what the EFF is this all about?!?!?!
 

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/o...ost-impossible

Please read that article and tell me, WTF?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
WHY DOES IT SEAM LIKE EVERYONE IS TRYING TO TELL ME I'M GOING TO STAY FAT????

It started with that god awful Ted Talk that told us our brains only give us a 10-20 lb threshold before it craps out on the diet and makes us gain it all back.

5%??? FIVE FREAKING PERCENT?!?!?!!?

Please, people of the message boards - if you've been successful with your weight loss please tell me how long you've been able to keep it off!!


Oh hi, most insanely frustrating line in the whole article: "That raises another troubling question. If diets don't result in weight loss, what does? At this point the grim answer seems to be that there is no known cure for obesity, except perhaps surgically shrinking the stomach.

This is extremely depressing. :mad:

side bar - i don't like the word "diet" and i get why they don't work - but are they trying to tell me that with even the magical "lifestyle change" approach, it's all effing futile?

It seems like this article may have been written by someone who is ignorant of exactly how weight loss works, first of all. But more so, is ignorant of how scientific studies are conducted and how to draw conclusions from them. I personally am in the field of biology and know how to critique and properly interpret studies and journals. Which means many many many things go into considering the legitimacy of a claim such as this. In short, it is ridiculous and based on no real facts that can be traced.

What are doing reading MSN articles anyway? I find they are mostly written for a wow-factor and do not adhere to prestigious journaling guidelines whatsoever. There isn't even an author/journalist listed as having written it. It's garbage. Drivel. Intentional cockamamie.

It is yet another sideline commentary that overcomplicates a rather simple (in principle) process on purpose. For money. And to get people to read it. So that they can be exposed to the advertising on the site. Websites need traffic to get money from advertising companies. I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but in the case of crappy "news articles" all over the web, this is exactly what it is. Nothing more.

Use your own brain! Absolutely no one (perhaps baring a legit condition such as Prader-Willi syndrome) is condemned to be obese for their entire lives. Of course there are so many biological and chemical functions going on that may contribute to our TENDENCIES and BEHAVIOUR that lead to weight gain.

But mind ultimately controls matter.

Eat less and you will lose weight. Eat the amount needed to maintain weight and you will maintain weight. Eat more, gain more. All diets, strategies, and mental tools differ in their guidelines but they all amount to exactly this.

That is the BOTTOM LINE.

You CAN lose weight. You CAN keep it off for as long you have the emotional stamina to eat the appropriate energy needs. There is NO driving force to will gravitate you against your will to going back to obesity unless you are someone truly confused about your lifestyle. And I don't think you are ;)

The Stats are really bad. However I am not sure about the 5% figure I was under the impression it was closer to 10 but regardless it doesn't matter because YOU don't have to be a statistic.

I have always believed that for most people losing weight is easy the hard part is keeping it off. One must find a new WOE that limits caloric intake or you will eventually regain because it is very easy to fall back into the pattern that got us fat in the first place.

This is a great opportunity for me to plug intermittent fasting. While not for everyone it has been a game changer for me.

Aww, hugs to you Kaybee! I'm still struggling, but I think the key is maintaining the lifestyle after the weightloss. Some say it's harder than the original weight loss!


Earthling--re MSN: that was my first reaction too about accuracy or lack thereof, but the article is actually from CBC.ca which is a national news channel in Canada and not (for the most part :p on a good day) an entertainment site. Granted, the two professors quoted aren't biologists--they're professors of psychology and health law respectively, and admittedly not the source of the studies (except meta-analysis in the case of one). But running an eating lab for 20 years? I think you'd have at least a couple of salient observations. (I don't mean that sarcastically).

Legitimate hard copy magazines? I'm not sure if that means the same thing in the States. Do you mean peer reviewed journals or magazines? Please DON'T EVER take any article you have read in a magazine about dieting or health seriously. Ever.

