Originally Posted by berryblondeboys:
OK.... I never said he was a freak of nature... just that I don't understand it because it's so unlike me -

I didn't mean to imply that. But some people find it frustrating to be around intuitive eaters. freelance said "It's like we're different species...Anyone else have a spouse with a maddeningly healthy relationship with food? and yoyoma said "it's a little aggravating when she leaves half a brownie..." I totally understand the frustration, I can't tell you how many times I was angry and resentful of my husband because he ate so freaking normally all the freaking time. I'm like the black sheep in my family, everyone is so normal about food. They don't restrict anything but they don't gorge on anything either! Do you know how many times I've cooked my husband's favorite dinner for him only for him to turn around and not eat any of it because he's not hungry? You can't imagine how many fights we got into because I was pressuring him to eat breakfast, or scolding him for snacking between meals. I always knew better because I was the expert on nutrition. It was a real hanker in our marriage for sure.

Now I just try to understand. If he needs to eat 30minutes before dinner is ready then I have to accept that and not try to interfere and dictate to him when he can or should eat. It's also helped me to foster a better relationship with my son, who as a child is obviously an intuitive eater and is just as happy munching on broccoli as he is licking an ice cream cone - he doesn't know that broccoli is "good" and that ice cream is "bad" and I don't intend on ever telling him ;)

Originally Posted by berryblondeboys:
Got it from wikipedia's entry on Intuitive eating.



And you assume that your body really knows what it needs and doesn't? I don't believe that. The body is designed to survive hardships. So, it also is designed to prepare for such hardships. If anything, my body is doing a BETTER job at trying to survive because it doesn't say it's "too full" too quickly. So, if there was a famine, I would be more likely to survive because I have more fat stores and my body is really, really good at storing fat.

It absolutely DOES NOT KNOW that we live in times of plenty and that there is about zero chance there will be lean times/famine. There has been millions of years of evolution to tell my genes/DNA otherwise.

Ah, I posted before reading the rest of the thread. Yes, this is true.

Originally Posted by GlamourGirl827:
Please, do not fool yourself into thinking IE is primal or natural.

I never said IE is primal. It is natural though lol. Hunger is primal, that is what I said. Hunger is something you're born with, all animals are born with the drive to eat.

Originally Posted by berryblondeboys:
This is totally a tangent, but when my husband was born in Croatia, most women still breastfed there (unlike in the US) and the "wisdom" at the time was to feed the baby every 3 hours and only on one side and if they got hungry between nursings, to give them water in a bottle. SERIOUSLY. So... that is what my MIL did.

She was AGHAST when I did as you described -feeding on demand (and I too was a co-sleeping, baby wearing, breast feeding, don't cry it out mom). And both my babies nursed ALL THE TIME too. Water in a bottle? How could that ever make sense? "Medical advice"... huh

A mommy after my own heart. My mom smoked when she was pregnant with me. It was different times then. When you know better you do better. That was just the common thinking back then, I don't fault my mom for doing as she did, she too was taken aback by how much and how long I breastfed. You should have seen her expression when I told her we would do baby-led-weaning on food lol.

Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny:
That's a very interesting point but my take on this is as a breastfeeding mommy who nursed my son for 1.5yrs. I'm one of those hippie dippie breastfeeding, cosleeping, babywearing, attachment parenting mommies. From the get-go I was fighting with doctors - pediatricians and my own gyno who discouraged me from breastfeeding. They would tell me how much easier it is to feed formula, how much less I would have to feed, how my kid would sleep through the night if I formula fed. It all went very against my insticts and I'll be honest and tell you that it was driven by my eating disorder. I had read that kids who are formula fed have a greater risk of obesity and eating disorders later in life and since I was formula fed and I was obese and had an ED I wanted to do whatever I could to offset my child's chances of that. I'm not saying that I have ED and am obese because my mom formula fed me but hey, you know if there's a possible link then why not try to avoid that? (my brother was breastfed btw, totally intuitive eater, thin and confident)

A baby who is breastfed eats and behaves much differently than a baby who is formula fed. Sure, it would have been nice to do a feeding every 3-4hrs. But my son ate around the clock, sometimes feeding up to 4 times an hour. All night long even, I think the longest we went without feeding in the first 3 months was maybe 2hrs, day or night. It calmed down a bit after that but I continued to feed "on demand" until he weaned himself.

