Hey, guys. Back with an update for the original post I made last week. That post is called "How Do I Help My 350 Pound Friend?" Sorry, I can't post a link here, because I am new.
A quick note about my lack of response...
I checked shortly after I had posted that and there were no replies. Thought I was getting email alerts when somebody posted, but I didn't get any, so I assumed nobody had replied. Then the holiday weekend came...
Not an excuse; just don't want you guys to think I am a troll. Would be happy to share more info to prove that, but as this is connected to my friend, I don't want to post it publicly. Perhaps there is a trusted member here who can contact me via PM and I can send it to him/her, so I can get somebody to vouch for me?
Thank you for all the thoughtful responses. I have read them all and have a few comments and also clarifications.
First of all, I found Jiffypop's story very inspiring. It is nice to know that there is hope.
A few people mentioned that I was looking to "change" my friend rather than help her. Is it not possible to do both?
Strangely enough, I got a call from my friend this morning. Turns out she is on this message board and saw this post!! We talked about this issue.
I am not trying to "change" her-- like ask her to dye her hair blonde or start a new hobby. She is her own person and I try to support what she likes to do and encourage her on those things. My concern is that, is she doesn't turn around her health situation, she will deteriorate.
And yes, I would be in an uncomfortable situation should something happen to her, but I am also thinking about the impact on the world. I know that sounds crazy, but this woman is such a beautiful spirit. She has so much to give (like the qualities I mentioned in my original post-- empathy, a good listener, smart) and, in my opinion, her health situation is robbing humanity of all of these things.
Yes, it's her choice to do whatever she wants with her body, but I come from the school of thought that you have a responsibility to do everything you can with the talent that you have and anything less is a disservice.
Yes, I am trying to help her. She was in my city for a month last year and I got her a gym membership. Each night, I would pick her up and we'd go walk for a hour.
Is this pressure? Maybe. I looked at is as "we're in this together and I'm a partner with you."
She was getting results. I was AMAZED at how much she improved from Day 1 to Day 30 and I want more, since I know she can do this!! Still, seeing that potential is a double-edged sword, because now I know what CAN happen when she sticks with something and I can get frustrated when she doesn't.
I have thought about bringing her here for six months, so we can do something similar for a longer period of time. Not to put pressure on her or be a bootcamp, but just to offer her support and let her know she is not alone, much like this message board does. Still looking at that.
A few other random thoughts...
Is she ready? - Somebody mentioned that you have to be "ready" to make the change." I think she is closer than she ever has been. Again though, I have heard these things before and, like a battered wife, I want to believe that the future won't be like the past, so I get excited, but I'm also on pins and needles.
Her finding the original post was painful, but in the end, I think it will be good, because it opens discussion and allows each of us to be heard. It also shows she is here working on things!! And I thank all of you for responding, since I now have a different perspective on what is happening. I hope that I can also provide that for you, as somebody who is on the outside, looking (and judging) what I know is a very personal issue.
Speaking of judgement, that was a word that came up a lot. I am not trying to sit here and judge; I am simply frustrated. I am used to making things happen, fixing things, etc. I am the guy who covers for everybody, but this is a situation that I am unable to do that with. Yes, it's me, not her.
Question for you-- when does support become enabling?
I understand that acceptance is very important, but let's say she was an heavy drinker. It wouldn't so somebody like that any good for me to say, "You're not an alcoholic, it's totally normal for you to drink a couple of beers for breakfast!!"
Will be better at responding to comments from now on. Thank you for your honest answers. I am learning a lot about acceptance and appreciate your thoughtful replies!!
If your friend is a fellow 3FC member (and I tip my hat to her), then she's also going to see this post. I hope you considered how -that- will also make her feel and whether it's going to help or harm your friendship. You say you think it will be good, but from my seat I only see the seeds of mistrust. I would not want to discuss my weight loss journey with someone who would turn around and broadcast it on a forum.
