How does weight training affect weight loss?
 

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking about starting weight training but I have seen in some people's posts that weight training might stop weight loss. Is this true and why?

Is it just water weight that goes away with soreness?
Or is it muscle gain? I have a hard time believing we can build muscle at the rate of typical weight loss (i.e. 1-2 lbs/week), so the number on the scale should still go down right?

Thanks for your input!

It's quite possible to see a temporary stall on the scale or a small gain due to water retention when you first begin weight training, or when you increase your training in some way. But you will still be losing weight if you're creating a calorie deficit (even if you don't see it on the scale right away), and strength training is an excellent idea during weight loss. If you DON'T do strength training, you will lose muscle along with the fat.

I think the amount of muscle you can GAIN during weight loss depends on the person. You will likely see strength gains initially, but it may taper off so that what you're really doing with the strength training is just preventing muscle loss. However (and others who know more can correct me here :) ), I think it's possible for some people to continue gaining some muscle/strength while maintaining a calorie deficit over the long-term. For me personally, I know that I have been able to continue to increase my reps, sets, weight, etc. throughout my weight loss. The strength improvements are slow, but they are noticeable.

Weight loss is not important.

Fat loss is.

Lifting weights promotes fat loss for a number of reasons.

Lifting weights can slow down weight loss for a number of reasons - all of them are beneficial to fat loss.

Originally Posted by chickadee32:
It's I think it's possible for some people to continue gaining some muscle/strength while maintaining a calorie deficit over the long-term. For me personally, I know that I have been able to continue to increase my reps, sets, weight, etc. throughout my weight loss. The strength improvements are slow, but they are noticeable.

Strength improvements of the kind you're talking about are neurological. It is only possible to gain muscle in a caloric deficit for a short period of time - typically 3-6 months and the amount of muscle a woman will gain is fairly minimal.

The physiological processes of losing fat and gaining muscle are opposed to one another and do not happen simultaneously.

Thanks JohnP! I understand strength training is important but I really want to understand how it affects weight loss and why.

Do you know why lifting weights may slow down weight loss? Particularly, if as you say, we don't gain muscle during weight loss?

Originally Posted by sparklegirl07:
Thanks JohnP! I understand strength training is important but I really want to understand how it affects weight loss and why.

Do you know why lifting weights may slow down weight loss? Particularly, if as you say, we don't gain muscle during weight loss?

I see how you're confused. Before I answer your question I want you to understand the difference between weight loss and fat loss. You can lose fat but have the scale continue showing the same number. Two people with idential bone structure can weigh exactly the same but have dramatically different bodies.

Weight is how much you weigh when you step on the scale. Everything on your body adds to this weight but for the sake of making this very easy to understand lets just consider your bones, your muscle, and fat.

When you lift weights while dieting your body retains more weight than it would if you were not lifting. When you diet without lifting you lose fat and muscle.

When you lift weights you increase bone density. If you don't lift you don't.

Retaining muscle and increasing bone density will make the scale slow down for a while. How long depends on the individual.

Ultimately though, the greater weight you're carrying around and the higher percentage of muscle you have will make fat loss easier as you approach your goal weight.

I've seen it many many times where someone gets close to goal weight and can't understand why they look like crap. I'm talking more about men but no doubt women exerience the same thing. It's because due to a lack of lifting they've lost a lot of muscle along with the fat.

So yes - lifting slows down weight loss because initially you're gaining muscle and then later retaining it and all along you're increasing your bone density. Your weight is just a number on the scale - it doesn't matter. That is why experts reccomend people take pictures and measurements because the number on the scale is simply how much you weigh. What we actually care about is body fat percentage.

Hope this has helped.

Thank you for that very informative post, John. I'm just looking at getting started with lifting some weights so info like this is really interesting! :)

John has nailed it. I lift heavy and because of genetics I build muscle quickly. I recently went through a stall on the scale but have been droping inches, now I'm almost in a size 8 at 187lbs! Muscle makes you look lean and curvy and helps you burn more fat :) It's totally worth it for the look you want, the strength you want to feel if you don't mind the scale not moving as quickly as you want it too. Go my measurements and how your clothing feels!

