Originally Posted by mottainai:
Anyone still reading this book?

I'm the one that started this thread a while back.... I remember being amazed at it the first time, but somehow I slipped pretty hard into binging and not caring about stopping it for a couple months now. So thinking about going back and re-reading it!

I know what you mean. I was really down on myself when I fell off the wagon this last time. I thought (for a while anyways) maybe this would be it and I wouldn't go back to bingeing. Didn't happen. I was on a full-blown bender for about a month and didn't regain control until January. My problem was (is) I still need to lose weight, so I can't fully implement and embrace some of the solutions this book provides . . . not yet anyways. It still resonates with me and I do believe in what she is saying, but I feel too crappy about myself right now to stop dieting. I do plan on reading it again when I get down to my goal weight. Maybe some part of it has sunk in as I have been BF for a little over a month now, but for some reason it seems like I'm in a different frame of mind than when I was BF after reading the book.

Will be interested to hear what you think if/when you read it again and if it works for you. Keep us posted!

Well, seems as if I'm not the only one!

It seems like a lot of people struggle with letting go of the diet mindset. That certainly is hard, but very important to the strategy in BOB, since deficits just make the addictive voice SOOOO much louder and more appealing...

As someone who has read Kathyrn's book many times, I truly agree with her that you won't be able to stop bingeing and quiet those voices once and for all until you decide to stop dieting. That includes calorie counting, low-carbing, counting fat grams, or implementing any kind of food rules that take you away from your own hunger/fullness signals.

I do think that what helped her was that, at the time she read Rational Recovery, she had already given up on all notions of dieting, no longer cared about being skinny, and never cared if she lost another pound. She just wanted to stop bingeing so that she could have her life back.

Having already been a naturally thin eater before her issues with food began, she just went right back to what she had done before - eating when she was hungry, and stopping when she was full - several times per day, and her weight regulated itself back to where it was before she began the diet that led her to bulimia.

I think that's another reason she is so anti-diets: She has seen firsthand through her own body how useless it can be and how powerful the body's drive to maintain stability is and that YOU CANNOT BEAT BIOLOGY, because she lost the weight through starving, which triggered bingeing, which caused a massive weight gain over her natural weight, and then when she stopped all dieting/bingeing behaviors for good, guess where she landed back? At her original starting point! She could have avoided all of that pain and weight yo-yo-ing if she had left her body alone in high school; something she is painfully aware of and mentions in her book.

I know most folks are resistant to stop dieting because they believe they will get fat and/or eat uncontrollably, but it's not true. The dieting is only exacerbating the problem and obsession.

Maybe when/if some of you are ready, look into Intuitive Eating. It's not permission to have an ongoing binge (I hate when people try to make it out to be that), it's about re-learning to get back in touch with your body and eat according to the signals you were born with, not some "expert."

I hope this allowed because it talks about her weight after she recovered, and how nothing needs to be done (aka, no dieting) to get rid of it, and that without bingeing, maintaining that higher weight is not possible.

eta: I was going to post a link, but I can't as I have under 25 posts, but please visit brainoverbinge.com, click on her blog on the left side of the screen, and then under 2012 it will have her recovery weight post!

Originally Posted by bingefree2013:
Maybe when/if some of you are ready, look into Intuitive Eating. It's not permission to have an ongoing binge (I hate when people try to make it out to be that), it's about re-learning to get back in touch with your body and eat according to the signals you were born with, not some "expert."

I don't know much about intuitive eating. But I can tell you that I know my body's signals are totally out of whack. I wouldn't trust my body's instincts if my life depended on it. This is a biophysical problem, I only want to eat junk food. I love salads, I love hummus, I love vegetables, I love healthy food. But I do not crave it. I am addicted to sugar, fat and salt. Eating sugar fat and salt causes me to want more sugar fat and salt. It's kind of ridiculous, I have to get off that roller coaster before I can do anything else.

Originally Posted by bingefree2013:
I know most folks are resistant to stop dieting because they believe they will get fat and/or eat uncontrollably, but it's not true. The dieting is only exacerbating the problem and obsession.

Maybe when/if some of you are ready, look into Intuitive Eating. It's not permission to have an ongoing binge (I hate when people try to make it out to be that), it's about re-learning to get back in touch with your body and eat according to the signals you were born with, not some "expert."

I hope this allowed because it talks about her weight after she recovered, and how nothing needs to be done (aka, no dieting) to get rid of it, and that without bingeing, maintaining that higher weight is not possible.

I haven't read Intuitive Eating either, but Geneen Roth comes to mind as she is very much about listening to your body's signals and letting go of the restriction and dieting.

