I think that it is because various people fall into different categories and few know exactly what category they fall in – whether they will do better with total abstinence, or they aren’t carb or sugar or whatever sensitive (most people I know aren’t) or they are carb-addicts but not food addicts so they can manage their weight and eat carbs. Since people enjoy the act of eating carbs (um the conventional standard of what we think of when we mean carbs I don’t mean like all foods that contain carbs), it seems worth the “risk” of going for moderation and seeing if they fit into the “could live with moderation” category and trying to maintain them in the diet. Heck, I was an abstainer and for the most part I am, but I still work in days like vacation with carbs cause I like the “rush” it gives me to eat them – even the friggin plainest Saltine. If I can experience the euphoria AND maintain the weight?! JACKPOT. (so far my efforts have been relatively successful…after a period of abstinence and I can go back to low-carb afterwards). If lets say that cracker to me was as appealing as a…brussel sprout (TO ME haha) sure I’d do abstinent on that right away! I think that saying no 100% is a great option for some people, but I think that many agree that if they could choose in the first place to not have that addictive notion in the first place, they would. Well, I would. LOL

I posted something in the Men's Corner about NBA teams and players going low carb. I also posted something from cycling forums about it.

I found this link fascinating:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/08/hi...-your-cycling/

Fat is actually in many ways a better source for fuel than glucose. It has more calories, more fuel, per gram. It turns out you can be 'fat adapted'. You can be better at using fat as fuel. I personally have never eating lower amounts of carbs and I have never been more 'powerful' physically or had better endurance.

I do agree with Suzanne that there should be a better phrase on carbs. I know people use 'smart carbs' and I like that. I am still cautious of some fruit. I try not to have too many grapes and bananas. I can eat a lot of those. Most other fruit is self-regulating, it fills me up. And I've cut out fruit juice for me and my family completely, 100%.

It is very scary the sugar in fruit juices. Even the ones that say no added sugar.

I think endurance athletes are a bit different from us regular folk in general. Having said that, I've seen a lot from endurance athletes who definitely carb it up and have seen performance increases. I recently read about an elderly couple who ran a marathon every day for a month as part of a charity event and they ate primarily bananas. Also, I recently read Scott Jurek's book about his ultra running career (he has set many ultra running records) and he talks about the foods he eats while running and they are a lot of complex carbs, even bean burritos as one of his staples. The problem I have even with the endurance athletes that are eating tons of bananas to emulate their favorite endurance athletes are that they aren't endurance athletes themselves. Someone who runs a race for 16 hours at a 7 minute mile pace isn't really relevant to my life. It is interesting to read nonetheless.

Well my take away from the article was this. For almost everyone on the planet they can lower their carbs and perform just as well if not better in their activities. If you are a weekend warrior or frankly what 99%+ of the users of 3FC are in relation to activity you can do just fine on lowering carbs.

Your body will get more efficient at using fat. So if lowering carbs helps you reach other health and weight goals you will still have fuel from your activities. The second part which is linked to in my above link was fascinating how the person who was not low carb before became better and better at using fat as fuel as they changed their diet.

Now if you are a world class sprinter, world class swimmer, world class sprint cyclist then yes you may perform better with higher carbs. Maybe even if you are a weekend warrior who 'sprints' 5Ks. But for the majority of people my takeaway was low carbs still provides abundant fuel for activities. And as you transition away your body gets better and better.

I was very encouraged by this. Even a lot of NBA athletes who need explosive energy are finding they can dramatically reduce carbs in their daily lives and perform better. And that is their livelihood, athletic performance.

I got Jurek's book as well. It is a Kindle book of the month deal now. Can't wait to try making a huge batch of his lentil burgers. Seems like they will be awesome. And yes of course complex carbs and especially veggies have a big positive role in anyone's life. But I think there was this big mantra among professional athletes and then it trickled down to everyone 'carb loading' and it was just accepted as fact.

So I found those articles fascinating. Why? For me because I heard a lot about carb loading growing up but ZERO about fat adapting growing up. Zero until reading those articles actually.

And I agree with you that there isn't one way to skin a fruit. You can carb load and run marathons. But previously I think a lot of people thought they HAD to. So the articles were really interesting saying hey you more than likely do not have to. The general belief is still carb loading. So I really find these articles valuable.

As in everything, we are all an experiment of one. I think tweaking, reading, testing, etc and finding out what works for you is important. I started my weight loss journey over 8 years ago and it has been filled with losses, lots of maintenance and some gain. I will say I've experimented a lot, I learned a lot and for me personally, I feel better with a high carb diet.

If refined sugar isn't technically addictive, it's the next thing to it. I used to be willing to inconvenience myself to go out and get it. Now, I have a mix of fruit, Greek yogurt and frozen yogurt pops. A chocolate bar is just an occasional thing for me now.

Yes, I have had a couple of endocrinologists tell me that it's basically impossible for a t1 diabetic to lose weight, but that was before I lost 60 pounds. lol I am feeling a little dispair over my current situation, having a hard time believing I will ever see a number under 150. But there was a time that I was nearly certain that I couldn't lose weight at all. I spent many years adding veg and limiting meat, fat, dairy more and more. I figured out that a diet of pure meat and fat would cause me to lose completely by accident. I wasn't even doing it in the hopes of losing bc who woulda thought the veggies were *bad* for my weight loss?!!! So I will just have to figure this out and possibly go back to the diet that I lost the first 40 on, which was nothing but bacon, hamburger, a small amount of cheddar (1.5 ounces per day) and heavy whipping cream. I do hope, though, that I will be able to maintain while eating at least some veg. I have been able to maintain at a BMI of about 29 while eating a little veg, but no loss.