How could your doctor possibly know how much you needed to eat? Some people need to eat more, some people need to eat less. I can't speculate on what he meant but eating is not a prescription - your mom did the right thing and gave you more. if she hadn't that would've been like putting you on a diet. How many moms ignore their baby's cry and give them what the doctor tells them to? I have a serious distrust of doctors because of how much they encouraged formula and discouraged me from breast feeding. One even told me that my milk isn't good enough nutrition. Very bizarre archaic stuff.

Anyway, gosh I'm rambling, one of the IE books I read has referred to the initial stages of IE as demand-feeding, feeding ourselves on demand the same way we feed babies on demand. There are corrolations made between babies and how they get their needs met by crying out for food and learning to trust and that it's a similar process for us to relearn how to meet our own needs. I kind of buy into it after seeing some of my friends who formula feed - the baby cries and they say "I'm not going to feed her again until it's time for the next prescribed feeding" - what anguish it must be for a baby who's hungry now and doesn't understand that it's it's only 3:15pm.

After watching you many times on 3FC read a post and then jump to incorrect conclusions on what was being said to you, including name calling and implied insults, I flat out do not believe this. I think this is what you heard, but not what was communicated. I know you've mentioned your child is relatively young (so we aren't talking dated medicine) And I know there is no way all those providers were "discouraging" breastfeeding and you had to fight with all of them. You seem to perceive challenges where there are none, from what I've seen. And its sad that you likely lost out on educated professionals and their guidance because you viewed them as adversaries rather than support. I'm not saying you are lying, I'm sure in your head you saw them as yet another group of people you have do defend your choices against, but I'm telling you, breastfeeding is widely supported and encouraged by the medical community, and namely the American academy of pediatrics. Many studies have been published showing the benefits of breastfeeding. I promise you, you might think you were being discouraged, but you weren't.

Originally Posted by GlamourGirl827:
After watching you many times on 3FC read a post and then jump to incorrect conclusions on what was being said to you, including name calling and implied insults, I flat out do not believe this. I think this is what you heard, but not what was communicated. I know you've mentioned your child is relatively young (so we aren't talking dated medicine) And I know there is no way all those providers were "discouraging" breastfeeding and you had to fight with all of them. You seem to perceive challenges where there are none, from what I've seen. And its sad that you likely lost out on educated professionals and their guidance because you viewed them as adversaries rather than support. I'm not saying you are lying, I'm sure in your head you saw them as yet another group of people you have do defend your choices against, but I'm telling you, breastfeeding is widely supported and encouraged by the medical community, and namely the American academy of pediatrics. Many studies have been published showing the benefits of breastfeeding. I promise you, you might think you were being discouraged, but you weren't.

No... it could happen. My son (9 years ago) had to be admitted to the hospital for jaundice. First, they wanted me to leave my 2 day old infant at the hospital ALONE and just bring in pumped milk or let them bottle feed him formula. HELLO??? How much milk do they think I would get? Also, the doctor said that if I wasn't an experienced mother, she would have insisted that I bottle feed him while he was there. And I did have to fight them to let me nurse him as often as he wanted and to guarantee that my milk was coming in.

Oh, and when we were in the hospital where he was born, they worried about him losing too much weight before checking out that they wanted me to feed him a bottle before releasing him.

AND... when he was 6 weeks old, a different doctor wanted me to wean him before having gall bladder surgery because I wouldn't be able to breastfeed for 24 hours or so...

