Hi, Turtles,

Here's my "official" version of Aesop's fable:

The Hare and the Tortoise

A hare met a tortoise one day and made fun of him for the slow and clumsy way in which he walked.

The tortoise laughed and said, "I will run a race with you any time that you choose."

"Very well," replied the hare, "we will start at once."

The tortoise immediately set off in his slow and steady way without waiting a moment or looking back. The hare, on the other hand, treated the matter as a joke and decided to take a little nap before starting, for she thought that it would be an easy matter to overtake her rival.

The tortoise plodded on, and meanwhile the hare overslept herself, with the result that she arrived at the winning-post only to see that the tortoise had got in before her.

Moral: Slow and steady wins the race.

This comes from a book handed down from my grandmother to my mother to me. The book is so old it doesn't have a copyright date or an author/editor's credit.

That fable has been the motivation for us turtles for several years. Someone on the ancient WW forum mentioned the fable and I discovered it was very motivational for me. I talked about it in posts and other people said that the tortoise philosophy worked for them, too. So, I started a thread for us turtle types.

We work toward accepting that our bodies have a natural speed of weight loss when we choose to live a healthy life, instead of "going on a diet". Many of us have experienced "the diets" as go on/lose weight-- go off/ gain the weight plus more back.

We choose to perservere with each choice we make throughout the day. We believe that choosing to be slow, steady turtles helps us to learn the skills we need to in order to lose and keep off the weight. Our main focus is to become the healthiest people we can be.

So, welcome to all who realize that losing and maintaining a weight loss is a lifestyle change. And who want support as we all learn the skills we need to successfully make the changes that will allow us to reach our goals.

Lin

Hi, Turtles,

Lauren, I've heard that exercise helps both stress and depression. I don't remember the walking helping me when I walked more regularly (better weather), but I think that was more because I was so exhausted all the time. As the weather gets warmer and I walk more, I'll see if the higher point range helps with the fatigue.

Good luck with that 7 pound goal. Happy tenth anniversary!

I loved your story, Torty. We should adopt Tommy as our turtle mascot.

I'm doing OK. Not great, but OK. I keep telling myself that I will get through all of this hormone stuff, but it's really hard. And I don't understand what's going on this month. It's totally weird. I have all of the PMS symptoms and my feet hurt from the excess water, but no sign of TOM. It's got to be perimenopausal issues. So, I'm taking my supplements and doing the best I can. Sigh!

Happy turtlin'!

Lin

Gack, Lin. I really feel for you. Nothing like having to endure all those symptoms for an extra length of time. Hey, I've got an idea -- let's go donate our ovaries to science! Just think, no more PMS! OK, also increased heart disease, cholesterol, osteoporosis, etc., but there's always a tradeoff, right?

Torty, thanks for the tortoise tale. I agree; we have a new mascot! Sounds like he's able to move faster than us, though.

Well, yesterday I was actually within my points for the first time in a long time. I came in at 24.5, woo-hoo! And I even did my half hour of exercise (a video). It felt very good.

Today I'm high already, but that's fine -- I still have plenty of points left to see me through dinner. And I'm about to go for a good long walk to the used book store (about 3 miles round trip) to sell some books. It's a sunny day, and it's all the way up to 40 degrees! Can spring be far behind? Well, yes, because this is Michigan. But still.

I thought I'd share an interesting comment my DH made. A few nights ago we rented "A Beautiful Mind." As we watched the heroic struggles of this man as he grapped to overcome mental illness, DH said "That's like you with your eating." That really hit me. Then we watched a documentary about John Nash (the guy in the movie), and he described his attempts to ignore the voices in his head. He was drawn to those voices, he wanted to react to them, but he knew deep down that they weren't real and that he shouldn't listen. He called it "a diet of the mind."

I suddenly saw each of us who struggle with such difficult things in a new light. It was easy for me to see John Nash as heroic. It's also now easy for me to see anyone who fights against mental illness as heroic. But after my husband's comment, I now see our own struggles in a new way.

We are, in our own ways, also heroic. This is a massive, daily, unending battle. It's not going to go away. It's not really going to get much easier, either -- or at least that's how I feel after nearly 5 years of this. To get up every day and fight -- that is heroism.

Onward and downward,

Lauren

Hi Turtles,

Lin- hope by the time you read this your TOM has arrived and your symptoms subside.

