Men don't seem to have a problem with this. They can say no without explanation or justification without being considered rude, but women are taught to feel the need to justify their no, as if they don't have the right to decline unless they have a "good enough" reason.
Truer words were never spoken. And I'm working on this one myself.
I agree that women's social skills tend to be more complex than men's, but that isn't necessarilly a virtue. If we weren't so adept at polite fictions, subtle jabs, backhanded compliments, thinly veiled insults, and prejudicial judgements l, we wouldn't need to ask "was this rude or polite?"
If you are wondering, chances are you're putting to much thought into it. Politeness shouldn't be a standard by which we judge others or ourselves rude for saying the less than perfect thing.
I've found that rudeness is something that you frequently find when you're looking for it, and rarely find when you're not, and when you do find it, the r he's no need to ask - it's obvious.
If the person meant to be polite, or even neutral, then they ARE being polite, because politeness is always about the effort and intention. Otherwise it's just a secret set of rules to judge others by. When in doubt, the polite thing to do is assume the best of intentions, or at least refrain from assuming the worst.
Men don't seem to have a problem with this. They can say no without explanation or justification without being considered rude, but women are taught to feel the need to justify their no, as if they don't have the right to decline unless they have a "good enough" reason.
I wouldn't agree with this. Men ARE rude in many cases and it is noticeable. We just hold women more accountable for it. The guy who said that to me in a professional manner was rude, it didn't matter whether it was a man or a woman who said it.
I don't think its a man vs woman thing. Last time I checked DH is a man, and not rude or brainless in the communication department. He is also in a professional position. He does not have foot in mouth disease simple because he is male. If he did, I doubt we would have worked out as a couple. He is well thought out and expressed himself as such. He does manage to do it in fewer words than me though. I too have spent my life being the girl in the guy crowd. I didn't even have a bride's maid at my wedding, my best friend was male, and not gay, case anyone is wondering. I have always hung with the guys. Men have more direct communication, but they are not more rude. There is a difference. I don't excuse poor communication in men just because they are men, because the ones I have befriended over the years were still well spoken. But like I said, I've noticed they can say things in a less drawn out way.
*I* am not concerned about others using this professionally. I think in this little thread, this tiny sample of people, enough people have expressed it is not a professional phrase to give thought to there might be many people in the workforce that agree. I think it would be in an applicants best interest to not use that phrase, since it is not always received well.
On a personal level, I wouldn't use it because I wouldn't just tell so my friends "I don't feel like it"...some might think that's being "real" but I think its rude. Its a tiny bit of effort in my opinion to not sound like a donkey behind in the face of an invitation to something. I'm not someone that observes a lot of social graces by any means, but I have no issue using a different reply to something if it means sparing a few feelings. In the grand scheme of things, it seems worth it for people I care about. If its not something that bothers them, then it won't matter either way.
Last edited by GlamourGirl827; 02-26-2015 at 04:44 PM.
Hmmm...I can see how that phrase would come off as rude but I'm also hyper aware of these things (I work in public relations/communications so its kind of my job to analyze messaging and the way certain phrases can be interrupted). I don't think she meant it in a rude way but personally I would never use that phrase when declining a job offer.
Hi, I agree too. I don't have the experience you do on that area but I can see how that could be taken as rude in a work scenario, any other scenario and it would have been most likely fine.
I can see why it sounds rude. It definitely DOES imply that the person doesn't have a reason for not doing it other than they don't want to. But when viewed objectively- why does anyone need to defend their reason for not doing something for you? So I'm with the others that say this is not worth getting upset over. Kaplods is right that it's become a societal norm for people to have to give a reason to say no, and the reality is that no one should have to defend themselves over that. A simple no should be okay. Maybe everyone should start doing this and a lot less white lies will be told.
A simple no should be okay. Maybe everyone should start doing this and a lot less white lies will be told.
This was exactly the point I was trying to make.
A refusal shouldn't be considered impolite simply because it comes without the "right" justification or because it wasn't worded in a way that is ideal to the requester.
I wasn't saying that men couldn't be considered rude, just that they're usually not considered rude (ESPECIALLY among each other) simply for declining an invitation or request.
Men aren't generally expected to justify and explain absolutely every decision (except sometimes by women in their lives). They can say no without having to have an elaborate or "important" reason that they're also obligated to share.
I think we still assume that men's time is more valuable than a woman's, so if they say, "I can't," we take them at their word, and assume their reasons, even if they're not offered are "good enough," but as women we're so often expected to provide proof.
