Camryn Mannheim (an obese woman) did play a lawyer on a TV show. can't remember the name of it. Lara Flynn Boyle (very skinny) was a DA on the show, so they ran the gamut. She's an exception to the rule, I think.
There was also a heavy male lawyer on one of those shows.
Maybe we have to be of a certain age to remember Perry Mason. How about the show "Cannon"? I think the actor's name was William Conrad. I think he died, too. He was really big.
Having worked as a business consultant and as a nonprofit consultant, I can honestly say that I have never encountered a work place where appearance was not an issue, although whether it universally determines success is highly debatable!
I honestly believe that managing your appearance is just as important as managing any other work behavior. When I was first entering the work world, I was told by mentors to maintain a healthy weight, stylish hair, flattering make-up, good clothes and an overall attractive appearance- not because it would guarantee my success but because it certainly wouldn't be the cause of my failure. I've held on to that and set a size/weight I simply will not go above without a fight...
I have a thought on this - when I was tall, thin, young, in my 20s I did better in my own business then now - older, a bit overweight. So I'm wondering how much of it is self confidence? I mean when I was thinner, I could wear anything, a gunny sack and look good, I could wear clothes well. I felt good about myself and my looks. People could feel that self confidence and reacted to it in a positive way. Now I feel older and the weight makes me feel frumpy. I don't have the bounce I used to have. And I don't have the energy. Basically I'm carrying around 30+ lbs that I didn't back then. I think a lot of this is the SECRET, the book. Who you are and what others think of you is a direct reflection of your thoughts. If you are thinking, I'm overweight, I don't fit in, I feel bad about myself etc. then others will feel that - it puts you in a different wave length then the positive movers and shakers of the world.
I reread the book last night "Does this Make Me Look Fat?" and I also agree with the author, people make judgments quickly about weight and dress. Our weight and how we dress reflects who we are. I don't think most people MEAN TO judge overweight people, but they do. Perhaps they think being over weight is a sign of self control and discipline, is it? I know it's harder for me to keep the weight off as I get older, but too at the times when I've gained weight I've lacked self discipline in my eating/exercising as well as at work. So for myself a bit of it is true.
I'm in marketing, I spend time analyzing my clothes and what to wear, because dressing right, knowing makeup gives me an edge - that first image that people judge me by. I try to look put together, even working at home, because how I dress affects how I work. I've lost a bit of weight lately, my clothes are fitting better, I'm feeling more confident in clothes, thus more confident in work.
I work from home. Clients only see me VERY rarely, and the people in my office see me maybe 4 times a year. And I STILL started being treated as a professional only when they knew I'd lost weight. I think I am the example that proves it isn't 100% a difference in confidence. I had gone from a size 22 to a size 14, and in between, NO ONE in my office had seen me. I showed up for the office party and everyone saw the smaller me, and the VERY NEXT WEEK, noticed a marked difference in how people were treating me. It was actually quite odd. I got promoted shortly thereafter, actually, and always wondered if the weight had something to do with it (not that I didn't earn it, I did, I just don't know if I earned it earlier than I actually got it).
There was also a heavy male lawyer on one of those shows.
Maybe we have to be of a certain age to remember Perry Mason. How about the show "Cannon"? I think the actor's name was William Conrad. I think he died, too. He was really big.
I'm too young to be "of a certain age"!!!!!! (Arent I? Oh heck) Does noone have cable? Perry Mason is still in reruns ad nauseum
I think I am the example that proves it isn't 100% a difference in confidence.
I don't think it's ever going to be proven to be 100% either way. There will always be jerks who think fat=stupid/lazy, there will always be stereotyping, and there will always be people who judge even unintentionally or subconsciously. Yet, there will also always be those who are open-minded, accepting, and results-oriented as opposed to superficial.
I haven't had the full range of experiences, as I've never been below 250 pounds in my adult life/professional career. I have had an insane amount of success for my age despite my weight. I wonder if I'll have even more when I'm thinner...
Oh, and while I know the name "Perry Mason," I certainly wouldn't be able to pick the character out of a line-up! And I don't think I've ever seen any of those re-runs being played around here. I did, however, used to watch Matlock every day with my grandma when I was little--he was no beanpole, either
Last edited by jillybean720; 12-03-2007 at 02:58 PM.
I think my point is.....(do I have a point?) is that appearance is important to a degree. People WILL make judgements about you based on your appearance. Some people are smart enough to reevaluate based on getting to know you, some arent.
But I dont think you can uniformly say -"thinner is better, and the THINNER the better". I think there is a range of weights that people are comfortable with. For a lot of people I think "middle weights" are the most comfortable Hairstyle, fashion choices, makeup choices, all of them together can make an impression, good or bad.
