Turtle Club #90
 

Hi, Turtles,

Here's my "official" version of Aesop's fable:

The Hare and the Tortoise

A hare met a tortoise one day and made fun of him for the slow and clumsy way in which he walked.

The tortoise laughed and said, "I will run a race with you any time that you choose."

"Very well," replied the hare, "we will start at once."

The tortoise immediately set off in his slow and steady way without waiting a moment or looking back. The hare, on the other hand, treated the matter as a joke and decided to take a little nap before starting, for she thought that it would be an easy matter to overtake her rival.

The tortoise plodded on, and meanwhile the hare overslept herself, with the result that she arrived at the winning-post only to see that the tortoise had got in before her.

Moral: Slow and steady wins the race.

This comes from a book handed down from my grandmother to my mother to me. The book is so old it doesn't have a copyright date or an author/editor's credit.

That fable has been the motivation for us turtles for several years. Someone on the ancient WW forum mentioned the fable and I discovered it was very motivational for me. I talked about it in posts and other people said that the tortoise philosophy worked for them, too. So, I started a thread for us turtle types.

We work toward accepting that our bodies have a natural speed of weight loss when we choose to live a healthy life, instead of "going on a diet". Many of us have experienced "the diets" as go on/lose weight-- go off/ gain the weight plus more back.

We choose to perservere with each choice we make throughout the day. We believe that choosing to be slow, steady turtles helps us to learn the skills we need to in order to lose and keep off the weight. Our main focus is to become the healthiest people we can be.

So, welcome to all who realize that losing and maintaining a weight loss is a lifestyle change. And who want support as we all learn the skills we need to successfully make the changes that will allow us to reach our goals.

:chef: Lin

Hi, Turtles,

Erin, thanks for the kudos. I needed some. PMS is doing it's usual number on my head and I'm not thinking about this clearly. I'm torn between wanting and not wanting to do it. I know that's PMS talking because once it's over, I get back to my normal attitude.

What you're saying about insulin storing the fat first, then using it for energy may be true, but I'm having trouble believing that the explanation and solution is that simple because of a few things that don't make sense to me. First, why doesn't a simple chemical reaction like that affect everyone the same way. Granted, there are definite differences in people's bodies, but it seems like there should be some evidence of this problem in everyone who eats these foods.

I also wonder about cultures that thrive on these foods, particularly pasta, potatoes, white rice, etc. without the problem of overweight and having trouble taking pounds off. It seems to be a particularly American thing or maybe a Western thing. Why don't they experience these same symptoms if that's what makes it difficult to lose weight. Heck, why don't they gain in the first place?

I don't have a problem with the idea that heavily processed foods like refined sugar and white flour may be a problem. Our biology developed around foods fresh from wherever we could find, hunt, or grow them. But--I have a huge problem with natural foods like potatoes and fruits being in that category. Those foods have always been a part of the human diet, so why would they be a problem?

My last issue is simply that I have always been skeptical of any diet that says we should avoid one particular category of foods. It seems to me that if avoiding x foods was the answer, then everyone who followed these theories would get thin, stay thin, and be healthy. But they don't. So far, there has never been a diet that works that well.

I'm not saying that SB is a bad diet, just that I have questions. I haven't researched it enough to have an opinion. But I'm not sure it's the cure-all, either. I ought to read their book and do more research to see if they answer the questions that bother me.

It's funny, Erin, I always score pretty high as a carb addict, but I don't have a real sweet tooth. (Except during PMS.) I'm ok with not eating sweets, although I can get into the habit of doing so. If I decide not to eat them, I can stop and it doesn't bother me. But--don't take away my potatoes and pasta and bread. That requirement is why I will most likely never do a diet like Sugar Busters. :)

Wow, Kathy. You are really turning into an exercise fiend! I was in my old neighborhood in San Jose last Friday when we took my son back to college. They're opening a Curves within walking distance of my old apartment. Just another reason I wish I was still back there. I hated the apartment itself, but I loved the neighborhood.

Despite PMS, I'm doing really well. I'm easily (since I picked a high point range) staying within my points. I ate at the range WW says I should be the other day because of a lack of food options. I was really hungry by the time dinner rolled around, which is the start of a new day for me. But I didn't gorge the next day, like I used to after a day that ended up too low in points. That didn't happen very often, but often enough that I could compare the experiences. My journal is going well, too. And I'm not showing a gain on the scale from the PMS water retention, even though I can tell that I am retaining water.