I stand by my comments on it. I know they are harsh. I am not talking about the phd's or the study they did which are flawed in their own way and (I'll use the phrase "appear to" because I can't get my hands on any published paper by them) give statistics that cannot be extrapolated to this extent, but the warped nature of the the articles' conclusions. They are ridiculous and seem intended to wow for shear sake of it. Because the average jo will not read about these statistics (or the frailty of their nature!) if it isn't packaged in movie drama fashion to lure them in.

My bad for not seeing the CBC.ca logo. But even national news channels (at least in the US) are MAJOR participants in this phenomena. They love reporting the latest outliers in an otherwise humdrum world of literature as "breaking news" or "evidence" when it rarely is.

My major issue is that there is NO author or journalist listed. When this happens, no real journaling took place. None. Sorry. Not even a date as to when it was written.

"Obesity research confirms long-term weight loss almost impossible" is a horribly misleading title. Not only was nothing confirmed by the study that it misleadingly described, but the study itself confirmed nothing. NOTHING. Just added a few statistics to the pot which by themselves confirm nothing. They have to be taken A. into context and B. in conjunction with other studies. That is the best way to find the true value (or best estimate) or the thing you are seeking. Sampling distribution. Sampling distribution. Sampling distribution.

Not being able to see exactly which studies the author is referring to at specific points in the article is also problematic for me to assess the advantages and disadvantages of the studies and it reenforces the specious tone of the article. But one thing is this.
Folks who are typically in these studies are usually are in them for a reason. Usually because they have particular difficulty in losing weight. They're sampling pool is not representative of the population. And also, I hardly call 2 years long term when the title of the article is so utterly dire about hopeless eternity.

Also, another thing stood out. For most of the article, the author does not reference the studies AT ALL. Just the opinions of some guy named Cauffield who is particularly pessimistic (i am too and I agree with many of his opinions) but has nothing to do with the studies. At all. Read it again. Furthermore, his comments are cut and paste. The "author" is only giving you a few sentences of Cauffield's that superficially appear to confirm this idea. I have no sense at all that Cauffield was even referencing this particular study even. And they were probably taken out of context by the author.

Your mind controls your matter. Specifically your consciousness controls your matter. Thousands and millions of years of evolution is telling you that your body craves food. But it is your mind that puts the food in you. Not your body. And while yes, we are in a way evolved with the result of wanting food, fortunately, our brains and minds have evolved too.

Well, I can never be sure of breaking statistics but after 10 years of maintenance (and two pregnancies), the key for me is this:

Every day, every meal, I am conscious of what will happen if I don't control my eating. I have good and bad days, more good than bad, but not a day has gone by this decade that I dont have to make a conscious choice about what I eat. Yes, it isn't fun, but I guess its a price I pay instead of staying overweight.

I am dying to jump in here but only have a couple of minutes... Here is my short version.

Your state of mind counts - limit your reading to material that will encourage you, not discourage you.

Maintaining is harder than losing but there are people who have kept the weight off. See the The National Weight Control Registry http://www.nwcr.ws/

10 yrs ago, I lost 25 lbs. I was only a little overweight at that time and I lost that weight through dieting. After that, I kept off that weight for 3 full years and I gained again only because I got pregnant. But I remember maintaining some sort of an ongoing diet, restricting the portion sizes and staying away from fatty foods. This time around, I have lost 35 lbs, and I have yet to see how effectively I am maintaining this new weight, and I hope to do well, as I know how much of a work it was to lose it.

A depressing article indeed. I'm with Earthling, who's taking credit for this opinion article? Nobody has attached their name to it, therefor it is anonymous opinion. And there are certain things said that are.... DUMB! Like, the only known cure for obesity is surgically shrinking the stomach - uhm what a dumb conclusion. No wonder nobody wanted to sign their name, it's a sensationalist claim.

I firmly believe that diets don't work. "Lifestyle change" is the newfangled word for diet now. I don't identify with any of those terms "WOE," "maintenance mode" "diet," "lifestyle change" etc., none of it applies to me. I'm rewiring my brain, neutralizing my relationship with food, finding ways to address my emotional needs without food, and making sure that every eating experience is enjoyable and satisfying. That's not a lifestyle change, it's a personality change lol. I literally have to become someone else, I have to become a person that does not depend on food to cope with emotional distress, a person who does not rely on external diets to dictate when/what/how much I will eat.

