Misora - I have the same issue with carbs and depression. While most days my Wellbutrin and exercise fix the issue I have to admit having a bowl of cereal has a certain "medical" effect on my brain. Makes it easy for me to see why I gained so much weight in the first place "Self Medicating" isn't a caual term it's reality.

Misora and Muse - I'm another one that must regulate my carbs. Too many or too few are problematic for me. It seems to be a balancing act most days - in fact, I do best if I balance carbs/fat/protein every single time I eat.

I have been counting my calories religiously, and, sometimes I do come up a hundred or two (or four) calories short of my 2,000, but I certainly don't need advice either about it. :lol: Plus, I take it as a bonus. I don't see any point to eating any more when I'm not hungry. After all, that's how I got in this mess, by eating above and beyond satisfying hunger.

Plus, some days you are just more hungry than others. Which is fine. I don't know how many of you have zig-zagged your calorie intake, but I find I do it naturally without even trying, specifically because of those days you're just not hungry anymore.

I find that an equivalent calorie or carb portion of an actual whole grain (and not overcooked) is much more filling and for much longer than anything made with flour.

Back to topic :)

That was really my point, that our issues are very real, whether anyone else can relate to them or not. And it is also ok, to not understand someone else's point of view. I've seen "featherweights" post, and even in real life say behind my back (not trying to hurt me, just not knowing I could hear them) "how can anyone let themselves get to that point, I would never allow myself to get THAT fat."

Sting? You betcha! Malicious? Not always.

I can't relate to the bathing suit fear, because swimming was a refuge for me, even as a child. It was the one place on the planet, where my weight didn't work against me. I could keep up with and often compete with non-overweight swimmers (at least when I was younger). Walking to the water was like a death march, but in the water I was free. There isn't much I wouldn't sacrifice to have that kind of freedom. Even now, it's the only place that I can get in an aerobic workout, and really EXERCISE for more than 10 minutes. After 10 minutes of fast walking, I'm sweating profusely, my face is purple-red, I can't breath, and by heart is pounding so hard, I can feel the pulse in my head, and it feels like my skull is about to pop off. But in the water, I can play and play hard. My husband has to remind me after 60 minutes, to consider how I'm going to feel out of the water (I've actually exercised so hard in the water, that getting dressed was very difficult and I could barely move the next day because I was so sore).

I would live in the water if I could.

I am horrified that there is a cultural taboo against less-than-perfect people (especially female people) swimming, or even allowing themselves to be seen in a bathing suit. It's the one place that an overweight person, or person with severe disabilities can exercise comfortably, and yet it's so often culturally "off-limits," to the people it would help the most. I'm a freak (but a freak on a soapbox).

It's just important to remember that we can never completely walk in another person's shoes.

As someone who's weight loss took them down the dark, twisted path of anorexia, I can truly tell you how it feels to be "unable" to eat enough. I could tell you how your mind twists your reflection, your body image, the food on your plate, to these huge, balloon-like contortions. I could tell you of the deep, hateful self-loathing, the constant "You're not good enough" over and over in your head.

That's REAL "not-able-to-get-enough-calories" - not "ZOMG I'm like 300 short :o If I eat more will I still lose weight?"

Posts like that really, really pi$$ me off.

Kapolds, thanks for your reply. :) It sounds like you're fabulous in the water, and I think it's wonderful that it makes you feel free! That's awesome!! If only we could all feel free and without judgement!

In the end I didn't mean to upset anyone or make them think I'm trying to get attention or whatever.. I'm honestly not that kind of person. My question was genuine and now I feel like an idiot for asking... :o

I guess I just didn't know/realize how my question would sound I suppose... :( I do enjoy this forum & have learned a lot in my short time here, but am thinking that I probably don't belong here. I was losing weight on my own up to this point so I may as well finish alone... ;)

Good luck to everyone!! :)

Well, Moralia, I dunno. :dunno: Seems to me as though everyone has been trying to tell you it's OK, nothing personal, your questions are welcome.

I'd rather see you stick around! But good luck in any case! :hug:

Jay

If you don't belong, I don't either...*wink,wink* ;);)

I guess I'm a "featherweight" as well. While I've never struggled with obesity, but I am overweight and very unhappy about it. I think our concerns and issues are just as valid.