So, yes... it is still out there - if they don't gain fast enough. If they seem fussy, etc. STILL advice is too readily given to stop breastfeeding by a LOT of professionals.

freelancemomma - a year ago, I probably would have felt the same way as you! Now, I find myself unable to binge in the same way I used to without feeling overly full and sick. I don't enjoy it like I used to. Yes, I think I could still easily eat very high-calorie meals on a daily basis (mostly drinking those calories!) and enjoy it, but no where near how I used to and I think my desire for that just keeps going down and down and down.

Hm. Maybe I'm actually developing a healthy relationship with food. :dancer: I'm sure it has plenty to do with my stomach shrinking. My bf has been the same lately. We used to binge together, on occasion, and now we have even planned for a "binge" after a very good week and then were hardly able to eat any of it!

Unfortunately, I can go whole hog any time I want!

Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny:
That's a very interesting point but my take on this is as a breastfeeding mommy who nursed my son for 1.5yrs. I'm one of those hippie dippie breastfeeding, cosleeping, babywearing, attachment parenting mommies. From the get-go I was fighting with doctors - pediatricians and my own gyno who discouraged me from breastfeeding. They would tell me how much easier it is to feed formula, how much less I would have to feed, how my kid would sleep through the night if I formula fed. It all went very against my insticts and I'll be honest and tell you that it was driven by my eating disorder. I had read that kids who are formula fed have a greater risk of obesity and eating disorders later in life and since I was formula fed and I was obese and had an ED I wanted to do whatever I could to offset my child's chances of that. I'm not saying that I have ED and am obese because my mom formula fed me but hey, you know if there's a possible link then why not try to avoid that? (my brother was breastfed btw, totally intuitive eater, thin and confident)

A baby who is breastfed eats and behaves much differently than a baby who is formula fed. Sure, it would have been nice to do a feeding every 3-4hrs. But my son ate around the clock, sometimes feeding up to 4 times an hour. All night long even, I think the longest we went without feeding in the first 3 months was maybe 2hrs, day or night. It calmed down a bit after that but I continued to feed "on demand" until he weaned himself.

How could your doctor possibly know how much you needed to eat? Some people need to eat more, some people need to eat less. I can't speculate on what he meant but eating is not a prescription - your mom did the right thing and gave you more. if she hadn't that would've been like putting you on a diet. How many moms ignore their baby's cry and give them what the doctor tells them to? I have a serious distrust of doctors because of how much they encouraged formula and discouraged me from breast feeding. One even told me that my milk isn't good enough nutrition. Very bizarre archaic stuff.

Anyway, gosh I'm rambling, one of the IE books I read has referred to the initial stages of IE as demand-feeding, feeding ourselves on demand the same way we feed babies on demand. There are corrolations made between babies and how they get their needs met by crying out for food and learning to trust and that it's a similar process for us to relearn how to meet our own needs. I kind of buy into it after seeing some of my friends who formula feed - the baby cries and they say "I'm not going to feed her again until it's time for the next prescribed feeding" - what anguish it must be for a baby who's hungry now and doesn't understand that it's it's only 3:15pm.

I agree with all this, I have noticed this as well. I am also a hippy dippy mama who breastfed "on demand.". :D And yes in the beginning that was like every hour. I thought for sure I was doing something wrong because at the hospital they told me every 3 hours to feed her. Im glad I listened to my instincts on that one instead of saying "she can't possibly be hungry, it hasn't been 3 hours yet."

Originally Posted by GlamourGirl827:
After watching you many times on 3FC read a post and then jump to incorrect conclusions on what was being said to you, including name calling and implied insults, I flat out do not believe this. I think this is what you heard, but not what was communicated. I know you've mentioned your child is relatively young (so we aren't talking dated medicine) And I know there is no way all those providers were "discouraging" breastfeeding and you had to fight with all of them. You seem to perceive challenges where there are none, from what I've seen. And its sad that you likely lost out on educated professionals and their guidance because you viewed them as adversaries rather than support. I'm not saying you are lying, I'm sure in your head you saw them as yet another group of people you have do defend your choices against, but I'm telling you, breastfeeding is widely supported and encouraged by the medical community, and namely the American academy of pediatrics. Many studies have been published showing the benefits of breastfeeding. I promise you, you might think you were being discouraged, but you weren't.

