Does it matter WHAT you eat?
 

For example, I know you can lose weight on a balanced plan with whole grains, fruit, vegetables, dairy, and protein but can you also also lose weight eating 1400 calories of cheeseburgers?

The reason I ask is because both of my parents lost their jobs recently and I'm prepared to have to eat more of the food that they buy instead of my "extra" food. I'm on Atkins right now but they eat a very carby diet and if it would help my parents financially then I would be willing to do whatever I need to do to continue losing weight. I could always stay on Atkins and live off of cheese, eggs, and meat but that doesn't sound like anything sustainable and I'd probably get burnt out/sick of it.

I would probably have to eat more white carbs and sugar than I'd like. I'd probably eat stuff like full-fat milk, cheese, and condiments...eggs, white bread, peanut butter, oatmeal, salad, and whatever my parents make for dinner (usually stuff like chili or steak or burgers).

As long as I counted calories eating not-so-healthy would I still be able to lose weight or does your body not like to let go of the weight unless you're eating nutritiously?

Going off of Atkins is a last resort if we find ourselves in a tight spot. My mom will do anything in her power to to keep me on my WOE of choice because she knows how happy and successful I am. I was just wondering in case I find myself in this situation. I've been asking her about food stamps but right now she's having a hard time accepting that we need to use them (my mom is a very proud person, I know there's nothing wrong with having to use food stamps).

For me, it makes a huge difference. If I eat high-carb, I'm starving all of the time, so hungry that it makes it nearly impossible to stay on plan.

However, there are a lot of great carb-conscious tips in the shoestring meals forum. I'd check there first.

Also there are some very good tips online and in books on frugal living. They aren't all Atkins friendly, but many of them are. With a little practice you can learn which meats, dairy, vegetables, fats, and less carby fruits are the cheapest.

Peanut butter, oatmeal, eggs, salads, full fat cheese and milk are part of a healthy diet. Counting the calories in them, and adding in whole grains and veggies when you can will keep you losing weight.

Seagirl, unfortunately they don't buy whole grains at all. All of the bread and pasta is white. I see a lot of people eating mostly low fat products, is it just because they're lower in calories so they can have more of them? The only vegetables they really eat are salad, corn, and green beans.

Like I said, it's probably not going to be an issue. My parents would sooner eat more low carb meals themselves than make me go off of my WOE. I just wanted to ask in case I'm ever in the position where I have to eat their food. Knowing that I can eat whatever just as long as I log the calories is comforting. They don't want to do a low carb plan and I have a 6 year old brother so we always have stuff like milk and peanut butter around.

When I was looking at other people's meal plans, I noticed that they ONLY eat low-fat and whole grains so I was thinking if I ate whole fat dairy and white grains I wouldn't be able to lose weight or something even if I tracked every calorie.

Yes, I think it's possible. ;) If you do go off Atkins, be prepared for an initial gain as you restore your glycogen supply. It's not fat, but you'll likely see a small gain.

What you're describing doesn't sound too awful bad, but the problem is that it is likely to trigger cravings. That's one of the reasons diets like that don't work. But if you're looking at calories instead of the Atkins program, yes, I think it's possible.

I personally do eat mostly complex carbs, but I don't eat low fat. I buy regular cheese and eat regular ice cream, I just do so extremely sparingly. I also eat real sugar. I know most people swear by low fat dairy, but I just do the real thing in moderation.

If you google "Twinkie Diet" you can read the story about a Kansas State nutrition professor who lost 27 pounds in two months on a diet that was two thirds junk food. His premise was that calories eaten mattered more than nutritional value.

For two months, I would agree. In the short-term calorie-restriction is all that is required for weight loss. If you cut calories enough, you'll lose weight (Even though I can eat 500 calories more on low-carb to lose the same amount of weight as on high-carb, I can also lose weight by cutting calories more drastically on a high carb diet. I just have to cut calories far more drastically, and I have to endure far worse hunger and worse flares of my pain, fatigue, and skin/autoimmune symptoms. But for weight loss - if I don't mind the other horrible stuff - all I need is the drastic calorie restriction).

The long-term problem is finding a sustainable plan - that is indeed, the tricky part. I wonder how long the nutrition professor would have been able to maintain the weight loss (and his health) on an indefinite version of his junk food diet.

I actually feel a low fat diet is a disaster diet. You have to get calories from somewhere and they are carbs, protein and fat. Carbs make me hungry, carbs cause me blood sugar issues, carbs (simple carbs) are just a quick fix for the body. Protein is good and needed, but too much of it is hard on the liver. We weren't meant to eat super heavy protein diets. Fat, is left and guess what? Fat is easier for the body to process and less harmful to the liver and other organs. Now, of course, fat is not all created equally, but nuts, vegetable oils, avocados, are great. And then carbs from beans, quinoa, vegetables are great, slow to breakdown carbs.

I eat what my family eats for dinner - I just eliminate the carb and eat more veggies. And frozen veggies are pretty cheap, so you can get those to replace the rice at dinner or the bread on cheeseburgers.

