[harrismm]

Hope things are well Katie.How have things evolved with your parents.Thinking of you!!

[witchyonadiet]

UPDATE

Hi all - anyone looking for an update from Katie go back to her first post and she edited it - things are going much better but go read for yourselves.

{{{ Katie}}}

[recidivist]

Thanks so much for the update Katie. I'm so glad to know things are easing up a bit. Hang tough cookie...you are strong and will survive this, and it will be nice to know you can discuss this honestly with at least your Mom.

[flatiron]

Originally Posted by recidivist

Living a lie can be very hard on someone...especially someone who is young and idealistic. And if Katie's Mom is anything like mine, she is constantly having religion shoved down her throat, which is like pouring scalding water on a burn when you have to keep silent and just keep taking it.

I'm sorry, but it is presumptuous to imply that she does not have an open mind.

Katie's parents are responsible for their own feelings. Katie should not have to live a lie to protect them from who she really is.

.

And it is very presumptuous of you to assume that Katie's Mom is shoving religion "down her throat" ...

Also telling someone you will keep an open mind on a certain subject doesn't have to mean that you do not have an open mind. I never said she didn't have an open mind.

And there is a BIG difference in living a lie and compromising for family harmony.

She is after all a minor and still has to be cared for until she is an adult.
And what is wrong with showing respect for the people who have cared for you, fed you, clothed you and put a roof over your head all of your life.

I have worked with the youth and have seen first hand what happens to a teen (especially a female) when they are on the street. It almost always never turns out good.

You are an admitted atheist and thats fine... that is your choice. But you are an adult and can do what you want.

Katie is in a different situation. She is in someone else's home and under their care. My advice was just to show some respect and maybe keep it under wraps for a while until she is of legal age and on her own.

Then she can shout it from the roof tops if she wants to.

recidivist I can tell by your post your were probably raised by someone who was obsessed with their belief and tried to transfer it too you. I am so sorry to hear you had that kind of upbringing it must have been very hard.

Almost every person I have ever known in my life who had family that tried to "shove religion down their throats" as you said, ended up rejecting that relgion and many in fact ended up becoming the opposite of what they were against. Someone who was obsessed with expressing THEIR belief that there is no God. These are the people who try and get Christmas trees banned in the mall.

I will state again that I believe that it is a personal decision whether someone chooses to believe or not. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks (parents or otherwise) .... I think....

ANYWAYS... Katey is doing better and I am glad for that!

[frieden]

Thanks witchy for telling us about the update.

Katie, that's wonderful news.

[Numina]

Originally Posted by flatiron

And there is a BIG difference in living a lie and compromising for family harmony... She is after all a minor and still has to be cared for until she is an adult. And what is wrong with showing respect for the people who have cared for you, fed you, clothed you and put a roof over your head all of your life...My advice was just to show some respect and maybe keep it under wraps for a while until she is of legal age and on her own.

Just a couple of points, from the atheist side of the fence:

If your goal is "family harmony", then both sides need to be doing some compromising. That is the definition of compromise, in fact. Moreover, as adults secure in their own world view and with an adult's amount of experience under their belts, Katie's parents should be better able to do that than she is.

Respect should go both ways; it is as much the responsibility of her family to respect Katie as for her to respect them. Funny how you so seldom hear anyone say: 'Honor your CHILD..."

If Katie came from an atheist family and had found Jesus at some summer camp, would you still be advising her to "keep it under wraps?" While I agree there is no need to shove your personal beliefs in someone else's face, being an atheist or agnostic isn't something she needs to be ashamed of and it isn't some kind of disease or failing that she needs to hide. After all, she isn't asking her family to change what they believe or how they act or what they do, only that they allow her the same freedom. If they can't find a way to allow her the same freedom of thought that they enjoy, then it isn't her doing the belief-shoving at all, is it?

Katie, it may be hard in your situation to find people with similar beliefs to talk to. Since you have Internet access, you might want to check out http://www.beliefnet.com/. This site has a wide range of discussion boards including ones for various spiritual types, from atheist to Christian to pagan and everything in between, so you could read about different paths and talk to people that follow them. There is a quiz at the bottom of the home page called "Belief-O-Matic" that might help you clarify your thoughts (although it is mostly in fun). My best advice is to remember that your parents love you (yes, they really do!) and to concentrate on all the things you share with them rather than on those things where you differ. (Easy for me to say, right?)