C'mon over and visit the Maintainer's forum, kaybee! There's a whole klatch of folks here with amazing losses and still doing it every day, with plenty of different strategies. You're going to spend the vast majority of your life after weight loss as a Maintainer, so anything you can pick up ahead of time is just going to put you that much further ahead!

Many years ago I lost 25 lbs and maintained that weight for 10 years. I ate sweets, pizza, hamburgers, pasta.....just not every day. It was a once in a while thing and I weighed daily to make sure the weight was not creeping back on. I also spent hours dancing in the dance clubs several nights a week. My lifestyle changed drastically after I got married and was cooking for a family. Now I am finding it close to impossible to get back to my previous lifestyle and lose the weight. So for me, maintaining was much easier for those 10 years than losing is now. Give me a way to get this weight off, and I will maintain that loss the rest of my life.

We all know people who have lost the weight and kept it off. It takes a great deal of persistence and effort, but it's not impossible. The majority bounce back, but it's not impossible to maintain.

We don't need this kind of negativity in our lives. LOL

I think that the article is right that most people lose weight regain it, but its like they are wrong about the reason why?

I would bet that the majority of people who lose weight do so with restrictive diets that they can not stick with on top of that there is just always temptation. Society is so based off food. Going out with friends, holidays, everyday being drowned out in commercials for food & restaurants. Plus keeping fit is an everyday lifelong activity. Everyone can have a lazy day sometimes but you can't ever really slack off with watching what you eat or being active if you wanna keep it. I can easily see why the majority of people regain.

But that doesn't mean everyone will. I think if you are honest about what you want and are making real changes in your habits and life then you are building a good foundation to stick with it for life.

I did a search for "weight loss" and "traci mann", since that was one of the names mentioned in the article.

Can't get the whole study, but here's the abstract. Done a number of years ago, it looks like. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17469900

Ya know, I never have a problem with these articles. I kinda like them because it confirms how difficult it is to lose weight and to maintain the weight. After all the many years of maintenance, I have heard my share of "You don't need to watch what you eat anymore, memememe76!!!!"

Even in weight-related forums, so much blame for weight regain is directed at the person, usually in the form of that person stupidly choosing some quick-fix diet regime that had no chance whatsoever at being long-term.

Whoa, what is with that article? I don't see the point in publishing things like this...it's hard enough to work up the motivation to lose weight, and reading something like that won't help someone get started. The statistics, accurate or not, are scary and depressing, but I think it's pointless to think of it when you're trying to lose weight. Kaybee, I would put it out of your mind and focus on you and your long-term plan.

I have to agree. I feel confident that once I get to maintenance, I have a good plan in place thanks to intermittent fasting and 5:2.

The statistics are true, one trawl through an old page of this message board makes that quite clear. But you're not a statistic. You're an individual with agency and choice in this, and whether or not *you* succeed is entirely dependent on your choices and body's needs, not anyone or anything else. I won't lie, keeping large amounts of weight off is hard work, every day, for the rest of your life. It isn't impossible, but don't downplay the effort either ;)

Yup, that's it. As long as you understand this you'll be fine, but it is when someone thinks they can ever lose vigilance or go back to their old way of eating without the predictable result that we get into trouble :o

Thanks guys, you've all been a great help. I feel like i'm somewhat back on planet earth today. I've been having a rough couple of days and this morning I had a literal melt down at work lol (there was nothing that people did that did not piss me off today) but I think I kind of needed to let it out. That stupid article mixed with a renewed focus on the current direction of my life (aka a quarter life crisis-induced panic attack) sorta pushed me over the edge. The good news is, I renewed my gym membership with my trainer for another 4 months after having been off for almost four weeks so at least that's back on track.

