[kaplods]

Actually potatoes are not native to Ireland. They are native to the americas (south america, I believe) and were unknown in Ireland until nearly the 17th century. It's very difficult to guage the health of a people on less than 200 years of a dietary change. And being able to procreate is a very poor measure of health, because on adequate calories, even extremely poorly nourished people survive long enough to create families. They may not live to see grandchildren, but the records on the life expectancy of 18th and 19th century Europe are a bit sketchy, at least in comparison to modern times.

I'm not sure when potatoes became a staple of the poor, but even in the mid 1800's most Americans considered it only fit for animal consumption.

Also, while most cultures have a "staple" food and it's usually a starch (with the exception of people such as the arctic innuit and mongolian people who lived primarily on meat), NONE lived exculsively on the staple. No one in Ireland "lived" on exclusively potatoes. They ate a wide variety of vegetables and herbs, and lentils. Meat for the poor was scarce, but they did eat it. Often they were eating the animals and cuts of animals that were less appealing to the wealthy (organ meats, etc). Many peasants were allowed to hunt on the landholders lands, and when they weren't poaching (illegally hunting and fishing) was very common, so we can only guess at how often meat was really eaten.

Even in the arctic, where the inuit did live nearly exclusively on meat, their diet in the summer adds in plant foods such as berries and herbs. While the idea of an "exclusive food diet" is popular, it is more fiction than fact. Just adding "seasoning" herbs and vegetables (like onions, garlic, herbs, grasses and greens) can tremendously boost the nutritional content of a diet.

As for our modern "obsession" with vitamins and such. Nutrition is a "new" science. The first vitamin was discovered in the mid-1930's, so of course, it's a relatively modern phenomenon.

Though there are documents theorizing and advising on the "proper" diet as early as the first century (some with very modern sounding advice). So, I'm not sure that it's a new field of thought for people with time on their hands to do such thinking.

I think the biggest difference is that unlike ancient times, when only a few had enough leisure time to ponder on such things, we all (not just the wealthy minority) have the time to give the matter much thought.

[Squid]

The Irish were given potatoes by the British as they were surfs.

Time to obsess plus convenience products, with a touch of couch potatoizim.........

Kaplods, nicely summed up! Vitamins were discovered around 1912 at Yale (Vit A), but were starting to come into play 1906.

[kaplods]

Thanks Squid for the correction. I was getting my food history facts confused as it was vitamin C that was discovered in 1935.

And of course, the turn of the century really was a benchmark in terms of nutrition and health (and sexuality - though mostly to blame ill health on excessive sexual activity) becoming a common interest and pursuit of the common person (at least those with the time and money to do so) rather than the exclusive domain of physicians and scientists.

Spas and retreats were becoming quite popular (and as today, bizarre, unproven theories and outright quackery were quite common). Health and Wellness were becoming especially big business (there had always been profit in providing true and false "cures").

I'm not sure how accurately the movie portrays the times, or the historical figures (especially Dr. Kellogg), but The Road to Wellville (with Anthony Hopkins, Matthew Broderick and Camryn Manheim) is quite entertaining.

[SoulBliss]

Originally Posted by kaplods

I'm not sure how accurately the movie portrays the times, or the historical figures (especially Dr. Kellogg), but The Road to Wellville (with Anthony Hopkins, Matthew Broderick and Camryn Manheim) is quite entertaining.

That was a FUNNY movie!!!

[kaplods]

Yeah, I should really check Walmart for a DVD. My husband (surprisingly, as he's the much bigger movie buff) hasn't seen it, and I'm sure it would appeal to his weird sense of humor.

Dana Carvey as the bad-seed son, was hilarious too. OH and the scene with they guys sitting in t the sinks of water (with the electric current being passed through the water to their nether regions for some kind of "therapy"). I couldn't stop laughing (even during the "tragedy").

[Timlin]

Well much of what's written I don't agree with but I'm not really meaning to argue the "average Irishman's" diet, lack of diet or where it came from..........I was wanting to discuss todays food issues.

I do agree that the packaged foods and fast foods are a problem today but that's choice; most people who obsess about getting enough vitamins and minerals from their food are not using those choices. We eat a very balanced diet and still take vitamins and suppliments because we are sure we are not getting the balance we need.

I think we have become a nation (or two or three) of worriers about things that really don't need us to worry over. I think we are getting enough from our regular meals to leave us not needing anything except maybe some Vit D to suppliment. I suspect most of the money we spend in this area is just not necessary but I do realize it's big business and so it's pushed at us.

[Leenie]

Originally Posted by Timlin

I do realize it's big business and so it's pushed at us.

There you go, in a nutshell. IMHO it all boils down to the mighty buck.

.

[SoulBliss]

Originally Posted by Timlin

Well much of what's written I don't agree with but I'm not really meaning to argue the "average Irishman's" diet, lack of diet or where it came from..........I was wanting to discuss todays food issues.

I think most people are not accustomed to such narrow yet not immediately clearly defined parameters within which it is "permissible" to discuss things in a thread. Perhaps if you were very specific from the beginning as to what you wanted to discuss and what you did not want to discuss, it would yield results more to your liking.

Personally, I discussed things *you* discussed because that made sense in the context of what the thread seemed to be about.

[Timlin]

Sorry I was not trying to stop the discussion about Ireland and their food I was just stepping away from it myself. I have a very Irish background and many misconceptions live about the Irish and their history (because there were obviously richer and poorer groups. My family was of the poorer group so their situation was a little different.) I just went back to my original point. I don't care who else cares to discuss the history or the benefits of foods. I wasn't meaning to be rude.

