Chicks in Control - I think I may belong here....




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Lilbert
06-05-2014, 08:22 AM
Ive always joked that I have a binge every now and then, its usually junk. Actually its always junk, something salty/cheesy, usually a takeaway. Ive never really considered myself a 'binge eater' or having a binge problem. Except I've been tracking absolutely everything for around 4 weeks now, and while I'm staying within my calories I'm fine.
Except when I don't, a couple of times a week I'll have an 'evening off' and takeout etc, its in excess of 4000kcal an evening. Effectively cancelling out the hard work for the rest of the week. I hadn't realised it came to that many calories, or that often. So its kind of shocking to see the pattern on my graph of calories over the week. Every few days there will be a huge spike to about 4000kcal then back to normal for a few days.
So I'm owning up to it, maybe I am a 'binge eater' without having realised it? :?:


Wannabeskinny
06-05-2014, 09:27 AM
Anyone who restricts is at risk for binging in my opinion. It's a cycle that diets set up, and in many cases (me me me!) it led to an eating disorder. It happens, restriction has that effect on anyone. My 3 yr old is sitting quietly reading a book - if I walk up to him and say "you can't have cookies," he'll start crying and throw a tantrum, eventhough he wasn't even thinking about cookies then. When you keep saying no no no to everything you want to eat, you're acting in defiance of what your body wants and defiance leads to rebellion - hence 4000 every few days.

Let me give you an example. Let's say that you want a piece of chocolate. You say to yourself "no, I'm going to be good, I'm going to have an apple instead, it's healthier, it's better for me, it's sweet, it should hit the spot." You eat the apple, but you're not satisfied. You start to feel uncomfortable, you reach for another apple, or perhaps try to console yourself with a few carrots and hummus, trying to divert that uncomfortable feeling by feeding yourself food. You pat yourself on the back, you did good! A couple of hours go by and BAM you're a monster, you eat a huge bowl of cereal and an entire chocolate bar... and since you blew it already you just go ahead and eat the ice cream too.

If you had just allowed yourself to eat that little piece of chocolate and satisfied your body's need for it you wouldn't have gone through that hooplah of diversions, food, and eventual binge. This is sort of what happens with restriction binges.

Mrs Snark
06-06-2014, 02:56 PM
Here are a few more possible scenarios:

Scenario #1:

Let's say that you want a piece of chocolate. You say to yourself "no, I'm going to be good, I'm going to have an apple instead, it's healthier, it's better for me, it's sweet, it should hit the spot." You eat the apple slowly, you enjoy it, and you discover you were actually truly hungry which is why you began fixating on chocolate in the first place. Good thing you had that apple on hand! Your husband then comes home and you watch a bad romantic comedy that you both rate a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10, and then you have wild, crazy sex that you both rate a 9 (it would have been a 10 but the music you put on ran out before the grand finale occurred, thus the mark down).

Scenario #2:

Let's say that you want a piece of chocolate. You say to yourself, "I want chocolate, it's bad to deny myself what I want, I'm going to have chocolate! Normal people have chocolate all the time, and they enjoy it and then get on with their lives! So I'm going to have the chocolate!" You eat the chocolate. It's delicious! You break off another tiny piece of chocolate. SO delicious! You break off another itty bitty teeny tiny piece of chocolate. Oh wow, this chocolate is AWESOME! You eat all the rest of the chocolate in the house. You get a lovely sugar high and then start to crash. You want more chocolate! There is no more chocolate. You try to console yourself with a few carrots and hummus. Then you eat a huge bowl of cereal, a plate of pasta, a box of onion rings, a bag of salted peanuts, 2 slices cheddar cheese dipped in salad dressing, and a stale loaf of french bread. You wish you'd had an apple instead.

Scenario #3:

Let's say that you want a piece of chocolate. You say to yourself, "no, I'm going to be good, I'm going to have an apple instead, it's healthier, it's better for me, it's sweet, it should hit the spot." On the way to get the apple from the kitchen, aliens land and you are forced to flee without the chocolate or the apple. Oddly, the aliens look alot like apples with chocolatey tentacles and have voices like Rhianna on helium. Hiding in a burned out van 7 blocks from your now-demolished house, you'd pay a million dollars to have both the chocolate, the apple, and a high-powered rifle.


Wannabehealthy
06-06-2014, 04:08 PM
Wannabeskinny, your scenario has happened to me many many times, and that's why I will eat a small amount of what I'm craving instead of trying to find a replacement.

The only disagreement I'll give you is where you say the chocolate was what your body needed. Your body needs nutrients, but it never "needs" chocolate. It's your head that wanted the chocolate.