So far, I have felt supported and welcome here. I think it's important to remember that every person is entitled to hold their beliefs and opinions, and differences are bound to arise.

When I am eating healthfulll there are some days where I get to the end of the day and I'm thinking...okay, what else can I eat?!?! It doesn't happen often enough LOL! Part of the reason I track on thedailyplate.com is because they use a pie chart to show the balance of carbs/fat/protein. Based on that I'll pick my snack.

I wish I was more consistent with it though. I keep gaining from emotional eating. argh

Don't give up on us yet - I think until someone's been around here a while, they don't understand how little judgement there is here. Not that we don't disagree or even that we do so quietly, it's just that we've learned not to take disagreement or even criticism personally - we stay friends, even after arguments get really heated (the one rule is no name calling, you can disagree and support your argument and tell someone you think they're wrong, but you can't resort to namecalling, not so much as a "poopy head," can be uttered without the moderators intervening (and even that is done politely, and gently).

What is wonderful about this place, and can't be found many other places, is honesty and openness. No one is going to smile at you to your face, and stab you behind your back. We do spill our guts, and sometimes that gets messy. When you spill your guts, sometimes it inspires others to equally freely spill their guts (and if that makes you uncomfortable, it can be a bit disconcerting at first).

But ultimately, it's what makes this place unique and effective - we talk about the "real" stuff (and the real stuff isn't alway purty). Just as in many support groups, being so honest means we have to look at and discuss the bad stuff, not just the stuff that everyone can agree on. The "nice" stuff you can discuss with anyone - even strangers on the streetcorner, but it's the dark parts of yourself that you can only discuss with people who are willing to look at, and talk about the dark parts.

Even in this thread, there was a lot of disagreement (well, actually more counterpoint, "consider this," than "you're wrong" responses), but no one said "you are a terrible person for feeling this way, and you don't belong here because of it."

One thing I think makes it hard, is that in "the real world," many of us deal with a lot of passive aggressive behavoir. It's not "polite" to argue or to disagree..... so often we wonder what people are "really thinking" when they're willing to speak their disagreement outloud. But that's not the "truth" here. If someone tells you what they think - they're probably not sugar-coating it. We rely to much on honesty here, to take it for granted. If you asked us "does this dress make me look fat," we would tell you "well, it's not hiding anything," (and some of us, might even say "yes, it does.")

So, you don't have to worry that anyone here hates you because of what you said - because if that were true, they would have said it. No one was "just trying to be nice," because we don't have the luxury of lying to prevent hurt feelings. We need the truth, because so few people in our lives will give it to us.

I'm not saying that carelessness is a good thing, but we can't care more about politeness than the truth (as we see it), because finding people to lie to you is easy, finding someone who you can trust to always tell you the truth (even, and perhaps especially when it's something you may not want to hear) is a rare gift that is very rare in this world.

When you're used to people around you pretending to agree with you, even when you know they don't, it's really strange to see people being so frank and even blunt. It feels like a hostile attack, when it's just a matter-of-fact "Hmm, I don't think that way, this is the way I think, wow isn't that interesting."

You also need to know that some of us learn best, through an argument. It's not meant hostily, it's just that defending your position, really makes you think about what you believe, and why you believe it. And some of us are even crazier, and sometimes play devil's advocate (that's a particular fault of mine, because I can almost always see both sides of an argument, and often haven't worked through what I believe, if I see anyone argue one extreme too enthusiastically, I tend to write a counterpoint, more as a "but have you thought of it this way," rather than a "you're wrong, and I can prove it."

I think you'll find a niche here, if you are patient, and realize there really are all kinds here. We've just all learned to be maybe a bit "too" honest with our opinions (but I wouldn't have it any other way, because it's so nice not to know that when you ask for an opinion, that you know that you're going to actually get one.)

I am one of those people who finds it very difficult to get enough calories. A lot of my weight gain came a lot from medical conditions, and not making smart choices when I did eat, not all from simply over eating. Now that I am making healthier choices it is sometimes hard to get enough calories and its not fun. I am a recovering anorexic and I have other medical issues. I never ate because I was bored, never ate because of sadness, though I wouldn't want to have to deal with any of that its not how everyone got here. I have had to keep a food journal since I was 15. If I don't I am lucky if I eat 500 calories a day, and its just that my body doesn't get hungry. I don't get hungry like normal people do, never have when I was little I would go days without eating more than a couple bites. It is very possible to not be able to get enough calories, and not be able to find a place to get them from that is good for you and that you want to eat. Sometimes at 8pm I've eaten 900 calories and couldnt put another ounce of food in my body without feeling sick. Its not mental its that I am honestly full and I am not going to stuff myself to sickness.