I guess I'm torn on all of this. That certainly is a healthy mindset to have, but I don't think it's as simple as saying that's the way to go for everyone at any given time. Katherine was fortunate for a few reasons: a) she was/is naturally thin. She states in the book that now that she is eating normal she actually is quite thin and could probably even stand to gain weight. b) she's fairly young and her metabolism corrected itself almost immediately. These factors alone give her a huge advantage that many people don't have.

I truly think BoB holds a lot of validity and I also am a big fan of Geneen Roth's books and how she approaches ED's. That said though, it's just not a one size fits all solution; there are people who simpy have to be very diligent with their diet to lose weight -- and for people who are obese or morbidly obese, they don't have the luxory of waiting years and years for their weight to naturally regulate itself.

I still feel like this rational recovery approach holds a lot of promise and hope for a lot of people -- specifically the idea that you don't have to fix every emotional issue you've ever had to recover. It seems though that it's a far better solution when you're already at or near a reasonable weight.

Just wanted to stop by to say I love this thread and I hope it continues. I am working on implementing the approach. When I first read the book I was in the middle of a binge tear that went on for ten days, but now I'm on day 4. It feels different. I first have the real hope that this approach will take me to binge free forever. But I'm glad to also see in this thread that's its important to harness that initial momentum and remember that thoughts like "it's okay sometimes" and "you've been good for so long" are just junk bubbling back up. The trickiest part of all this is how to eat while doing this. It's a hard pill to me to swallow right now to eat in s way to maintain my current weight. I'm sweatpants-uncomfortable after that last binge streak. I'm "normal" weight but still. So my calories are at least 1200 but that would be enough to lose for me. If it becomes a problem I will think about upping it and just resigning myself to slower and less dramatic weight loss. I just can't be gaining and losing 15-20 pounds constantly. So tiring.

this book helped me the first time but now it isn't helping me at all. Anyone else find this????:(

@spiritangel for me, this approach works, combined with eating enough and not calorie restricting (which doesn't work for long term sustained weight loss anyways). I really recommend "the willpower instinct" in combination with this book (BOB). It has concrete strategies for recognizing and getting out of behavior patterns that don't serve you.

Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny:
I walk around every day thinking how does this person or that person stay within their calories per day? Why is she satisfied with half a sandwich while I need two? Why is someone blessed with the ability to say no to food while I fight this demon every moment I am awake?

I have very similar thoughts, WBS. Just an hour ago I found myself resenting my husband for the fact that he helped himself to just 6 tiny meatballs for dinner -- not because he has any weight to lose, but because that's all he wanted to eat.

I think it's a matter of finding the rhythm that works best for each of us, while acknowledging it will never be perfect. For example, I'm coming to realize that (unlike many people here) I have a lot less willpower in the morning and afternoon than in the evening. So I'm experimenting with having very small suppers on the days I overeat at breakfast and lunch. It seems to work better for me than depriving myself earlier in the day, when I'm much hungrier.

I'm also realizing that buying certain foods (like sweet potato Wheat Thins or Terra vegetable chips) with the expectation that I'll "just have a bit every day" doesn't work for me. I'm a sucker for sales, so I have to train my brain to ignore these "special deals." It's not easy, but I think awareness is a good first step.

F.

Wow—I just read through this whole thread, bought Brain Over Binge on Kindle and read a bunch of it, and I'm really excited about the possibilities here.

Six weeks ago I would have never have believed I could be free of my secretive eating rituals, but now... I'm starting to hope. I identified my trigger foods as cookies, candy & donuts, and on my first attempt to remove the binges on those foods from my life, I went 52 days without eating them. That was cool! I didn't get the idea from anything I read: I just told myself, "I'm going to take a vacation from obsessing about those foods."

However, it did feel kind of like restricting, and I think that's why I found myself overindulging on other kinds of sweets (like pie) that normally don't tempt me.

So this is a learning process, and I'm very much at the gathering-info stage.

But I can say this already: Kathryn Hansen's message that you don't have to go through some enormous emotional rehab in order to quit binging does come as a huge relief. I'm 58 and I've already had all the therapy I need. I want an approach that is (1) practical, and (2) doesn't take years on end. This book seems like it may have the answer.

Should I be worried, though, that I'm currently on a very low carbo diet? I like the way I'm eating right now. I get plenty of calories, as many as I want, and I also get foods (like cheese & nuts) that taste yummy and satisfy me. I'm desirous of losing weight for health reasons, and carbo restriction seems like the best way to do that—for me that is, not speaking for anyone else. I don't want to finish Hansen's book and conclude that I shouldn't be on my low-carb diet.

I guess what I'm asking is: do Hansen's methods for stopping binging work if you happen to be on a diet to lose weight?