Have a great day! Happy turtlin!! :cool:

:chef: Lin

Lin, those are good points. I can't say I have answers for you though. ;) I think it's just an individual body thing, honestly: some people are more sensitive to it than others. It's like anything that happens in the body. For what we know, ALL smokers should get lung cancer. Yet they don't. ALL women should be able to take HRT or BC pills, given what we know of the way the female body works. Yet as you know, all women can't take those pills. And all but the tiniest of women should be able to lose weight eating an average of 1,500 calories a day and exercising. But believe me, they don't! :)

For myself, it makes a lot of sense. I have a monster sweet tooth, yet I do not crave carbs as a whole. I enjoy pasta, yes, but I don't crave it--mostly I crave the sauces! Bread is nice but again not anything I'll make a fuss about. And I have never in my life been pushed over the edge by a baked potato! :lol: I agree that any diet that advocates cutting out food groups is bad news. SB, however, does not advocate that. They are not a low-carb plan. They tout themselves as a "correct carb plan". Meaning what we already know: high fiber, minimally processed, nutritionally valuable foods. The idea of "low sugar" gives me a certain gauge to use to judge my choices.

I'm not going to avoid baked potatoes. THAT part doesn't make any sense to me at all (not that this issue will come up but maybe...once a month?). And I'm not going to avoid fruits. I agree with you--our biology evolved around fresh foods from natural sources. It does seem a good point, though, that our problems with weight and weight control, as a nation, developed as the food supply became more and more processed. Other cultures are built around pastas, breads, and rice foods, true, but their foods are not as processed as ours. When I was living in London, most of the "fast" food available was from sandwich bars--Pret a Manger and that sort of place. The foods were freshly prepared (nightly), and consisted of things like turkey, salad greens, tomatoes, mustard, and whole grain wheat bread. It was unusual to find anything that wasn't very close to its original state.

I am going to watch my consumption of sugar, and check labels before I consider eating things. Check labels for one more thing, that is! :rolleyes: As I said my sweet tooth is awful, and I would really like to be free of it!

For the record, I'm also not a believer in the idea that one thing (sugar) is responsible for the entire problem. I think it's a variety of factors: less movement and exercise, processed foods in general, high fat consumption, and yes, too many calories. I do think, though, that for me sugar is a factor.

It sounds like you're very happy with your progress, and it sounds like it's going well! You sound reasonably settled and content right now, and I hope the mood holds. :)

The main thing for me is that eating sugar makes me want to eat more sugar. It's a vicious circle I fall into. Carbs do the same thing to me, but at a much lower level.

I had a couple of bad eating days there as TOM finally started; yesterday was better; today was better yet. Now I need to get back to the exercise.

Glad everyone sounds like they're doing so well.

Lin, how was jury duty?

Onward and downward,

Lauren

Lauren, I agree. I was telling my best friend last night: I can control my sweet tooth as long as I don't wake it up, but once the monster is roused, WATCH OUT! :lol: She agreed that SB sounds like me--it sounds like the way my body reacts to things. She says she craves fat but unfortunately I didn't know what to tell her about that!

Hope everyone else is doing well. I try to use my "off" time to clean and get the house settled, laundry caught up, etc--so that I don't have to worry about it when I'm studying. I have one week of vacation til I start classes again, so I best get busy!

Good Morning Turtles..I am doing great...2 1/2 lbs...!!! Can you believe it??? I can't !!! I am just so happy, It has been a long time since I have lost anything...

Good healthy conversations regarging sugar/carbs..I Agree with Lauren and Mousie...Once I let the lion out of the cage, there is no stopping my craving..The more I eat, the more I want..I don't want that any more, but this is where I am wishy washy. Do I want to give up sugar forever?? Like never have a green shake from Dennys or ever have cake and warm cookies right out of the oven??? No I can't see myself doing that so this is my plan..I am going to plan not eating any surgar until I lose this weight. Along the way I may jump off the wagon, knowing that if I do, I will have to jump back on. If it gets to a point where it is hard to jump back on, well i guess that means i wont beable to jump off and we will deal with that then...I am planning to drink Margritas when my dd comes home from the service on leave..It is something I have been planning with her for awhile..(my idea,) and I do have a quilt retreat coming up, but basicaly I am going to still keep doing it...I will just deal with one day at a time..

Tops was funny today...Me and 2 other people lost 2.5 lbs..so we all got to wear a tiara..isn't that funny/?? We got our backs rubbed, and i got a silk flower..What I will do it it??? guess i will put it in a little vase and see how many I can get...The ladies are all so nice, so huggie!! I showed off my quilts..they loved them..

well got to get ready for work..