Just wanted to say that it's a breath of fresh air reading your post, John. I'm new around here, but not to forums in general and I'll just say that there are a lot of communities on the net that lack such a voice of reason and experience.

So good on you for helping out!

To add...

John nailed everything about resistance training and why it, in my opinion, must be in place for most people to reach their physique and health/performance goals.

That said, it can do all sorts of things in relation to stress and how your body responds to stress. I'm not talking about the typical adaptations we see in response to progressive resistance training - muscle growth/maintenance, increased skeletal growth, fiber type shifts, improvements in nervous system function in relation to muscle action, etc.

I'm talking more along the lines of stress on systemic levels. And when you start messing around on that level, water fluctuations abound. Especially in women. Especially in women who don't have all that much fat to lose. And this can really toy with the mind, especially seeing as how lighter females aren't going to lose fat quickly no matter what they do and how water shifts week to week can easily mask true fat loss.

None of this means terribly much. Maybe it helps highlight why it's important to rely on a variety of metrics to measure progress. The scale's meaningfulness becomes less and less the closer you get to your goal.

Just wanted to add a couple things. Weight lifting makes you smaller - more compact. I've been doing resistance training for several months. Recently, I've ramped it up a bit and my body is looking much better (so is my husband's who does it with me).

Yesterday, my mother in law and I went shopping together which is something we never do. She is looking for a lightweight summer pant, so we went to REI. She and I are the same height and about the same weight (give or take 5 pounds - me being a tad less than she). She has a tiny frame and is unfit. I have a large frame and am getting fit. I needed a size 8 in the same pant she needed a size 14. While she is a bit more bottom heavy than me, she's put on the weight pretty evenly. It made me realize how much weight lifting has made me SMALLER - more compact.

But then JohnP and Steve Troutman I have a question. This past week especially I've noticed I'm getting hungrier and unlike in the past where it was sugar I was craving, I'm finding I'm craving ANY food - I want huge salads. Meat. Fruit. Veggies - not junk, just more food. I've upped my caloric intake a wee bit (1450 to 1650) to help keep from feeling starving, but it's not like I'm doing TONS of stuff.

Saturday I did one hour of cardio (I missed the resistance class this week). I did nothing on Sunday. I did 1 hours of resistance training on Monday and one hour of Cardio. Tuesday I did nothing. Wednesday I did 45 minutes of resistance training and then 45 minutes of cardio. Thursday I did nothing. Today I'm mowing and working around the yard for exercise and will do one hour of resistance training tomorrow (saturday). So, it's not like I'm killing myself at the gym. I'm trying to figure out if I'm truly hungry, or sleep deprived hungry. So hard to figure it out!

I too was worried about this-as much as my body composition should matter more to me than my weight, I do care about reaching goal weight a lot.
Did some googling-
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/female_athletes.htm
8. Bulking up is calorie dependant. This means if you eat more than you are burning, you will gain weight. If you eat less than you are burning, you will lose weight. Unfortunately, most female athletes perceive any weight gain as “bulking up” and do not give attention to the fact that they are simply getting fatter. As Todd Hamer, a strength and conditioning coach at George Mason University said, “Squats don’t bulk you up. It’s the ten beers a night that bulk you up.” This cannot be emphasized enough.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11350094...aining-weight/

There's some evidence that exercise may boost your appetite . But don't fall into the trap of thinking that because you're exercising, it's OK to take in a bunch more calories, says Molly Kimball, a sports nutritionist at Ochsner Clinic's Elmwood Fitness Center in New Orleans.

Here's an example of why that's a mistake: "An average 150-pound person will burn about 300 calories during 30 minutes of pretty intense cardiovascular exercise," Kimball says. "This 300 calories, plus much more, can easily be consumed without realizing it with something as simple as a normal-sized baked potato or sweet potato or a six-inch Subway sandwich."

So what about strength training — can't extra muscle account for added weight?

While strength training builds muscle mass, it's highly unlikely that you've gained 10 pounds of muscle in one month, says Ivy. It's just not that easy.