There are men AND women who feel obligated to always say "yes," but women tend to be viewed more harshly for saying no, even WITH a good reason.
We can't just say no and keep our reasons private, we have to say. "I'd LOVE to, (whether we mean it or not) and then prove it by listing our reasons AND make up for it in some way, such as offering future service.
Sure a no given with a scowl or a profanity is rude, but why isn't a simple no considered polite. Why don't we just assume that a woman would help if she could, so if she says no, she has a good reason and the right to keep her reasons to herself, even from a good friend.
To me, it seems like a person should give everyone, but especially friends and family the benefit of the doubt, and accuse rudeness only when there's strong evidence of hostile intent.
Heck, no!
Do you think I have nothing better to do?
You want me to do what, are you out of your mind?
Those are rude.
No, Thank you.
I'll have to pass.
I'd rather not.
Those shouldn't be considered rude (whether coming from a man or woman) unless they're accompanied by an overtly hostile tone or nasty facial expressions such as unmistakable stinkeye/eyerolling....
Rudeness should be a term reserved for ill intent, not something that can be easily done unintentionally.
If you have any doubt that the words or actions were meant with ill will, then I think it's unfair to call rudeness.
Standards of etiquette also vary tremendously from culture to culture, and even subculture to subculture, so unless you know the person shares your own version of proper behavior, judging others for what they might have meant, is ridiculous.
Personally, I believe that in any situation in which asking a person for their reasons would seem rude, then it's also rude in that situation to expect the person to give their reason.
In most situations, I think an unexplained no (coming from a man or woman) should suffice without attaching any judgement.
If you don't trust your friends to say no for good reasons, then they're not really your friends; and if you require them to prove their reasons good enough, you're not really theirs.
It just sounds rude to me...If I were invited out with friends, I'd say "I can't that night, I'm sorry." Perhaps it is also that I feel it is professional communication to include an apology in a decline. But I do this with personal invites too. "I'm going to have to pass" sounds like something you do to dessert, not something you do in the work place. However I've had plenty of experience with professional positions, and I have never heard this used in that setting either. This women says in her profile she has been a homemaker for the past 20 something years and is just looking for some work. Ironically the family member that uses this phrase has never worked outside the home.
I don't like it in the personal setting (but I'm sure its fine in that way), but like NYFLAgirl said, I would never use it professionally!
I don't see irony here...
Or is this Alannis Morisette styled irony? Does she specify the kind of work she is looking for as being a homemaker for hire? Or is she just looking for work?
Anyways, not the phrasing I would use but it doesn't seem impolite to me. Personally I would just say "No thank you" as it is a less verbose version of the same thing.
I don't see irony either, but I can see why women who are homemakers might be more likely to use the phrase rather than the others OP suggested and said she would have preferred -
Homemakers and women who work from home (as well as women who are retired or otherwise not working outside the home) often are made to feel that their time is not as valuable as that of men and women working outside the home - or at the very least that their schedule is so flexoble that they should be more able to say yes (or more obligated to justify their no).
Even though I had studied this (BA & MA psychology degrees), I didn't experience this myself until I became disabled, and had certain friends and family members (and occasionally even casual acquaintences) asking me to run errands "because I was free," and being surprised and even offended that I couldn't always say yes.
Once I was even asked, "couldn't you reschedule?" when my reason for being unable to accept a social invitation was a doctor's appointment (the event wasn't a funeral or wedding, or even a birthday, just a casual lunch with a family member who lives only 30 minutes away).
I did consider that a bit rude, but from it and similar experiences I learned that when you're schedule is your own, many people expect more from you, and some (without seeming to realize it) expect you to be at their beck and call unless you have an excuse that is a cut above the excuses ordinarily deemed sufficient for people with "real jobs."
As a defense, I think many of us have learned to stop giving reasons (especially to those who aren't close friends and family members) simply because no reason is guaranteed to be deemed good enough.
I can understand how someone might be offended when a close friend or family member would give an unexplained refusal, but in an email, from a stranger on a job search site? Or even a coworker or casual acquaintance?
"I'll have to pass," might not be the most professional, sophisticated, or ingratiating response, but I'd hardly expect that of someone posting for odd jobs on a job-search site.
I think it sounds rude because it's text on the screen rather than a verbal conversation. Things can sound much more rude than people intend.
Only if it was typed as follows:
"i thnk i wll hv3 2 pss"
I have never looked at any book and automatically assumed it to be rude. Text can easily convey intent when written well and is found in context. No emoticons and lol's required.
