Here it is: The "Non-Pity Party" Thread!
 

This thread was born from my post asking for frank and honest feedback about myself. Now here it is, for those of you that don't want to be coddled and babied about your weight loss program.

For those of us who need "tough love" and not cyber hugs (well maybe a FEW :hug:), this is the place!

So I'll start us off...
 

I want to say right off the bat that I am and will be very grateful for the feedback I will receive here.

I will make the commitment to be HONEST about my program and how I'm doing. If I screw up, I'll 'fess up about it. If I have a good day, I hope you will all celebrate with me.

Right now I am trying to formulate a plan of action. Any words of wisdom are appreciated!

Words of wisdom: If hunger is not the problem, food is not the answer.

Observation: When we fall off the wagon, and overeat and gain a few pounds, we've said, "It's nobodies fault but my own." We usually say this as an admission, a punishment, a form of self-pity, or to show that we are weak.
I've decided if I lose the weight and am running around in daisy duke shorts and a crop top, well, "It's nobodies fault but my own."

ROFL! You go girl! Rock those Daisy Dukes!

Can I join? I like a good party!

At first the "tough-love" vs. cyberhugs dilemma kind of threw me. It seemed kind of self-punishing and furthermore asking for others to heap on more. But I don't think we're talking about self-punishment (the starting thread really did NOT go there), but I think instead, we addressed the misperception that seems to crop up now and then, that we have to choose between honesty(accountability) and compassion. I think we have to demand both of ourselves (both in how we treat others, and how we ask to be treated).

Honesty without compassion, is often just an excuse to be mean - to ourselves and others.

Compassion without honesty provides an excuse not to change and fosters self-pity, and powerlessness.

That's the one thought I want to keep in the forefront of my life. I am never powerless. That doesn't mean I can or will ever be perfect. I will fall and fail many times. Progress may be slower than I want or expect from myself. I'm not bad or stupid because of it, but I can never let myself use failing as an excuse for giving up, or putting in less effort than I am capable of.

Dang girl, you are so SMART!! :) There are times when compassion is the right way to go, but I know for me I need some strong words to motivate me to do the right thing.

Oh my God. Thank you! THANK YOU for post this thread! I was actually looking around for a different forum that practices tough love.

The way I see it, there are people who need to go easy on themselves. They need hugs and kinder words, they need to learn to have a little splurge when it comes to food every now and then in order to succeed. I am not that person.

I've lost weight before. And the only way I did it was be very tough and critical. I didn't develop any sort of "Oh my God, I hate my body" attitude after I hit goal. In fact, I was so proud of myself for being strict and sticking with it. I felt stronger. When I lost my first ten lbs, I was like, "Okay, you lost ten lbs. So what you want? A medal for it? Get your butt back to work!"

For me personally (and this doesn't work with everyone, of course) the only way to LOSE weight is to look at my self critically. If something I did was good, the next thing should be better. I am somewhat of a perfectionist. The only thing I'm not a perfectionist about is my own body. And that needs to change.

I followed a strict diet of healthy food and lost ten lbs fairly quickly just recently. Then I would look around the forum and think, "Hmmm, maybe I deserve a piece of cheesecake or something 'cuz I've been so good." Nuh uh. I am not going to trust myself with "bad" food ever again until I lose this weight. It's the only thing that's worked for me in the past: tough love and being strict.

I like honesty....it's like Dr. Phil. You don't see him coddling anyone...he tells it like it is. Kaplods is correct, when blended with compassion it's just the right mix.

I don't think you have to choose between honesty and compassion, and I don't think you need a "balance" between the two, because I don't think they're opposite sides of the spectrum. I see them as two completely seperate concepts completely. You can be dishonest with yourself AND self-punishing. You can be compassionate and accountable.