Originally Posted by Fiona W:
Wow—I just read through this whole thread, bought Brain Over Binge on Kindle and read a bunch of it, and I'm really excited about the possibilities here.

Six weeks ago I would have never have believed I could be free of my secretive eating rituals, but now... I'm starting to hope. I identified my trigger foods as cookies, candy & donuts, and on my first attempt to remove the binges on those foods from my life, I went 52 days without eating them. That was cool! I didn't get the idea from anything I read: I just told myself, "I'm going to take a vacation from obsessing about those foods."

However, it did feel kind of like restricting, and I think that's why I found myself overindulging on other kinds of sweets (like pie) that normally don't tempt me.

So this is a learning process, and I'm very much at the gathering-info stage.

But I can say this already: Kathryn Hansen's message that you don't have to go through some enormous emotional rehab in order to quit binging does come as a huge relief. I'm 58 and I've already had all the therapy I need. I want an approach that is (1) practical, and (2) doesn't take years on end. This book seems like it may have the answer.

Should I be worried, though, that I'm currently on a very low carbo diet? I like the way I'm eating right now. I get plenty of calories, as many as I want, and I also get foods (like cheese & nuts) that taste yummy and satisfy me. I'm desirous of losing weight for health reasons, and carbo restriction seems like the best way to do that—for me that is, not speaking for anyone else. I don't want to finish Hansen's book and conclude that I shouldn't be on my low-carb diet.

I guess what I'm asking is: do Hansen's methods for stopping binging work if you happen to be on a diet to lose weight?

I didn't read the entire book. But I believe her method is that you shouldn't be over restricting yourself. Now, who's to say you are restricting yourself more than any other human being? If your restrictions haven't caused you to binge then it's ok. You're learning how to balance and that's a good thing, so if you feel good about what you're doing then do it.

I too was freed by the notion that I don't have to FIX the emotional me in order to fix the physical me. I mean, everybody has emotional issues, not just us. Addressing our habits and redirecting our cues seems much more practically than going to therapy forever. I've been to therapy. I've found out why I turned to binging. So what? That didn't help me fix it, there's actual work to be done, practical work.

Thanks for your reply, Wannabeskinny— I've finished reading the book now, and am relieved to report that while she is concerned about the way calorie-restricted or fad diets in teenagers can set them up for developing eating disorders, she thinks that adults should do whatever they need to do: if they need to lose weight, a reasonable modification of one's diet is, in her opinion, just fine.

The book has been like a huge blast of fresh air for me, and perhaps a total game-changer. I have yet to test her technique against a serious urge to binge, because my urges to binge have gone way down in frequency since the "vacation" from certain trigger foods I described, but already I feel much more in control, much less apprehensive about future urges. I have read some postings by people who think her "just say no" approach is too simplistic, but those just seem sad to me: I wish that Hansen's well-written big idea could be a game-changer for everyone who binges.

If you don't mind my asking a personal question, how's the brain-over-binge technique working out for you these days? I'll certainly understand if you'd rather not say...

Fiona, it's not a cure. It works for a while and then it leads to binging. I'm just being honest here. I don't know if her method is a problem, but everything I do always leads to binging so I don't blame any solution for being MY problem. The book was important though and I keep it in mind for minor binge impulses. I know I am able to say no at times when I'm not feeling too much stress. And it does help to know that there is a psysiological problem rather than blaming myself for my lack of motivation. I take it one day at a time. I weigh less this year than I did one year ago, even if it's just a few pounds it's still an accomplishment to me.

I appreciate your words of caution, Wannabeskinny. I'm going to keep taking it one day at a time, whether Hansen's technique works well for me or not. I've been binging for nearly fifty years, so the habit is strong in my brain.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts as I hang out in the Chicks in Control section! Best wishes for the days ahead...

Originally Posted by freelancemomma:

I think it's a matter of finding the rhythm that works best for each of us, while acknowledging it will never be perfect. For example, I'm coming to realize that (unlike many people here) I have a lot less willpower in the morning and afternoon than in the evening. So I'm experimenting with having very small suppers on the days I overeat at breakfast and lunch. It seems to work better for me than depriving myself earlier in the day, when I'm much hungrier.


F.

that's very true. I'm the opposite: I eat less during the day and binge at night. My insomnia and having to work at 3 am for my job also makes my binging worse (plus I work at a bakery and sampling is not forbidden, though it should be!). When I actually get some decent sleep (at night), I notice that I don't binge and also don't take second helpings for dinner. The days when I sleep almost the entire day, I binge eat to compensate for the lack of food intake during sleep. I'm trying to stay up and sleep at night, have an early dinner, and do healthy snacking throughout the day, but it's still difficult.