[JerseyGyrl]

Originally Posted by Timlin

It's annoying that they can't just do an honest study

They are making it a point to mention (over & over & over!) that the Atkins Foundation FUNDED the study...which automatically leads people to assume the supposed low carb diet they studied was Atkins. You know what they say about assuming Then of course, there are the totally clueless people out there like Ann Curry with her bacon, cheese & steak comment. This is her personal opinion of Atkins...which is incorrect. It does however account for the way most people perceive Atkins. The majority of people (unless they've taken the time to actually sit & read the book) believe we on Atkins sit & eat bacon, cheese, steak, butter etc. and never touch a veggie or a salad. What most people fail to realize is, Atkins (done PROPERLY) is an adequate protein, high fat eating plan. That being said, if this study compared a "low-carb" diet that did not include meat or included very little of it & relied on "vegetarian sources of fat & protein"....I'm sorry to tell ya folks but, this is NOT Atkins! And, most likely, this is the reason for the low weight loss in a 2 year period.

I listened to Dr. Timothy Johnson on the news and noticed he was quick to push people cut down on saturated and trans fats, refined carbs, cut down on calories and exercise. What I found quite interesting was...he never mentioned the effect low carb had on cholesterol. The medical profession has preached low fat for many years and when something comes along that totally contradicts what they've conditioned people to believe...its not an easy pill for them to swallow.

At best, the study was a very poor representation of low carb. I've been doing Atkins for over 4 years now...in the first 4½ months, I lost 50 lbs. If I had only lost 10 lbs in 2 years...I'd have thrown my hands in the air and said "low carb doesn't work!!" but...I'm living proof, it DOES!

[Suzanne 3FC]

The only other big published study that put Atkins (slightly) ahead of a few other diets also resulted in the same low weight loss. Participants lost an average of 6 pounds in the course of one year (almost the same as the other diets studied). And it was a PURE Atkins program that followed the menus in the book, and that didn't encourage plant based protein and fats.

Whether the protein was animal or plant, the diet in this study was "Atkins-like" in that it followed the low carb counts of induction and OWL. I thought it was interesting that the Med group included many more carbs and a wide variety of vegetables and they lost the same amount of weight as the carb controlled group.

[JerseyGyrl]

Originally Posted by Suzanne 3FC

The only other big published study that put Atkins (slightly) ahead of a few other diets also resulted in the same low weight loss. Participants lost an average of 6 pounds in the course of one year (almost the same as the other diets studied). And it was a PURE Atkins program that followed the menus in the book, and that didn't encourage plant based protein and fats.

The menu's in the book...oh good Lord...wonder which book those menu's were from If its any of the newer versions, they encourage "Atkins products" & other unappropriate Induction foods. But anywho...I am thinking I'd like to be a part of one of those so-called "studies"

[kaplods]

I have to admit that I'm rather tired of studies that compare diet to diet and say "here this one was better." I think we've come to the point that we know that, like people, all diets are not created equally. Intuitively, some are going to be better for CERTAIN individuals than others, and there's not a lot of research into finding out the variables that make one plan better for a certain individual than others. And maybe because they haven't found ANY that seems to work very well, they're not looking for more complicated research, but I think that's one of the reasons that THEY aren't finding any of particular success. I think a weight loss program has to be tailor-made to the individual, and for many people may have to include components like nutrition counseling, social support, maybe even "family intervention," and ways to offer or encourage physical therapy/exercise.

I mean there's some "anectdotal" recommendations. Some fibromylagia resources suggest that "the Zone" diet of 60/40/40 carbs/fat/protein) helps control symptom. This hasn't been thoroughly researched, just clusters of fibromites saying it has worked for them. Ironically the Zone is considered a low carb plan by many, and is included in Elizabeth Ward's book, The Low-Carb Bible (good book, by the way).

Insulin Resistant folks may do better on low-carb (a little research, but not much, according to my doctor).

Ornish (very low fat, mostly vegetarian) is supposedly very good for heart disease patients, but very difficult to stick to (with a drop out rate up to 95%). What good is a plan that works, but no one will follow, well if we'd get rid of the idea that only perfection "counts" maybe a lot more.

I think most of us who have battled our weight for 5 years or more, could design a better study than half these geniuses doing the research.

I'm being bitter. I know it's hard to design a good weight loss study, because most people will drop out or be unable or unwilling to comply to the diet as directed. Unless you put eveyone in a locked-down hospital, and searched visitors and staff before they had contact with the patient/participants, compliance is going to be a problem (and I would bet that "smuggling in" off-plan foods would still be a problem). It's the way people are built.

[Suzanne 3FC]

Ornish's plan was originally just for heart patients, because once you reach that point drastic measures are necessary. A lot of research and published clinical studies proved it really did help heart patients. Then there was the less restrictive version that was more for heart disease prevention, and again this plan was really designed for people with concerns about heart health. Weight loss was a fringe benefit, although weight loss in itself was crucial to heart disease prevention and treatment. As far as I know, it was never intended for the average overweight person who simply wanted to drop some weight. You pick your goal and choose your diet accordingly, so the Ornish plan may very well be best for some people, but most average dieters are not going to consider it. However, it is considered an extreme low fat diet just as Atkins is considered an extreme low carb diet. So the media grabs it and holds on for attention sucking headlines, and therefore sends mixed messages. I think that's the case in this situation as well. "Atkins" better than the Mediterranean diet? That's sure good for headlines. Then when you pick apart the study, you have to scratch your chin because that's not exactly what the study showed.