Once I started hitting the gym and on the cardio machines a few days ago, I ate more too. I know that this does NOT have to happen-in the past, I would just buckle down and refuse to eat more, but nowadays I would rather take a longer time and walk around outside and not feel the appetite increase, than go back on the treadmill. I'll reserve my higher cal days for 1x a week kickboxing (I am doing this more as a stress outlet than anything else) :carrot:

Originally Posted by berryblondeboys:
But then JohnP and Steve Troutman I have a question. This past week especially I've noticed I'm getting hungrier and unlike in the past where it was sugar I was craving, I'm finding I'm craving ANY food - I want huge salads. Meat. Fruit. Veggies - not junk, just more food. I've upped my caloric intake a wee bit (1450 to 1650) to help keep from feeling starving, but it's not like I'm doing TONS of stuff.

Hunger is a complex topic and I am not an expert. I'm only a relative expert (I know more than my relatives.)

The lower your bodyfat, the lower the leptin levels will be in your body. Leptin is one of the primary drivers of hunger. To take it to the extreme levels this is why you'll see bodybuilders do some epic binges over several days because they've become so lean and essentially have been starving themselves for months. It is also why as you aproach goal weight and vanity lbs it is important to lose weight slowly and have occasional refeeds.

In your case what might help is cycling calories around those 90 minute workouts and eating a little more on workout days and a little less on off days.

Berry.... any idea how many grams of protein, carbs, and fats you're consuming per day, on average?

Originally Posted by berryblondeboys:
But then JohnP and Steve Troutman I have a question. This past week especially I've noticed I'm getting hungrier and unlike in the past where it was sugar I was craving, I'm finding I'm craving ANY food - I want huge salads. Meat. Fruit. Veggies - not junk, just more food. I've upped my caloric intake a wee bit (1450 to 1650) to help keep from feeling starving, but it's not like I'm doing TONS of stuff.

I did notice that like you I was craving more "real food" ever since I upped my weight training. I actually haven't had any grains in almost a week simply because I didn't want them. I wanted straight up chicken and veggies, not a chicken, cheese, lettuce and tomato wrap. Instead chips I want nuts, etc.

I don't necessarily mind this, but it certainly is strange nonetheless.

JohnP I was just wondering if I could get some clarification on something you said.

Originally Posted by :
The physiological processes of losing fat and gaining muscle are opposed to one another and do not happen simultaneously.

Although I've done some resistance training (mainly body weight based) I'm about to start lifting heavy and I'm hoping to actually build some muscle that I know I've lost. So just to be sure, you are saying that while you are building muscle, you won't be losing fat, presumably because you need to be eating an excess of calories. Is that correct? And is a true excess needed, or can you build muscle at maintenance? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but I just wanted to be sure.

And one more question, if I still have some body fat I want lose, would it be a good idea to stay at a reasonable calorie deficient for a bit while I learn form, eta. and then increase my calories later to start building muscle?

Thanks.

You need to stop paying so much attention to the scale and start looking at your body fat percentage. You could have two women who weigh the same but one is 20% body fat and the other is 25% body fat. They'll look totally different. Muscle weighs more than fat but takes up less space. Translation: you'll weigh more but look a lot smaller. I know it's hard not to pay attention to the scale but how you look in your clothes and what your body fat is more important. Just my .02 cents. :)

FWIW, I'm 5'6 tall (so not petite) and weigh 124 lbs. Went shopping the other day for a pair of pants and was a size 2. Used to be a size 8 in high school, weighing the same. Weight training was the game changer for me. Also, it has helped me look a little more curvier and less linear too.

Weight or strength training is crucial for successfully losing weight and keeping it off.Strength training aids in weight loss by increasing muscle mass so that the body burns more calories even when at rest.As a matter of fact, weight training is better for long-term weight loss than dieting. Dieters often regain their lost weight, whereas weight trainers seldom do. This is because eating fewer calories lowers the body’s metabolic rate, or the number of calories burned during various activities. As a result, after dieting for a while, it takes fewer calories to gain weight.

