I'll have what she having what she's having. Cause she's high as a kite. Maybe you could share some of that leftover Valium that was getting the women of those days thru the legally sanctioned beatings they were getting off of their Ward Clever husbands.
Just as being a SAHM now (which I do love and wouldn't have any other way) probably wouldn't cut down crime...being beaten was still happening only to a minority of people back in the "olden days". My parents have almost been married 40 years now and my dad would never even think of laying a hand on her. My grandparents were married till the day my grandmother died after having had alzheimer's for 12 years. My grandfather wouldn't ever do anything to her but occasionally argue...and even then she was the louder of the two. In fact, for those 12 years he drove every day 2 hours each way in order to see her for as long as he could handle...even after she didn't know who the heck he was. He rarely missed a day and when he did he made sure that her best friend could fill in for him. My husband's grandparents would never have done anything like that and when he died she only lasted 2 weeks before she went...she didn't like being alone it seemed since she'd always been the healthier of the two. My husband's parents got married the same year my parents did. He's like my husband and may not be much of a talker but you'd be hard pressed to make him mad enough to even raise his voice.
My parents would NEVER have smacked me up the side of the head. My dad's parents (who were married for ages) weren't good parents and my grandmother was a teeny woman who had to deal with 13 kids and she would grab them by the hair if they were misbehaving...there is no way I would have wanted to grow up in that house. Even still...my dad doesn't remember his parents ever being violent with each other.
Your experience was NOT the norm for the majority of the US, but it sure as heck still happens today and isn't reported. Ok, so I worked in an orphanage in Albania and there it is expected that all wives will be beaten and women don't believe your husband isn't the cause of every bruise. Some missionaries that were running the orphanage (if you want to be thankful for what you have and realize that nothing you go through is as bad as it could be I suggest EVERYONE work with kids in a third world country) went to have dinner with a woman who worked at the orphanage. They came in and the husband was out back killing a chicken for dinner. The wife asked them something like 4 times if they'd like some water to drink. They said no...not wanting to get sick and all. When the husband came in and saw they didn't have drinks he picked his wife up and threw her against a wall for being rude.
Last edited by CaffeineIV; 08-19-2008 at 03:32 PM.
I'm all for people having their own opinions, and I try not to be judgemental when they conflict with mine.
I believe in the right to choose your lifestyle, and that no one has a right to attempt to make you feel that you are lesser because you stay home with your kids, put your kids in daycare and go to work, or whatever else you might choose/be foreced to do. Today there is a lot of juggling that is necessary just to live day to day.
But I will say that back when the majority of moms stayed home with the kids, there was less crime, less violence, fewer loose morals, and more family values, more polite behavior, more respecting your elders, and taking pride in whatever you do be it scrubbing toilets for a living or being the CEO of a company. You didn't take things for granted, and you made the most of an opportunity.
I'm with Operator. This type of nostalgia totally dismisses our cultural history of racism, anti-semitism, sexism, and homophobia. 'Loose morals' aren't the problem here. Government policies that allow employers to deny women equal pay without consequence while simultaneously eroding social programs that could allow them to care for their children at home are far more problematic in my opinion. Not to mention that with the minimum wage declining in real dollars every year thanks to corporate ownership of congress, many families have no choice but to earn at least two paychecks to get by.
We can claim that women have free choices, but let's face it, until equal pay is enforced by law, women will always be the ones who sacrifice their careers (or at least delay promotion and/or raises) to care for the children. Few families are rich enough to disregard the economic aspect of the decision.
European and Scandinavian countries that offer nurse visits, child allowances, paid maternity and paternity leave, and universal health care and child care do not suffer the levels of social problems that we do here (e.g. teen pregnancy, violent crime, drug and alcohol abuse). But these programs are just too socialist for our national taste. Still, we complain about the consequences and vote for officials that will only keep us on the same path while paying lip service to "family values".
We can claim that women have free choices, but let's face it, until equal pay is enforced by law, women will always be the ones who sacrifice their careers (or at least delay promotion and/or raises) to care for the children. Few families are rich enough to disregard the economic aspect of the decision.
European and Scandinavian countries that offer nurse visits, child allowances, paid maternity and paternity leave, and universal health care and child care do not suffer the levels of social problems that we do here (e.g. teen pregnancy, violent crime, drug and alcohol abuse). But these programs are just too socialist for our national taste. Still, we complain about the consequences and vote for officials that will only keep us on the same path while paying lip service to "family values".