I also really appreciate your advice about how to discern fact from fiction and to be diligent about what one reads on the internet/takes to be truth without really looking at the sources. I should have thought of this, because funny enough I'm a huge skeptic and a big fan of logical thinking/reason inspired by the four horsemen of new atheism - i digress, but what i mean to say is that i'm usually very aware of what my sources are. As someone who typically overreacts, worries, and stresses out about EVERYTHING i've had to literally teach myself to step outside of my head and critically evaluate whatever bothers me. Clearly, i did not do that last night hence my crazy post lol.

so ya, thanks for the support, much needed!:)

Here is a nice blog post from a physician in Canada that discusses this article. I found it really helpful:

http://www.weightymatters.ca/2014/06...mpossible.html

http://www.nwcr.ws/default.htm

Thought people might like to look at this site if they havent seen it before and the research that they are doing. A lot of their articles link to pubmed and you can only get the abstracts for many of them unless you have personal access

They analysis the information on those who join the register to determine both what makes for successful dieting and long term maintenance. Their estimates are higher, though part of the qualification to join is maintaining for 12 months.

I am almost there:D

This.

In 2011 I lost 50 pounds and have kept it off or two and a half years. I lost similar amounts of weight several other times in my life and always gained it back. This time, in my mid-fifties, I've finally figured it out. I eat well (2,000 cals per day) and exercise regularly. That's all. As stated above, there is absolutely no driving force pushing me to regain the weight except my own love of food and love of overeating. I still overeat massively on occasion, but nip it in the bud and get back to moderate eating the next meal.

There's no reason you can't keep weight off if you understand and manage your relationship with food.

F.

I lost 100 lbs this past year more or less effortlessly after a transition period to ween me from starches, sugar, grains, most fruit.

My wife adopted it in January and has lost 38 lbs, she was around 196 to start. So 2 for 2 in one household.

The theory is there is a set point if you just cut calories but eat less of the same foods or try to.

But if you change the macro content, you change your underlying biochemistry and then anything is possible.

I didn't calorie count and never will. On high fat my appetite regulates itself. Just like for millions of years of lean humans who didn't even know what a calorie was.

I firmly believe, for many, that permanent weight loss does not require lifelong effort as long as you eat whole foods and get good macro nutrient percentages.

For me matter absolutely controlled mind. When you consume carbs, insulin has to rush in to get the glucose the carbs become out of your bloodstream. Glycogen stores or only so big. After that insulin does its job and stores excess calories as fat. Your blood sugar drops you start the whole cycle over.

Fat produces no insulin response and helps your body absorb nutrients. Insulin was too powerful for me. Mind over matter, eat less move more never worked for me. When I worked with my body, weight loss, for me, was effortless.

So glad that a couple of people put in the link to the weight control registry. There are several members of this forum who are members [VERY proud members - as they should be].

One of the key findings from this registry - which tracks how people lost the weight, and more important, what they do to MAINTAIN it - is that after we've lost weight, we're somewhat different than people who've never had to lose it. People who've successfully maintained over time tend to eat slightly fewer calories and exercise about 30 minutes more a day than never-had-to-lose weight people.

Most people - the 95% in the article - don't view weight MAINTENANCE as part of their 'diet.' They'll lose the weight and for some reason decide that they can go back to their old habits. As my surgeon said to me - why mess with success? why go back to what made you gain weight in the first place?

Yes, I've had surgery. But I'm here to tell you that it's really NO DIFFERENT than losing weight the old fashioned way. It's simply a tool that re-set both my eating habits and my metabolism. It requires constant vigilance. .

constant vigilance. just like everyone else.

I saw the same article come across my facebook newsfeed from cbc, I decided not to read it lol. I figure it's a very rare person that hasn't insisted they are on a diet or going to lose weight (especially in January), but the majority are not seriously committed to the idea. With 80% of the population taking on these 'diets' it's no wonder the majority of dieting 'fails'. I think those of us who have seriously sat down and thought about wanting to lose lbs and how to do it are in a different category than everyone who decides to diet for a few weeks.