And, yes, I did find Mrs Snark's scenarios funny! Thanks for the laugh.

Pinkhippie
06-06-2014, 04:41 PM
Hah hah Mrs Snark! Dare I say you live up to your name? :D ( I mean that in a very good way)


Here is a scenario that happens to me quite often.

I guess we can call it possible scenario 4:

I want the chocolate, so I have the chocolate. The first few bites are DELICIOUS. Then I realize that I am actually hungry. When I am hungry, I want something more filling. So, I think about what sounds good to me because chocolate actually isn't very filling and since Im hungry, that is not really what my body truly wants. So, I eat something filling with nutrients. :) Sometimes its an apple with some peanut butter, but protein definitely needs to be featured.

The other scenario. I want some chocolate. I eat some. Its DELICIOUS. After a few bites, I am satisfied since I wasn't hungry in the first place. I just wanted a taste and I know if I keep eating I will get sugar head and feel bad and then need to eat some protein to balance myself. I don't want to do that so I stop eating. :) OR I take a few bites and stop because thats really all I wanted. It just depends on the chocolate and what kind it is. Usually darker chocolate has a stronger taste so I really only need a few bites.

Ooh or the last scenario. I want chocolate. I take a few bites and realize it tastes like chocolate flavored wax. I realize I don't really want chocolate and I want strawberries and vanilla ice cream instead. I have a small bowl of that and it is DELICIOUS. Because it is exactly what I wanted and it hits the spot so perfectly, I don't need to eat much and I enjoy the taste without getting sugar head. That happened last night actually.

Those are my chocolate scenarios now that I don't restrict chocolate from my life. :)

Oh! And my midwife actually told me that sometimes when you are craving chocolate you are craving magnesium. She recommended dates or bananas if I didn't want to be eating chocolate all the time. :) So, its possible your body really could be craving chocolate.

Just "food" for thought.

Lilbert
06-11-2014, 10:03 AM
HAHAHA! I'm loving all the scenarios, lol. Thanks guys. X

Wannabeskinny
06-11-2014, 10:20 AM
Wannabeskinny, your scenario has happened to me many many times, and that's why I will eat a small amount of what I'm craving instead of trying to find a replacement.

The only disagreement I'll give you is where you say the chocolate was what your body needed. Your body needs nutrients, but it never "needs" chocolate. It's your head that wanted the chocolate.

And, yes, I did find Mrs Snark's scenarios funny! Thanks for the laugh.

I don't know about you, but my head is part of my body. And so whether it's my head or my body and it's asking for chocolate I give it. There is a big difference between living within restrictions and living outside of restrictions. Back when I was restricting myself a little chocolate craving turned into a huge chocolate binge. Now that I am not restricting myself from any food I don't binge anymore so when my body asks for chocolate it is satisfied with literally a small square of chocolate. Dark chocolate is full of antioxidants and nutrients, there is absolutely no reason that your body/mind shouldn't have a legitimate need for chocolate.

Although I see the humour in Mrs. Snark's "scenarios" they seem to be at my expense. I assure you that the scenario I pointed out is a very real scenario that played itself out numerous times, for me and for others. Furthermore, I don't think there is anything bad about chocolate, we shouldn't feel bad about craving it or any foods, and that by judging ourselves as good or bad leads to extreme behavior.

Durian
06-11-2014, 11:06 PM
Is it possible that you aren't binging and you're just eating calorie-laden foods? I'm just throwing this out there, you obviously know yourself better.

Either way, I think it's great you're tracking your eating habits so you can identify the problem.

Although I see the humour in Mrs. Snark's "scenarios" they seem to be at my expense. I assure you that the scenario I pointed out is a very real scenario that played itself out numerous times, for me and for others. Furthermore, I don't think there is anything bad about chocolate, we shouldn't feel bad about craving it or any foods, and that by judging ourselves as good or bad leads to extreme behavior.

I'm not speaking for her intent, but my own takeaway (based on my own experiences) is that some people are not in a place where they can give in. I cannot eat the chocolate right now. It's great that you can, but I cannot.

Mrs Snark
06-12-2014, 11:32 AM
Wannabe: I've experienced every scenario in the thread, pretty much, yours, mine and pinkhippie's . And the ones I wrote weren't meant to be "at your expense", they were simply the flip side of the ones you wrote and they are equally as valid. Sorry if you felt they were mean, that's most definitely not how they were meant!

Wannabeskinny
06-12-2014, 11:58 AM
Wannabe: I've experienced every scenario in the thread, pretty much, yours, mine and pinkhippie's . And the ones I wrote weren't meant to be "at your expense", they were simply the flip side of the ones you wrote and they are equally as valid. Sorry if you felt they were mean, that's most definitely not how they were meant!