I really wasnt joking when I said female engineers better not look too good. I was asked in an interview if I really wanted to apply for this job because "you'll have to get dirty and you cant wear nice clothes". Heck, I was the top performing engineer in my group and the vice president stopped me in the hall one day and said "You cut your hair. Its about time, you aren't a cheerleader anymore" Note : I had NEVER been a cheerleader and the guy was a royal jerk and I immediately started growing my hair back out. I actually didnt WANT to be promoted so it was a win-win. But of all the things he ever talked to me about...my appearance was the ONLY time he initiated a conversation in passing.
How people judge you is about their own experiences some people think fat means lazy and not as smart, some thing fat means too dedicated to work to take care of himself. Some see thin as disciplined, some worry that a thin woman is superficial and will spend too much time worrying about her appearance to get down to business.
All you can control is how YOU feel about you and what you bring to the table. Appearance is something, but it rarely trumps performance over the long haul of the career.
Didn't that former model on her tv show do a deal one day? She dressed as a fat person that was frumpy? Just to prove that people would treat her differently? Why can't I think of her name? I read about it in a magazine, they showed pictures of her... I'm SURE it was like night and day for her.
On the flip side of this I think looking "too good" can be a downfall in business for a female... when I was younger men used to hit on me to test me, I never dressed other then professional but I was skinny. I think they wondered, so can she do her job?
Every so often someone posts a thread about fat health care providers or skinny health care providers as if health care professionals should be exempt from our obesigenic environment. :-) I work with a lot of midwives whose weight range from totally fit (long distance cyclist/spin class instructor) to morbidly obese and I do not perceive that our patients seek us out or treat us differently based on our size. Our patients bond with us as individuals. Actually, now that I am considering it, I wonder if some women do prefer chunkier midwives, as it is hard enough to be the size of a barn at 40 weeks without being around a smoking hot midwife (not that they will ever have to worry about that extreme with me!).
I, of course, am a Pollyanna, and I think (hope!) that the people I work with take me on my many nonphysical merits.
I think you have a point midwife ...maybe unintentionally..that what your career is could matter. I think people have a preconceived notion of what a "doctor" or a "lawyer" looks like and will unconsciously drift to that norm.
horsey - I think I know what you're talking about - it was on The Tyra Show.
I've met successful people of all sizes. I think your overall presentation (a nice outfit, well-kept hair, good but subtle make-up, confidence, well put together) probably matters more than your weight does. In response to the original poster, it sickens me to know that some women get promotions for being underweight, though I WOULD really like to know the actual weight of this woman. Is she truly underweight or just slim?
In my opinion, fat women losing weight for a promotion in some shallow organizations (like the one the OP is part of) is just another bit of conforming to survive. For instance, I've found that CONVENTIONAL looking women are MUCH more successful in the corporate world. I think I'd be ugly if I grew out my hair, took out my piercings, and dressed professionally 24/7. The only way I've ever been skinny is with starvation - now I'm very FIT but no one ever calls me thin because I'm too "solid". I'm dreading the way I'm going to look at the interviews I have coming up for better positions, because my hair looks like crap when it's combed down. I even thought about wearing a wig if it would up my chances
I'm guessing it would vary from industry to industry. Personally, I've never experienced problems when I was gaining weight. But my work is behind the scenes type of stuff, and once you get to a certain level, there are more jobs than there are qualified candidates. At my last job, I did run into problems when I lost weight of all things. But 2 of the 3 people involved had their own weight issues. I thought it was just me, but the other person they singled out for scapegoating had lost over 60 pounds on WW and they tried to start rumors she had an eating disorder! As well as microscopically pick apart our work. But it turned out for the best, it drove me out of there and to my current job, which is a much better fit.
In addition to what people have said about self-confidence, I wonder how much it varies with how people choose to dress. Personally, having yo-yoed from 120-250 (at 5'8), even though the need for new clothes is more when I've gained weight (a little baggy is less noticeable than a hulk like straining of clothes , psychologically, it's been a lot easier/more enjoyable to buy clothes when I've lost weight. When I had to buy bigger clothes, I bought only the minimum and was very price conscious. Unless I was interviewing for a job, in which case, I'd spend more for a good interview suit if nothing I had fit properly. But with smaller clothes, I've felt freer to treat myself a bit. And for me, weight gain has coincided with stressful times in my life. I'm more likely to get the nails done, keep up with the hair, etc. when I'm not stressed out.
and the guy was a royal jerk and I immediately started growing my hair back out. I actually didnt WANT to be promoted so it was a win-win. But of all the things he ever talked to me about...my appearance was the ONLY time he initiated a conversation in passing. 
, psychologically, it's been a lot easier/more enjoyable to buy clothes when I've lost weight. When I had to buy bigger clothes, I bought only the minimum and was very price conscious. Unless I was interviewing for a job, in which case, I'd spend more for a good interview suit if nothing I had fit properly. But with smaller clothes, I've felt freer to treat myself a bit. And for me, weight gain has coincided with stressful times in my life. I'm more likely to get the nails done, keep up with the hair, etc. when I'm not stressed out.