I was discouraged from breastfeeding also. (my youngest is 2) I had to switch peds because of it. My babies are usually slow gainers in the beginning but they more than make up for it later. I was always being pushed to take formula. And I am not confrontational by nature, so I just tried to find a more supportive pediatrician. ..

So yeah its weird how the medical community gives lip service to breastfeeding yet many dr's do discourage it. I don't understand why. I was breastfed until I was about 11 months old. My dh was formula fed. AND they put rice cereal in his bottle from birth because he was such a BIG baby ( 9 lbs) and was hungry all the time. Heh I don't want to get into a debate, but my dh is NOT in touch with his hunger and fullness signals at all. He eats because its time to eat or to regulate his blood sugar. He definitely has weight issues, the more so as he gets older but he eats mostly processed food. Anyway. Fascinating discussion. :)

Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny:
This is very discouraging to hear, because once again IE is completely being misinterpreted. IE is NOT about eating whatever you want whenever you want it in whatever amounts you want, I don't know why this myth is so perpetual. IE is a methodical process of rebuilding your relationship with food, it's a lot of hard work, the hardest work I've ever had to do. It has taken me so far out of my comfort zone, and forced me to think about things that I've never had to address before. It's so painful to hear people dumb it down to the "eat whatever you feel like" diet. It just makes it sounds like we are stupid dumb people who are too lazy to lose weight. It's ok to not understand what IE is, but to blame a 100lb gain on IE is ... well I don't even know what to say about that.

Why do you keep assuming we just don't understand IE, instead of simply disagreeing with the principles and finding them ineffective? Believe it or not more than one fat chick has read Tribole's book and others like it.

And add me to the group that has no good off button, and when I eat to satisfaction and comfortably full I'm usually 1500 or more calories over my maintenance range. And of foods that make me sick and fat. Bummer, that.

To me, building a healthy relationship with food is just simply 'eating when hungry, stopping when full' and eating in moderation (whether we restrict to certain food groups or not). Don't need to overthink the process.

You know junk is not good for you, so don't eat so much junk - it's not just about calories, it's about your overall health. IMO, if we ate healthy food and lived a healthy lifestyle, we're naturally healthier - our skin is better and we 'glow'. We look better and feel better. Doesn't matter what plan we're on to achieve that goal.

My husband is one of those guys who can eat anything he wants and never gain weight. I swear, he lacks the ability to taste sweet - as opposed to me, who has the sweet tooth of a 6-year-old - but he does love chips, snack foods, fast food, and bar food. Pretty much anything processed or fried. He's also the kinda guy to eat whatever you put in front of him, though, whereas I am as picky as... well, a 6-year-old.

Like me, he's a foodie and has a particular love of French food. Unlike me, he was never very athletically inclined as a kid and much prefers video games and lounging around to going to the gym or being physically active. The one thing that works in his favor later in life is that he is a soldier in a very high-speed unit, and has PT daily, must run 2-5 miles a day (he's deployed and they have a 5-mile run tomorrow, in fact!) and his job is very physically demanding. So when he asked me last week how many calories a day he "should" be eating, I was unsurprised to find around 3,300-3,600 just to maintain his regular daily activity.

What a jerk :)

I'm among those of you who would eat and eat and eat if it had no consequences. Unless I'm eating a meal, I have an unlimited appetite. If I sit down and eat, I'll get full and stop for a few hours. However, if I'm sad or bored I'll snack constantly and not feel full. I loooove fast food, so I would eat that every night if it had no consequences.

My boyfriend's answer was that already eats and much as he wants without regard to his weight or health, so he wouldn't change.