You cannot fix a person, because people aren't broken. They just have problems that they need to learn to address themselves. The most we can do is encourage and be supportive.
You say all these wonderful things about her and then say "but she's overweight" as if that somehow undoes all of the wonderful things she truly is. Frankly, that's insulting, as the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. It's the "but you have such a pretty face" compliment. Imagine for a moment: "She has this bright, shining personality...but she's a smoker." My reply would be, "So?" and therefore my reply to all that is "So?"
If she's robbing anyone of anything, it's herself of her own health... something she already recognizes as she's doing something about it.
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Still, seeing that potential is a double-edged sword, because now I know what CAN happen when she sticks with something and I can get frustrated when she doesn't.
It's one thing to encourage walks, or being active together. It's quite another to have expectations for another person's weight loss journey. She is an adult. She can handle expecting herself to do things, or choose for a variety of reasons to do otherwise. As much as you might believe you are seeing the whole of it, you aren't. You don't know what she chooses to do in private, even if she shares with you, you will never know the whole of it.
I don't need anyone who has never been in my situation to tell me what they see from the outside. So often, they have absolutely no idea. They think they do. They think they get it. They think they understand. In reality, they have an idea of what it should be like, and get frustrated with me when I correct them on what my situation is.
"You have no lines in this play" comes to mind from an amusing Scrubs episode.
Support and enabling are no where near the same. If you want to stick with the drinking analogy (even though it's not really a great analogy)... Support would be giving a friend a hug after they mention going to AA. Enabling would be buying them a six pack. No where near the same thing.
I still think it's wonderful that you do want to help, but you have to take a serious look at how much your help is wanted... and whether some of these things are any of your business. If you really want to help, it's your job to follow HER lead.
I'd also think twice about posting more about her journey without discussing it further with her first. She really might not appreciate it.
As I continued to read your post I started to wonder if you were a male and noticed you were. I am not trying to be mean or judgemental of you but it sounds like you are trying to control your 'Friend'. Then it makes me wonder if you have feelings for her? or would like to be with her but her weight is an issue for you? If this is the case it will never work for you and you will make her feel like a child. When we are overwieght we are extrememly aware of this and can struggle so much becuase of it emotionally. I was 130 when i met my exhusband and all he did was critizise me but i learned that this was his problem not mine.
Do yourself a favor and if she is your freind accept her for who she is. I can guarentee you she knows she has a problem. Being accepted by our freinds means everything to us.
I had written a very long response to your first thread and I couldn't post it. Actually, more accurately, I wouldn't post it. 3FC is my safe haven and I feel very protective of this community. I really didn't want to add more venom to an already volatile thread. With that said, I've gotta say that your issues with her are your problem...not hers. I agree with what so many others have said and I hope you honestly take their advice to heart because it was honest, sage advice. Your friend sounds like a great person and that should be what you see when you look at her, not her body.
The thing about helping people is they kind of have to ask for the help first, otherwise its just you pushing her down a road instead of her walking it with her head held high and you being there at the finish line with flowers. It would be like 2 lawyers getting married, having a child who desperately wants to be a musician, and they push said child into law school anyway. The kid doesn't want to disappoint the parents and goes along with it but never truly gives it his all because it's not what he wanted for his life. On the other side, if those parents were supportive and sent said child to school for music, perhaps that kid would have excelled, made friends who are in the same situation, and ended up achieving his goals on his own. Does that make sense? Its the same thing for weight loss. You can't live her life for her. Try to understand that you can't 'fix' being overweight. Even if she lost every pound that she needs to meet her goal she will still face this battle every day during maintenance. It won't magically disappear for her, and that's where the support comes in. She might never fit into the box you want her to fit in, she might never be the person you want her to be. You can either accept it or move on, because she's a human being, not a lump of clay, and she deserves respect, compassion, and to be treated with humanity. Its good to care, to want to be there and support her. I applaud you for that. Now you need to find where that "over stepping my bounds" line is, and only she can tell you that.