Edited to add: I just found out that this study found that women on the Atkins plan lost an average of just 4 pounds over the 2 year period, while women on the Med diet lost 14. Another study done on a vegan high nutrient density diet lost an average of 53 pounds over 2 years.

[JerseyGyrl]

I think we can all agree no 1 diet works for everyone, you have to find what works for you & stick with it. Atkins works for me!

I believe the impressive part of this study were the cholesterol results

"More surprising were the measures of cholesterol. Critics have long acknowledged that an Atkins-style diet could help people lose weight but feared that over the long term, it may drive up cholesterol because it allows more fat.
But the low-carb approach seemed to trigger the most improvement in several cholesterol measures, including the ratio of total cholesterol to HDL, the "good" cholesterol. For example, someone with total cholesterol of 200 and an HDL of 50 would have a ratio of 4 to 1. The optimum ratio is 3.5 to 1, according to the American Heart Association.
Doctors see that ratio as a sign of a patient's risk for hardening of the arteries. "You want that low," Stampfer said.
The ratio declined by 20 percent in people on the low-carb diet, compared to 16 percent in those on the Mediterranean and 12 percent in low-fat dieters."

A 20% decline in ratio on low-carb as compared to 12% on low-fat...this is quite impressive

Someday, the skeptics will realize that it isn't fat that is bad for you..its the combination of fat & refined carbs.

[KLK]

I don't do Atkins (though I have read the book) but I do limit my carb in-take and I have seen great results with this kind of eating so far; my binging is controlled, I've lost inches and a dress size, I have lots of energy, I'm building muscle like whoa, etc. I've also grown extremely skeptical about the benefits of a low-fat diet. A few of the books I've read on the subject have actually traced connection between the push for low-fat diets and beginning of the obesity epidemic in the US, since low-fat almost always means high-carb. I'm at work now, but I can quote the source later at home, if I have a moment.

Though, as Kaplods said, no one diet strategy is right for everyone; everyone has a unique biochemical and genetic make-up that, well, make them and their circumstances special and I have no doubt that people can and do lose lots of weight (and keep it off) on high/"normal" carb and low fat diets. But for me... eating too many carbs leads to binging, which leads to weight gain and depression and the like. Eating high protein/(healthy) fat foods keeps me satisfied and helps me shed the pounds.

And again to agree with Kaplods -- I think we could run a weight loss study better than the "researchers" too.

Originally Posted by JerseyGyrl

I think we can all agree no 1 diet works for everyone, you have to find what works for you & stick with it. Atkins works for me!

I believe the impressive part of this study were the cholesterol results

"More surprising were the measures of cholesterol. Critics have long acknowledged that an Atkins-style diet could help people lose weight but feared that over the long term, it may drive up cholesterol because it allows more fat.
But the low-carb approach seemed to trigger the most improvement in several cholesterol measures, including the ratio of total cholesterol to HDL, the "good" cholesterol. For example, someone with total cholesterol of 200 and an HDL of 50 would have a ratio of 4 to 1. The optimum ratio is 3.5 to 1, according to the American Heart Association.
Doctors see that ratio as a sign of a patient's risk for hardening of the arteries. "You want that low," Stampfer said.
The ratio declined by 20 percent in people on the low-carb diet, compared to 16 percent in those on the Mediterranean and 12 percent in low-fat dieters."

A 20% decline in ratio on low-carb as compared to 12% on low-fat...this is quite impressive

Someday, the skeptics will realize that it isn't fat that is bad for you..its the combination of fat & refined carbs.

[Suzanne 3FC]

Originally Posted by JerseyGyrl

I believe the impressive part of this study were the cholesterol results

If they truly did eat a diet of vegetable based proteins and fats then this would be expected. Would it have been the same otherwise? We don't really know. But I know people that followed the animal protein/fat version of Atkins that did eventually report increased cholesterol. While an initial drop in cholesterol is expected with any weight loss diet (since it's due to the weight loss and not the diet) after a while the source of fat in our diet does seem to matter.

A few years ago, we did a survey on site to see what diets everyone was following and if they were happy with them, and if not then why. Over 4,000 people responded. Most of the people that followed Atkins or other low carb diets reported quitting because they either found it too restrictive to stick to, or they lost some weight but felt it was unhealthy (based on blood work results, etc). Of those that quit Atkins (or other low carb) many moved on to South Beach and were more successful and satisfied with the options and effect on their health. Still, South Beach came in second in the survey. The most popular diet plan was Weight Watchers, due to flexibility, easy to stick to for the duration, and effectiveness.

[JerseyGyrl]

Originally Posted by Suzanne 3FC

Most of the people that followed Atkins or other low carb diets reported quitting because they either found it too restrictive to stick to

I'm always amazed at the number of people that quit Atkins and come back...usually saying "this is the only plan that worked for me". I've seen so much of that on this board as well as several others I belong to.