In my own small circle I know two women who have lost weight without surgery. My mother was around 160 lbs at 4 foot 9 and around 8 years ago she changed some eating habits and started walking regularly and is now around 120 lbs. She's maintained this weight more or less for at least 8 years.

My aunt was over 300 lbs for most of her adult life. In the past 3 years she has lost over 150lbs. She hasn't been maintaining as long but she's lost an amazing amount of weight by using weight watchers and picking up some exercising habits. I honestly doubt she'll ever regain.

I was just a bit over 200 lbs 6 or so years ago. 2 pregnancies later I've maintained 160 with very effort now that my lifestyle (especially around food) has changed. Now to just lose the next 30!

As previous posters have said we're not statistics, and I really believe those statistics are skewed anyways.

And Earthling you get +1 points for using the word 'cockamamie'.

I'm with Earthling. Most journalists know nothing about how to dissect scientific research, nor do they care. (I have published papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals. I have also been a sensationalist journalist. I've seen both sides.)

Take EVERYTHING you read in any news medium (be it newspapers, magazines, websites, or even scientific journals) with a grain of salt.

As my old research methods prof used to say, it's just another example of "How to lie with statistics."

Perhaps this publication is funded by the weight loss surgery industry? I know the numbers for long term weight-loss are not exactly inspiring, but similar studies basically told me my kids would be sick more, obese, and stupid if I didn't breastfeed for twelve years (note sarcasm). Studies are all fine and good when they serve some positive end, in my opinion, but stuff like this I tend to willfully ignore. YOU and I are not numbers, m'dear, we are individuals with the POWER to shape today and tomorrow, and every day thereafter. I agree with time2lose. :D

I loved what the canadian article brought forward since it applies to all we do in life.

If your weight loss plan makes you miserable, it wont work long term and will not help you maintain. Attitude, attitude, having a positive outlook always help, to see the positive instead of the negative.

Another point is the fact that people revert to their old habits, it is not the fact that they were on a diet that they regain but because they stop doing what was working for them.

I have regained some weight, one because menopause hit me like a freight train and my daily calorie need drop about 200 calories and second told myself it is only 5 pounds but it was never the same 5 pounds. If I would have taken into account menopause and instead of saying only 5 pounds and took action at just 1 pound I would still be 125. A little less yogourt or an apple and a half would have solved my problem, but proscratination got hold of me.

So NO I do not agree that it is impossible to maintain weight loss.

Maintenance really is the hard part... and unless you stay conscious of it, the weight can creep back up on you. In the program I'm in, the doctors are performing a study right now mapping our genes because they have found evidence of a "fat" gene, that some people are predisposed to being obese, and as a result will have to work harder for the rest of their lives in order to keep the weight off.

The key for me right now (keep in mind I'm still in the weight LOSS phase, but I'm learning every week new tools to help once I'm on the maintenance phase) is learning everything I can about the nutrition and behavioral aspects of food and weight loss. Armed with the right tools, I hope to make the right choices in the future. We'll see how I do with maintaining, but it really is about a lifestyle change... and the key (according to the clinic I'm in) is to take small steps towards your goal rather than try to jump in feet first. Often times that's what people do, they get all gung ho about weight loss, say THIS IS IT and decide to do all the things.

They end up cutting out everything they once loved
working their butts off
pushing themselves past their limit..... and as a result, end up giving up and relapsing because it isn't something they can maintain long term.

The better way to do it is to slowly make better choices. Don't deny yourself everything you love all the time, or you may end up relapsing and binging.. find healthier ways to enjoy the foods you love.
Don't start off by running a mile... if you're just starting out, try going around the block.. once that's easy, find a new goal, even if it's just going around the block twice.

Bit by bit you're building steps towards that new lifestyle you want, and because it was your choice, and you enjoyed yourself along the way, you didn't push yourself to the point of constant pain and agony.. you got there, and changed along the way.