Whew! I get pretty excited about this stuff.
i loved your entire post
yipper skipper. i recently did a study on women in academia sacrificing their careers in order to have children. over 90% of men in academia have children while less than 60% of women in academia have children and out of those women that do, the majority have one child. women have lost hopes of tenure just by getting pregnant. also academia still has huge pay inequity gaps. and these are supposed to be the people with the answers!
the majority of people against socialism haven't a clue what it is
p.s. there is no such thing as the good ole days.
caffeine - in regards to domestic abuse, you cannot say that the majority of homes in the US live abuse free. questions about abuse aren't part of the US census and is not something that stats are easy to come by. most cases go unreported.
I want to apologize to hotfoot for the first lines of my post. That was totally rude. Coming off graves tends to make me ignorant, but that is by no means an excuse for it. We can learn from history in dealing with present and future problems and everyone needs to be able to participate in the discussions without being attacked. Sorry.
My point wasn't that everyone was beating their wives and children, but rather that they are more able to get help now and can get out of it. My mom tried to get out for years before Dad's behavior got out of hand and he became a problem for others. Other women never did make it out and people didn't pay attention. Society and the legal system considered a Bad Father better than No Father. I was able to get out of my marriage before our problems escalated to that point.
Kudos to you ollie. Women also are not given equal opportunity to increase their pay. The mine I work at doesn't pay us less than the guys, but it's very clear that we are not considered competent to operate equipment or move up the pay scale. Oh, BTW, another woman and I have previous experience operating equipment but we can't even get tested. B scale pay is $1.35 an hour more. I've been given everything from the "you might get dirty" BS(I used to do oil changes on equipment) to "Well you are kinda outta shape and might get hurt". The might get hurt one came 2 days before I saw a guy who made me look like a skinny b***h doing the job I was asking about.
And I'm with ya 3beans. I didn't mind paying taxes to fund public schools before I had children and I'm not going to fight to stop paying after mine are done with it. I would gladly pay more in taxes to give everyone a hand when needed. I'm just tired of paying taxes and not seeing any return for our communities. But, boy the pharmaceutical industry isn't hurting. Seems to me that Socialism means people taking care of each other. That wouldn't be very patriotic I guess.
Last edited by Operator265; 08-19-2008 at 07:50 PM.
But I will say that back when the majority of moms stayed home with the kids, there was less crime, less violence, fewer loose morals, and more family values, more polite behavior, more respecting your elders, and taking pride in whatever you do be it scrubbing toilets for a living or being the CEO of a company. You didn't take things for granted, and you made the most of an opportunity.
Uh. No. There was less REPORTED crime.
Violence against women was sanctioned if that woman was your wife. Do you know that less than 25 years ago it was impossible for a man to RAPE his wife - because if you were a wife, it wasn't rape, it was marital relations?
25 years ago a white person could commit a crime against a black or a Mexican or an Asian and it most likely wouldn't be reported because authorities looked the other way.
25 years ago people who practiced alternate religions (i.e. anything but mainstream Christianity) were persecuted and often driven from their homes and physically attacked.
I do think that there's a lot of entitlement in current generations, but this rose colored view of what crime and "morals" are like these days? Puh-leeze.
Not even close.
Quote:
being beaten was still happening only to a minority of people back in the "olden days". My parents have almost been married 40 years now and my dad would never even think of laying a hand on her.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Your personal experience does NOT translate to historical facts. My parents were married for 35 years before my mom died and my dad beat her and me, several times to the extent that we both needed to go to the hospital. Does my experience trump yours? No, but historical fact and documentation says and proves that violence against women and violence against minorities was much more prevalent 25 or 30 years ago ... and much less reported ... than it is now.
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Last edited by PhotoChick; 08-19-2008 at 09:09 PM.
In fact, for those 12 years he drove every day 2 hours each way in order to see her for as long as he could handle...even after she didn't know who the heck he was. He rarely missed a day and when he did he made sure that her best friend could fill in for him. My husband's grandparents would never have done anything like that and when he died she only lasted 2 weeks before she went...she didn't like being alone it seemed since she'd always been the healthier of the two. My husband's parents got married the same year my parents did. He's like my husband and may not be much of a talker but you'd be hard pressed to make him mad enough to even raise his voice. 