Thanks for clearing that up, they don't seem real but then again who am I to claim there are no aliens? I thought you were implying that the scenario I posed was far fetched. Which I wish it was.

Mrs Snark
06-12-2014, 12:39 PM
Well, not the alien one, lol. That one was just silliness. :)

But all the rest.

flower123
06-28-2014, 10:53 PM
Here are a few more possible scenarios:

Scenario #1:

Let's say that you want a piece of chocolate. You say to yourself "no, I'm going to be good, I'm going to have an apple instead, it's healthier, it's better for me, it's sweet, it should hit the spot." You eat the apple slowly, you enjoy it, and you discover you were actually truly hungry which is why you began fixating on chocolate in the first place. Good thing you had that apple on hand! Your husband then comes home and you watch a bad romantic comedy that you both rate a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10, and then you have wild, crazy sex that you both rate a 9 (it would have been a 10 but the music you put on ran out before the grand finale occurred, thus the mark down).

Scenario #2:

Let's say that you want a piece of chocolate. You say to yourself, "I want chocolate, it's bad to deny myself what I want, I'm going to have chocolate! Normal people have chocolate all the time, and they enjoy it and then get on with their lives! So I'm going to have the chocolate!" You eat the chocolate. It's delicious! You break off another tiny piece of chocolate. SO delicious! You break off another itty bitty teeny tiny piece of chocolate. Oh wow, this chocolate is AWESOME! You eat all the rest of the chocolate in the house. You get a lovely sugar high and then start to crash. You want more chocolate! There is no more chocolate. You try to console yourself with a few carrots and hummus. Then you eat a huge bowl of cereal, a plate of pasta, a box of onion rings, a bag of salted peanuts, 2 slices cheddar cheese dipped in salad dressing, and a stale loaf of french bread. You wish you'd had an apple instead.

Scenario #3:

Let's say that you want a piece of chocolate. You say to yourself, "no, I'm going to be good, I'm going to have an apple instead, it's healthier, it's better for me, it's sweet, it should hit the spot." On the way to get the apple from the kitchen, aliens land and you are forced to flee without the chocolate or the apple. Oddly, the aliens look alot like apples with chocolatey tentacles and have voices like Rhianna on helium. Hiding in a burned out van 7 blocks from your now-demolished house, you'd pay a million dollars to have both the chocolate, the apple, and a high-powered rifle.
Thanks for the great laugh. I needed it. While its an old(ish) thread, I loved reading it. The lightness of humor. I needed to lighten up

hannahbeanies
06-29-2014, 11:00 AM
This was a good thread to read. I have been in every single one of these scenarios (except for aliens, which I hope goes without saying). Everyone's body is different so everyone has different solutions. I know that I cannot deny myself something if I want it because it will lead to a horrid binge of not just that food, but everything within reach. However, this morning for example, I was craving some ice cream. I got out my trusty measuring spoons and scooped out a moderate portion. I knew exactly how much I was eating & I do not feel guilty & I feel comfortable. However, I can totally see how some people could not indulge in their cravings. It is like a different biochemical reaction in the brain. You get a taste and your brain is like "OOOO more of that please!!!" That is why some people have to abstain. All of these scenarios are equally valid, IMHO.

LesMillsLuvr
06-29-2014, 10:10 PM
I have experienced the alien scenario. And it's true - they do look like chocolatey legged apples.

Wannabehealthy
07-01-2014, 03:04 PM
MrsSnark I thought your scenarios were hillarious. We all need a good laugh once in a while. I copied them and am forwarding them to a friend who will appreciate them as much as I did. You have talent!!

Wannabeskinny, I understand about cravings and I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with chocolate. My point was just that it's not something your body needs, nutritionally. If that doesn't matter to you, that's fine, we are all entitled to our opinions, and yes, my head is also part of my body, but so is my fat belly that I'm trying to get rid of.

Wannabeskinny
07-01-2014, 03:22 PM
Wannabeskinny, I understand about cravings and I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with chocolate. My point was just that it's not something your body needs, nutritionally. If that doesn't matter to you, that's fine, we are all entitled to our opinions, and yes, my head is also part of my body, but so is my fat belly that I'm trying to get rid of.

Nutritionally, why not? I suppose the same thing can be said about broccoli. If you don't like broccoli then you don't have to eat it, as long as the nutrients in it can be found in other foods that you like then no, it's not necessary. And if one finds all the benefits of chocolate in other foods then chocolate is unecessary. But it's pointless to deny the nutritional benefits of chocolate, just as it is pointless to deny the nutritional benefits of broccoli. There are any number of reasons a person doesn't have to eat a specific food, you don't want it, you don't like it, you don't like the sugar in it, you don't want it to stain your teeth etc. but to say it has no nutritional purpose is bogus.

