And just for the record, if you have insurance in the US and go to the ER, your $100 copay (or whatever the cost on your plan) is due at the ER desk before you see the doctor. Hopefully I remembered my credit card on my unplanned ER trip...
If you do not have insurance, please come right in, no payment due, and we will bill you in full later. Um, what?
My copay is not due at time of service for an ER visit. It might depend on the insurance company, I don't know, but we get a bill mailed to our house after the fact.
I'm not into this line of thinking anymore. It can be done without being well-off or a gym membership. If there's no time for exercise, calorie counting takes only minutes. I used the "I work full-time and I'm a single mom" excuse for years. When I wanted it bad enough I made the time/effort.
You can argue all you want, but the cards are stacked against poor people. IT IS NOT A COINCIDENCE THAT OBESITY AND POVERTY GO HAND IN HAND. I'm not exactly making it up. It's a fact, whether you're "into it" or not. I am NOT saying it's impossible to be rich and fat or poor and lose/manage your weight but it's much MUCH harder - especially if your lifestyle started when you were a child.
Then these people also will not benefit from having the preventative/health-related things covered by insurance, either.
A lot of people can't afford health insurance, but even more refuse to make it a priority. How many people have cable TV, internet, soda in the fridge, a car payment, etc. But don't have health insurance? Many. Many don't want to pay for it. Many don't want to put the work and time into researching and comparing rates, and finding affordable health care. I'll go back to car insurance again-- it's like all the people who don't get car insurance if it's not mandated by law in their state. It's a straight-up dumb thing to do, but for many people it is just not a priority.
Well even cable tv, internet, soda, car payment still can cost less than health insurance. I looked up my state provided health insurance, the one where they can't refuse you (as opposed to insurance companies that do refuse people for being in poor health) and if I wanted to cover my husband and myself for pretty basic high deductible, it'd cost $2400/month. That is a lot of money.
One of my close friends has neither cable tv, internet (she does mooch off of neighbors), soda or a car payment but neither does she have health insurance. She would also most likely not qualify as she has a pre-existing genetic condition. Sadly, I think her lack of health insurance will eventually lead her to being on disability as her genetic condition is degenerative but medically manageable (if she could afford the treatment). She is trying to avoid that as much as she can.
Thanks for the information on what healthcare is like in countries where it's socialized. I never knew things were like that.
My father-in-law spends about half his time in Argentina and much prefers getting his medical care there(he lives in MA) where he just pays for everything out of pocket. It works out cheaper w/o insurance there than with insurance here.
You can argue all you want, but the cards are stacked against poor people. IT IS NOT A COINCIDENCE THAT OBESITY AND POVERTY GO HAND IN HAND. I'm not exactly making it up. It's a fact, whether you're "into it" or not. I am NOT saying it's impossible to be rich and fat or poor and lose/manage your weight but it's much MUCH harder - especially if your lifestyle started when you were a child.
I think more attention needs to be paid towards the political handling of food. The cheapest food is usually the unhealthy food like processed pre packaged junk. Many people cannot afford to buy fresh produce. I think sugary drinks and snacks should be heavily taxed, just like cigarettes. I think that gym memberships, exercise equipment, and associated health activities should be tax-deductible. People need incentives to be healthy.
This exactly. I (kind of) have a degree in polisci (waiting to finish my other degree in Philosophy before I actually graduate but I"m done with Polisci) and this idea is thrown around A LOT. Why is High fructose corn syrup subsidized but not BROCCOLI. The FDA should not be ONE administration. For low income families this disparity is literally a form of oppression.
Right. We all know a couple people that life is hard for. But that doesn't change the fact that many people who don't have health insurance can afford it, it's just not a priority. Our idea of poor is often very skewed. I'll reiterate, because I know where it goes from there: Yes, we also all know/live/work/volunteer/whatever in legitimately poor areas. Truly poor people actually *do* exist. But there are many, many people who just make poor choices.
Well I think it also ties into the fact thst when you feel like you are in good health, you may feel like you can slide by without insurance but then when you realize something may be wrong, no one will insure you because of pre-existing conditions.
Well I think it also ties into the fact thst when you feel like you are in good health, you may feel like you can slide by without insurance but then when you realize something may be wrong, no one will insure you because of pre-existing conditions.
I can't think of anyone who can afford health care that doesn't think of it as a priority. It's always a matter of cost versus need. Everyone needs it, and everyone knows they should have it. If they aren't able to get it through their jobs then they can't afford it. It's expensive in the hundreds of dollars per month. It costs more than utility bills combined in many cases.
I can't think of anyone who can afford health care that doesn't think of it as a priority. It's always a matter of cost versus need. Everyone needs it, and everyone knows they should have it. If they aren't able to get it through their jobs then they can't afford it. It's expensive in the hundreds of dollars per month. It costs more than utility bills combined in many cases.
I mentioned above that if I didn't have it through my employer, I could get a high deductible insurance through my state... For $2400/month which is quite insane. Many years ago, I had a friend looking into it, she was living off of savings (no income) and similar high deductible insurance cost $600/month at the cheapest.
I'm sure some could cut expenses dramatically and maybe afford it but it isn't cheap.
Right. We all know a couple people that life is hard for. But that doesn't change the fact that many people who don't have health insurance can afford it, it's just not a priority. Our idea of poor is often very skewed. I'll reiterate, because I know where it goes from there: Yes, we also all know/live/work/volunteer/whatever in legitimately poor areas. Truly poor people actually *do* exist. But there are many, many people who just make poor choices.
