I think we really do have to stop talking about "THEM" and what "THEY" do. People are people wherever you go. Some cultures are different from others, but I have seen and heard plenty of rude comments right here in the USA from people of all colors, nationalities, educational backgrounds, religions, and orientations.
This doesn't mean to justify rudeness. It is terrible to have others make rude comments about one's weight or anything else! But it does mean it's time to STOP making comments about "THOSE PEOPLE," whoever you see them to be.
"Japanese people can be rude and cruel" is, in my opinion, a little inflammatory, and a bit unfair given the cultural standards in Japan.
I think it would be more accurate to say something like "Japanese cultural standards and traditions permit a level of speech about personal topics, like weight, that is rude to those accustomed to American cultural standards and traditions, which are more prohibitive in talking about such personal topics". Of course, there are also rude people everywhere, but in this case, it may not even be rudeness, just cultural difference, or it may be some combination of both (ie, what that individual did was somewhat rude, but not nearly as rude as it would be according to American cultural norms and standards).
In this case, being aware of cultural standards might have helped to keep your anger at this down, but being accustomed to American standards, probably wouldn't have kept your feelings from being hurt either way. Still, it's something to be aware of when interacting with anyone (and not even just with those who come from a different national culture, but even people who were raised in different homes...perspectives on rudeness are fairly individual, even if they do line up along some lines according to culture/nationality). And then, as others have pointed out, some people are just rude no matter how they were raised.
I'm sorry that this encounter hurt your feelings, though. That always stinks, regardless of whether it was done intentionally or unintentionally.
Sorry to have offended some members who have read my post, I was only trying to let screamingfatgirl know that she is not alone and this has happened to me as well and let her know how I chose to deal with it. You are right though that people around the world are just as diverse (in personality) as we are here in Canada/Usa etc. I personally get offended living in Canada and hearing about how rude American's are (as I am one). I will try to think of this next time.
I in no way hold the way I was treated by some against all of the Cambodian people!! In fact, I would love to go back and LIVE there some day!! I will tell one story about the kindness of the people of Cambodian people to redeem myself, if possible.
When we were touring the ancient temples in Siem Reap, I was exhausted! I was starting to get dizzy and we had run out of water and needed to go back to the car. Another couple who overheard my husband speaking to his uncle in Khmer about me came over and gave me the water that they had. It was the sweetest, most surprising and amazing thing anyone had done for me in a long time and I almost cried.
I have had people say horribly rude and hurtful things to me here in Canada as well. No matter who says it, from what culture or religion it is always hurtful, but I must try to remember that that is just the opinion of THAT person!! Thanks for putting me into check!
I think Mandalinn is point on. I went to China and I have to say it is definitely a different culture than here in the US. A culture may be blunt or may say things a certain way that we aren't used to here. I've also experienced parts of Europe and South America and again, slightly different cultures.
If someone has a bad experience in a country, I feel for them but I also wouldn't make a vast judgment about an entire country/people based on those experiences.
I didn't feel like anyone was trying to be offensive when I read through this thread, though I can see where it may SEEM that way.
I'm sorry that support for you has taken the back burner, screamingfatgirl. It's horrible to have someone say things that hurt you and to do so right to your face is even harder . Regardless of WHO it was that said it, I know it still hurt. Just remember that you're doing what you know you should be doing & at the end of the day, the only person you need to please is YOU.
I didn't feel like anyone was trying to be offensive when I read through this thread, though I can see where it may SEEM that way.
I'm sorry that support for you has taken the back burner, screamingfatgirl. It's horrible to have someone say things that hurt you and to do so right to your face is even harder . Regardless of WHO it was that said it, I know it still hurt. Just remember that you're doing what you know you should be doing & at the end of the day, the only person you need to please is YOU.
This.
Sorry you had to experience that, screamingfatgirl. No matter who or where it's coming from, it always hurts to not be accepted.
How you were treated is really rather shameful. I'm sorry that people feel it's appropriate to behave so unkindly towards you. If it were me, I'd flip them off and see if they understood that little gesture.
On the other hand, confronting people more understandingly helps as well. "That was very rude of you. Why would you think that that type of mean behavior is acceptable? You're an adult. Not a child. I may not fit your ideal of what a person should look like; but I can assure you I'm a real person with real feelings, and you hurt them very badly. *****."
So sorry you got your feelings hurt. I`m an ESL teacher - comments about weight and about food consumption (in general) are not to be taken offensive like they would in other parts of the world. It is acceptable in Japan (as well as Korea, China, etc). It is not a taboo subject in that culture.