As for the exercise and stress relief etc.- I find the good feelings are not always immediate. Sometimes the first 20 minutes or so (sometimes even longer) can be a struggle and I just concentrate on getting through, but at some point the old body (dang thing has a mind of its own!!) seems to get in the groove and feels pretty o.k. When I did the Avon 3 Day walk for breast cancer in 1999 sometimes the struggle went on for hours- and the good feeling only came after- just gotta remind yourself that there is a rainbow (ie. feeling good) at the end.

Glad the little story about our Tommy was enjoyed. If I had any 'puter skills I'd post a pic of him- Will have to work on it.

Lauren- that is a super insight on daily heroic efforts. I will try to keep it in my heart. My mom struggled with depression (unfortunately she lost)- we seem to think we have to fit a form of how things should be and let those " shoulds" rule- but hey we are all different, special and with perseverence can win our own individual "races" /"battles"/etc. Comparisons can be so defeating and useless.

Looking forward to Friday (actually the end of day Friday).

Onward Turtles!!!!

Hi, Turtles,

It sounds like you are getting back on track, Lauren. Way to go!

Torty, what you said about exercise is interesting. I've never seemed to get to a point where exercising for its own sake felt good. But that's not true for things that are active, but play. I could skate or ride a bike for hours. I love to hike in the mountains or on the beach, especailly if I can take a camera. I love dance classes, too. But I don't like exercising alone. I don't mind walking alone if I'm going somewhere specific, like to the store for something we've run out of. Other than that, I really hate doing it by myself. I keep trying to get my dh to walk with me, but he won't, so I struggle on pretty haphazardly.

TOM did arrive and 6 pounds of water left over the weekend. No wonder I was so miserable!! I'm being really careful to take all of my supplements. It's the only thing that helps. I also need to make sure to drink my 2 mugs of water every day. That seems to help, too. I hope it's a long time before I have to do that again. So, things are getting back to normal and I'm not overeating anymore.

Have a great day and happy turtlin'!

Lin

Hi Turtles,

Everyone must be having a busy Monday.

Lin- that is great that you recognize how you like to be active. All sound like great activities to me. I am more of a "loner" exerciser and just happened into aerobic classes when I stumbled on a teacher I really liked. I think maybe the mindset can be "activity" versus "exercise". Our great-grandmas that lived to a ripe old age didn't take senior aerobics classes- they just worked their butts off. Sounds like for you it is maybe the opportunity to participate in the activites you enjoy that is lacking. Any possible opportunities to blend those "play" activities you enjoy into your current lifestyle? Oh wow- and that water weight- what a releif that must have been!!!!

My husband just told he that the vet want my dog to lose 15 pounds!!! He is 100 lbs now. I see him as just a big boy, but certainly don't want him to have hip problems, etc. (has no problems currently) quit an incentive for me to really up the daily walks. May be a blessing in disguise.

Later......

Hi, tortoises.

Lin, hallelujah on TOM finally arriving -- and SIX POUNDS of water???? Holy tamole! No wonder, you poor baby! Now, *that's* a true tick bloat! Jeepers. Isn't perimenopause wonderful?

Torty, wow, 15 pounds off your dog? That's more than my cats weigh. And they're not exactly svelte, either. You've got one big dog there. Walking him more often sounds like a great idea for both of you.

We've got sunshine here today, after two days (three?) of snow. So blue skies, white lawns, flocked trees. Very pretty. I much prefer winter when there's snow. I'm going to do some bookkeeping and then walk downtown to the library; something I put on reserve ages ago is in (I don't even know what it is, it was that long ago).

I'm down 2 pounds this week, thankfully. I'm surprised, since I wasn't within points some (most?) days. But grateful. I do think I can get to the 170s before our anniversary in April, but much will depend on how my body handles Lent this year. (Torty, I'm not sure when you began reading this group, but each year Orthodox Christians give up all animal products during Lent -- including meat, poultry, fish, eggs, and dairy.) I've given it some thought, and I think I'm going to continue to eat eggbeaters and fish. In addition to the usual tofu, of course.

Well, have a lovely Tuesday, everyone. I want to finish my Quicken work so I can get outside!

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/184/170s by April 17

Hi, Turtles,

Wow, Lauren. 2 pounds!!