@Lovely- While I agree with the theory behind what you said about the smoking thing, I feel it's a different situation and here's why: second hand smoke kills while my being fat isn't physically killing anyone but me. I have asthma and vasomotor rhinitis (often miscalled "smoke allergies"). Basically if someone smokes around me it triggers a massive asthma attack where I feel like I'm instantly suffocating. I was walking home from my sisters house a few weeks back and walked by a smoker. I tried like **** to hold my breath until I was passed her but didn't quite make it since I was walking in the opposite direction as the smoker and the smoke had left a nice long trail behind her. I choked and started gasping for air while trying desperately to find my inhaler. She turned around and called me a b!@#$, thinking I was being a drama queen instead of having a serious medical emergency. I for the life of me cannot recall a time where my weight put someone's life in jeopardy so to me it's not the same thing. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I don't mean to hijack the thread here, but if we are talking about trying to be more aware of what others go through then this fits in with that topic.
@Lovely- While I agree with the theory behind what you said about the smoking thing, I feel it's a different situation and here's why: second hand smoke kills while my being fat isn't physically killing anyone but me.[ ... ]Perhaps I'm wrong, and I don't mean to hijack the thread here, but if we are talking about trying to be more aware of what others go through then this fits in with that topic.
Smoking, excessive drinking and being overweight are often compared, but they are not exactly the same thing. You're right. They never will be.
However, I find some of the situations to be similar. My reason for using smoking was to compare it as a vice. Not as a step-by-step comparison. "So and so is great... but they have a minor vice." No one's perfect, but a vice does not mean that it undoes all the good they do. That was the point of the paragraph.
Smoking, excessive drinking and being overweight are often compared, but they are not exactly the same thing. You're right. They never will be.
However, I find some of the situations to be similar. My reason for using smoking was to compare it as a vice. Not as a step-by-step comparison. "So and so is great... but they have a minor vice." No one's perfect, but a vice does not mean that it undoes all the good they do. That was the point of the paragraph.
That's why I said I agree with the theory behind what you said. I got the point 100% and I totally agree. For me it's more like "so and so is awesome... but they have tattoos." I hear you on the vice thing and of course no one is perfect. I guess I should have summed it up as I have had to say "sorry I can't hang out with you if you are a smoker because it can land me in the hospital" and that is not the same shallow thinking as saying "you have piercings, I don't like piercings, get rid of them or we can't be friends." That's all I meant.
I hadn’t been to this forum in ages and came by to check on new threads and thought about getting back into trying to participate in the exercise thread on a regular basis. I happened to see the “How Do I Help My 350 Pound Friend?” thread and thought I would probably have something of value to add to the discussion.
Imagine my total surprise as I was reading the original post thinking, “Wow, this sounds a lot like my situation,” and then, by nearly the end, knowing full well the post was about me.
At the core, my friend’s intentions were good ones. Everything he wrote are things he has repeatedly said to me. I don’t think he knew I come to this forum from time to time.
Even though what he wrote wasn’t anything new, reading it in a public forum was shocking. I was also hurt and incredibly embarrassed.
There are so many things I want to say to counter what he wrote about me. However, I will refrain because it would just be too weird to continue giving everyone an insider’s view of an obviously dysfunctional friendship.
For the sake of my pride, I do want to clear up a few things:
My friend and I are polar opposites when it comes to the physical.
I’m 5’2 and weigh over 300lbs. He’s 6’3 and weighs 180. He has been doing yoga for over ten years and goes to the gym three times a week. I spend the majority of my waking hours in front of my computer.
He said I can’t fit in between two parked cars. That’s his assumption. I’ve never had an issue with (nor gotten stuck between) parked cars.
He had written something about us not being able to fly on a plane together. We’ve actually been on the same plane twice. While I do have to use a seatbelt extension, I can put the arm rest down. However, I choose to buy two seats because I don’t want to cause anyone else any discomfort because of my excess weight.