Kathy
7

Woo Kathy, 2 1/2 pounds is great! The group sounds like it has fun together, which is nice. :)

I like the conversation we've got going here, too. For me, I can't see living the rest of my life without sugar--seriously, I'm not even 30 yet. I imagine future kids will have me turning to ice cream and/or chocolate at SOME point to come.

I have thought about how I'm going to handle the issue, though.

The last 2 days I have had dreadful cravings for sugar, but I did not give in. :smug: I have not played strictly by the SB rules (I have had mexican food twice, and it involved per force flour tortillas)(what can I say, I live in Southern CA. What else am I going to eat? ;) ) But, I have avoided all added sugars and all "treats". My two flour tortillas were the "white" foods I had, and even then the package listed 1 sugar per serving. So anyway.

I find it unrealistic to the extreme to imagine that I will never again have a sugary food. That being the case, I have tried to think of reasons that I would let myself have a treat and awaken the Monster Tooth. DH and I plan on going to dinner for our 2nd anniversary (Feb 24) and I think that's a good time. My birthday is March 18 and I can see that being reasonable. Basically the rule I am going by is "Only VERY special occasions". As I said, I am not tempted or challenged by pasta, bread, or potatoes. I am trying to make alternate choices (I already eat whole wheat pastas and breads) but not stressing too much about it. I am snacking more on fruits and vegetables, and eating more protein (for me, ANY increased amount is a good thing).

So what AM I trying to do? What I am eating sounds pretty much like an ideal WW diet, if you followed all their guidelines. I think that's the point: thinking about sugar and the sugar content of foods has gotten me playing more straight and narrow, and following a more "whole foods" approach. Just because it is low points does not mean it is good for me! I think I needed the shift in focus to sugar to purify my choices, as it were. I am glad I read the book.

Interesting discussion.

Kathy, WOO-HOO on that loss! Weigh to go. Loved the tiara/backrups/flower thing. :lol: What a hoot! Sounds like the TOPS/SB/Curves approach is working well for you. Just the boost you needed!

Erin, good for you on saying no to sugar right now. I think I'm at the one-week point, so I'm right there with you!

I too have been thinking about how to handle the sugar thing in the long term. Right now, I think I'll keep away from refined sugar until our 10th anniversary trip in April. After that, I'll see if I'm able to reincorporate it on a moderate basis, which is my ultimate goal.

I guess as I see it, I want to eat ALL foods in moderation. That has been my goal since the very beginning, and it still is. I think it always will be. I've found that I can have long stretches where I handle sugar in moderation just fine. Then I'll start to eat more and more of it -- and have to cut it out for a while. That may just be my pattern.

I love how we each find plans to work for us, tweak them when they stop working, try something different. To me, that's really the mark of someone who will be successful in the long term. Rather than get all hung up on the One Program That Will Be The Magic Key, we learn what does and doesn't work for us -- and we don't panic when what used to work no longer does. We just try something different.

I did a workout video today for the first time in a while. I'm just a tad out of shape! It certainly felt good, though. I've had more energy all day.

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/183.5/179 in February

Hi, Turtles,

Wow! This is a great discussion! I love seeing how each of us is willing to try different things to keep going, rather than giving up if things don't go the way we wish they would. That's what the turtle club philosophy is all about, I think.

First, congratulations, Kathy! That's a great loss. Here's a cyber-celebration: :hat:

I'd like to remind you, though, of a piece of advice I got a while ago. I can't tell you who said it because a lot of people have said it and I don't know who was the first. "Don't do anything to lose weight that you aren't willing to do for the rest of your life." That thought is why Lauren and Erin are discussing how to manage sugar, rather than deciding to cut it out completely. The problem is that if you choose to do anything "just until you lose the weight" you may discover that when you start doing whatever it is again, you will also start to regain the weight. That phenomenon is why we turtles focus long-term, on what we will do to lose AND to maintain our weight losses.

That phenomenon I mentioned was my experience when I was trying to follow super-restricted old diets and WW programs. Inevitably I'd go off because they said I'd have to eat that way forever. That's a long time when you are 20 years old and I couldn't see myself cutting out favorite foods for the rest of my life. I didn't want to conform to cultural norms that much and I wasn't that much overweight at the time.