When I first started it was very hard going from a high in calorie/fat processed food diet to fresh fruit, veggies, lean meats, whole wheat diet.....so it was kind of hard to eat all my daily points. You really don't have to eat a ton to gain weight....just making poor food choices with high calorie & fat contents will do it for some.

I was totally out of my box but I went with it (I cleaned out my entire pantry, fridge & freezer one day and went shopping with a food list from the Core plan with WW :lol:) As I read here & went to my WW meetings I got a bit more comfortable with planning my day the day before & even menu planning for dinner for the week.

Now that it's been a while it is hard to think back when I was in the "OMG I can't seem to eat all my calorie/points!" group....because now you bet I'm eating what I'm allowed ;) Sometimes I catch myself thinking why on earth are people having such a hard time with not eating enough? I always have to remind myself though what it was like for me in the beginning :D

Moralia -

You can do it on your own like you've done before but your very welcome here too. It's really helpful on your "off" days and come get advice or even just a sympathetic "me too". Its nice to know we're not alone, but we wish you the best either way.

For the ones that are thinking about leaving, don't go because of this thread. I have been here for a while and this is honestly the first judgmental thread that I have seen. There are a lot of people on this board that will help with any questions and its a great support group. Ignore the haters and move on *wink* lol

You know, all, sometimes these provocative questions that push buttons are the BEST THING out there. We need to think, to reassess what we are doing, WHY things bother us, and discuss it. If we stop thinking, we stop growing as people. If we discuss our thoughts, we can learn from each other, and learn about ourselves with respect to our personal biases, beliefs and about the limitations that we place on ourselves. Because if we always do what we've always DONE, we'll always get what we've always GOT! And most of us are here because we DON'T want to "get what we've always got"!!! And at times, we ALL post and ruffle feathers. And we hear lots of opinions that we just might not be wanting to hear. So a thick skin is a good thing -- to divorce the emotion from the information -- so to speak...

I love this thread. And I love the discussion. And I hope this forum never, ever changes.

:hug: to ALL of you...

Kira

I LOVE this place - I can't imagine traveling this journey without 3FC.

That being said, forums are not the perfect form of communication. This thread has been - like many others before it - worthwhile. It is informative, thought provoking and emotional.

And - threads like this one remind me that discussions that take place in print are NEVER complete. While we could all sit around and SAY what we have said, and no one would be offended, the same is not true with the printed word.

So, to everyone offended by this thread - step back, breathe - and realize that no one here meant to offend or to suggest that you don't belong here. ALL are welcome, and if you could HEAR the tone of the messages that prickled, you would realize that there is no judgment here - we value your presence, and your opinions.

Don't leave - we want you and we need you!

Off :soap:

Good morning, I had to step away from this yesterday and let all the new responses sink in. First off thanks for all the excellent posts and general debate that my cranky, generalized statement, posted at 1am created...ooops :D

I just want to clear the air on a few things. I NEVER posted this in response to ONE specific thread, I would never in a million years single out one person and say "hey I think your wrong". Not cool and I'm not a total douchebag like that. If you were to check out any of my previous posts I've been nothing but supportive and encouraging of my fellow 3FC members. I truly love it here and owe a lot of my own success with coming here on a daily basis.

I don't want anyone to leave or think of leaving because of one post I made that they don't agree with. Shoot I would have been out of here long ago if that were the case. Maybe in the future I'll think twice about posting at 1am when I'm cranky and wanting to eat half of my pantry but I don't regret my post.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse and get into the whole "not being able to eat enought" discussion. I've got more to add but its pretty much already been said and I'm happy to have a better understanding of why people run into that problem. Now I have to get my butt in the shower so I'm not late for work. Thanks chickies!!!

For me it's easy to not eat enough...You got to be 240 pounds from eating crap right? Crap filled with calories where it's super easy to eat too many calories. WHen you quit eating the calorie filled crap and start eating vegetables and low fat meats sometimes the calories don't add up like they did when you ate burgers and fries and potato chips.