My goal is to be compassionate and accountable. I don't need "tough love," and I don't need "coddling." I can be proud of my successes, understanding and forgiving of my failures, and realistically examine where I've failed and how to improve. I don't have to look at any food or myself as "bad," (though I may decide a trigger food is best avoided, and by that I mean avoided probably for the rest of my life). I have to realistically set goals and work to reach them. If my progress isn't what I want it to be, I have to determine why - am I not working hard enough, or am I expecting more than I can realistically accomplish? One thing I can't do, is say I'm working as hard as I can, and I'm not losing (or not losing fast enough). That's denial, and self-pity isn't far behind.

For me, "boot camp," doesn't work because I would be very unhappy living my life that way. And that's the single most important thing I think I have learned about myself. I have been able to lose weight in the past, sometimes even large amounts of weight, but it was through methods I was not willing to spend my life doing. That is the balance I am still working on finding: trying to learn to make changes that I can incorporate into my life without becoming overwhelmed. I often tend to try to hold myself to standards that are so high, that I am doomed to fail. This is tough love gone wrong - because the love part was left out.

I'm not exactly a perfectionist because that would imply that I am able to achieve perfection or something close to it, however I am likely to set expectations of myself that I am unable to meet. Then feel helpless and hopeless, as a result. Unrealistic expectations are both dishonest AND punishing. If I set goals too high to accomplish, some part of me knows that I will fail, and yet I still punish myself for failing (and being worthless and lazy - again both lies).

Whoo this stuff is so complicated! Why is it so easy to be this crazy?

I'm drawn to these threads because there is something (in real life and on boards) mentioned over and over that drives me nutty!!

You have to explore your feelings ... find out why you over eat ... examine your thought as to why you feel ice cream will make you feel better .... :tantrum:

Is there a smilie that is a smelly wheelbarrow????

What I needed to do was 'the right thing, right now' and plan ahead to do the right thing next time too.

I still don't know why I ate. I still don't know why I was SOOOO sedentary.

I'm so glad to see this thread! I feel exactly the same as you Jen, that I need some tough love rather than cyber hugs. I haven't been posting a lot lately because I just haven't found a spot where I thought I was going to get the support I needed. Thanks for starting this thread Jen!!

I haven't read your other thread to see what you are doing now so I can't really comment on what would work for you. Something that I am taking off of my 5 year old son though...we were at Niagara Falls this week and I asked him if he wanted some fudge and he said no. When I asked why he said because he wasn't hungry. He is really teaching me so much about hunger and eating, more than what I think I am teaching him. He asks for food when he is hungry, eats until he is full and then stops regardless of how much food is left on his plate. So he eats like 6 or 7 times a day but that's what works for him. Considering how teeny tiny his stomach is that makes sense because it doesn't take much to fill it up. My husband gets annoyed sometimes when our son is hungry 2 hours after a meal but I don't because I'm happy that he eats healthy, doesn't eat or want a lot of junk, has tons and tons of energy, is happy and fit. I aspire to all those things so I need to start eating like my 5 year old! 6 or 7 small meals throughout the day.

Now I am horrible about exercise. NOt that I hate it but I am such a procrastinator and also that I am so busy with work, work around the house, errands etc etc that I end up too tired for exercise. That is one of those viscious circles. If I exercised more I'd have more energy for exercise! Anyway I need to start committing to something even if it is a walk around the block. Also I don't have a ticker for my weight going, I haven't weighed myself in weeks so that is my goal for tomorrow morning first thing then I will come here and start a new ticker.

How's everyone else doing today?

Jen, don't beat yourself up...i know exactly what you mean.
Never in my life I thought of that, until last week I attempted to go to the gym in the morning, and you know what it worked.
6am, I get up and I am too sleepy to even think of reasons, I brush my teeth, get dressed and go...Come back, and while I was there, on eliptical I have my whole day mapped out...and ready to act.
this week I began thinking how much easier in terms of planning morning one is, besides I then feel that evening are mine, and I am not deprived of fun of seeing friends or being on a computer!

give it a try...if you can?

p.s. I did have a problem sleeping entire week, and I really think because I am changing patterns, but on Thursday I slept like a baby...(never before had trouble sleeping btw).