There are many reasons why I have accumulated the weight that I have. If I were to get down to it, for various reasons, for most of my life, I’ve felt a great deal of guilt and shame just for the fact that I exist. For many, many years I always used food to keep myself numb while completely ignoring my body in favor of sharpening my intellect. My story isn’t unique. I’m sure many of you can relate.
When my friend tells me how things could be so much better if I would lose weight, the guilt and shame come right back to the surface. It’s a constant battle between wanting to lose weight so I can experience that, supposed, “better” and yet feeling so worthless and like such a failure because I let myself get to be like this only to have my one friend be mad at me for it.
I wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who posted on the original thread and to those who posted on this one. I read every, single word. Your responses did impact me.
I want to thank everyone who showed kindness and understanding to my friend. He just wanted to (wants to) connect with people who understand the situation (because everyone in his life is thin) and get some insight that would bring him some peace of mind. I can’t say that anything anyone wrote really made much of an impact on him. I think he fiercely holds on to his beliefs and opinions. I do think he gained some awareness. I do believe he is committed to try to think and behave differently.
Him coming here and posting may, to some, seem like not such a good idea. I do know he cares about me very much. We are extremely close and he is deeply afraid that I will die too soon and he will have to deal with profound loss.
If he chooses to stick around, I hope you guys will continue to answer his questions and set him straight on things.
As for me, right now, I just feel deeply sad. I’m not angry at my friend for sharing as much as he did, I just feel…ashamed.
There are many reasons why I have accumulated the weight that I have. If I were to get down to it, for various reasons, for most of my life, I’ve felt a great deal of guilt and shame just for the fact that I exist. For many, many years I always used food to keep myself numb while completely ignoring my body in favor of sharpening my intellect. My story isn’t unique. I’m sure many of you can relate.
Thank you SO much for posting to this thread! I know I cannot tell someone how to feel, but there is no reason to feel ashamed for who you are. Your weight does not define you. You are an intelligent, creative, articulate, person who is so much more than your body size. I really appreciate your bravery and strength in coming forward and posting.
Before I was ready to take off the weight, no one, how ever well intentioned, could convince me or "help" me to do so. I lost some friends and lovers when I gained all this weight, but those that accepted me fully, and let me go through my own internal process at my own pace, will be in my life forever.
And David, I think we all have seen the movie "My Fair Lady" or read "Pygmalion". You want to create the perfect friend, to sculpt her into your image of perfection, and to "support" her on the road to reaching your definition of "healthy". Wendy is not a doll, a science project, a ball of clay, or a contestant on "The Biggest Loser". I think instead of getting a plan together for how to "fix" your friend, it might help to examine your own motives for why you want to rebuild your friend from scratch into your own image.
I guess I should have summed it up as I have had to say "sorry I can't hang out with you if you are a smoker because it can land me in the hospital" and that is not the same shallow thinking as saying "you have piercings, I don't like piercings, get rid of them or we can't be friends." That's all I meant.
Ah! Yes. I think we're on the same page about the theory and idea, then Thanks for expanding on it!
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Originally Posted by Wendy J
As for me, right now, I just feel deeply sad. I’m not angry at my friend for sharing as much as he did, I just feel…ashamed.
Again, thank you.
3FC is around mainly for those looking to lose weight, and get healthier in general at our own pace and through our own means. While at the same time allowing a very open and understanding community to give support and feedback.
Not everyone has the same path, but so many of us DO know down to our cores what it's like being overweight. We know it. We live it daily. We've lived it for years. Sometimes since we were children, sometimes since we became adults, but we still know.
My concern is that while I don't mind gently trying to help broaden someone else's views on things, or give my side of a story (even if it doesn't broaden anything besides my flapping mouth in the wind), I do not want those topics to alienate people who would most benefit from the kind of caring community that is 3FC.
The fact that this all made you feel ashamed makes me very sad. Shame so often just makes things worse. I don't want for you to avoid what I think should be a safe haven free from shame.