And with regards to building muscle, you should understand that this is a very gradual process and one that takes time. Basically, you should start seeing some initial growth in about 2 weeks to a month after the initial strength increase happens. But of course this is not exact and everyone is different so some may take longer and some shorter. It depends on your age, diet, rest levels, and so on.

Thanks all! Know what I did just after sending that message? I took a 3 hour nap! I haven't done that in eons - like for over a year. I was exhausted. When I woke up - no hunger.

That's really interesting as a big reason for my after pregnancy weight gains were pure exhaustion. Neither of my babies slept (like getting up 5-7 times a night, every night for 3 years kind of exhaustion). Then I just craved crap - carbs, sugar. THis time I just craved FOOD.

I'm wondering if my preferences are changing? (That would be a nice change). But I'll watch it more closely.

To answer about my breakdown of nutrients. I've been all over the place, but like 80-90 fats (mostly nut/avocado/olive oil fats), 120-140 carbs (no pasta, rice, sweet potatoes or bread - but I've been having one cookie a day in the morning), 80-90 protein.

I need to lower my carbs as I've had blood sugar issues in the past. Easier said than done. I'm not a big meat lover and I'm not a big dairy fan. Beans are great, and I eat them, I do, but they also count in the carb count, though I don't consider them 'carbs' like rice or bread.

Originally Posted by flashfacts:
So just to be sure, you are saying that while you are building muscle, you won't be losing fat, presumably because you need to be eating an excess of calories. Is that correct? And is a true excess needed, or can you build muscle at maintenance? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but I just wanted to be sure.

And one more question, if I still have some body fat I want lose, would it be a good idea to stay at a reasonable calorie deficient for a bit while I learn form, eta. and then increase my calories later to start building muscle?

To clarify - only someone new to weight lifting or someone coming from a long layoff can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

Building muscle (except in beginners) requires a caloric surplus.

Losing fat requires a caloric deficit.

You can build strength slowly at maintinence but not muscle.

If you want to add muscle (you must be male?) and you still have some fat to lose the answer is it depends. To put yourself in an ideal place to gain muscle you should get down to 10-12% body fat first but if you're fairly new to lifting and don't have much muscle than it really is up to you because you're so far from your genetic potential it will be easier to put on muscle.

That said - this really isn't the site for your best answers. I'd suggest you go read a lot on Lyle McDonald's forum along with his articles. Don't get lost in the details though. To put on muscle the most important thing is to work your butt off in the gym but do so intelligently while getting plenty of rest and eating at a surplus but not too big of one.

JohnP Thanks for your answer. I'm actually female, and its not that I want to gain a lot of muscle. Just after almost 2 years of a calorie deficient and the fact I wasn't doing any resistance training for over half of that I'd been hoping to maybe regain some of the muscle that I (as I understand) have most likely lost. I also feel like that is some difference in my limbs relative to about 5 years ago, but that might be my mind playing tricks on me.

Originally Posted by JohnP:
To clarify - only someone new to weight lifting or someone coming from a long layoff can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

Building muscle (except in beginners) requires a caloric surplus.

Losing fat requires a caloric deficit.

You can build strength slowly at maintinence but not muscle.

If you want to add muscle (you must be male?) and you still have some fat to lose the answer is it depends. To put yourself in an ideal place to gain muscle you should get down to 10-12% body fat first but if you're fairly new to lifting and don't have much muscle than it really is up to you because you're so far from your genetic potential it will be easier to put on muscle.


That said - this really isn't the site for your best answers. I'd suggest you go read a lot on Lyle McDonald's forum along with his articles. Don't get lost in the details though. To put on muscle the most important thing is to work your butt off in the gym but do so intelligently while getting plenty of rest and eating at a surplus but not too big of one.

This is good to know since I haven't lifted a dumbbell since highschool!!

A female that WANTS to build muscle? Cool! :D

Here is a blog you'll probably like. They have a Facebook group too but I can't join ... only women can. :(

http://www.fiercefitfearless.blogspot.com/

It is such a complex topic!!!