Daniela- Thanks for posting your data- it was very cool. It helped me to see all the "spikes" that must have been discouraging days and how they fit into the overall trend. Also, as a calorie counter, I don't have much guidance other than RDA for how much fat I should be getting, so that helped give me a little perspective.

I posted a thread about not getting enough calories and how it relates to the infamous "starvation mode"...not exactly a post about having trouble getting enough calories, but similarly themed in that it wasn't a post about over-eating. I totally know what you meant and where everyone else on here is coming from, but here's my take anyway:

Say I ate 1000 one day and it was between dinner and bedtime. Maybe I'm hungry, maybe I'm not. The angel on my shoulder is going, well, maybe you should drink a glass of milk or eat a piece of fruit to make sure you're getting all your nutrients. The devil on my other shoulder meanwhile is having an identity crisis: do I treat myself to a cookie? or do I just go to bed because I want to maximize my calorie deficit in an "I would do anything to lose 5lbs even if it's not 'healthy'" kind of way? But what if that throws me into "starvation mode" and I actually gain weight zomg?! Better check 3FC to see if I should eat more or not...

Haha just a little trip inside my head.

I sure did get to 240 by eating crap but I also had no clue what the right portion size was when I started my new way of eating. So when I quit eating the crap that doesn't mean I was able to understand portion size. It's also easy to overeat on healthy food if you aren't weighing or measuring. I haven't touched a bite of fast food since Sept 08, for me that's been easy, but I still struggle with portion size. If I didn't weigh or measure my foods I would always give myself extra. Whether it's an extra oz. of fish or chicken or an extra 1/2 oz of nuts I would ALWAY choose more if I didn't weigh my items. Those calories while healthy, they are extra and would add up, hence my lack of understanding of how someone my former size could struggle eating enough calories.

Without counting calories, food journaling, and my digital kitchen scale I wouldn't be where I am today. I understand a busy day and missing a meal and then wondering at 8pm, "I've only had X many calories should I eat more". That happens to me (not often since I plan my meals the day before but it happens). Sometimes I decide to eat something sometimes I don't. But saying it's hard to eat X many calories in one day is a little harder for me to understand. From reading others post I understand a little more. When you 1st start out it is confussing and you want to do a good job, you want to eat healthy, but you might not know how to do that right away. I think the easiest way to get more calories is to eat healthier fats but one must learn what those are. I also lift weights and drink protein shakes after my workouts so I'm getting 300 cal a day from just a shake (sometimes I'd rather have 300 calories of actual food but I know I need the extra protein for the kind of training I'm doing).

I hope that sheds a little more light on my initial post.

One more thing...
We are all here to try to lose weight. We gained weight in different ways (eating crap, eating to much, eating crap & eating to much of it, etc.) I think when I posted this I failed to see that I struggle with eating too much, I like volume, where as others might not they might struggle with eating "healthier foods". It was fairly easy to change my diet and eat healthy, I truly love the food I make, and the additional benefits from eating "clean". I have more energy, my skin has never looked better & I'm more regular (TMI). But there are still days where I want to eat more. I have a few tricks sometimes I make mega salads, I love it, I feel like I'm pigging out but my mega salad only has 500 calories. I know this is something I need to work on. This is turning into a real eye opener even as I type this...so need to look into this more instead of posting pissed off threads LOL

I think a lot of problem is for some people its easy to grab say some peanut butter. Not for me, can't eat it. Grab some avocado, nope not me I don't want to go the emergency room. Grabbing good fats and high calorie things like nuts and such doesn't always work. Planning doesn't always work either.

Its hard to understand things that you don't have to think about. I see that, and I understand it.

My husband doesn't understand how I can eat a sugar free Popsicle and never get hungry, and not be able to eat an other ounce of food without getting sick.

A lot of people don't understand how a person can eat tons of junk food and lose weight, and eat super healthy and gain weight, but I understand that if my thyroid medication isn't exactly right or I didn't take it at the right time it messes with my body badly.

It doesn't mean anything if someone doesn't understand it just means that they don't have to live with those things. I know I don't understand emotional eating, or boredom eating, I wouldn't ever want to deal with those things.

It's hard to not try to understand things you don't live with on a daily basis, but those things are very real and hard to deal with for those that have to deal with it.

