Oh I forgot to say Carol Sue that this time of the year has always been the best time for me to diet and lose weight. I'm not sure why but I seem to do better during the holidays than most people do. Maybe you are the same way.

Trish, I think the reason we do that is because we are weight conscious and want to be careful that we do not overdo it and have a gain. Since I do most of the baking and cooking in our family, the food and sweets don't tempt me that much. By the time the holiday comes around I'm sick of looking at it. LOL

I have seen the book Life Without Bread but never read it because I did not want a life without bread. LOL That is my biggest carb weakness. I can easily pass up other carbs, but bread gets me every time.

Carol Sue I can understand not wanting to give up bread. I have felt the same way. I heard about the Life Without Bread when reading about gluten free eating on another lowcarb site. Someone had asked about eating without gluten. Someone wrote and shared that she pretty much followed the Life Without Bread plan of eating only 72 grams of carbs a day. She also told what she ate. She has 1 slice of toast with breakfast. Someone else made a comment of how it was funny that she ate bread on a Life Without Bread plan.

Of course reading the book, I see that he sees carbs as starchy carbs and some dairy but not all. He isn't talking about non-starchy vegetables. Potatoes, bread, pasta etc are starches and they cannot go over 72 grams a day. So she could have one slice of bread and count it as part of her 72 daily grams. He says not to be fooled by complex & simple carbs... carbs are carbs and should be counted. The difference in his book and the book lowcarb for dummies is that his limits are 12 per serving and no more than 72 grams where the dietician used 15 per serving and 75 grams daily. He says if you eat more than 6 servings a day you risk becoming sick with some disease. 6 or less is 12 g serving X 6 is 72 for living a long healthy life.
So I'm going with his idea. Besides he has the proof of all this in the book according to his references.

Free foods are any kind of animal meat including cold cuts which can be cooked any way you like them. (Much like most low carb free foods). Cheese, sour cream, cream cheese and yogurt without sugar, cream and milk. However, he stresses milk in moderation. I'm not sure you have to count the carbs in milk unless you use a lot of it. I'm not really clear on that so I will see how it affects my. I do like milk once a day and I may have to count the carbs in it. Not sure. We can use all animal fats. On LWB, non-starchy veggies are unlimited except for tomatoes. Nuts are allowed in moderate amounts and alcoholic beverages (unsweetened only) in sensible amounts are allowed. If I understand this right, I can have fruits but they have to be unsweetened ones and the carb count may have to be part of the 72 grams. I'm not sure on that either. I hope the book will clarify this later. He does make a statement at one point that there is nothing anywhere that says that we actually need carbs, but our bodies does need protein and (animal) fats. I will explain the reasons why we need animal fat later.

It appears that if you use a small amount of breading that you don't have to count the carbs unless you use a lot of breading. Sauces are freebies unless a lot I used especially if it is mostly sugar-based such as barbecue sauces which includes sweet & sour sauces.

Since I'm probably not getting any nutrition from my foods etc and DH has a problem swallowing pills, I have found a 5* liquid multi-vitamin and a 5* colloidal minerals products I can get from the The Vitamin Shoppe where I have bought vitamins before. I'm giving up all of our store bought vitamins and replacing them with these to liquid vitamin and mineral products. I ordered them this morning. Being liquid, I believe we will get more nutrition this way. Plus the colloidal minerals has the 2 minerals that diabetics are deficient in vanadium and chromium.

I really believe using these two product along with the Life Without Bread 72 grams daily limit is very doable and gives me a better chance of living the rest of my life healthier. I do want to find some good low carb like Paleo cookbooks for some healthy meals and desserts because DH does like his sweets.

I am excited to say that my ticker is finally right on today. I couldn't believe that I had a whoosh this morning that landed me right back to where I was a few months ago. Now to keep it going.

I've got a beef roast going today and will steam yellow potatoes and carrots and with my glass of milk I'll have less than 40 grams of carbs today. So it is all good. I did find some gluten free crackers and sweet potato chips so I might add a serving of one of those when I have my tuna salad for dinner, but even at that, my carbs will be less than 60 grams. Unless I am gluten sensitive, I can see how I could have 1 slice of the Sarah Lee multigrain toast with my breakfast each day and still be less than 72 grams of carbs. But I didn't have it this morning and I will not eat it for a while to see how I do without the wheat.

If you read this far, thanks.

Oh, I read the whole way down, Trish! LOL I stopped buying the Sara Lee bread and started buying Silver Hills Sprouted Whole Grain Little Big Bread. I buy it in Target in the dairy department, not the bread aisle. I had heard a lot about sprouted grain and wanted to try it. I put it in the freezer and it lasts me a long time because I don't eat it every day. I usually eat my eggs without toast but occasionally I will eat a slice of toast with them, and sometimes I will make a sandwich. The slices are very small and thin like the Sara Lee bread. It is not gluten free. It is not a soft bread, but has a chewy texture. If I am out, I sometimes will get a hamburger with a bun, but mostly eat it without the bun. I do try not to eat much bread, but it is a favorite of mine.

