I probably go to too many people for advice. I go to freakin' everybody, not just y'all, lol. I go to 5000 different people and get told 5000 different things (or 5000 different variations of the same thing) and it ends up overwhelming me. I guess I get so bent on doing everything "right" because I feel like if I do something wrong people will look down on me and I don't want that, so I feel liek I need all the help I can get to do something "right".
It's kinda like dieting: people tell you not to eat junk food because it's bad for you, but then when you're faced with junk food, you really really want it but because someone told you it was bad, you feel like you can't have it. And then you feel deprived, so you have it anyway because you don't think it's so wrong and then you don't feel deprived, but then afterward you feel guilty because of the fear that something bad's gonna happen to you for having the cookie, even though you know there's nothing really wrong with eating junk food in the first place, as long as you don't let it become a problem.
^^ that right there is how every thought gets processed in my mind. Every one, for every situation. Everything is made complicated and it's like my brain won't allow me to just do things and not worry about them.
Last edited by mimsyborogoves; 09-23-2013 at 11:17 PM.
Even if it's numerous and conflicting, are you genuinely listening to the advice you get? I don't get the sense that you are, but maybe so. It seems like you're spinning your wheels. You're looking at every facet of your life as a problem that is victimizing you and looking outward for someone to fix it (at least, to tell you what to do to fix it). And it seems like you're spinning from one issue to the next, thinking that if just somehow all these things would be solved, you'd be "OK."
It's that very mindset - of seeing everything in life as a problem, of seeing yourself as the victim things keep happening to - that is the actual obstacle, not the reality of things. Which is why it's great that you're exploring a new counseling relationship. But even there, as other people have pointed out, that counselor is not going to fix anything for you or provide close emotional support -- you think those two things are what you need to be OK, but they aren't. You do need someone objective to listen and gently point things out to you, if you're willing to listen to them and do the heavy lifting of adjusting your outlook. It sounds like you have a bit of a perfectionism / fear of failing thing going on, too - I relate - and a counselor can help with that, too.
But what does asking 5,000 people accomplish? If you spend all your time asking and not enough time reflecting and working on yourself, are you making things better for yourself? What do you get out of running around and repeatedly telling different groups about your problems? What purpose is it really serving? (Please don't think I'm implying it's pointless -- it definitely has a point, and is serving some function for you right now. You need to reflect on what that is, though.)
I really do wish you well, and I'm sure everyone else that's responded does, too. It is sometimes hard to tell if you are genuinely asking for perspective or just looking for an audience to wallow for, though.
I see, I've been there. You don't trust the voice inside yourself one bit. That's why you go to everyone for advice. But then you don't actually listen to them either. You keep yourself in a state of panic so that you don't have to really move forward. It also doesn't do much to cement to your friendships. If you value someone's friendship you won't overindulge yourself in asking for their help. I'm just putting myself in someone's shoes that you go to. If I had a friend who was asking me for advice, then not taking it and running around in circles about it, or coming up with several reasons why they can't take my advice I would probably distance myself a bit. Not because I don't care but because the distance is already there. If you build a wall of "I can't!" then you're really isolating yourself.
Giving credit to someone else for saving you from suicide is really dangerous.
Even if it's numerous and conflicting, are you genuinely listening to the advice you get? I don't get the sense that you are, but maybe so. It seems like you're spinning your wheels. You're looking at every facet of your life as a problem that is victimizing you and looking outward for someone to fix it (at least, to tell you what to do to fix it). And it seems like you're spinning from one issue to the next, thinking that if just somehow all these things would be solved, you'd be "OK."
It's that very mindset - of seeing everything in life as a problem, of seeing yourself as the victim things keep happening to - that is the actual obstacle, not the reality of things. Which is why it's great that you're exploring a new counseling relationship. But even there, as other people have pointed out, that counselor is not going to fix anything for you or provide close emotional support -- you think those two things are what you need to be OK, but they aren't. You do need someone objective to listen and gently point things out to you, if you're willing to listen to them and do the heavy lifting of adjusting your outlook. It sounds like you have a bit of a perfectionism / fear of failing thing going on, too - I relate - and a counselor can help with that, too.