Well, it wasn't over. The final total of PMS poundage was 7 pounds. ICK! My weight has now stabilized and I'm sure I can make some inroads in losing actual fat before I face next month's hormonal onslaught.

I hope you enjoyed your walk in the clear, but snowy weather. I'd love to have that, once in a while. I'm not sure I want to deal with cold and snow all the time. I love visiting snow, but I'm a real northern California girl. I like having mosty mild weather year round.

Torty, it's so good to have you posting. I like what you said about our great-grandmas. I bet a lot of the health issues faced by our society are due to all of the ways we've managed to get physical labor out of our lives.

I wish I could add some of those things back into my life, but until I find a job and get out of this town, I won't be able to simply because they aren't availible, cost money, or I can't get there because of my transportation issues. So, I stick with walking and sometimes do a videotape, both solitary activities because I haven't been able to find anyone who wants to join me.

I hope you enjoy your walks with your dog. If I had one, I'd love walking it. But my kitty likes to chase a leather shoelace we drag around the house. We get more exercise than she does because she patiently waits and watches until just the right moment, then she pounces and plays with it for a bit. Then she runs and hides someplace where she can watch it and wait and . . .

I've started counting points after losing my battle with Mrs. Hyde this month. Things are going well so far. Everything else in my life is pretty much the same. My kids are doing pretty well right now. My oldest is moving in with his girlfriend. They are planning to get married, but not ready to set a date. My youngest is loving his cinematography class. He's thinking about trying to get into film rather than computer games because he's not really happy with what the gaming industry is putting out right now. He thinks creating a bunch of things for people to shoot, and that's all there is in the game, is boring.

I'm still writing. I'm working on the fantasy, but back to creating the world because the next bit of story needs some background that I haven't worked out yet. The story I'm actually writing is a mystery. I discovered that if I'm working in different genres and if one story is in the background stage and the other is in the writing stage, I can work on more than one project at the same time. That's a good thing. I can work on both or, if one gets stuck and I need to let it simmer in my mind for a day or two, I have something else to work on.

Happy turtlin'!

Lin

HI Turtles,

Lauren- I forgot to ask what your challenge is with the Lent restrictions- is it that carbs come to the forefront? That is challenging to those of us who are carb sensitive (or for me who has no concept of portion control when only carbs on consumed) Tofu is great and can be made more "meat-like" when pressed, frozen, marinated, grilled, etc. I also find lentils in soups or stews to be very filling (as opposed to beans that have more of that "after-effect") Good luck in formulating a plan of attack.

Lin- I take it no Adult Ed dance or other classes thru the school system that are super cheap in your area and within walking distance? I know around here that is a super cheap way to try stuff. I am truly blessed to have the dog and great places to walk him, and I do treasure it. We do best "off leash" so that I can walk without waiting for the tree marking stuff (pee) and he can sniff and explore- so we tend to go on the local horse trails. Was stuck in the "city" yesterday and walked along the rail road tracks- that was interesting.

Have been making it a goal this week to really pack in the veggies. Combined with soups it has been very filling and really cut down on the urge to splurge. I have quite a bit of stuff in the veggie garden now, and combined with what I got at the Farmer's Market on Sunday I have a great variety and have been trying to make it interesting. Actually grilled Japanese eggplant for the first time on the weekend and it was pretty good (I've never been a big veggie griller).

Onward and downward as they say!!!

Dear Lin,
I'm sending you a lowfat limp noodle so you can hit me with it! LOL. I feel so silly for not checking in. I haven't even been able to find the time to lurk.
However, a trip to my doc and high triglycerides have got me where I want to be, which is here.
Torty--glad to hear you're with the group!
Mousie, I hope you get to intern with the rehabilitation program--it sounds incredible. Sorry your dh's relative passed away. And sorry that it leaves you alone so early in your marriage. I'm sending you hugs.
Lauren==good for you for knocking off some weight. I love that you're so close to 170's.
Lin, you're a doll for keeping this club going. Way to go! Are you kidding about the water retention? I know you're not, but egads, that's so much to deal with. Glad it's gone and glad you're doing well.
I'm not writing down points right now, but I am following a tip my sister gave me. I buy lots of little units of food that are under 100 calories. None of them need to be refrigerated and since they are premeasured, I don't eat more of them than I should. It's working nicely. Also am making a pot of chicken soup tonight that will be a lovely lunch for tomorrow.
I love you guys--keep on posting and I'll be here more often again. I promise.
Judy

Judy, there you are! I've missed you. Sorry about the high triglycerides. Whatta pain. What did the doc tell you to do? Eat less fat? My triglycerides were great (about 100) but my LDL cholesterol was waaaay up there. Bleah! I still haven't been retested. Let's help each other, OK?