I'm sorry to hear what you are having to deal with! Like luckymommy said it's more acceptable here since it's more common to be overweight in the states. I'd be so scared to travel to an Asian or even European countries since they often look down on foreigners, and if we are overweight that adds more to the "fat American" stereo type. It seems like anywhere we go beauty/thinness gives us instant access to acceptance and friendships.
I've been around quite a few Japanese people, and I know some can be two-faced, but some are all around nice. There is good and bad people in all cultures, so don't let the bad treatment get to you or get you bitter, just build a thick skin so it can roll off. Keep coming here when you need to talk.
Tagan, It's good to know at 129lbs and 5'8" you pass being thin there..I was worried at first reading your post!
"but the truth is that they can be very, very cruel when they think you won't comprehend what they're doing, when you are viewed as powerless (because you're alone and in their cultural setting) or when you're not looking/paying attention."
I took great offense to this statement. now whether offense was MEANT or not is not my issue. I think it's statements like THIS that breed hatred
I can't for the life of me figure out what you find so hateful in that statement. I find your response to be the one that is hateful. I have not only experienced the above humiliation myself, but have witnessed it being done to others within my own culture.
I have been in situations where people are talking about me in another language(any language), thinking that I can't understand what they're saying. I'm greek-american and have often worked with members of my culture who perpetuate this kind of behavior. In restaurants where I waited tables the runner would say things like "take this plate to that beached whale over there." Just because nobody around could understand what he said didn't mean he should say it.
So what if it's acceptable in other cultures to make fun of fat people? Do you really believe that overweight people in other countries don't have feelings, or that their feelings don't matter?
Being hurtful, judgemental, and rude in any language is unacceptable.
ringmaster - don't be scared to travel to other countries! I was 280 lbs when I went to China and had a great time. I've been to Europe as well.
Wannabeskinny - I don't take it as 'it is ok to make fun of fat people' when other countries are blunt about weight/size. In certain parts of the world, obese people are very rare and not usually seen so it isn't unusual to see someone stare. If someone basically says "wow you are fat", they may not think of that as hateful but it could just be a different culture that says things bluntly while we'd view it as hateful/hurtful, they may not.
As far as people being two-faced, I've encountered lots of people who are two-faced and I didn't have to step outside of my country to do it.
It's easy for people to misunderstand when that is their wish. I've lived in Japan for 20 years and I doubt anyone can comprehend what that is like unless they've been here for that time as well. The reputation is that the Japanese are very polite people, but they are very xenophobic. I was speaking to the image vs. the reality.
That xenophobia manifests when they think you won't get it. There is a cultural ethic which is prevalent in the culture - tatamae and honne. This is the "public face" and "true face" that I mentioned. Stating something is the case here does not mean that it is not the case elsewhere. That being said, I sincerely doubt that clerks are insulting customers about their weight in such a bald-faced manner in the U.S. Additionally, I am certain that it is exceptionally rare that a Japanese customer would be insulted in such a manner. Clearly, I was insulted because of the thought that the insult would not be comprehended. I'm not sure how this can be seen as offensive to the Japanese. I've had more than enough years and experiences under my belt with this sort of behavior to make an assertion that it is not atypical.
For the record, it is not a part of Japanese culture to make fun of customers. This is not a cross-cultural misunderstanding. In fact, the Japanese take the idea that "the customer is king" deadly serious and complaints are treated like the end of the world by the management. They bend over backwards when a customer is unhappy.
If people want to take what I said out of the context of how it was presented and be offended, so be it. I can't be responsible for the desire on the part of some people to willfully misunderstand what I said. I won't be seeking support in this forum any further as I can find plenty of other places where people cherry-pick parts of larger statements in order to become indignant so they can find reason to judge and find themselves on the higher ground. Being angry makes a lot of people happy, as does judging others without cause.
Peace, people. Happy lives to you, and may you be treated with more respect than I just was.
Last edited by screamingfatgirl; 11-21-2009 at 09:16 AM.
Cultures differ and what is acceptable and normal in one culture can be very different in another culture. I attempted to point that out in a previous post and offended someone,. I am sorry for that as no offense was meant. I was merely pointing out that what is acceptable in one culture may not be considered acceptable in another. All Asians are not alike. Each culture has their own cultural norms. I live in a city in California that is very culturally diverse. We have many Asians here and as a rule we get along well but sometimes the cultural differances are hard to understand, and I am sure they think the same of us.
I think we can definitely speak to experiences but I think vast generalizations about a culture/people should be avoided. I also think we have to understand that not all cultures are the same, even within the US, cultural norms can vary from region to region.
I am sorry that screaming had a bad experience and no one should be subjected to that.
. Regardless of WHO it was that said it, I know it still hurt. Just remember that you're doing what you know you should be doing & at the end of the day, the only person you need to please is YOU. 