But what does asking 5,000 people accomplish? If you spend all your time asking and not enough time reflecting and working on yourself, are you making things better for yourself? What do you get out of running around and repeatedly telling different groups about your problems? What purpose is it really serving? (Please don't think I'm implying it's pointless -- it definitely has a point, and is serving some function for you right now. You need to reflect on what that is, though.)
I really do wish you well, and I'm sure everyone else that's responded does, too. It is sometimes hard to tell if you are genuinely asking for perspective or just looking for an audience to wallow for, though.
I'm putting this in all caps so its a loud declaration, no harm meant here:
I AM GOING TO STOP WORRYING ABOUT EVERYTHING. TAKE THINGS ONE STEP AT A TIME. I MAKE LIFE HARD. NO ONE ELSE DOES. WHO CARES IF PEOPLE DON'T APPROVE OF THE THINGS I DO, IF THEY REALLY CARED IT WOULDN'T MATTER TO THEM ANYWAY. I AM SPECIAL, I CAN FLY, I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT AND IT'S OKAY AS LONG AS I'M HAPPY. I AM HAPPY. MY FAMILY LOVES ME. MY MAN LOVES ME. I HAVE FRENDS AND THEY LOVE ME, AND THESE PEOPLE CAN CARE ABOUT ME BUT I CAN'T EXPECT THEM TO TAKE CARE OF ME. I HAVE TO DO THAT.
And I'm going to. Right now. because all I'm doing is letting my brain conquer me and I can conquer my brain. I don't think I'm gonna take that job because I have enough money right now to carry me through until my lease is up. And I need to work on myself and my happiness because I can't be successful if I'm miserable. I think I'm gonna start putting up money for a trip to NYC. And I'm not gonna let anyone tell me I can't do it. I can go to NYC with or without people and its something I've always wanted to do as damnit I will because it'll prove to me and everyone else that I'm not a you-know-what. The end.
Kudos Lauren, great proclamation! Keep at it, and as my fiance sometimes gently reminds me, "Stop thinking so much.". Haha! Don't take it the wrong way, I just totally resonate with the over-thinking things piece! lol. Shalom!
It seems like you're experiencing what is often called "monkey mind."
Let me tell you something that I've learned that I find very valuable...
Most of our parents were raised without any inkling of self-compassion. I am not talking about selfishness/self-centeredness/self-esteem. I'm talking about forgiving one's self wholly. We (and your parents) were all taught we must be selfless and giving and have compassion for others, and often it's impossible to measure up, so all sorts of outlets are used instead. But when does anyone ever suggest having compassion for yourself? Let's say you misplaced your car keys - imagine the litany of degrading remarks you apply to yourself that you would never use on anyone else.
This lack of self-applied compassion is a black hole. This lack of wholeness unconsciously gets passed down from generation to generation in the form of disconnectedness, punishment, and reward. I don't even think most of us are fully aware of this lack because it's so common and automatic. However, without self-compassion, our parents easily lost their patience with us, resorted to the tools they were given and punished us if we didn't do precisely as we were told. Obey, and we would be rewarded. It's the system we have and we all live it, no one is to blame, and it probably won't change anytime soon (I still resort to this with my own son. It's simply force of habit).
Also, it's a system that is commended by society at large. Everyone seems to think it works because there's the illusory motivation it produces, but the motivation is external (ever hear of external locus of control?) and doesn't last. Get a sticker if you clean your room does not mean you have any desire to clean your room now or in the future - your desire is for the sticker. As an adult, who needs a sticker? And who is giving it?
The true motivation is internal. We all need an internal locus of control to guide us. You do not need external motivators (e.g. if I lose weight, I'm going to buy myself a new outfit...or...I shouldn't have eaten that pie, I better starve myself all day tomorrow so the scale goes down). They don't work. Every one of us has a drive inside to be happy/content and well. It's natural. No need to bury it with misinformation. Just be quiet and let it do its thing. It will lead you...
Being punished and being rewarded for something someone else wanted us to do taught us how to look outside ourselves for validation. You're doing that now, and in most of the things you do. You have a case of hot potato - the second you feel something, you jump outside of yourself and look for the next available release, whether it be your compulsive relationship with your best friend or this urge you have to be social and/or date guys, or travel, sing, etc.