Best of luck with the spirituality issue and with your on-going quest to be as healthy as you can!

[recidivist]

FI, I'm not going to argue religion with you. My posts in this thread are about supporting Katie, and your post came across to me as if you were chiding her for choosing to disrupt family harmony for being honest with her parents about her true feelings. I think it's pretty sad that a child should have to lie to her parents to keep peace in the family. But Numina said it better than I.

And no, I didn't have religion shoved down my throat as long as I was willing to participate (and at first I was). But when I finally resisted going to church with my pedophile step-dad, who had molested me and yet claimed to be this wonderful Christian, lauded by the community as such a wonderful guy, the hypocrisy was a bit too much, and I revolted. And when our pastor would not shake the hand of a black man who visited our church, again the hypocrisy bit deep. I didn't get the help I needed and finally admit to myself I didn't believe in God until I was in my thirties.

After I left home and moved away, my step dad eventually left my mom to live with the girl from next door (a year older than I was). He was molesting her too, at the age of 13. And they ended up getting married. Just about killed my Mom, who became seriously engulfed in the church for her own sanity (which is why many people end up in religion, I fear) and now it is every other word out of her mouth...God this and God that, and I have to constantly bite my tongue not to tell her I'm not a believer in her bible and religion anymore. But at her age, I don't know that it would be fair to tell her (she's 83). She doesn't have that much time left, so I keep it to myself...yet I'm an idealist, and even as an adult it is hard to keep in. I would never wish that on a child.

[flatiron]

Originally Posted by Numina

Just a couple of points, from the atheist side of the fence:

If your goal is "family harmony", then both sides need to be doing some compromising.

Uhhh not when one side of the aurgument holds ALL the cards and pays ALL the bill. A parent and child are not equal... at least not where I was brought up.

How many gazillions of times has a parent told a kid to do something and the kids asks why and the answer is always "because I TOLD you so?"

Also compromise is when one or more people make consessions. BOTH parties do not have to compromise... one can compromise and the other not.

And again when one pays all the bills and the other does not guess who gets to compromise???

[flatiron]

Originally Posted by recidivist

Just about killed my Mom, who became seriously engulfed in the church for her own sanity (which is why many people end up in religion, I fear) and now it is every other word out of her mouth...God this and God that,

But at her age, I don't know that it would be fair to tell her (she's 83). She doesn't have that much time left, so I keep it to myself...

Rec do you know what you just wrote??? You just admitted that you keep your thoughts on religion to yourself to spare your Mom's feeling and for family harmony which is EXACTLY what my advice to Katie was.

Anyways I appologize for this thread sorta getting hijacked in another direction when the important thing is Katie getting some good (and varied) advice and support.

[recidivist]

Originally Posted by flatiron

Rec do you know what you just wrote??? You just admitted that you keep your thoughts on religion to yourself to spare your Mom's feeling and for family harmony which is EXACTLY what my advice to Katie was.

Yes, and did you hear what I said? I would not being keeping my ideas about religion a secret if my Mom were young and healthy, because that would not be good for anyone. But my Mom has had cancer twice and is 83 and becoming less astute as time goes on...a bit of senility setting in, so what would be the point. I don't have many years left to lie to her. But for a young idealistic person facing a life of lying to her parents to save them from anguish...sorry...that's just wrong. She is the child and they are the adults and it's their job to be adults. Now, even though I'm the daughter, it's my Mom who is becoming childlike and I am the adult and I choose to make her life easier, for whatever time she has left, even at the cost of my own peace of mind. Mom and I talk every day through e-mail, but rarely see each other, so it's easy to zip my lip. If I were living with her and having to deal with daily doses of her religious indoctrination, even now, I'd have to talk to her about it to shut her up. Katie doesn't have the option of leaving the home situation. She is a captive audience. That makes it even more reprehensible that her parents would not allow her a voice in all this.

Again...I'd never want to see a child put in that position.

[flatiron]

Originally Posted by recidivist

That makes it even more reprehensible that her parents would not allow her a voice in all this.

Again...I'd never want to see a child put in that position.

Oh so now her parents are reprehensible??? How can you say that when you do not even know them and have only heard one side of the story???

Rec it seems you want to have the last word and so you may have it. I draw the line at name calling so I won't be commenting in this thread anymore.

Have a great day!

[Leenie]

Katie Marie, thank you so much for the update

I'm closing this thread...... Thank you Everyone


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