MayoLover
07-01-2014, 03:43 PM
Personally, I don't want to live in a world where I eat only to meet "nutritional needs". That's like having sex only to have babies.

Down that path lays "goop", like they served in The Matrix:

"It's a single celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs."

Or Soylent, like they are starting to serve in the real world.

Give me chocolate AND broccoli any day.

Wannabehealthy
07-01-2014, 05:49 PM
Personally, I don't want to live in a world where I eat only to meet "nutritional needs". That's like having sex only to have babies.

Down that path lays "goop", like they served in The Matrix:

"It's a single celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs."

Or Soylent, like they are starting to serve in the real world.

Give me chocolate AND broccoli any day.

And I agree! That's your right as a person to choose what you want to eat. Believe me, I didn't get to 200 lbs by eating broccoli. I have done more than my share of non nutritional eating. My point is that by eating more and more vegetables, I have found myself craving healthy foods more and not craving sweets etc. That's not to say I never eat them, but I no longer have to fight to stay away from them. If there is anyone reading this forum who has a problem with sugar cravings that reads my message and decides to try it for themselves, then I've helped someone. Maybe it would work for them, maybe not, but I am NOT trying to make everyone give up the foods they love or eat foods that they do not care for. I wouldn't like it if someone did that to me.

Wannabeskinny
07-01-2014, 07:11 PM
And I agree! That's your right as a person to choose what you want to eat. Believe me, I didn't get to 200 lbs by eating broccoli. I have done more than my share of non nutritional eating. My point is that by eating more and more vegetables, I have found myself craving healthy foods more and not craving sweets etc. That's not to say I never eat them, but I no longer have to fight to stay away from them. If there is anyone reading this forum who has a problem with sugar cravings that reads my message and decides to try it for themselves, then I've helped someone. Maybe it would work for them, maybe not, but I am NOT trying to make everyone give up the foods they love or eat foods that they do not care for. I wouldn't like it if someone did that to me.

I like to think I eat a very varied diet, as a human though I tend to stick to my tried an true favorites, I can easily be satisfied by a nice sandwich or a good sandwich for lunch or by a fresh omelette with spinach an mushrooms for breakfast. So I tend to stick to it. I've never found that the more veggies I eat the more I crave them. I just happen to eat a lot of veggies cause I like them and always have. But it has never gotten rid of my like for other foods. Maybe I don't know what you mean by craving. I'm not trying to split hairs or challenge your diet or anything like that, I find it fascinating to keep what others like to eat and why. I indulge all my cravings. I perceive it as hunger. Much like I don't like to put value on my character based on why I eat I also don't judge my cravings as good or bad.

Pinkhippie
07-01-2014, 11:16 PM
Personally, I don't want to live in a world where I eat only to meet "nutritional needs". That's like having sex only to have babies.

Down that path lays "goop", like they served in The Matrix:

"It's a single celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs."

Or Soylent, like they are starting to serve in the real world.

Give me chocolate AND broccoli any day.

:high: High five for the Matrix reference! My husband loves those movies and we just had to watch them for the millionth time the other day.

Anyway, I think I already weighed in on this. Just had to pop in for that. :)

Mrs Snark
07-02-2014, 09:01 AM
I laughed when I saw these this morning... look at those chocolatey tentacles!

I'm going to provide a link to the photo since I don't want to trigger anybody who is trying to wean themselves off sugary stuff.

Alien Yum Yums (http://www.boredpanda.com/confectionery-baking-art-christine-mcconnell/)

On the veggies and sweets topic: I eat alot of veggies and really enjoy them (thank goodness, or being a vegan would be tough) and do actually crave certain dishes that are primarily veggies. It did take a while to develop these cravings, prior to being vegan I wasn't that much of a veggie fan. I've been surprised at how taste buds can change over time.

I still looooove sweets and junk food and it all still tastes fantastic to me as well. I have found that now I have a sort of "craving threshold" for these foods. The less I eat them, the less cravings for them I have. When I do eat them, I can dabble in them a little and not awaken major cravings. Dabble in them too much, however, and I'm right back to fixating on Swedish fish and dreaming of Newman O's at night.

It's a fine line.

So sometimes when I want the chocolate, I eat the chocolate. Sometimes I eat the apple instead and put off the chocolate to another time. I'd like both the apple and the chocolate to have a place in my life.