I think the problem with losing weight is that we are much to lenient with ourselves. Every now and then a new diet comes up that says "No need to go hungry! Eat as much as you can!" Why? Why do we always need to be babied about everything? What, is it too much for us to stop eating when we're almost full? Are we that powerless?

I have an obsessive-compulsive eating disorder. I don't know when to stop. Actually, I do know when to stop, I just don't do it. I look around and so many people (not all) blame their food obsession on stress or some childhood problems they've had. And I've only met two or three people who have taken full responsibility for their weight (because like me, they like food too much) without blaming any outside factors. This country just IS like this. We have the "not my fault" attitude. Now granted, there are people who have gained weight due to stress and other factors, I'm not saying those people don't exist. But it seems like everyone refuses to accept responsibility for their weight gain; they don't say they've gain weight because they love to eat food and eat a lot of food, period.

I am one of those people who just love to eat and eat too much of it. Yes, I get stressed often (who doesn't?) but that stress doesn't make me want to eat, eat and eat. I know this because when I'm stressed I can't bring myself to eat--I lose my appetite completely.

A lot of people here are sensitive to the concept of tough love and brutal honesty. And I can see why. But for people like me who KNOW what they're doing wrong and still don't change ourselves, hugs and sweet words don't get the job done.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh... but it was needed to be said. It's been on my mind for the longest time. I'm afraid of conflict. I don't like to argue with people. But I feel I have the right to speak up my mind once in a while.

I think I sound a bit defensive in my last post. The point is, I wouldn't treat anyone that way unless they wanted me to. I'd be honest but not brutally, I would be compassionate but not baby them. I'm the worst advice-giver, though. People always take it the wrong way. So I don't give much advice here.

I just wanted to say that just because you haven’t found the need to delve into the emotional reasons why you eat doesn’t mean that other people don’t and that it is a bunch of :censored:. I envy people who can “just do it” but that hasn’t been the case for me. There were a lot of painful things lurking that I have needed to deal with. I have major scars from my childhood coupled with a lack of coping skills other than using food. I am still learning and have a long way to go, but I know I wouldn’t have gotten as far as I already have without exploring my feelings and why I eat. This doesn’t mean that I blame anyone for where I am – it is my job to heal those things for myself, but personally I find that looking at the emotional side is an intrinsic part of this journey for me.

It's an interesting issue. I found that I didn't have to do a lot of work figuring out why I ate and was fat before I started my weight loss journey, but along the way I certainly have learned a lot -- sometimes realizations I wasn't even searching for, at least not consciously. It has been helpful to have these realizations, but for me personally, it seems I didn't need them in order to begin.

One thing that fascinates me is how so many of us became fat but often for different reasons and leaving us with different issues. I see this in me and my husband all the time -- how we react so differently to different situations, or have different triggers and different ways to success. And yet, there are also many commonalities and many similar paths to success...

I know that's vague, but I hope it makes some sense...

Helplessness and hopelessness erode our sense of control and power over our own lives. It becomes a trap. I think understanding how and under which circumstances, and why we get caught in the trap certainly makes sense, and it's a good thing, as long as we don't use it as an excuse to stay in the trap.

Some people seem to need to be angry at themselves in order to take control of their lives, I guess. I don't understand it, because it's never worked for me. I'm a forgiving person, naturally. I can't hold a grudge against anyone, including myself. I've also, given my career choices, seen the worst of the worst in terms of human behavior. Seing what I have seen, considering myself "bad" for having difficulty with food, seems ridiculous. That doesn't mean that I think I'm not in control of my choices, and that if I want to make changes I have to work at it, but telling myself I'm babying myself if it is harder or takes longer than I expected. Jeez, it only fat!

I'm not diminishing the consequences of my actions. I've made some pretty poor choices, and messed up my health and ability to enjoy life, because I haven't worked hard enough or been persistent enough to control my weight. I've taken almost everything I can from myself, I'm not going to take any more away by punishing myself with a "boot camp" approach to weight loss. It didn't work when I was 75 - 85 lbs overweight (at 12), and it isn't going to work at 215 lbs overweight now.