It's what you've been trained to do. And every day, you're being trained to do it simply by living in this culture. And while it may not be your fault that you do this due to common programming, it is your responsibility. Your life is yours alone.
What's the solution? Self-compassion.
It seems like the second you start to have an emotion, the channel switches. Can you imagine self-compassion? Do you know what it is? I think most of us can imagine it, even if we've never really tried it on for size. If not, Google it. Get a book on it. Learn what you can. In any case, I guarantee you that you are hurting terribly inside and not acknowledging that pain. Because, pain hurts. It hurts so bad we want to escape, to jump out of our skin. It's because our parents couldn't face their own pain, so it taught us that pain is the worst thing in the world and has to be denied till it disappears from every conscious level of our being.
But, denied pain is a Medusa. It is only an illusion when it disappears because before you know it, your life is messed up, you're fat, you're driven to all kinds of bad situations, and you hate yourself, and feel empty inside and have no clue why. After all, you're in denial of your pain. It's so denied you probably don't even realize the extent of it. You may be completely numb to it. This is when it's nearly insurmountable.
The moment you have self-compassion, you recognize just how tired and sad you really are. This awareness is the key to your life.
So the question is, do you really want to conquer your brain?
You can conquer your brain by tuning into your emotions. Start by being quiet and alone, feeling your body and sensing any resistance. Whatever resistance you have acknowledge it and stop resisting. Be like an open current. Be the watcher and let your feelings and thoughts gently flow through you and around you like tiny shooting stars until they disappear. You will realize they don't define you. Stay tuned within yourself. Learn to meditate or pray. Get a book on it if you have to. Be focused on the inside. The more you do this, the less you are focused outside yourself. Change your inner world so that whatever is going on with the outer world doesn't matter so much.
At the end of the day, pain is not a big deal. It's just pain. Don't let it scare you like it does everyone else. Face it down, have your way with it, and let it go. You will be at peace inside and will have much less need for external gratification, knowing that you can confidently count on yourself for the answers to your own life.
Mazzy,
Your post made me cry. Thank you so much for reminding me of this important lesson. I'm not the OP but I've gotten so much out of this thread and your post hit home.
I've actually been giving this so much thought, about how our parents were and about how our families handled pain. I've always thought my parents and grandparents were strong and now I understand that they weren't strong at all, they were just making do, sweeping the pain under the rug and denying themselves the help they needed. I have inherited all their turmoil and I don't deny myself help, but I also don't know how to alleviate it for good.
I've thought about taking on a spiritual journey, I'm not religious in the traditional western sense but I am drawn to eastern philosophies. It's in my mind to isolate myself and take yoga retreats and practice meditation but it's hard with every day life (job, kids, house, realities). I have to make a bigger effort.
Location: Anchorage AK in the summer, Lawrence KS and travel in the winter
Posts: 222
S/C/G: High 285+ 256/ticker/160ish
Height: 5'6"
It's because our parents couldn't face their own pain, so it taught us that pain is the worst thing in the world and has to be denied till it disappears from every conscious level of our being.....
The moment you have self-compassion, you recognize just how tired and empty and sad you really are. This awareness is the key to your life....
At the end of the day, pain is not a big deal. It's just pain. Don't let it scare you like it does everyone else. Face it down, have your way with it, and let it go. You will be at peace inside and will have much less need for external gratification, knowing that you can confidently count on yourself for the answers to your own life.
Condensed, bolded part mine.
Amen! Amen! Amen!
So true and the journey of liberation from dynastic pain is one that many people (if not most) never take. They go to their grave with their self hatred and fears binding them.
I know my mother will. She treated me in particular cruelly much of the time butI now understand that it has much more to do with her own self hatred than me. (I looked just like her but was her opposite temperamentally. I carried her pain, partially understanding it like the biblical scapegoat for years.)
She's 75 years old, quite spry, and until a few years ago didn't have to take a pill for anything and yet she hates her body with a terrible intensity. I'd say objectively that she got a pretty good one. She always compares herself to others, thinking that other handsome women are more beautiful but in fact she was most of the time the better looking of her comparisons. She will never be wholly satisfied with herself, her life, her family which is beyond sad. We used to joke that Mom would have us move the barn 6 inches to the left and next year 5 inches to the right. But it's no joke, really. It was a symptom of her deeper dissatisfaction with herself and by extension all that is around her.