When I read the title of this forum, I took it in the opposite manner. I thought it was about people complaining because thier diets were not allowing them to eat enough. I was going to raise my hand and say "Me!" to that one. :)

On that note, my husband can usually eat more than me. Except when it comes to pasta. Pasta fills him up right away, and I could eat it until I explode without feeling full from it at all. It's odd how we all react differently to different foods. I wish I'd go ahead and find the ones that filled me up right away already!

Hi forestroad - Glad you found the chart helpful :D And thanks for posting what goes on in your head. I liked the whole angle/devil conversation hehe made me think of Tom and Jerry for some reason. I think we all stuggle with that angle/devil on our shoulders we just can't beat ourselves up about which choice we make the next morning. I also checked out your blog and I just wanted to tell ya you're looking great (I'm addicted to progress pics). Nice job!

I've been thinking about getting a volumetrics cookbook, maybe that will help you too. One thing I like that is big and fills me up is a GIANT omelette (I only have time to make it on the weekends).

1 whole egg
3 egg whites
1oz fat free feta
onions
peppers
spinach

one whole wheat english muffin w/ tbsp jam

350 calories

Daniela, thanks for your reply.. :hug:

And thanks to those in my position for explaining things better than what I did! lol!

When I switched over to 100% healthy & clean food I became full faster, because I was no longer eating mostly starchy white carbs, etc... Kwim? So it can be tough for me to get in all my calories... and like someone else said, it's really hard for me to eat when I'm not hungry, it makes me want to literally throw up.. :o I was given some great advice and the have done better the last couple days, than I was before with my low calorie level...

Hope I didn't upset/offend anyone... and sorry for taking things so personally... :o

I don't think anyone in this thread posted anything inherently mean or offensive. Emotional content is so difficult to convey in posts, because of the lack of body language and tone of voice (and even in person-to-person conversations there are often misunderstandings). Sure someone may have felt and therefore meant their post to be harsh or biting, but I think it's fairly unlikely, and besides more conducive to communication to assume that there was no ill intent.

But that is really difficult, at least here, because so many of us have histories of people being cruel, judgemental, critical, or condescending because of weight issues. Add that to the fact that obesity and weight loss are often considered impolite or inappropriate topics of conversation, and there are so many taboos involved, not to mention all of the backhanded compliments involved.

I think we sometimes try to uncode messages that weren't coded, because of our experience with passive aggressive social "code" for discussing inappropriate subjects or criticism guised as a compliment. Ah yes, the lovely backhanded compliment.

"You have such a pretty face," means "Geez, you're fat."

"You have so much potential," means "You're a lazy, loser."

"You have a great personality," means "You're ugly as a hound."

"You're so creative, means "You're weird."

"I love your enthusiasm," means "You've got no talent."

"How thoughtful (a gift)", means "Ugh, this gift sucks, you don't know me at all, do you?"

The problem with experiencing more than your share of backhanded compliments, is that everything can look like a backhanded compliment. If someone says "you look nice today," you start wondering if they meant that you look crappy every other day. And if someone says something that we find a bit critical, we think "what are they holding back, what are they really trying to say."

For people who hold nothing back, this is very confusing. My husband nearly always says exactly what he means, but I still tend to get really crazy upset sometimes because he'll say something that reminds me of a backhanded compliment from my mother (the queen of backhanded compliments) and I'll go ballistic on him, and he's so befuddled. When I tell him what I felt he was "really saying," he says "If I had meant that, I would have said that."

In fact, he often tells me "if I say something that could be taken two ways, please assume I meant the good one."

I can say from experience on both sides that emotional NOT eating - not allowing yourself to eat certain foods, or enough food - is much, much worse than emotional overeating.

I simply take issue with people who seem to want to post "lolz I didn't eat enough today!" just so everyone can say "How awesome! Now you can have a goody!" I don't mean to offend anyone, but some of these threads seem nothing but attention whoring.

aww, shucks :o Thanks-- and ditto to you! P.S. That giant omelet recipe looks fan-frickin-tastic...you now know what I'll be eating this weekend :)

I guess I was misleading in that statement. As I said earlier I am a recovering anorexic, at least thats what I consider myself, I don't think its something that goes away. I never really considered it to be emotional eating or not eating in the traditional sense. I just know that I have no experience with over eating due to stress, depression, etc... I wouldn't want to either, just as I am sure people wouldn't want to deal with the some of the things I deal with.