Maybe it is that so many of us have gained weight in different amounts, at different ages, for different reasons. Maybe someone who has experienced "thin," or heck even "normal," (I'd even settle for obesity over morbid obesity at this point), needs to take a different approach than someone who has no memory of being at a weight that could be considered ok. I was very skinny until about 4 (though have no memory of this) and was fat to obese by kindergarten and morbidly obese soon after. It took amphetemines (yes, I was given amphetemines at 13 years old) for me to lose 70 lbs. It took more than 4 years to lose those 70 lbs, even so.

I don't "need" anyone's sympathy, but after years, and years, and years, and years (did I mention this was a very long time) of feeling "bad" and only getting fatter for it, I make no apologies for my weight anymore to anyone - even myself. Freeing myself from blame has been a miracle, but a slow one. But, a slow upward spiral towards a healthy weight and lifestyle, is better than a downward spiral of any speed.

I think I'm completely lost now. What exactly IS this thread about again? :dizzy:

I know why I eat. I can remember back to the early points in my life when I started using food to soothe and comfort myself. Although I know the difficulties that led to my abusing food, I don't blame anyone, not even myself, for the continuing reliance on food to deal with my difficult feelings. I do, however, take full responsibility for my weight. There's a difference, in my mind, between blaming/berating and taking responsibility. There is no one forcing me to overeat, yet I am not a horrible person in need of punishment because I do.

Just because I know and understand how my overeating habit formed and continues is not enough....but for me, it was a start.

This time, my weight loss journey is about being a friend to myself. I have spent years being a harsh drill instructor that would accept nothing less than perfection. It didn't work before, and it won't work now. Being a loving friend who chooses food that will nourish and sustain me is a much better bet. This friend doesn't berate me for the occasional slip-up, because perfection is impossible. Progress is. This friend understands that food has been used as a comfort and crutch, and it is now time to find other means of comfort that will truly sustain and enhance my life.

I don't think it's necessary for everyone to start out doing the emotional work that will enable them to break free from overeating, but I suspect that the successful, long-term weight loss maintainers have learned how to be an understanding, patient, and mature friend to themselves....whether that was their intention in the beginning or not. It can take a lot of different forms. It doesn't necessarily have to be overt and separate from their weight loss work, but it can be playing in the background as they learn to handle the stuff that life throws them without abusing food.

And...just to be clear...there's a difference between a friend and an enabler.

Well, I've decided this thread isn't for me after all. It looked promising but... it seems as if everybody is just ignoring what I'm saying or disagreeing with me but not directly so I don't even know if someone is arguing with me.

It feels like since I've decided to be super strict with myself, people think I'm going to talk myself down and be unappreciative of myself. That's not true. In the end, you should do what works best for you. What worked for one person will not necessarily work for another. I have no underlying stressful factors that made me fat and so, I feel I need to be more strict with myself, less lenient in order to succeed. It doesn't mean I'm going to love myself any less. I've lost respect for myself for my lack of control when it comes to food. I feel disgusted with myself not because I eat but because I don't stop when I should and eat more than would be considered healthy. Being strict with myself and critical makes me feel more self confident about myself.

Anyway, I thought this particular thread wasn't a discussion topic. I figured it was made for people who knew they needed tough love. If I knew it were a discussion topic, I wouldn't have joined in. I'm not so good with discussions, as you guys can see.

Maybe when the thread becomes an actual support group for people who do need a gentle kick in the butt and not hugs, I'll join in. Good luck to all you ladies who posted here :)

If I've taken part in hijacking this thread in any way y'all let me know and I'll get out of here. I came into the thread for being direct and honest about my weight loss (y'know = "no pity") - what works and what doesn't, without excuses, hopelssness or self-delusion (I eat only 200 calories a day, exercise 3 hours a day, and I still can't lose weight)"

That's what I mean my no pity, but it seemed to me that some posts were leading into the direction that no pity had to mean no compassion and draconian methods of weight loss (bread and water - woops bread is too high in carb, so I guess it's just water then, whips, chains, talking meand and calling nasty names, maybe a dungeon and black leather too (oops this is taking a direction some people might LIKE that, that's not good!).