Yep.
Just as there are some people that say they're too poor to afford a gym membership (not that you need a gym to lose, just an example) but they have cable, internet and an iPhone. Priorities.
I think maybe you can't imagine that there are people who don't live more or less like you do. I understand that. I have been there. I've also moved around a bit and faced to total impossibility of explaining how different things are from where I grew up or where I most recently lived. There are differences you can't even think of until you live them. When someone once told me there was literally no option for fresh food that didn't involve dragging her two kids across town via 3 bus transfers (and a few hours) and then dragging them and the groceries home again I thought it just couldn't be possible.
It would obviously be MUCH better for EVERYONE if people ate better, exercised more, and controlled their weight! Obviously! It would cost all of a lot less but since our fantastic government doesn't do "forward thinking" or "planning" or "giving a crap about people" we're stuck with this crazy jacked up situation where 80% of our food isn't food, people who do have jobs work longer hours with less vacation than any other developed country, kids have less PE and recess time than ever, health care is almost unaffordable, whole towns don't have sidewalks, kids can't go to school in their own neighborhoods so there's certainly no walking or riding their bikes there - do you see what people are up against?
Our problems in this country are so big it will take a generation to sort them out, if we aren't too far gone. Those of us with the time and education and money to make changes still find it hard. Imagine if you had none of those things. Where would you start? No one is trying to take away from whatever you feel your accomplishments are, and it won't make you fat to admit some people have a little more to overcome.
I'm sure it's somewhat possible for more or less everyone to weigh less than they do and be more fit but at a certain point you either acknowledge that some people face a **** of a lot more obstacles or you're just being obtuse.
I think maybe you can't imagine that there are people who don't live more or less like you do. I understand that. I have been there. I've also moved around a bit and faced to total impossibility of explaining how different things are from where I grew up or where I most recently lived. There are differences you can't even think of until you live them. When someone once told me there was literally no option for fresh food that didn't involve dragging her two kids across town via 3 bus transfers (and a few hours) and then dragging them and the groceries home again I thought it just couldn't be possible.
.
I find this interesting. One thing I remember, was reading an article from a trainer (based in California) that one should always use fresh fruits and vegetables. Now, I live in Quebec, and when you go north here into the Inuit communities, a head of iceberg lettuce can actually cost up to $10. Okay, they can walk to their store. Now, what about a woman who lives in nowhereseville, and doesn't have a vehicle. Can she just walk her 3 kids to the store at a whim's notice? I find this difficult and I have only 2 kids and a car
I also think a lot of the problems just come down to misinformation at the end of the day. We have to be careful to stereotype the poor as just "too stupid/ignorant" to understand health and nutrition, I think sometimes we can get into that side of it and that's not fair either. I grew up poor - poor enough that my mom was a "freegan". I thought a can of mushroom soup was perfectly adequate dairy and vegetable servings. I wasn't dumb, but nobody told me different and I didn't think to look it up (mind you, this was also back before all food camewith nutrition labels and to "look things up" you had to pull out a ..... BOOK!).
I have a book for my 3 year old and you sit with Elmo at the breakfast table and we talk about yummy things to eat. Normally, he likes Cheerios. Elmo had a whole wheat bagel and he decided he wanted one too. Wow! Maybe these kinds of books could go in a classroom? Now, I know somewhere, someone will remark about the wheat/corn industry having a hand in that and I don't disagree... but it's a start.
I think maybe you can't imagine that there are people who don't live more or less like you do. I understand that. I have been there. I've also moved around a bit and faced to total impossibility of explaining how different things are from where I grew up or where I most recently lived. There are differences you can't even think of until you live them. When someone once told me there was literally no option for fresh food that didn't involve dragging her two kids across town via 3 bus transfers (and a few hours) and then dragging them and the groceries home again I thought it just couldn't be possible.
It would obviously be MUCH better for EVERYONE if people ate better, exercised more, and controlled their weight! Obviously! It would cost all of a lot less but since our fantastic government doesn't do "forward thinking" or "planning" or "giving a crap about people" we're stuck with this crazy jacked up situation where 80% of our food isn't food, people who do have jobs work longer hours with less vacation than any other developed country, kids have less PE and recess time than ever, health care is almost unaffordable, whole towns don't have sidewalks, kids can't go to school in their own neighborhoods so there's certainly no walking or riding their bikes there - do you see what people are up against?
Our problems in this country are so big it will take a generation to sort them out, if we aren't too far gone. Those of us with the time and education and money to make changes still find it hard. Imagine if you had none of those things. Where would you start? No one is trying to take away from whatever you feel your accomplishments are, and it won't make you fat to admit some people have a little more to overcome.
I'm sure it's somewhat possible for more or less everyone to weigh less than they do and be more fit but at a certain point you either acknowledge that some people face a **** of a lot more obstacles or you're just being obtuse.
Yes, I am aware that there are people that don't live more or less like me. I don't live a sheltered life and have had more than my fair share of ups and downs. You keep wanting to point out that more poor people are obese, I get that part. I'm saying it doesn't take money to lose it if you want to. You also don't have to live on fresh produce and salad to lose weight; maybe that's where we are failing to see eye to eye.
You can still eat affordable food in moderation. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm bowing out now. Internet debates aren't my thing.