Wannabehealthy
07-02-2014, 03:27 PM
I like to think I eat a very varied diet, as a human though I tend to stick to my tried an true favorites, I can easily be satisfied by a nice sandwich or a good sandwich for lunch or by a fresh omelette with spinach an mushrooms for breakfast. So I tend to stick to it. I've never found that the more veggies I eat the more I crave them. I just happen to eat a lot of veggies cause I like them and always have. But it has never gotten rid of my like for other foods. Maybe I don't know what you mean by craving. I'm not trying to split hairs or challenge your diet or anything like that, I find it fascinating to keep what others like to eat and why. I indulge all my cravings. I perceive it as hunger. Much like I don't like to put value on my character based on why I eat I also don't judge my cravings as good or bad.

This was the "me" before. I like chocolate, but it has to be plain chocolate candy...no Snickers or Milky Way, just plain like a Hershey Bar or my favorite...Hershey's Kisses. I used to buy a big bag of Hershey's Kisses with the intention of eating a couple of them each day. Yeah, right. I could finish off that bag in a day or two days was really stretching it. Just sit there and eat them one right after another. If I made chocolate chip cookies, half of the chips never made it into the cookies. I was out of control. Remember, I'm diabetic and this is really a disastrous thing to do! One day I read a book about the importance of vegetables and how eating lots of vegetables can take away your cravings for sweets. I started eating a lot of vegetables and trying new ones that I had never tried before. At the beginning I was still eating what I call "junk food." But gradually, I noticed I was not interested in it anymore. It's hard to explain. It's not that they taste terrible to me, I just prefer other things. I don't consider myself to be this pious person who never eats sweets. The weight is not falling off, and that's because I still have issues with portion control. I guess to me a problem with cravings is when someone says they can't keep cookies in the house for their kids because they will eat them all. Or they go shopping for healthy groceries and end up with a carton of ice cream or a bag of potato chips in their cart. It's something they don't want to do but they seem not to be able to control it. To me, that doesn't include people, like you, who eat a variety of foods which just so happens to include sweets.

Sorry that this is so long and drawn out, but we have butted head about this in the past and I think it's good that we are airing our differences and understanding each other's point of view. We are all entitled to our opinions and to do what works best for us.

Wannabeskinny
07-02-2014, 03:43 PM
I don't feel like we are butting heads at all, I think it's an interesting discussion about how we perceive the word "cravings." I've definitely been a dieter in the past and that was my method of dealing with it - by getting rid of it! My method of overcoming cravings in a real way was to give in to them without guilt or regret. You and others already know that about IE though lol, it's the most contentious aspect of the process. Unfortunately it's not one of those things you can "try doing" for a while like cutting calories and going gluten free as a trial. Those types of trials are physical and immediate. While giving into cravings is more psychological and emotional. It's terrifying and if its done with doubts and reservations it absolutely does not work!!

So I used to define cravings as sudden urges to eat a forbidden food that would make be bad, weak, out of control etc. I would often be afraid of eating just one because it led to a binge. It was overwhelming fear and I'm just shocked that the process of indulging has led me to feeling neutral about those foods. Sometimes I get a craving, I eat a piece, and move on without regret. I know that is really difficult to understand for most people and I don't quite understand it myself yet but it's amazing all the same. I'll take it!

With dietary restrictions like diabetes I can understand you don't have that same level of freedom to indulge and experiment. So I can't make any assertions as to how it works but I know others that have done it all the same.

GlamourGirl827
07-02-2014, 06:37 PM
I came late to the thread, but then I see everyone came back for some more chit chat :)

First, Mrs. Snark, love the scenarios. I enjoy creative writing, and I think the humor helps to lighten something that is, for me, frustrating (my whole relationship with food).

My scenarios, which I'm serious about though, seem to encompass every possibility. I have been there, WannaB, and that is very much an issue for me.

I want the chocolate. But I chose the carrots instead. But I'm not satisfied, so I then choose the celery...and well, about 10 healthy snacks later, I'm eating the chocolate. I cannot NOT eat it. I cannot ignore it. If it is in the house, I will eat it.

Sometimes though I want the chocolate, so I eat it, and for good measure I eat the carrots and celery afterwards...and a sandwich...and a pineapple...and shrimp tartar....The chocolate (or ice cream, or other sweets) are a trigger for me. It cannot be in the house, with me, and all the other food, unsupervised. Out in public I can splurge, where I will not run the risk of going from table to table in a restaurant, eating everyone's meal. I will not binge in public. Often by the time I get home, the worst of the urge has passed, but I do have a difficult time for days afterwards.


Because of this, I cannot keep any trigger foods in the house. I cannot indulge on them at home. I've tried it over and over for 20 years. Its not happening for me.