I have great compassion for mom because she lacks insight into things that have made her and by extension many other lives around her unhappy and no doubt the source of her pain is generational. There are many family secrets on her side and they are detestable in how they've shattered lives, shuttered insight and stolen happiness years past their expiration dates, initiated by people long dead.
Mirror, mirror on the wall.... Those fairy tales are in fact ancient wisdom and I have insight into what makes an "evil" stepmother and compassion for the what makes her life so empty that her beauty is all that she possesses. Her actions are inexcusable but understandable in the context of passing down the pain to the next generation.
You have to be ready to commit to dealing with the pain. It may take some time. I know I had so many defenses and intermeshing around my mother's issues that I had to approach it slowly, identify the layers and unweave the pain that bound me.
Now that I have, it's like the sun has come up in my life. Like night and day. I also see the waste of such inter-generational pain. The talent and potential to soar shunted into dealing with unproductive emotions that in fact belong elsewhere foisted onto innocent generations by denial.
Deep down I understood this even when wrapped with my mother's pain and I chose not to have children at a very early age to avoid passing down the bitterest part of the vine on to another generation.
My sister who is getting there sees the end point but still is working through her pain issues. She said had she known, she would have raised her boys with a lot more forgiveness and affection.
This is a subject I can warm to being on the backside of it and understanding the freedom to live my life without denial, fear or pain that isn't mine.
Well done Mazzy. Said more succinctly than I could have done.
Last edited by vintagecat; 09-28-2013 at 01:21 PM.
wannabeskinny, that means a lot coming from you! I've read a lot of your posts and found you to be quite enlightening as well. Usually when I read something you wrote, I'm over here doing an imaginary high five.
I think you can take up meditation and study yourself without being traditionally religious and also without compromising traditional religious beliefs. Honestly, you don't need more time - you need the moment you have now just to be. I used to think if only I had more time in the day, I'd be able to get everything done - but what I really wanted was more space. I'm taking that space now and things seem to be going a bit smoother.
Good luck on your journey!
cat - I hear you! well said... I really like this, "The talent and potential to soar shunted into dealing with unproductive emotions that in fact belong elsewhere foisted onto innocent generations by denial." God, how much more we could live if not so weighted down!
My mother is still very difficult to break through sometimes. She suffered from major depressive disorder most of her life, a legacy that thrives in my family and got passed onto me. It's strange - but I never find her to be very introspective of her problems - it's always someone else's fault. I went to lunch with her yesterday, and I fully expected the usual weight that comes with her presence, the downcast eyes, the slow speech - just being in her presence can feel suffocating. No wonder I would eat! And yet, she was even worse than I had imagined. But, I swore to myself that I wouldn't let her black hole suck me in. I vowed before I went there that I was bigger than her black hole. I stayed present. Staying present allowed me to overcome it. Not much later, she snapped out of it. We went shopping. She was a delight. So, being larger than the pain really made a difference not just for me, but for her, even without me intending to change her one bit.
So, Lauren, if you're still around, there is a solution and it does work if you take the space you need.
Location: Anchorage AK in the summer, Lawrence KS and travel in the winter
Posts: 222
S/C/G: High 285+ 256/ticker/160ish
Height: 5'6"
So, being larger than the pain really made a difference not just for me, but for her...
Mazzy,
Absolutely. Mom invents reasons for us to come now when she never did before. If I hadn't had the detachment and breakthrough that I had prior to her knee replacement surgery a few years ago (we stayed four months with her) it would have been a disaster for all of us.
I couldn't have coped well with her depression and dependencies. Definitely staying in the present, speaking rationally to the "pain" that is like a separate entity rather than reacting to it and spreading my joy and freedom around breaks the spell at least temporarily and her atmosphere doesn't threaten to swallow me up like it did in the past. I'm sure I am an enigma to my mother.
How it all relates to weight loss (bringing it around) has to do with my niece's wedding this spring. I decided that I would do my best to look nice even at 250 something. I found a very flattering dress, bought some make-up (the first in years) and proper accessories. I told my mother that I was wearing a vintage dress (which it was) and I'm sure she was thinking Oh.My.God Cathy's wearing some hideous thing...again, to the wedding.