Well, as does happen occasionally today I am going to be short by about 300 calories because I can't really plan due to a weird schedule and not knowing when my husband was getting up, etc.

SO THERE!!!

It does actually happen. Especially since I have such a wacky nonschedulable schedule and it is impossible for me to plan every day. :p

I know for me, and I have posted a couple of 'can't get enough' posts in the past, it's been part of a kind of commitment-induced panic about losing the weight I need to.

Sometimes I am so swamped with the fear that I've made myself fat so many times, that my body will just give out over night, and I won't see another morning on this earth. Less so now but definitely at the beginning it could be overwhelming.

When your eating gets as disordered as mine had, it is really hard to know how to put it right. Conventional wisdom, from my early dieting days, was 'the lower the better', calorie wise. It was 1,000 calores as a given, and meal replacement shakes that totalled maybe 600 for the day were freely available in supermarkets. I estimate I've been dieting for 37 years now. If low and lower had been the answer, I wouldn't be here today, rejoicing that I'm 3 stone OVER the top end of normal weight.

So I tried 1400 to ease myself in, then 1300, then 1200, then 1100 - and my weightloss stalled, the lower I got. If being morbidly obese had been panic-inducing enough, this was even worse: I'm doing everything 'right' and it's not working: I'm going to be fat for the rest of my very short life.

Eventually I believed people and was brave enough to go to 1500+, and my weightloss is going nicely, thankyou, averaging 2.1lbs a week so far. In the early days of eating more, I did get panicked and ask for help meeting 1500. I could go and eat a candy bar but one always lead to more (I haven't beaten that yet) and, in any case, gives me fluid retention problems. Being in a no-man's land between eating everything that wasn't nailed down (before) and 'healthy foods' (as per all previous education, lean, lots of salads etc) became panicky too, didn't want to go back to before, low-fat+low-carb+not very much wasn't helping either.

I understand anyone's frustration, if they're hungry on their diet and that is difficult for them (I'm lucky, I'm a recovering emtional eater, I've never over-eaten out of hunger and don't mind feeling hungry at atll). I assure you though, I've never asked the 'enough' question out of attention-seeking but out of terror that my attempts to stop shortening my lfe would never work.

I love the way this thread has reminded all of us how others push our buttons and we theirs!

Yes but....I thought I'd never say it but some days I can't eat enough :O It's because I'm a recovering binge eater - some days if I eat a lot of low calorie protein, salad, fruit, etc. I feel very very full but have only eaten 1200-1300 calories. I find it easy to eat more if I eat cheese, bread and pasta but those foods are triggers for me binging so I'm trying to avoid them and only have a little bit or eat them occasionally. I find it very hard to either not eat too much or not eat to little and to eat roughly the right amount of calories for me to lose weight. I can understand that's annoying, I never over ate at mealtimes anyway and it was because I was binge eating that I put so much weight on and became so heavy to it makes sense that by stopping binge eating and avoiding trigger foods I would struggle to eat enough. I'm still learning the best way to use calories. I've always found salad fills me up a lot and at the moment salad is what I feel like eating. I'm always less hungry this time of year too.

Some posts along the lines of "I can't eat all the calories I'm allowed" seem to be to be braggety-bragging as if the poster is so delicate and precious that she just can't eat much. My sister is like that; brings in nothing but a yogurt for lunch and claims after that she's just stuffed, but let someone bring in pizza and she's the first one to pounce. And after all, somthing's making her overweight, and it sure isn't the yogurt. Or it's like the woman here at work who says to the other woman wearing a size 14, "I'm getting so fat! These pants are a size four!" That's the kind of thing I took the OP to mean. Oh, and the size four woman? I'd like to throttle her; what an insensitive thing to say to our overweight co-worker.

I think sometimes this is just another reflection of the "culture" of dieting.

Sometimes it's something said out of fear (I can't let anyone know - even myself that I eat as much as I do).

I'm not saying it isn't an accurate and very legitimate experience for many people, but I think there are others for whome it is attention-seeking or defense mechanism. I don't know it's as common here as in the "real world." Still, even when a person is obviously denying or in denial about how much they eat, it's part of a bigger problem.