If most of us here consider the definition of no pity to be more like the latter (without any of "those" feelings about it of course that might make it fun), I'll get out now, but if there's room for different definitions of a pity-free zone, hey I'm in.

Also, if we don't want any discussion, then let's decide what we DO want, and set some ground rules. I'm game!

Nobody here is talking about "only bread and water" and whips and chains stuff. Why do you get that idea?

Basically what I'm saying here is, "Eat one cookie not planned, that's okay. Eat any more than that, shame on me and don't nobody give me any hugs for that." Not literally of course, but you get the idea.

And relax, wouldja? Lol.

Honestly though, I think I'm better off keeping my diet private. I think that's best for me.

You ladies carry on. Discussions are more fun when I'm not a part of it. I take them too personally. And my opinions are usually taken the wrong way. Which kind of may be my own fault since I'm not very good at expressing them.

No hard feelings kaplods?

No hard feelings at all, I thought it was obvious that I was kidding about the bread and water and whips and chains. That's what I get for my weird sense of humor. I still tend to forget to add LOL to such things, and forget that it could be taken in a *****y voice with a scowl (and maybe a growl for good measure Grrrrr LOL!) Ok I'm getting punchy here.

My point was only that if I had misunderstood the purpose of the thread I was happy to stick to it, or bow out if the purpose didn't jive with my own philosopy. Because there are so many viewpoints, if we want a focused group with a clear and unified purpose, that's great, but we should probably decide what that is, so we can stay on track.

Rule number one of always joking in a sarcastic manner on the internet--always add an "lol" at the end of the sentence. lol. (lol!)

I'm learning, I'm learning, LOL! I feel weird using the emoticons and net abbreviations, like I'm trying to speak a language I don't understand.

It seems to me that threads go where the majority of participants need them to go. Having said that, here's my two cents (worth exactly what you paid for it :) ):

1. It is not OK for me to encoourage the mindset "one cookie is OK, more are not" because for me, there is no such thing as one cookie. The first cookie changes my thought process, somehow. The first cookie calls the next one, which calls the rest. I don't know why that's so. It just is. Maybe someday that will change. But for today, no cookie.

2. It is not OK for me to say "I can have the cookie after I lose all the weight. It might not be OK then, either. In the past, "OK, now I can have that" was a disastrous misconception that started me down the slippery slope to gaining it all back. This time, when I reach goal, I will experiment extremely cautiously, with one variable at a time.

3. This has been said before, using other words, but it isn't productive for me to analyze myself while I'm still eating, in order to make stopping less painful. Or even possible. It doesn't work for me because my ability to think clearly when my eating is out of control is much impaired. I just have to suck it up and quit self medicating for any reason. Then, my feelings and motivations will become crystal clear without me doing anything analytical at all. It seems to be an automatic by-product when I stop deliberately anaesthetizing myself. Yeah, it hurts. Too bad. Don't eat, talk in these threads about what's really going on, like Jen did, and with the wisdom and insight of the other people here, you'll see how to make it better in a positive, long term way, not an addicted, momentary way.

4. I eat because I'm an addict. Simple as that. I use food. I use it for everything. Any hurt, any confusion, any fear, any unwelcome feeling. My job is to not do that, and trust that causes and conditions will be revealed as I go along. So far, so good.

5. My eye is completely unreliable. I seem to need to weigh and measure, or I will be inaccurate in my calcuations. And for success, I need to know what the numbers really are. This will be especially critical when I reach goal, and have to know what I can safely have and what I can't without adverse effects.

6. If I try saying "oh, this butter is probably the same as that mayo, so I'll just plug those numbers in since I know them," I get further and further away from accuracy. It's best that I look up any value I haven't memorized, otherwise if I stop losing or worse, start gaining, I will not be able to pinpoint where I went off into the weeds and got lost.