Originally Posted by berryblondeboys:
No... it could happen. My son (9 years ago) had to be admitted to the hospital for jaundice. First, they wanted me to leave my 2 day old infant at the hospital ALONE and just bring in pumped milk or let them bottle feed him formula. HELLO??? How much milk do they think I would get? Also, the doctor said that if I wasn't an experienced mother, she would have insisted that I bottle feed him while he was there. And I did have to fight them to let me nurse him as often as he wanted and to guarantee that my milk was coming in.

Oh, and when we were in the hospital where he was born, they worried about him losing too much weight before checking out that they wanted me to feed him a bottle before releasing him.

AND... when he was 6 weeks old, a different doctor wanted me to wean him before having gall bladder surgery because I wouldn't be able to breastfeed for 24 hours or so...

So, yes... it is still out there - if they don't gain fast enough. If they seem fussy, etc. STILL advice is too readily given to stop breastfeeding by a LOT of professionals.

9 years is a big difference. I have a 7 year old and have seen practice changes. WannaB ahs referenced her child's age, and I'm fairly certain s/he is younger perhaps 2-4 years old.

Secondly, Jaundice is different. My youngest had it and up until VERY recently it was standard practice to with hold breast milk while treating jaundice. Formula feeding and even offering water is more effective in lowering bilirubin. They basically force feed the baby on a tight schedule. Bottle feeding is preferred in the hospital setting ESPECIALLY 9 years ago because it allowed an more accurate measurement if input vs output. When my son was in the pedi unit for jaundice my pediatrician recommend not breastfeeding, and of course being a nurse I understood why and knew he was not discouraging BFing but that there was real medical evidence as to why he would do that. However, he and I discussed that there have been increasing studies suggesting that BFing during jaundice may not be as harmful as once thought, though it still is obvious during treatment that bottle feeding formula more quickly decreases the bilirubin.

On the rest of the points you made, I will say again that 9 years is practically a life time in medicine and your experiences are slightly dated. I'm sure there are still doctors that when giving advice to a patient that is complaining of various problems like frequent night waking still recommend given some formula. I'm not saying this is sound advice, but pointing out that they are not discouraging, but rather giving poor advice to the new mother's problem. However, to suggest that healthcare professionals are actively discouraging breastfeeding just because and that they most be fought with to continue, is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by GlamourGirl827:
9 years is a big difference. I have a 7 year old and have seen practice changes. WannaB ahs referenced her child's age, and I'm fairly certain s/he is younger perhaps 2-4 years old.

Secondly, Jaundice is different. My youngest had it and up until VERY recently it was standard practice to with hold breast milk while treating jaundice. Formula feeding and even offering water is more effective in lowering bilirubin. They basically force feed the baby on a tight schedule. Bottle feeding is preferred in the hospital setting ESPECIALLY 9 years ago because it allowed an more accurate measurement if input vs output. When my son was in the pedi unit for jaundice my pediatrician recommend not breastfeeding, and of course being a nurse I understood why and knew he was not discouraging BFing but that there was real medical evidence as to why he would do that. However, he and I discussed that there have been increasing studies suggesting that BFing during jaundice may not be as harmful as once thought, though it still is obvious during treatment that bottle feeding formula more quickly decreases the bilirubin.

On the rest of the points you made, I will say again that 9 years is practically a life time in medicine and your experiences are slightly dated. I'm sure there are still doctors that when giving advice to a patient that is complaining of various problems like frequent night waking still recommend given some formula. I'm not saying this is sound advice, but pointing out that they are not discouraging, but rather giving poor advice to the new mother's problem. However, to suggest that healthcare professionals are actively discouraging breastfeeding just because and that they most be fought with to continue, is ridiculous.

Do you really think things can change so drastically in 9 years? I had 4 instances where're breast feeding was discouraged with 4 different situations and offices. Not all are going to hop on board that quickly.