I think when they say we don't need carbs, they are not talking about vegetables and fruit. I think we need the phytoneutrients from them and the fiber. That's just my opinion. But bread, pasta, rice, potatoes I agree we don't need. When I used low carb for maintenance for 10 years, I would eat breaded chicken and not worry about the breading. If that was all the carb I was getting I was ahead of the game, and it never effected my weight. Oh, if I could just get back to the way I ate then!

Congrats on the whoosh, Trish. Errr, you don't HAVE a ticker!! Just your stats over on the left.

Carol Sue No I didn't have a ticker because I got tired of bouncing up and down, but I decided to add one since I hope things are to start going down for me. New look and a new start.

I ended up eating 50 grams of carbs today. DH brought out some candy and I really thought I wanted some, but then I decided that I didn't really want it bad enough to gain any of my weight back. So I ended up with a successful day.

I like your new avatar, Trish. A woman on another thread told me that she went to a dietician for her binge eating and was told that when she was tempted to eat something she shouldn't, like DH's candy, to take just a minute to think about it and in most cases you will decided not to eat it. So that worked for you. Sometimes it's hard to do, and the food is in your mouth before you can even think. I do remember that happening to me one time and I ended up spitting it out into the sink. LOL I don't remember what the food was.

I removed my ticker a while back too, and also my stats. It just go too depressing when I kept going up and down. I don't know if I will ever add them back. Maybe if I start seeing success.

Carol Sue When I first went to OA and was starting the gray sheet and I was getting used to not eating any sugar, I suddenly realized one day that I had just put something in my mouth that has sugar in it and I did the same thing you did. I spit it into the garbage disposal. I did that a few times while I got used to being more mindful of not eating sugar. My problem back then was that our sweeteners were so sweet that they would become a trigger. I didn't know that back then and neither did anyone else in our group. When we would come to our TOM we would crave sweets and I would binge on foods made with them if I didn't give in to something sweet.

I wanted to say that I counted the 12g of carb in my milk yesterday since I didn't think the LWB was clear enough about counting or not counting them. So I am making those carbs part of the 72 grams allowed. I decided that it wouldn't hurt for me to count it. It will just be part of my woe of eating on this plan. I really think at our ages that we need to have the calcium.

As for my ticker, I want to see my progress. I weigh everyday, but I might even try to stop that and weigh once a week making Monday my WI day. This might be a good idea since my weight bounces. However, I know it bounces so I'll see how it goes. I also love that avatar. I never felt the way that avatar makes me feel. I decided I needed something to pep me up. LOL

I thought of this when writing out my food plan for today. When I did WW years ago when my kids were little, I got in the habit of us eating the same food each week. WW had recommendations back then of only eating 2 or 3 red meat servings and we had to eat liver once a week. My family loved red meat (I didn't know that my kids got tired of liver until my youngest son said one day when we were waiting to go grocery shopping said to me "Mama, do have to have liver every Wednesday? Can we have something else?). I wasn't going to WW then so I stopped the liver meals however the red met meals stayed. My family knew in advance what we were having to eat for supper on any given day. Example roast was on Sunday. In fact, I finally had to stop that because my oldest son complained about having roast every Sunday. LOL!!!

As I thought about this, I began to think that this would be a good plan for DH and me. Since DH likes only certain foods and we are doing this pretty much together, I have decided to take those foods and make up a weekly plan of what we will eat each day of the week so we can get in the habit of eating the way we need to eat for good health. This should work well by eating only the foods we both like.

On LWB, we are allowed cold cuts which I buy for a quick snack to stay OP and keep me from eating chips etc. I noticed DH is beginning to go into the fridge and himself a slice or 2 of cold cuts and puts mustard on it for a snack. He even picked up a package of bologna at the store last week. That will be so much better for him than some of the junk he has been eating.

I've read that a lot of people who lose weight successfully and keep it off make their menu plans a week in advance. I don't think it has to be written in stone that we eat fish on Monday and pork on Tuesday etc. I think it be flexible so you can switching days up during the week. For example, some Mondays like yesterday I like to make a beef roast, but then some Mondays I like fish or chicken. So it could be flexible and I can also allow for those days when we go out to eat which on average works out to be only 2 to 4 times a month depending on what is going on.

I honestly believe I have found a way to make all this work for me and DH as a lifestyle. Funny thing is, although I now CAN have 72 grams of carbs a day instead of 20 or 30 grams, I do not feel it is necessary to have 72 grams a day. So far today according to my food plan, I only have 30 grams planned and 15 of those may not be used. Isn't it funny how you can take away the strictness of a plan and make it feel more normal and it makes the whole thing easier because it takes away the pressure.

I saw you Carol Sue a low carb group that isn't as strict as Atkins etc. I've been reading and thinking of joining there. Now that I have my plan, I may see you over there.

Hello All,
Can i just jump in and comment on Life Without Bread....I've read the book and 2 things that jumped out at me were 1) the doctor's ideas are based on observations of over 10,000 patients with most of those being diabetics, and 2) a comment at the end where he says that in the pre-insulin era, diabetics were told to eat 72 (what he calls utilizable carbs & describes as net carbs) daily. Has anyone here had success with this diet?

joyful retiree Welcome. I have just read part of the book so I've just started this way of eating. I've been looking for something that I could use as a basic way of doing low carb that wasn't so restrictive. I always like Atkins, but never could stay with the 20 grams a day even for the 2 weeks.