7. Exercise. Hate it. It's hard. It's work. I get all sweaty. Ick. I'm allergic to work. Like the Nike ads say, Just Do It. It doesn't matter how I feel about it. I have to go to the gym anyway, if I want this to work. Study after study finds regular exercise and weight-loss maintenance to be firmly, inextricably linked. Denial won't change it.

I have paid dearly for each of these bits of knowledge. I found out what they cost me by pretending they weren't important. Oops! But that's how I learn and there's nothing wrong with that, just as a baby learns to walk by falling on her butt when she turns her body one way and sticks her foot out in some other direction. She learns how not to do it, and doing it right is just a process of elimination.

YMMV.

I don't like conflict either and should have known better than to actually be frank and honest. I'm sorry to have hurt feelings. I'm also sorry for the flippant tone of my post.

I would like, if I may, to harken back to Heather's post .... I found that I didn't have to do a lot of work figuring out why I ate and was fat before I started my weight loss journey, but along the way I certainly have learned a lot -- sometimes realizations I wasn't even searching for, at least not consciously. It has been helpful to have these realizations, but for me personally, it seems I didn't need them in order to begin .... she always says things better than I do.

Susan -- You are a great support to so many people here!! Please don't apologize for being frank! :D (I have had to learn to use smilies too!) And thanks for the compliment -- I always think other people say things so much more clearly than I do! :)

And you know what? I think to post is to eventually write something that someone is going to disagree with or take the wrong way. It's the nature of the beast. I know I've done it. Many times. Luckily, most of the time we can all work it out. Maybe we just agree to disagree, but maybe we're lucky and come to further and deeper understanding of each other. Ironically, perhaps, I think the latter is more likely to happen when we do try to be honest with each other, but to temper that honesty with empathy and understanding.

This is still a great thread, though Jen will have to tell us if it's the one she wanted when she started it!

I know we've had some disagreements in this thread, but has anyone had hurt feelings? If so, maybe I missed it (or it's another one of those time where a tone/emotion in a post have come across differently to different readers?)

Isn't honesty going to mean, we risk disagreeing with each other, and that's ok, right? Wasn't that some of the point of this thread, to risk not being PC once in a while, even if we disagree what works best for each of us?

That's one of the things I was kind of looking for in this thread, a place that being blunt, and disagreeing with one another was going to be ok, a true soundingboard for different ideas and opinions, without anyone saying you're wrong (well maybe "I think you're wrong," or "that wouldn't work for me").

I have been reading the thread because the viewpoints are so intriguing to me. I would like to be frank, though - since it seems like the thing to do here. I'm reading a book that discusses a problem that I never recognized I had. Instead of telling people what I want and need, I act unhappy until they notice my unhappiness and ask me what's wrong, then act unhappy until they successfully fix me. And they're never successful at it because I won't let them! It's a crazy way to try to communicate.

Susan - I don't think anyone was offended by anything that you said. I don't think I've ever responded directly to you, but I do really enjoy your posts on many of the forums. You are so insightful, and as a successful loser and now maintainer, I love to have the opportunity to learn from you. While I personally feel that it can be helpful for some people (read: me) to understand why they eat, I think your viewpoint has a lot of merit to it. BattleAxe also makes a great point that it's really hard to understand the underlying causes of overeating when you're still using food to numb and hide those causes. Please continue to be frank and honest. It is so interesting and enlightening.

Colleen - I gotta say I agree with you and wyllen. I believe that everyone who has posted has done so in good faith, but there are a variety of interpretations as to why the thread exists. It may have been intended to be an accountability thread, and the discussion may have enhanced the parameters for that thread. I'm not sure I'm clear on it. Clarification is needed, and I'm sure Jen will do a great job clarifying.

