The obesity rates in these countries are catching up to ours, by the way. There seems to be a correlation between 2-3 generations after modern, western food fare hits these countries that the diabesity universe of symptoms and diseases begins to manifest, and more severe quickly continuing from there (and showing up in the juvenile populations as well).

Too many straw man arguments to deal with in this area. Suffice to say the general simplification in the questions and aspersions regarding low carb is that calories in/calories out is king. And it ignores the massive and (I'd argue) root issue that there is a intimate link between the content and quantity of the calories IN that directly affects the behavior and signaling of the body, and energy utilization from there (decreases on NEAT, higher or lower efficiency at storage of the energy, quicker demand for more despite sufficient intake, etc).

Originally Posted by Arctic Mama:
The obesity rates in these countries are catching up to ours, by the way.

...because they're abandoning their traditional diets. When the traditional Japanese diet, which is over 80% carbs, is eaten, obesity is almost non-existent. Add meat, fat and processed foods, and it rises. It's not carbs, it's crappy food, and crappy food can have any macronutrient breakdown.

If weight loss is just all about "calories in... calories out"... and just a simple matter of an energy equation... then the real challenge becomes making the just "eat less and exercise more" formula work... which unfortunately, we seem to be failing at miserably...

And also even more unfortunately, with the current rates of prediabetes and diabetes and their rather staggering projected increases in the future... some level of carbohydrate restriction will become the rule rather than the exception for many...

Originally Posted by Ija:
...because they're abandoning their traditional diets. When the traditional Japanese diet, which is over 80% carbs, is eaten, obesity is almost non-existent. Add meat, fat and processed foods, and it rises. It's not carbs, it's crappy food, and crappy food can have any macronutrient breakdown.

I do think a lot of inactivity contributes but yeah, rice is a staple and has been for centuries in many Asian countries where obesity is unheard of. When I went to China, everyone was slim except in Beijing I did see some chubby (possibly overweight but not quite obese) people. My husband is a skinny guy, wears size small (sometimes medium) and we tried to see if we could find clothes for him but even their largest size shirts in the store barely fit him. Now part of that is just petiteness but I figured he has so much trouble finding small clothes here (everything too big) that we could find a couple things in China and we couldn't.

And when I talked to people about their normal diet, it was basically huge bowl of rice with some meat/vegetables used almost as condiments. Pretty amazing.

Unfortunately, with the advent of the global industrial diet... getting people to return to "traditional" diets is going be a tall order... and probably for the most part impossible... I think that "ship has sailed" so to speak... Which leaves us stuck with dealing with the current food supply and all of it's problems both real and imagined...

I agree with that, I just think that the fact that most of the non-westernized world eats mostly carbs without problems that we have like obesity points to the fact that carbs themselves aren't the issue.

I also forgot about when we saw a pizza hut in China. I was surprised to find that American chains charge (nearly) American prices considering the exchange value was something like 8:1. So we would see families sitting in Pizza hut, sharing a pizza about the size of a personal pan pizza and it would've been equivalent to $40 for them to do so.

Originally Posted by JohnP:
I have no doubt that you've got metabolic syndrome, so high carb intake is bad for you.

Approximately 34% of the population meets the criteria for metabolic syndrome... So do you believe that high carb intake is bad for them as well?

We've all read that people in certain countries consume 3,000+ cals a day including heavy carbs. I guess the difference between them and us is activity levels. Europeans have very small portions and walk everywhere.

I think we just have too much processed/cheap food/huge portions and sedentary lifestyles. I think carbs are irrelevant. Granted I'm talking about rice, not cake and cookies. It still boils down to calories in vs. out and being at a deficit. There really is no other way.

If someone was forced into captivity and only fed 3 cups of rice a day they would lose weight regardless if they had insulin issues or not.

I was right about carbs being taboo though...7 page debate proves my suspicion. ;)

Again, I have no issues with people eating low carb (ie low calorie) it's whatever works for you. I was just wondering for someone like myself that is very physically active and what my coach used to tell me back when I was an athlete.

Originally Posted by novangel:
If someone was forced into captivity and only fed 3 cups of rice a day they would lose weight regardless...

This might be what I need to lose these last few pounds... :D

Originally Posted by TripSwitch:
Approximately 34% of the population meets the criteria for metabolic syndrome... So do you believe that high carb intake is bad for them as well?

Did you somehow get the impression that I am against low carbing? I'm not and I suggest cutting carbs to just about anyone interested in losing fat. There seems to be a disconnect in the communication which if we were talking in person would probably long since be resolved.

The issue I take exception too, is causality. I don't know the percentage of people who are born insulin resistant but it is a low percentage. Clearly there is a genetic component and it is also very likely to have a scale rather than a yes or no. From there - it is a multi factoral problem. The food we eat and lack of activity are the primary culprits but there are others.

I don't believe that insulin resistance is the cause of our obesity crisis because our genetics have not radically changed since the 1950s when people started gaining weight. If you read the articles I linked, a surprising number of morbidly obese people still have normal functioning insulin responses.