It takes time to break habits, and time to form new ones.. if you try to change too many things at once, odds are, at some point, you will stop trying so hard to keep doing all the things, and end up right back where you started.

Baby steps :D

Hi just a side note to say that you have every right to be proud of you weight loss and the fact that you chose to have surgery does not in any way diminish your success.

I dont know why some people have negative attitude toward people that had the surgery the means you took are not easy. I raise my hat to you, bravo.

Pattience, true enough that they aren't drawing their numbers from the population at large. Even so, I think where they are drawing their numbers from matter.

Granted everyone has already called into question the validity of the science behind this. I'm going to continue to poke holes in it anyways. I think when it comes to studying something like weight loss the WHY is in a lot of ways more important than the HOW.

So they gave people intense exercise and nutrition counselling....and then assumed that it was a lack of this information that was keeping people from losing weight permanently. Studies like this are flawed from the get go.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that most of us know the information about HOW to lose weight is great... but it's the WHY that makes it happen and makes it a lifelong change.

Until they come up with a study of groups of people who lose weight for different reasons and the effectiveness, I still think it's not representing a correct proportion of 'serious' dieters (by which I mean people who are looking for a real lifestyle change).

HEY FAWKS, I KNOW YOU IRL!!! lol. I tried to PM you but I think you're too new and I'm not allowed. Glad to see you joined the board!!!!

I think you hit the nail on the head with the word "diet." By definition the word is temporary. People who diet, regain or don't lose more than you can in a temporary time and then regain. I had "dieted" millions of times but was never able to maintain weight loss until I changed my life.

A complete 180 change - food and exercise, but also the mental health side of it. I dealt with the demons that were keeping me overweight. I started more with the intent of self discovery and a focus on taking care of myself. Ironically, not focusing on the weight but on the behaviors behind my choices was the "magic pill" for me. It's been a journey of fine tuning and reminding myself to continue these things, and yes I gain 5 to 10lbs here and there but I've maintained my loss for 3 years now. (Almost 70lbs and gone from a size 24 to a size 10).

I think the set point concept is all mental. Your "set point" is the lowest weight that allows you to lose without having to REALLY change. It's the amount you'll lose with a diet. I think the same thing about plateau. When you reach one, it's a signal that you have a mental block and need to evaluate why you won't let yourself go past that weight. I was convinced my set point was 200 and then 185 and then 163. Now, I have seen the patterns and know that those were mental roadblock weights.

Do most people do the real work to lose weight? (By real work I mean are they willing to significantly modify their life both nutritionally, physically and psychologically.) No. That's why you see those negative statistical numbers.

Plus, I think that there is a difference between someone making a small lifestyle tweak to lose 20lbs and be at a goal weight and someone who loses (or has to lose) 100lbs or more. I think those are two different categories of weight loss and the researchers should look into them separately.

One final piece of advice that I have for someone starting out, though that is VERY ENCOURAGING is this: There isn't a magical switch when you get to goal weight that makes you suddenly feel great. You get to experience positive affects of weight loss from almost the first week. You eat better and move a little and it FEELS GOOD and your MOOD is GOOD and that makes you FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOURSELF from WEEK 1. Lose 10lbs and your clothes feel better. Lose 20 and your joints feel better, your face changes, people notice and YOUR CONFIDENCE IN YOUR ABILITY TO LOSE WEIGHT SKYROCKETS. And so on. If you look at the calendar and think, "It's going to take me 6 months, 1 year to lose this but I want to feel better now!" The good news is that you will!!

I like to think of the staircase quote - "You don't have to see the top of the staircase, just take the first step and go up." It's about self discovery and self care and dealing with each new emotion and challenge that you face as you climb those stairs. But thinking about them all now will only overwhelm you. Just focus on the first step and then enjoy how quickly you will start to feel better.

Sustained weight loss isn't easy, but not in the ways you think. Yes, the gym can be hard and so can refusing foods but that's just the beginning. Do the "real work" and I PROMISE you will lose weight and be happier and it won't take getting to your goal weight to enjoy the rewards of that.