Dawn2Dusk - Despite your disclaimer, your posts are articulate and insightful. Just reading through the posts, I don't think anyone would agree that discussions are more fun without you. ;) If, however, they are not helpful for you in your journey, I understand why you would choose to discontinue your participation in them. But here's the "tough love" part - from me to you. Please understand that it is not intended to hurt. If you need something different or would find something different to be useful in your weight loss journey, it is your responsibility to ask for it rather than just threaten to take your toys and go home. For example, I can't tell you how many times I have been angry with my husband in the past for bringing me candy bars when he doesn't know I'm trying to make healthier choices. Kind of a lame example, I know, but I am finally understanding that I have to tell him what I want and need before I expect him to provide it for me. I would urge you to wait until the thread is further defined. Then, if it's useful, please participate. If it's not what you need, create a new one and carefully define the purpose of that one. I have never met a group of more caring, nurturing individuals than the ones on this site. Please use this resource if it makes your journey easier. We love to have you here.

LaurieDawn, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think whether this is to be an accountability thread, or discussion, or combination, we need to reign in the focus, and set some guidelines.

Jen, since you started the thread, I think you are by default, if not appointment, our fearless leader.

You can lay down the law, or give us guidelines for hashing it out!

Since we've muddled it up a bit, maybe once it's decided we can reopen the thread, with the guidelines posted in the first post of the new thread.

Just a little note, I would love a thread where we could post individual goals (maybe each of us weekly) and by the next week we would post whether or not we met the goal, and what our new goal was for the upcoming week. If this is a thread where we could do that, great, if not I'll work on starting one.
If we do decide to do something like that, I don't care whether I get hugs, or growls from y'all.

For me, it isn't about the content of the feedback. I mean I love y'all and everything, but your approval or disapproval of me doesn't affect me all that much y'know? But, it's easy to get complacent when you know no one is looking over your shoulder. I mean if I cheat, no one is going to know but me. And I guess I could lie to y'all, but what would be the point in that! But, if I know I'm going to report in, and have promised to be honest, it might keep the goal more front in center in my mind. And it would get embarassing after a while to keep setting goals and not accomplishing them.

Oh yeah, I forgot to pult LOL in there where it was needed, so reread my post and throw a few in here and there. LOL!

Ah the delightful Jilly!
This is something like the conversation I just had with my husband ....
I laughed out loud in delight.
Dh asked what was going on.
me ... Here's Jillybean 720. I adore this gal. She's smart, funny, well spoken .... I want her thin! I just really really like her .... "
DH ... is this the one (he's not familiar with the term thread) about being frank and honest?
me ... Yup.
DH ... then tell her.

So while I'm at it ... Nancy ... honey ... you exercise with an uncommon dedication, it is absolutely inconceivable that you haven't had uncommon dedication to your health, well-being and weight loss, you have lost an extraordinary amount of weight. Do not envy anyone! You, baby, have got it!

In the other threads you mentioned, discussions crop up here and again, without a problem, so I still think maybe some guidelines still are in order.
Maybe because no one is arguing the definition of 300+ or who feels comfortable belonging to the thread (Though I remember a discussion or two cropping up in the calorie counter thread heading in that direction).

A mission statement anyone? (kidding - we kind of need one, but boy do I shudder at the word - I heard it too often when I was working, it seemed we needed a mission statement for everything but going to the bathroom).

Ah!

I thought the other thread was for the long, drawn out discussions about the how's and why's, and this was just the non-pity party thread. In other words, this was the place you discussed your gains or didn't lose weight for the week, and others would, er, let you have it for not taking care of yourself. No holds bar, no coddling.

Longer posts are kind of killing the purpose of this thread and could chase folks away that just want a place to discuss their poor eating habits and need a kick in the butt. I don't think this was Jen's idea of what she wanted in this thread.

I could be wrong, though.

I use "LOL" every once in awhile, because I DON'T want to offend someone who may take something the wrong way. Smilies don't always generate what the poster is trying to say, either- they, too, can be misunderstood.

Okay guys, after reading all of your posts, this is NOT what I intended!

I'm going to start another thread, and list some guidelines I would like to use. And if I see the thread going off topic, I will steer it back on the right direction.

Look for the thread titled "Frank and Honest Support (A Pity-Free Zone).