Thanks for your thoughtful answer to my thoughts about SB, Erin. I like your idea about taking a more whole foods approach because I love whole grains, veggies, etc. I also, however, am with Lauren about eating all foods in moderation. The cook in me wants to play with all of the kitchen toys. ;) Those two things are not, however, mutually exclusive. It just takes a little bit of planning. (DUH!!)

Over the years I've learned a lot from the various things I've done in my efforts to lose weight that have helped me to learn what my body wants. Here is a little rundown. Maybe it can help someone else. One lesson is above, in my thoughts about Kathy's resolution. Also, from WW in the early '70s I learned that a super high protein diet is wrong for me because I can't stick with it long enough to lose the weight. I also didn't want to make it a permanent lifestyle. From WW Quick Start program I learned that an immediate drop in calories to a super low level made me susceptible to colds. Also, I hit plateaus much sooner when I followed that plan. From WW Fat & Fiber I learned that I lose really well and consistently if I eat that 25-30g of fiber that nutritionists recommend. From WW points plans I learned that I need mini meals to keep my blood sugar even throughout the day. From observing my general health I learned that I need to keep my fat intake at around 30% or my skin gets really dry and I lose a little more hair than is normal. Lastly, I learned from every diet I've ever been on that I cannot cut any foods completely from my diet. (Of course, that doesn't include liver, which was the worst part of that old plan from the '70s :lol: )

Those lessons haven't made me thin, yet. But they've certainly helped me to be healthier than many people who weigh what I do. They have also helped me to plan a reasonable strategy for getting where I want to go. The trick is to make that strategy a part of my daily life. Taking the time to plan my food to follow that strategy is my main food goal right now.

The other part of the equation is to be more consistent with exercise. I'm improving, but I'm not at the level where I want to be yet.

I'm done with jury duty. I didn't get picked to serve. So, now I can start job hunting more seriously. It was hard because I couldn't schedule interviews or know when I could start work. And I can get back to the rest of the stuff I have to do.

Things are going well as far as my journal, etc. I brought my own food to the courthouse and it worked out fine.

Have a great day. Happy turtlin'! :D

:chef: Lin

Lin, yay! No jury duty! :lol: Now to get on with your life, right? :)

I think you have a good point about not doing anything to lose the weight that you wouldn't do forever. That's part of why I couldn't see myself swearing off pasta and bread for now--because I WOULD, at some point, start eating it again. Iwant to make balanced choices--not being able to make balanced choices is what got me into this mess in the first place! :lol:

Lauren and Judy, I want to ask how you are feeling. Here's what's happening for me: I'm on day 5 of my whole-foods approach. I have had flour tortillas, but otherwise I've had whole foods and no sugar. Lots of fruit--fuji apples and navel oranges are nice right now. Yesterday and the day before I had blisteringly bad headaches in the afternoon. Today I don't. I've heard that, when you lower your carb consumption, this tends to happen. Did this also happen for you?

I'm starting school on tuesday and my books are going to be about $300. After the $800 last semester, I can accept that! :) Working on laundry right now, so I must get back to it. Bye Turtles!

Lin, woo-hoo on not having to do jury duty! Loved reading what you've learned from each program. What a great attitude.

Erin, I haven't had any bad headaches this time, though I've heard many people do get them when they've been eating a lot of sugar and then stop cold turkey. But in my case, I haven't really cut back on carbs. Just straight sugar. (I rarely eat refined carbs anyway, just in frozen dinners or occasional restaurant visits. All the carbs in our house are whole-grain.)

Have you also cut back on caffeine? (Were you eating a lot of chocolate?) That one really nails people, too.

Two straight days of exercising -- I'm on a roll! :)

--Lauren

Sure, I go away for a few weeks and you guys are in the middle of a great discussion! Today I feel like I have the flu, and i'm heading out the door to go to work. Poor me.

Anyway--for me, I try and cut the sugary sweet foods out--or I'll have a nibble. That helps me stay OP. For example, yesterday a little girl in my class brought me a Godiva sampler of two chocolates. I bit and ate 1/2 of one and threw the rest out. It was yummy, it didn't start an eating binge and I didn't want the extra calories of the other 1 1/2 pieces.

Overall I gained yet another pound over the holidays. I didn't think I did and it snuck in there at the very last minute. Darn!

My sister sent me some supplements from QVC and they are actually working to help me feel full with less food. So I am down to 226 again. I am going to break 200 this year. I want to and I need to.