I ate at a pretty decent surplus all winter while lifting heavy. (on purpose... I'm crazy and wanted to see how far I could push it without gaining. The number on the scale stayed pretty constant but I have built noticeable muscle on all parts of my body. Measurements overall are down quite a bit, too.

I'm eating at a deficit now, to try and lose this last chunk of fat. I was fine for several weeks but now I'm STARVING. Like I could eat an entire farm hungry. The weight is coming off very slowly, but the scale is moving again. I'm not noticing any big drops in measurements, so this worries me. Like John said, the scale doesn't concern me as much as BF% and measurements do.

Question being... Do I continue to lift heavy? Is it possible to maintain the muscle/strength I've gained while eating at a deficit to lose fat?

Sometimes it feels like such a guessing game!

Originally Posted by ValRock:
Question being... Do I continue to lift heavy? Is it possible to maintain the muscle/strength I've gained while eating at a deficit to lose fat?

Yes - the key is to lower your volume but keep the intensity high when you're dieting. Because you're at a deficit it is difficult to recover from a major workout which is why you want to keep the volume low but keeping the intensity (the actual weight you're lifting) high you're in essence letting the body know it needs to keep those muscles. You actually only need to hit a muscle once a week hard to maintain it although every 5 days is probably better.

As for hunger - this is another reason to keep volume low. Higher volume tends to make people more hungry.

Originally Posted by JohnP:
Yes - the key is to lower your volume but keep the intensity high when you're dieting. Because you're at a deficit it is difficult to recover from a major workout which is why you want to keep the volume low but keeping the intensity (the actual weight you're lifting) high you're in essence letting the body know it needs to keep those muscles. You actually only need to hit a muscle once a week hard to maintain it although every 5 days is probably better.

As for hunger - this is another reason to keep volume low. Higher volume tends to make people more hungry.

Great!! Thank you!! I was kind of leaning that direction, this confirms it :). I stepped my weights back to TueThuF and alternate upper/lower body so I'm hitting every muscle group about that often. Light cardio or walking on the off days. This hunger is killing me! I'll try to lesson the reps and up the weight and see if that helps. I'm dizzy low blood sugar hungry... I know how to deal with emotional hunger, but this is pretty new to me!

Originally Posted by ValRock:
Great!! Thank you!! I was kind of leaning that direction, this confirms it :). I stepped my weights back to TueThuF and alternate upper/lower body so I'm hitting every muscle group about that often. Light cardio or walking on the off days. This hunger is killing me! I'll try to lesson the reps and up the weight and see if that helps. I'm dizzy low blood sugar hungry... I know how to deal with emotional hunger, but this is pretty new to me!

ValRock-you are actually the first person I think of when I think of female lifters! May I ask-how much have you lost per week or month since you've been trying to lose weight? Thanks! :^:

Originally Posted by ValRock:
Great!! Thank you!! I was kind of leaning that direction, this confirms it :). I stepped my weights back to TueThuF and alternate upper/lower body so I'm hitting every muscle group about that often. Light cardio or walking on the off days. This hunger is killing me! I'll try to lesson the reps and up the weight and see if that helps. I'm dizzy low blood sugar hungry... I know how to deal with emotional hunger, but this is pretty new to me!

Sounds like you're doing things right but if you're dizzy you probably need more calories.

This thread has utterly confused me. :( So, if I can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, then I shouldn't be strength training at all if I want to lose fat? But then in another comment it says, gaining muscle helps you burn fat. Which one then is it??

Originally Posted by pixelllate:
ValRock-you are actually the first person I think of when I think of female lifters! May I ask-how much have you lost per week or month since you've been trying to lose weight? Thanks! :^:

It took me 2 years to lose the first 90 lbs. There were weeks I maintained, weeks I gained, weeks I lost a lot. So I can't really say how it averaged out. It's been a slow process, and I think it works better that way (for me).

I maintained for the whole last year eating at a surplus, for most of it, and weight training.

I'm back (as of Feb 1) to keeping track of calories and trying to cut the last bit of fat :). I've lost 6 lbs since I got back on the wagon, so to speak.