There was a time when secret eating was a big problem for me. I usually didn't deny that I ate a lot, but I didn't advertise it, either. I was very self-conscious about eating in front of people. My thoughts were crazy, whenever confronted with some foods, or quantitites of foods -

salad (can't eat a salad, people will notice I'm dieting - or think "who does she think she's kidding eating a salad in public?").

regular soda, desserts of any kind, pizza... (people will think "no wonder she's fat.")

the last piece of anything, even if it's the first time I was offered any - or even if my "share" of the pizza was the last slice (everyone had two slices or more, and I'd only had one). I couldn't help feeling like all eyes were on me, if I took the "last piece."

If someone where to comment on my small appetite, or say "you eat so little, I don't see how you can be overweight," I sometimes felt panicky. If I kept my mouth shut, I felt like a big liar, but I didn't want to tell my "secret" either.

Sometimes I think it is a cry of "see, I don't eat THAT much, it's not my fault."

Other times, I think is said, because a person thinks it's something that is "supposed" to be said.

And other times it's said, because it's completely accurate, even when not dieting, quantity may not be the person's issue.

Stomach fullness is largely determined by volume, and a person eating a lot of fat, may not have a large stomach capacity.

Also some people are afraid of even the healthiest of fats, while dieitng, so the idea of eating avocado (which on many diets is "forbidden," because of it's fat/calorie count) to add calories without much volume is frightening.

Also, many people have a list in their head of "diet" and "non-diet" foods, and the only foods on the "ok list" are so low in calorie, it is impossible to get an appropriate calorie count (if you're only eating low calorie vegetables, and little fat or protein, it's going to be fairly difficult to reach a substantial calorie count).

If you are on a plan in which you can "eat anything" as long as you calculate in the exchanges/calories... then it can seem ridiculous to complain "I can't eat enough," because we know there are tons of high calorie, low volume choices.

Sometimes the real problem is something like "Help I have 300 calories to use, but my stomach is full from the four pounds of lettuce I just ate, and I'm afraid to eat anything that has more than 100 calories to the pound."

It can be easy to think "you think you've got problems, you don't know what problems are" whenever we encounter a person with a problem we can't relate to (or would gladly trade for one we have). Sometimes though the person's problem may not even be what they think it is, and without someone helping them scratch the surface, well we all know what a lonely place that can be.

I'm not judging anyone here - this is by no means, an easy situation to be in, or to watch from the outside. Things are just sometimes complicated.

WOW Kaplods!!! Do you live in my head and get my thoughts out on paper so they make sense?!? LOL You described me to a T above. I used to use humor a lot to make light of the amount I would eat if I thought someone was looking at me with disapproving eyes. I remember I would say something like I need that last piece of cake for weight maintenance or how else would I keep up my sexy figure if I didn't have an extra serving of pasta. It makes me sad when I look back at that. I used to feel so lonely like I was the only one that thought that way.

Even if I can't relate to someones problem it's nice to try to understand so you can be supportive. I think learning about each other helps us to be more empathetic.

Daniela, you look amazing! Holy crapola!

I hope that no one would leave 3FC based on this thread.

It always makes me sad when people make posts that discredit the experiences that others have because they've never experienced them. That you've never had trouble getting to your calorie level doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist - just that you don't have it. And to those IN that situation, it's a problem, just like all of the other problems that people post about on this board. Even if only 1% of people here experience the problem, that doesn't make it any less a problem, it just makes it less common.

This is a support board. There is nothing supportive about telling someone that something that concerns them is not a "real" problem. I would encourage everyone to be supportive of others here, rather than trying to compare issues with other people.

I agree, Amanda, that was well said and I appreciate your comments.

Weight issues can be very complex. We all know that one diet doesn't fit all, and that can be on many levels. There are many members here that have completely changed their food choices and it really can result in not getting enough calories. When I tried Eat to Live, I also had a hard time getting in enough food because I was stuffed and my jaws tired from chewing all the greens :lol: So I've been there, on both sides of the issue.

Our situations are always unique and constantly changing. We welcome all dieters and don't require that they fit a mold. I know that several members have been offended by this thread, so we need to close it. But hopefully all of you have shared enough information and exchanges to allow everyone to see both sides of the issue and understand just how unique we all are, despite sharing the same end goal.