I have had the book for quite some time, but recently read it again because I read on another low carb site where others were using it. I will keep sharing on this thread how it works out for me.

Hi Joyful Retiree! I never had much luck with 20 gm of carbs either, but I have not had any weight loss for such a long time I don't know if anything works for me. I haven't read LWB.

Trish, I can't wait to see where you join the Low Carb Group. I post on several of them, so I don't even know which one it could be. I still have not found a WOE that will give me the losses I want.

Hello everyone!!
I went through all of your chat (mostly) and found that you guys count grams of carbs?
Could you help me out with that?
I'm new to the chat, not new to this illness. My mother is diabetic and I'm insulin resistant (sort of pre-diabetes)...
I tried being semi-plant based (avoid most of animal protein, I say semi because I did eat fish & egg, some cheese sparingly but I'm lactose&casein intolerant) for 2 years...
I'm not super overweight but I'm still struggling with the same 20 pounds as when I started this "lifestyle".
I'm not completely improving my numbers, my Uric Acid has gone up (weird right?) and I read this might be because of the fructose in Fruit.
Also my TSH (thyroid hormone) has gone up, and that's SUPER new for me... I don't want to have hypothyroidism so I'm trying to treat all my health related issues with a homeopath right now.. (I also have PCO's)...
All and all the doctors I've visited concur that I must increase my consumption of animal protein since my body is not doing well on all the veggies.
I mostly don't consume bread (maybe a sandwich once or twice a week) and no pasta (don't like it), almost never rice and if I take it I only eat the brown one so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
I'm going to try the low-carb but I really need some guidelines.
It hurts my heart to start eating animals again but I must see if this is what my body needs to be healthy. I've tried stopping and it wasn't working (apparently) for me.

thanks for reading !!!

Hi agutzg! Lots of information. First of all PCOS is involved, and I don't know much about that except that it limits weigh loss and raises the risk of diabetes.

I thought uric acid was raised by excessive animal protein, so that has me stumped.

The vegetables could be raising the TSH, especially if you are eating them raw. I eat mine well cooked and still get a raised TSH occasionally, but not all the time.

You're doing well not eating much bread, pasta or white rice. If you don't want to increase your animal protein you would probably have to look into other protein sources. I think you can still eat some fruit but choose those that are low glycemic, and eat small portions.

I don't know a lot about any of these medical conditions. Unless someone else chimes in here with more information, I suggest you google PCOS, Uric Acid and TSH. And also protein sources for vegetarian/vegan diet.

You could track your food on an online tracker such as Fit Day or MFP. This will tell you how many gm of carb, fat and protein you are eating, and help you see what changes you should make. You can also enter each food individually to see the results for each one rather than for the whole day. I always hear that the carbs in vegetables are minimal and for you, I think it's more important to be aware of the protein since that's where you seem to be low. When I had a home nurse, she told me to eat some protein with every meal. It doesn't have to be a lot of protein, but some.

Sorry I can't be more help. Please continue to come here and let us know how you're doing.

Wannabehealthy, I appreciate your response!!
I know, I was stumped as well but my lab tests don't lie and since I wasn't consuming animal protein other than eggs & fish (sparingly, maybe 1-2 times per week at the most) it just struck me as VERY odd

here's where I saw it, I don't know if it's valid but it definitely rang a bell. I am yet to get my bg monitor which I see might be very helpful to see the effect of food in my system, but I'm trying to take it a step at a time.

/articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/06/19/richard-johnson-interview-may-18-2010.aspx

I've been on a Fit something app/journal but I get desperate of having to put all the foods in. I know it's some time investment that does pay off but I'm just weird that way, I may do it for 3-5 days and then stop for a month. I must get better at it.
I think that the "advantage" is that I do workout a lot. I do HIIT & strength training, I do regular cardio besides that as well 4-6 times a week and that has maintained my health I guess.
My PCOs are a dx I got in 2011, I don't have many symptoms other than lack of my period & some irregular pimples from time to time (those luckily have stopped).

I don't know how to maintain the whole vegan/vegetarian/plant-based approach. I've been fighting to keep eating like that with myself, my family, my work,... and having to give that up is taking a toll on me, most definitely.
What I really wish is to be healthy, that's my main wish, my main goal.

I'll see how my body responds the next couple of months and I'll be sure to keep you guys posted.
Thank you again, you were great

agutzg, I found this site that has a list of things that can raise uric acid and one of them is hypothyroid, so there's a tie-in!

http://www.mayoclinic.org/symptoms/h...s/SYM-20050607

Although I am a meat lover myself, I understand where you're coming from not wanting to eat it, so I hope you are able to find ways to do vegan with more protein and fewer carbs.

Good luck to you!

Agutzg - Do you eat a lot of soy and soy-based products?that could be affecting your thyroid.