.

I want to watch TV, but don't want to wake the kids. I might as well stay up till 6, get them off to school, then go back to bed when I'm really exhausted.

Starting to let paranoia take over. I feel quite stressed about this lack of sleep. Sucks to not have health insurance. I can't afford to get sick.

Just logging in. Took the Motrin a few minutes ago, with the melatonin chaser. Ready to fall asleep when it's dark outside. Hope it lasts the whole night.

Thanks geoblewis! It is an uphill battle trying to get a script for Ambien but I know that the Fibromyalgia is what affects my sleep. I am pretty the Fibromyalgia will get better as I continue to lose weight, so that's another reason to lose weight.

Oh yeah...it's nearly 3 a.m. and I'm back. I had three nights of really good sleep, and I guess I'm topped up, because I just feel edgy and restless.

The plan for Monday night...just go to bed at 10, whether I'm sleepy or not. I can sit in bed and knit the night away. No TV. No computer. And I think I'll stay off the computer for most of the day.

:wave:

Hi geoblewis, that's great that you got some good sleep! Yay! Your plan sounds excellent, good luck with it.

I want to add that I am sleeping better recently. I think it is because I am more active during the day and I am eating healthier. Also, I am spending less time on my iPad before I go to sleep. Maybe I won't need the Ambien after all, althouh after saying that, I will cross my fingers now that I said that. I hope I don't jinx myself, LOL!

Take care everyone and Happy Memorial Day! :)

Ugh
 

Hi,

I haven't been getting a good quality night's sleep the last few nights and it is SO frustrating! I go to sleep and then a few hours later, I wake up, and I repeat this same thing quite a few times during the night, so frustrating and irritating.

My stomach has been bothering me too, I don't know if the two are linked or not.

It seems I almost always wake up tired, I almost never wake up refreshed, sigh.

:( So sorry that you are still struggling with the sleepless, Seabiscuit. I am too. Even when I take melatonin and Motrin PM. I think I can fall asleep quite easily around 3 pm, but I don't because I want to be sleepy at 10. But by then, I'm wide awake again.

One of my counselors told me to just go to bed and work on relaxing at the same time every night. I get so bored waiting to fall asleep. Then I turn on the TV and get caught up with what's on that before I know it, it's 1 a.m. I've fallen in love with Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares and Tabitha Takes Over. Then I lay in bed and plan businesses for myself. OMG! Brain! Please stop!

I just completed my cardio/weights class and I could really use a nap, at just 10 a.m. If I went to bed now, I think I could sleep for hours!

I had to increase my workouts on two days this week to twice a day and noticed that I was finally ready to go to bed by 9:30 last night. Actual, real fatigue! Slept through till the dog woke me up just before 5. If she hadn't whined to be let out of her kennel, I could have slept a couple more hours!

:cp: :cp: :cp:

Congrats!

Just discovered this thread -- didn't even know 3FC had it. I have suffered from my version of "insomnia" for literally YEARS (20 at least). I keep hoping and praying that someday it will ease up -- :( I tend to fall asleep easily, then wake up an hour later -- then 15 minutes after that -- then a hour later -- well, you get the picture. Sometimes it takes me hours to drift back off. Needless to say, I am WORN OUT when the alarm finally goes off (altho also strangely relieved -- like my body is saying "you can quit tossing and turning now"). I have tried prescription meds, OTC meds, herbal meds. Nothing helps me STAY asleep AND (here's the kicker I'm looking for) not feel like a zombie the next day. I currently am not taking anything. Anything new on the market you guys can advise? I am tired of people saying "you look tired". DUH! I AM tired, lol!