Forget everything else for the moment. If YOU want to talk, we're all ears via the threads or PMs. And if you'd prefer that these threads be closed or deleted, then I'm positive the mods would be most happy to help with that, too.
I have to also say that your weight does not define YOU. I would also feel the same way if a "friend" did what he did to you. I would also feel very very <insert some more VERYs> angry. Allow yourself to feel those feelings. Write them down. PM me what you've written if you want to send it to someone.
Meanwhile.... change your nick (nor not), join us on the Monthly Thread and share some of the joys and pains of our lives.
When people cope with things in destructive ways, it is kind of a friend's responsibility to get involved or at least strongly encourage a healthier alternative. I've been on the wrong side of that plenty of times, and I always reacted with anger and disgust at other people's interference. They didn't understand why I was doing the things I was doing, so I felt like they were not justified in their actions. However, in reality, what drives self destructive behavior or where it originated is really nowhere near as important as what little thing you can do today to improve your condition and feel better. Sometimes when you are in deep into something, you need somebody else to show you the way out.
I do agree that only the person in question has the right to make the decision. But my friends didn't stop recommending that I change my destructive ways simply because I chose not to listen and instead to shove my head in the sand and make excuses and claim they were "judging" me. They weren't, they were simply trying to aid me in correcting the issue and they eventually did.
And just because you may have an issue with something such as weight or anything else doesn't diminish your worth as a person or your positive characteristics. However, that issue can diminish your quality of life, and while it is your life to live, a friend can really help to improve the situation. Just because they want to help with problem behaviors doesn't mean they are rejecting any other aspect of you as a person.
It's nice that you care, but you've already spoken up re: your concerns re: Wendy's weight. Probably too many times.
At this point, the healthiest thing you could do is focus on your own problems. I'm serious. When I see people this invested in changing/controlling/"helping" their friends and family, it almost always means they're neglecting the bugaboos in their own lives.
We all have them. They're part of being human. I don't know you. So, I don't know where you 'need' to make changes. Maybe you've got a credit card habit and a pile of financial debts. Maybe you're in a dead end career. Maybe you've got a great career, but it's sucking up the rest of your life. Maybe you've got kids, and your relationship with your kids is not so great. Whatever it is, turn your concern and energy on yourself. Work on yourself. And let your friends do their own work.
By the way, I do think there's a time and place to point out to someone you love that they're hurting themselves. Once. And there's a time to give advice. That time is when they ask for it. Anything else is nagging and/or manipulating. Stop it. Your friendship is worth more than that.
When people cope with things in destructive ways, it is kind of a friend's responsibility to get involved or at least strongly encourage a healthier alternative. I've been on the wrong side of that plenty of times, and I always reacted with anger and disgust at other people's interference. They didn't understand why I was doing the things I was doing, so I felt like they were not justified in their actions. However, in reality, what drives self destructive behavior or where it originated is really nowhere near as important as what little thing you can do today to improve your condition and feel better. Sometimes when you are in deep into something, you need somebody else to show you the way out.
I do agree that only the person in question has the right to make the decision. But my friends didn't stop recommending that I change my destructive ways simply because I chose not to listen and instead to shove my head in the sand and make excuses and claim they were "judging" me. They weren't, they were simply trying to aid me in correcting the issue and they eventually did.
And just because you may have an issue with something such as weight or anything else doesn't diminish your worth as a person or your positive characteristics. However, that issue can diminish your quality of life, and while it is your life to live, a friend can really help to improve the situation. Just because they want to help with problem behaviors doesn't mean they are rejecting any other aspect of you as a person.
Thank you for saying this.
I am absolutely not rejecting Wendy as a person or saying that she is worthless in any way. On the contrary, it's because I think so highly of her and want to see her gifts shared with the world that I have this level of concern.
Simply put, I want her around for as long as possible.
My 350 Pound Friend - Revisited
I really appreciate your bravery and strength in coming forward and posting.
Thanks for expanding on it! 