[yoyonomoreinvegas]

I agree that we have become somewhat obsessed - hey, we have an entire government agency that decides how much of each nutrient we *should* be getting!

IMHO the advent of processing bulk foods and adding preservatives, etc., along with the relative ease of aquiring it, has much more to do with our modern health and obesity issues than variety.

Even as recently as 100 or so years ago, when harvests were in and food was bountiful, they were eating portions that would be positively enormous by today's standards which made is fairly easy to get all the nutrients/calories they needed. But, the effort they needed to expend just to get that food to the table would have most "modern" folks face down in the dirt. Think of plowing a field following behind a mule 12 or 14 hours a day instead of driving to the store and strolling around behind a grocery cart (an hour at the gym just ain't quite the same). Just doing things like cooking, cleaning and laundry were physically demandng jobs - heck, what they had to use just to do the ironing would pass for free weights today .

Then there's the processing. Some of the processing our great grandparents used to preserve their food may have removed some of the nutrients but IMHO our modern methods of adding chemicals makes it harder for our bodies to process what nutrients are left.

Hey, maybe with the gas & grocery prices going through the roof (not to mention *tainted* foods from the store), we'll end up with more of us growing our own food and walking and riding bicycles everywhere and the obesity/type 2 diabetes epidemics with go away

[Squid]

15 min in the sunshine is all the vitamin D we need daily. That was the recommendation of my Doctor.

Timilin, this discussion was really good. I learned more about the potato and history!

[kaplods]

I'm not sure we have become obsessed, at least not in the way you mean.
Fads have always swept the nation, and on smaller scales in local communities as well. Spiritualism (seances, mediums, spirit photographs, "ghost hunters") was quite popular in the late 1800's and early 1900's. It lost popularity in favor of other things. After King Tut's tomb was discovered, all things "egypt" were popular.

Talk to any collectibles dealer, read books on the history of hobbies and collectibles or watch Antiques Road Show, and you will see some of the trends and "obsessions," of the past.

With modern media, trends and fads sweep the nation even more quickly, and reach more people. "The whole nation," is not obsessed with health and nutrition. While it's a large minority, the health and fitness obsessed are still in the minority. Although a small minority is shelling out the most money (which is generally true of fads, anyway - as with the most widespread trend- those following it generally are not in the majority - it just looks that way).

Most people do NOT know or care much about vitamins. In fact, most people don't even take a multivitamin regularly, and the majority of those who do leave it at that and take no other supplements (and probably couldn't even tell you why they are taking the multivitamin).

How many people are truly obsessed, it's really hard to say. It's a popular subject in hard and soft media stories, tv, newspapers, magazines... and in casual conversations, but what people are interested in and what they do are often very two different things.

A history or antiques buff cand tell you that trends and fads (including health, fitness, and food trends and fads) have ALWAYS been popular.

I think the only reason that fads and trends sweep the nation faster and to larger degrees today, is that news now travels at the speed of light. We see the news as it happens, not three weeks later. We talk to distant friends, family, and strangers immediately and in person rather than every few months (if not years or decades).

[150reasons]

I think one of our most problematic food obsessions in this country is with flavor. I see and hear the commercials all the time, "flavor filled" "new improved flavor," "now with even more flavor" I mean for heaven's sake, do Doritos really need any more flavor? That's a large bulk of our food additives, flavor enhancers. MSG anyone?

[kaplods]

I think if one trend has gotten out of hand, it is for "more," not only more flavor, but just more in general. Bigger and more is almost always seen as better. Portion sizes have gotten insane, because in the fight for our spending dollar, many restaurants and food product manufacturers have attempted to stand out from the competition by offering "more" for your purchase price. Well of course their competitors reciprocate and we have an all-out one-upmanship that continues with no end in sight.

Even fruits have been bred to be bigger and sweeter. So how do we reverse the trend. That's difficult, because people like the idea of getting "more" for their money, whatever that "more" is. And manufacturers/producers/growers aren't likely to cut prices to entice you to buy smaller or "lesser" products, because the profit margin between a smaller or lesser product is often marginal. For example in a restaurant, the food is often the cheapest part of the overhead. It pays for restauranteurs to give crazy large portions, because customers feel they have gotten a "better" value.

The only real solution is becoming a better educated consumer, who has taught themselves what they are looking for and how they are going to go about getting it. Unfortunately, because of the ubiquitous availability of poor quality food, it can become a choice between obsessions. One has to be obsessed, to a degree, in researching what kind of food is in your food.

[snapless]

Maybe one of us should open a restaurant that doesn't offer 'more' for your purchase price, but instead offers lower priced healthy meals that are properly proportionate?

Crazy idea, huh?

They actually go over quite well here in Japan. Even McDonald's here offers more healthy varieties instead of massive sizes. Want a shrimp burger? How about a thinly shredded lettuce/cabbage salad with chunks of grilled chicken breast and fresh tomato lightly drizzled with a peanut oil dressing? You order a medium coke, you GET a medium coke (8 or 10 oz. cup I believe). Or my preference, a cup of unsweetened hot green tea.

NOTE: I am not suggesting eating any of these on induction (although I've had the salad since beginning OWL), I'm just comparing them to the lardburger made with trans fats and processed chicken nuggets cooked in sat. fat loaded oils served in the US.