Torty, yup, my problem with Lent is too many carbs. Even the proteins are carb based. (Tofu, beans) You have veggies in your garden??? Boy, it's tough hanging out with you California chicks this time of year. Sheesh! I have a hard time getting in the veggies in the winter. Pale tomatoes, etc. I really need to figure out some more ways to cook vegetables.

Lin, I agree with your son. Most video games are very boring -- bang, bang, pow, pow. I recently played Myst III, which was great. Also a couple of other more fantasy style games, obviously more geared toward women/girls. No shooting. I also think that the gaming industry probably looks more enticing to younger people.

SEVEN pounds?? Ay carumba! That's inhuman. Have you tried taking herbal diuretics? I found they helped during PMS/TOM. They're gentle, not habit-forming.

Yesterday was an AWFUL food day. I grazed all day, didn't write it down. No idea why I do that sometimes. Today I started the day with a video workout, which felt good. Tonight we're having steak, though (last chance before Lent), and tomorrow we're having fried chicken with friends. And scotch! (Yes, it's those friends.) Sunday is a meaty potluck. Then -- wham, no more meat. (We phase gradually into Lent -- first no meat, then after another week, no dairy or eggs or fish.) So all that combined with entering into PMS says that I probably won't see good things on the scale next week. But I don't want to make that an excuse to go nuts with food, like I did yesterday. So I'm writing it all down again today.

Have a great Friday, everyone.

Onward and downward,

Lauren

Hi, Turtles,

Hey, Judy! It's so great to hear from you again. I'm sorry that you had to hear bad news from your doctor. I hope we can help you stick with a food plan that will help you improve that triglyceride level.

Your idea of having preportioned food around is a good one. Just check the labels and make sure you're not getting hidden "bad stuff", like trans fats, that can do more harm than good. Good luck to you.

Torty, I love your idea about Adult Ed and if I still lived in San Jose, I'd be there. Here, Adult Ed is mainly stuff like teaching English to the Spanish-speaking population and helping those who didn't graduate get their high school diploma. Here, it's about getting enough money to pay the bills. People don't have time for the fun stuff. It's a strange culture for me. I'm surviving. My family, my writing, and my internet buddies keep me from going totally nuts.

Soup! You've discovered one of my secret weapons. I usually have a huge pot of bean and veggie soup in the fridge. I'm planning to keep some leftover cooked meats and poultry to add to the soup at lunch. I could keep my points down and be more full with a hearty soup, salad, whole wheat bread of some sort and fruit. I'm also planning to use my crock pot more often. I can get it set up and then if I get into my writing and lose track of time, I don't have to worry about dinner.

Lauren, you might try Arcanum, a Sierra game. It's about 2 years old. It may take some tweaking to get it to run, mainly updating your drivers and Direct X, if they're not current. You also have to defragment your hard drive frequently, but it's worth it. There is some combat, but that's not the emphasis of the game. The emphasis is on story. It's kind of like a novel, but not with a strict preset storyline. You can go wherever you want and do the quests in any order. It's more replayable than most fantasy RPG's too. Your character choice actually makes a difference in how the game goes. So playing it more than once with different characters gives you some different quests and changes how some of the main events happen. Although it's not a puzzle game, like Myst, there are some puzzles and you really have to think to figure out what the best choices are in each situation. The world is really unique. There's magic in a Victorian-era world. And there's technology. I think you might like that one. I got a copy for my son for Christmas at Electronic Boutique for $20. You might be able to find it for less now. Have fun!

Maybe, Lauren, you need to plan to have an off day, oh, once or twice a month. Then you can tell yourself that you will have whatever on that day, but for today, you need to make these choices, the ones that will keep you OP. I don't know if that would work. But if you promise yourself an off day, stick to it. That doesn't mean you have to go nuts or over points, but that you get to eat what you want on the day you planned to as your off day. It's up to you whether you want to try to manage your portions to stay within points or whatever. It's a little game. It might help. One or two days a month won't stop your weight loss.