Just keep at it, you'll reach your goals!

Originally Posted by meltaway:
This thread has utterly confused me. :( So, if I can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, then I shouldn't be strength training at all if I want to lose fat? But then in another comment it says, gaining muscle helps you burn fat. Which one then is it??

It's both. What I got from this discussion was that the more fit you are the harder it is to lose what fat you have left plus build more muscle (because you need a calorie excess to build muscle, but a calorie deficit to lose fat). But the more you have to lose/more out of shape you are, the more you are able to build muscle and lose fat. At the very least when you weight train you are maintaining the muscle you currently have while you are losing fat; if one doesn't do weight training and loses weight, one is losing muscle and fat, which of course isn't good (to lose the muscle I mean). Hope that made sense, and hope that was indeed what all of the posts meant.

Originally Posted by JohnP:
A female that WANTS to build muscle? Cool! :D

Here is a blog you'll probably like. They have a Facebook group too but I can't join ... only women can. :(

http://www.fiercefitfearless.blogspot.com/

Give us a little credit John!!! :lifter::lol:

So at the end of the day, weight training is still causing fat loss right? And whether I see it on the scale or not, I should see it in measurements?

Originally Posted by meltaway:
This thread has utterly confused me. :( So, if I can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, then I shouldn't be strength training at all if I want to lose fat? But then in another comment it says, gaining muscle helps you burn fat. Which one then is it??

If you're not strength training while dieting/losing fat, you're going to lose muscle, and that is a very, very bad thing to do. You should always strength train, whether you're losing, maintaining, gaining, whatever.

Just strength train.

Originally Posted by ValRock:
It took me 2 years to lose the first 90 lbs. There were weeks I maintained, weeks I gained, weeks I lost a lot. So I can't really say how it averaged out. It's been a slow process, and I think it works better that way (for me).

I maintained for the whole last year eating at a surplus, for most of it, and weight training.

I'm back (as of Feb 1) to keeping track of calories and trying to cut the last bit of fat :). I've lost 6 lbs since I got back on the wagon, so to speak.

Just keep at it, you'll reach your goals!

Thank you so much! Glad to hear about your progress.
Went to the gym this morning...tried to do some planks and bicycle rows. WOAH. They look really simple, in fact I know some people make fun of those ("inshape mag type exercises). even with my mini weights, I had a hard time-all those muscles I've never worked and it involved coordination lol. I tried my best though, and I am going again this Friday and hopefully I will get better.

Originally Posted by pixelllate:
Thank you so much! Glad to hear about your progress.
Went to the gym this morning...tried to do some planks and bicycle rows. WOAH. They look really simple, in fact I know some people make fun of those ("inshape mag type exercises). even with my mini weights, I had a hard time-all those muscles I've never worked and it involved coordination lol. I tried my best though, and I am going again this Friday and hopefully I will get better.

You'll get there! Planks are serious business! My abs are killing me from the sets I did on Saturday! The good news is, that as you build those muscles it'll help your coordination and balance and it'll be easier to lift more :). I was a mess when I first started, and now the motions are pretty automatic. It can feel a bit awkward at first, though. Keep at it!

Weight traIning and weight loss
 

While weight training does increase metabolism the increase is very minor. For example there have been myths that each pound of muscle built can increase resting calories burned by 50 per day. Now considering a person who weighs about 150 lbs and is about 30 percent body fat which is high would have about give , or take 75 lbs of muscle. The average person is about 40 to 50 percent. Lower for women more for men. So at 75 lbs of muscle sitting on your butt you would burn off 3750 calories and that would be with out moving and assuming nothing else in the body burns calories, which is not true. So this is not the case. 10 calories or so a day extra per pound is more realistic. Now this isn't a lot, but it still is extra calories. But to build muscle in order to lose weight is not the most efficient way. The weights are important
For defining the body, shaping it, making it stronger, etc. and if you just have a few pounds to lose this may get you to the body you're looking for quicker, but if you have lots of weight to lose the weight training alone will not do it. It's a good supplement, but not the answer in of itself.
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