I'm pro low carb for most people. I just thinking blaming insulin is looking at the problem wrong.

I don't have a problem with low carb diets either. It's the unnecessary carb-bashing that I don't care for. And no, personal anecdotes aren't proof that carbs make you fat, unless you manage to do a blind study control trial on yourself in which all other variables are accounted for (including your beliefs and expectations). Which is not possible.

But no, I don't think low carb diets are bad. When I was in losing mode, I cut carbs A LOT because I was consuming way too many of them. But I was also eating a lot of everything when I was fat, not just rice, pasta, potatoes and bread. Nowadays when I want to drop a few pounds I cut more carbs than anything else because it's the easiest way for me to drop calories. I will not cut meat :-)

At this moment in time..im currently on a diet consuming fruits and veggies...that is my main staple for the 40 days...in their raw form...I used to think i was insulin resistant...but eating veggies and fruits that are considered high carb, dont make me gain weight...In fact i feel great! I wish i had thought about learning to eat a variety of veggies and fruit before this..I probably would have had less stomach digestion issues..

I think that are food has to be looked at in terms of quality..Personally i love rice..cooked rice tastes great..so does veggies and fruits that are high in sugar ect...but its not these things that has made Canada or the US fat...its the quality of the food that we buy, that we dont give much thought to..for example: The frozen pizza you buy at the store, or the Jalepeno Poppers you ingest or the chicken fingers or the Wings in the frozen food isle..or the crackers and pop tarts and stuff like this..Its not the sugar content im even concerned about..its the lack of nutrition in it...not to mention all the ingredients that dont even look natural..

Im a mom to a daughter. I dont like her having sugar..so i gave her sugar free raspberry syrup by Torani thinking that some of that in sparkling water would be better for her then something sugar laden like pop. I give it to her..and less then 20 minutes in and we are rushing her into the emergency room because she has had an allergic reaction... Its not the artificial sugar,she has had it before..its not the red food dye..she has eaten red jello before...then what is it ? Who knows? Point is..we dont know about everything we are injesting..and we dont know the effect it is even having on our body.. Another prime example: Low carb protein shakes. Have you read some of the ingredients on those shakes? Like muscle milk for example? Do you know what is in it? We call these "healthy" and "low carb" but are they really "healthy?" If anything..i pity the Asian people..for them being overwhelmed by the number of Western Choices now available to them in place of a traditional diet..sure its their choice..but lets face it..if having to choose a portion of meat over top of rice with a few vegetables..wouldnt you more then likely want to go out and eat at pizza hut or grab a burger at mcdonalds?

I personally find its not the carbs themselves but the type of carbs... I can eat pasta - in small amounts avoid bread but eat potatoes and rice no problems. I often wonder if its the yeast in bread of just the amount of processing that goes into it. Also if we eat like we did when we were 18 we would need to train twice as hard as I am certain our metabolism slows down as we get older weather or not its true or its we slow down I do not know.

Thought for the day -If you make your own bread can you eat it and feel less guilty then you would if it was made in a bread maker or brought from the shop, - as you would have kneaded it for a while - and if you have made your own bread you do need to knead it quite a while.

My goal is to bake / make our own bread / cakes/cookies etc - simply because I 1. Know what goes into it and 2. I eat less of what I make because I look at it and it remind's me of how long it took to make


I think - the less processed the food the better! so back to whole foods cook your own stuff - and make that pizza from scratch so you control what goes into the base what goes on the top - the Hairy bikers - aka the hairy dieters did a couple of episodes where they made pizza and pies healthy but supposedly still taste good - and the biggest reason they were healthier they made them not brought them

Originally Posted by Porthardygurl:
..sure its their choice..but lets face it..if having to choose a portion of meat over top of rice with a few vegetables..wouldnt you more then likely want to go out and eat at pizza hut or grab a burger at mcdonalds?

Heck no! Give me meat w/ rice and sauteed vegetables any day over pizza or McDonalds but maybe that's just me. Perhaps the Asians are sick of their traditional food, they can send it my way. :p

[QUOTE=35X35;4652805
People didn't begin to become obese in America or anywhere else until portion sizes and non-stop eating became out of control.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree. I live in Canada, where the obesity epidemic isn't quite as pronounced as in the U.S. (though it's still a problem). Whenever I go to the U.S., I'm AMAZED at the portion sizes -- and I'm no delicate flower when it comes to portions.

My son and I are going to Texas next week. He'll be staying with a friend in Austin, and he told me they plan to go to a restaurant where they can order a take-out burrito that weighs SEVEN POUNDS. They'll be eating it throughout the day, but WTF?

I'll be staying with my best childhood friend, who lives in San Antonio. When we talked on the phone recently, she warned me that she had gained weight. This kid was skinny the whole time we lived in Montreal (until our mid-twenties). She had good eating habits and I never saw her overeating. What happened to her? Probably nothing more complicated than being surrounded by those giant-size Texas portions, which her friends all take as the norm.

Freelance