I'll write again soon. I feel some bodies respond very well to slowing down consumption of sugars or fats and that's why this life search for something we can get to a healthy weight and be satisfied with the foods we're eating is so complicated. Will write more ASAP.
Love you all------and a Happy New Year!
Judy

Hi, Turtles,

Judy, it's so good to hear from you. We've been wondering how you've been. I'm sorry to hear that you gained a pound. But let's give it a little perspective. Statistics say that most people gain an average of 7 pounds. So, you are still way ahead of the game and one pound is about one week or so to make it go away again. That's not too bad. :)

Erin, I hadn't heard that about stopping refined foods giving people headaches. That's interesting. Boy, do I relate to the balanced choices idea. That is a biggie for me, too. I love veggies, but during PMS I have to really make an effort to get them in. PMS changes my habits drastically, if I let it.

Lauren, great to hear that you're getting back to your exercise schedule. I bet you feel a lot better. :)

I've been weighing myself every day so I can average my weights. What an interesting experience that is. I've been going up and down within the same 3 pounds since the beginning of the year. But what's interesting is that I am as bloated as it gets right now and today I weighed at the bottom of that 3-pound range. It will be interesting to see how my average turns out over the next few weeks, between TOM and the next PMS bloat.

I left off one program from my list. Even though I only followed it for a few weeks, I did learn a couple of things from the Carbo Addict's plan. First, I learned about averaging daily weights instead of taking weekly snapshots. It makes a ton more sense. The other thing I learned was about balancing foods at a meal. I do my best to use the balance of veggies, protein, and carbs of their "reward meals" at all of my meals except breakfast. Except for veggie omelettes or quiches I don't have veggies at breakfast every day. They just don't "go" with oatmeal. :lol:

Yesterday I wasn't able to get out for my walk. It was a beautiful day, too. I missed it. I'm planning to do it today. I still have a ton of stuff to catch up on after the holidays and jury duty, but the most pressing stuff got done yesterday.

Have a great day! Happy turtlin'! :cool:

:chef: Lin

Lauren, I don't eat chocolate (American chocolate is AWFUL!) and I don't drink caffeine. My downfall has always been cakes/pastries, and ice cream. The headaches have gone, so whatever the cause, I guess it's cured!

Judy, welcome back! I've been wondering where you've been hiding. :) Good technique with the chocolates. I agree, some bodies just respond in more adverse ways with sweets.

Lin, the average weight thing is a good idea. At least then you can see general trends, and not get discouraged by a random bounce up!

I have been eating about 40 points a day for the last 5 days, and I have been consistently DOWN with my weight. I'm not taking an official weight til saturday, but this is boggling my mind. Especially since I was struggling to lose at ~30 points, especially since it's PMS week! :eek: We shall see on Saturday, but I'm feeling positive and healthy right now.

Bye Turtles!

Woo-hoo, hello again, Judy! I hope you're feeling better. And one pound over the holidays is cause for CELEBRATION in my book! I'm in awe over your handling the Godivas. I couldn't do that right now, that's for sure.

Lin, interesting about averaging your weight over a week. That makes sense. But as for me, I like to see what my *lowest* weight was during the week, and just use that! :lol: (Yes, I'm kidding. Sort of.)

Erin, I'm not surprised that you'd lose weight at 40 points, given your amount of exercise and muscle. Not surprised at all, especially since you're off sugar. I really do think that all calories are not the same. (Even WW recommends you not consume more than 2 points of a sugary treat per day, or you won't lose weight as well.)

I used up all my points by 4:30 today, thanks to lunch at a Thai restaurant. (WOW, that stuff adds up. I estimated 15 points for lunch!) Eating a bunch of sugar-free peanut brittle didn't help. But it sure was amazingly good -- it's made with natural peanut butter. Anyway, I'm going to go slightly over my points tonight because I'm going to make myself an egg-white omelet. I'm realizing I'm just not getting enough protein.

Had an eye exam today; hadn't had one in about four years. I'm a little concerned, since the pressure in one of my eyes was on the high side, just barely "normal." The doctor wants to check it again in a year, just to make sure that it's not glaucoma coming on. (I don't know what number it has been in the past; if it stays at this level over time, he'll know it's just normal for me and nothing to be concerned about.) Otherwise, my eyes are in great shape, which is always good to hear (aside from being extremely nearsighted, of course).

It is SO COLD here. I walked to the eye exam, which was only a few blocks from my house. When I walked in the office door, everyone stared at me for a minute. Finally one woman said, "Did you WALK here?" Apparently I was bright red from the wind. :cool:

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/183.5/170s in February