Knowing this I went to the thrifts to find some God awful 80's construct that would do as a good joke. I found a lime green straight dress (which I look terrible in, both color and cut) with a big white collar and shoulders that would make a linebacker proud. I bought some ugly white shoes (March wedding, a no no) and proceeded at the appointed time to dress for the wedding.
I came out in that hideous ensemble and no one raised an eyebrow. I got a few tepid, "You look nice." and I realized then and there that I had set the bar for myself artificially low over the years in reaction to the demands that I be something other than I am. The fact that no one got the joke until I changed into the real wedding clothes meant that the joke was on me. So I decided to try a bit more starting with my weight which was impinging on my health. The last bit of rope that bound me was released. That is why I'm not struggling with my eating like I did in the past.
Again I warm to this subject because if people that need to can get here, they will understand the difference that it makes in every aspect of living. Thanks to mimsy for bringing this topic to the forefront though it was probably not intentional.
Last edited by vintagecat; 09-28-2013 at 01:57 PM.
I see a lot of inter-generational pain and its consequences from growing up and continuing to live around Native Alaskan peoples
I also attended a conference about fetal alcohol spectrum disorder a few weeks ago and one speaker was very interesting....he spoke about how your actions and experiences can change the expression of your actual genes and can then be passed down to your children...for example if you have the genetic tendency towards diabetes, you can choose or not choose to actually get diabetes based on your eating habits and exercise etc....there was a lot more than that but it was about how your life experiences and actions affect what genes are turned "on" and what remain turned "off" and how that gets passed down in generations
he spoke about how generations past have fought in horrific wars (and continue to) and about how Native Alaskans have experienced a total cultural takeover of their lands within generations here and as little as 2 generations ago, were shipped off to boarding schools, forbidden to speak their language or eat their Native foods there....this was in relation to how trauma affects genes and how those off/on genes are then passed down
the speaker talked about how there are theories in the scientific community about how PTSD in past generations could still be being passed down in a muted form as the now-common ADHD disorders
I thought this whole topic was just so interesting in terms of how our parents' experiences, trauma and choices could really be affecting us in unknown ways and through genetic expression
Last edited by alaskanlaughter; 09-28-2013 at 03:31 PM.
Thanks Mazzy for the encouraging words. You're right about needing space rather than time, the difference is a state of mind. I have never meditated and I imagine it to be difficult. The thought of sitting alone for even 5min sounds simple enough but I just know that my mind would be all over the place. I think I need some sort of direction, like a guided meditation. I've been taking some tai chi lessons which is considered "meditation in motion" and I really enjoy it and wish I had more time for it. I need to look for some resources on how to meditate.
Cat, I'll bet your mother thinks you are an enigma, but secretly she might also be envious. You can put yourself out there so boldly when she probably never could. I think your vintage dress idea is pretty funny. It's too bad no one knew you well enough to get the joke! But, boy, what a visual of how these things can backfire. That inner rebel attached to the outcome, still owned by these people in a weird way. It works both ways, doesn't it? You can succumb to the pressure and be codependent, or you can rebel and be counter-dependent, neither of which really represent You... It's a lesson I'm still learning as well. Now that I'm starting to get it, I hope I can start living the rest of my life in peace rather than some kind of twisted rebellion. They really should teach these things to kids, shouldn't they? It's such a waste to be so blind.
alaskanlaughter (nice name by the way), this is interesting: "The speaker talked about how there are theories in the scientific community about how PTSD in past generations could still be being passed down in a muted form as the now-common ADHD disorders."
I've always wondered if my depression is a form of PTSD. My brother had ADD when he was young. I believe stress can suppress growth, so it wouldn't surprise me if it did some form of damage on a cellular level, particularly in the womb during the most major growth period of a person's life. Or it could just be the suppression of pain and the resulting behaviors/nuances that impact the formation of ADHD after a child is born and while still developing. As a mother myself, I know that's an overwhelming weight to carry and it's much easier not to think about it. Really, all you can do anyway is focus on one's self and be present in order to heal both. But, anyway, I digress....
- and a counselor can help with that, too. 