I know that Lent is always a problem for you. I wish I could wave my magic fairy godmother wand and make your body respond to beans and tofu the way it does to meat so you'd struggle less. But I still think that knowing how your body reacts, if I were you, I'd aim to maintain or lose much more slowly during Lent.

So, things are back to normal for me. I ate closer to WW's points yesterday than to my personal range. I just didn't want any more food than that. That's typical after a Mrs. Hyde month. It looks like I'm going to be pretty close to the low end of my range today. The weather has not been cooperative, so I haven't been walking as much as I would like. I need to go to the store today which will get a walk in. It looks like our sunshine is back.

Gotta go. Happy turtlin'!

Lin

DEar All,
Lauren, I'll help as much as possible. My triglycerides were in the 300 range. Whoops! The doc said from gaining weight and too many carbs. So I'm using this month to lose weight and up protein, while reining in carbs. Unfortunately my head isn't into what my body needs to do. Sometimes I feel like I'm twins!
As far as Lent, how much is this mandated by your religion and how much of this is something you willingly sacrifice? I remember how tough Lent is for you and am wondering if you can approach Lent in a different way this year. We are able to do charitable events instead of giving up foods and that helps me.
LIn, always glad to hear what you have to say. That hearty veggie and bean soup sounds great. It sure is filling and that is half the battle. I used to think that hunger had little to do with my eating. I thought that I was a crave and volume eater. Now I realize that when I am not hungry, I can discipline myself not to eat. I know that sounds like a "doh" moment for most of you, but this is coming to me now.
Torty, how is everything going? Good luck to you.
Everbody take care.
Love,
Judy

Hi, turtles. Another cold but sunny day here in Michigan. We got down to -4 degrees last night! That's below zero for you California surfer chicks. DH and I went for a walk yesterday afternoon and couldn't believe how cold it was. Today is supposed to just get up to 18, but it looks like at least the wind has died down some. If there's no wind, the temps are much more bearable. After I finish this note, I plan to throw my laptop into my backpack and walk downtown to do some work at the library. It's too sunny to stay inside! I do love a clear blue sky, bright sunshine reflecting off brilliant white snow.

Well, my eating hasn't been good the past few days. I knew it wouldn't be, and it wasn't. Today I've been writing it down again, even though I sure don't want to! I don't like facing the fact that I've had 19 points already today. But my body keeps track even when I don't, and my larger pants are now tight. Some of that is PMS bloat, but some of it sure isn't.

Today is the first day of no meat. (We can still eat dairy until next Monday, when full Lent begins.) Judy, to answer your question, the Orthodox do tend to fast from all animal products during Lent. Good works and other sacrifices are considered more important (as well as something we should be doing all the time), but it really isn't a question whether people fast or not. They do. At least in most parishes. Many people just do partial fasts, like I'm probably going to do this year. The Church has a number of Bible readings this time of year about not judging another person, and about how eating all things is "lawful," but that it's good to fast. So the idea is -- don't worry about what other people eat or don't eat; just focus on drawing closer to God. Fast, pray, give to the poor, help the needy. Nobody asks you if you ate any chicken last week.

I've found, though, that fasting has really helped me grow. When it's done not so much for health reasons but to draw closer to God, it's a very powerful thing. That's why I'm not willing to give it up, even though I kvetch about it and don't lose weight when I do it.

Judy, did I tell you what DH's triglycerides were? 49!!!! He eats a ton, too. It's a good thing I love him, or I'd kill him. (It doesn't hurt that he's constantly active.) That's interesting that your doc said it was partly a result of eating too many carbs. I didn't know carbs raised triglycerides.

Lin, thanks for the Arcanum suggestion. I'll check it out. As for the day off thing ... probably also a very good idea. Right now my goal is to get regular again about writing things down. Once I'm back in that flow, I'll look at picking times when I won't limit myself. I probably couldn't do it more often than once a month if I want to lose weight, though. We'll see. Good for you eating in your WW range!! I sure know how tough that is.

Kathy, Mousie, Torty, everyone else -- hello, and let us know how it's going.

Onward and downward,

Lauren

Hi all turtles,

Crazy at work and gotta run to do Little League snack shop duty (luckily none of the food holds any appeal). Food is o.k.- no junk food at all-but having some portion issues....... Catch up with you tomorrow.