And ITA, for those of us who don't automatically lose when we eat less, it can be a constant n=1 experiment where the parameters are constantly changing and new obstacles are thrown in your path. Makes me want to scream when I hear phrases like "eat right" and the like. If only everything we learned about food in the 70's were true -- bc when they say eat right you know 99% of the time they mean lots of veg and whe grains and fruit and low fat.

On the bright side, though, I was actually a pound down this morning for the first time in weeks. I'll get there...

So, I have a question. If some people believe sugar is addictive, and that non-sweet carb laden foods such as bread, pasta, rice, and potatoes are basically sugar because they break down to be essentially the same thing in the body, then why are some people extremely fond of bread, pasta, etc but can completely control themselves around candy and desserts? If it was an addiction, I'd think the form of the sugar wouldn't matter so much and that ice cream or even cake (since it has flour in it) would be just as irresistible as cornbread or steamed rice.

Can anyone explain? I ask this as someone who enjoys sweet things, but 99% of the time can completely self-regulate with them. Bread, potatoes and the like are a different story- savory carbs (and I don't mean excessively processed ones like Pringles or something) have always been my favorite thing to eat. Until recently, it's always been hard to only have a small spoonful of mac and cheese or one dinner roll. Really though, I'm not sure if it's hard because I feel a "need" to have more carbs, or if it's just that I like them a lot.

Side note- I've improved a lot since I've changed the way I eat 3 months ago. I've extremely reduced all starchy/grain based carbohydrates and most of the time don't have a problem with eating just 1 tortilla chip (ingredients being corn, oil, and salt- nothing freaky) or a small bite of my husband's pizza. One meal a week I do allow myself a meal where I can have whatever I want. I almost always pick a bowl of mac and cheese, a glass of orange juice, and a cookie or a bit of candy for dessert! I've also been able to keep my favorite carb laden foods in the house for my husband and have only dipped into them when I wasn't supposed to a couple of times.

Another variable in the discussion of the possibly addictive nature of sugar and/or carbs is sweetness. I recently spent 7-8 months on a restricted calorie, low carb diet (20-30 grams/day) and acquired a taste for Splenda (sucralose) products.

Before the diet, I never sweetened my coffee. Since, I use vanilla protein shake as a lightener and don't tolerate the old non-sweetened coffee. I'm really stuck on Mio, a sucralose water flavor additive that leaves a mildly sweet aftertaste. I go through the day feeling as if I just had some candy. I'm stuck on these things now when I normally avoid artificially colored and sweetened things as much as possible. I used to be a poly-carb offender getting into trouble with both sweets and savories. Now sweets definitely appeal more, whether or not they have sugar.

Recently the NY Times had an article describing an experiment in which lab rats preferred sugar to cocaine. Noted obesity researcher Robert Lustig says that the same reward center in the brain "lights up" when subjects have either sugar or heroin. He suggests artificial sweeteners may be addictive.

If this was the one that came out in October, the experiment used Oreos which have a mix of fats and sugar, and I'm guessing sodium. The book, "The end of Overeating" talks about the powerful triad of fats, sugar and salt. It isn't just sugar alone that creates an addictive pathway but you combine all 3, which many processed foods do, and it can have an addictive effect on people.

Ugh I've always wondered why I feel so differently about bland/savory carbs like bread vs pie. Pie doesn't tempt me, bread does and yet I find bread to be bland/boring. I eat it and I feel my brain getting turned on but I don't think mmmm tasty like I would with a really good dessert. It totally trumps taste for me and I have no idea why.

Thanks for the correction--I'm sure it's the same article. I made the leap that it was about the sugar.

Well I think what we see from this thread is that it seems to be the mixture of sugar/carbs and fat that most people find addictive. I mean very few people find fruit addictive but cookies, pasta, bread with butter, potato chips, candy bars, etc. usually all those have a mix of high carbs, fat and probably also sodium.

I think sugar is addictive. I think refined carbs can lead to sugar cravings. That's how it works for me. But not for one second do I want to villainize carbs, no way. I'm not going down that road. Technically I feel better when I limit my carb intake and be mindful of it. Like I'm allowed to go crazy on a salad, but just one serving of potatoes please!

If carbs were really the problem then all of Italy (pasta), France (bread), Germany (potatoes), and Asia (rice) would have significant obesity problems. Yes, their obesity rates are growing too but it's not because of the national carb intake, it's because of processed food.

Even if sugar or other types of carbs are addictive the way alcohol can be addictive, different solutions for addiction work for different people.

You (OP) raise the analogy to alcoholism. But it is not a given that the only way to deal with alcoholism is complete abstinence. That is the approach advocated by AA and it is a popular approach, but it is not by any means the only one. There are people who consider themselves alcoholics and yet manage to drink occasionally and in moderation. You might know such people and never know that they fall in this category, because you have never noticed them conspicuously not drinking at a social event!

The same is true for food-related addictions. Some people who perceive their problem as a carb addiction might fare best with complet abstinence. Others might find a moderation approach works better for them and the lifestyle they want. Still others might not experience their relationship with carbs as addiction at all. There is no one-size-fits-all answer.