Yes, you can lose weight no matter what you eat if you cut calories - msmarigold's example is spot on. But don't confusing losing weight with getting healthier. I think that your health will suffer if you starting eating refined carbohydrates again and less fat/protein. If I were you I would try to introduce my parents to whole-grain products and a greater variety of vegetables.

This reminds me of an article I read of a teacher that wanted to do an experiment to show his students its not what you eat but how much. All he ate was 1200 calories of junk food Twinkies, cookies, ect..I cant remember how long he did this for but he lost 27lbs or something crazy like that. Not the healthiest but possible.

I try to get them to eat healthier but I haven't really succeeded, lol. Usually we just make mostly separate meals or we'll switch out ingredients...like lasagna, but she makes the sauce homemade with no sugar added tomato sauce and I have zucchini instead of noodles. This can get kinda costly though since she's making two lasagnas and a lot of the time we don't even finish all of either of them.

I wonder if it would work to make 1/2 of the lasagna with noodles and 1/2 with zucchini...that way everyone wins. Hm, that gave me an idea.

Anyway, I love eating lots of vegetables and protein and healthy fat and I wouldn't be very happy if I had to be fighting cravings and eating simple carbs again. It was just a "just in case" question I was curious about.

Technically, you will lose weight as long as you cut your caloric intake below the amount of calories you burn. That's why the "twinkie diet" worked for that guy.

I calorie-count and I've definitely noticed a qualitative difference in my plan even though there's been no quantitative difference since Christmas dinner (1500 calories every day). You may have trouble with cravings or hunger if you're just eating smaller portions of super-high-carb stuff that you digest quickly.

As for full-fat cheese and milk and such, I am a HUGE fan of small portions of the real thing over big portions of these dairy products with the fat removed. The flavor is in the fat, and you may find (as I have) that half an ounce of real honest-to-goodness sharp cheddar sates you far more than two ounces of non-fat processed cheese product. Milk and peanut butter are good for you--you just eat them in moderation and alongside other stuff that provides the bulk that these calorie-dense foods don't. :)

For family meals, maybe you can focus on foods that require a little more individual assembly--homemade pizzas, for instance, or tacos/fajitas that get put together at the table. That way you could have yours with lots of vegetables and little cheese while others were going heavier on the denser stuff. The lasagna you're describing could definitely be lightened up with 1/2 zucchini; another thing that could work is leaving the topmost sprinkling of cheese off of your portion as it bakes. The steak and burgers you describe are good choices, too, depending on your portions and on your condiments.

Not every household is going to swap over to 100% whole grains. We still have some "white stuff" in our household too because my husband likes it. I eat it occasionally, but I just change up proportions--eating an open-faced sandwich with one slice of bread and plenty of extra greenery, for instance, or eating half a cup of rice with my red beans instead of the two cups or so I used to snarf down.

Best of luck to you and your folks; being out of work is tough. Here's hoping they find something even better in their work futures soon.

I'm a bit in a similar situation (parent out of work), but I don't follow Atkins. I haven't been able to buy everything for salads or fish weekly like I used to. I've been filling up on higher fiber carbs like oatmeal and beans (in chili and soups).

I say this alot... but coupons help alot, even just the printable ones you find online and find a store that doubles and buy things when they are on sale.. I've been able to get free or very cheap canned tomatoes, beans, greek yogurts, canned soups, whole wheat pastas. Just to throw in, there are some good healthier pastas out... Barilla Smart Taste, Rozoni Smart Taste and Garden Delight pastas are fortified with extras, fiber, protein, etc and don't taste 'whole wheaty' at all... That's just in case if you do have to go off Atkins you don't have to go completely to the white pasta.

That said...people said you might have to deal with cravings, but I tell ya instead of craving junk food, there are actually times now I crave a salad or a piece of salmon with some veggies!

I know I'm arguing a technicality, but I have to point out that this isn't always true. Calorie-wise and amount of weight lost-wise it can make a difference where the calories come from.

"A calorie is a calorie," isn't always true for everyone. While it is true that to lose weight you have to take in fewer calories than you burn, many people find that "all calories are not created equal." The type of calories (at least for some people) can influence the "burn" part of the equation. If you compare metabolism to a furnace, the type of fuel you use can affect the efficiency of the furnace. Not all fuels burn at the same rate.

For most of my life, I would have argued that 1500 calories of anything (junk, low-fat, high-carb, low-carb) would yeild the exact same weight loss. I only learned otherwise by accident - and then proved it with a careful experiment (repeated a few times, because I didn't believe it).

Initially, when I noticed that I lost weight more rapidly and more consistently on low-carb, I assumed that I lost more on low-carb than higher-carb just because I was less hungry and therefore eating fewer calories (and that would have been reason enough to stick with low-carb), but with meticulous food journaling, I discovered that I do not lose equally well on 1500 of low-carb as on 1500 of high-carb (which is what I would have predicted).

Instead I found that there's at least a 300 - 500 calorie discrepancy. To lose equally well on low-carb, I have to cut calories more than I have to on low-cal. 1600 - 1800 calories of low-carb yields about the same weight loss as 1200-1500 calories of low-carb.

That doesn't mean you can't lose weight on any type of food, but it does mean that "a calorie is a calorie" is an oversimplification (at least for some of us). To lose the same amount of weight, you may have to cut calories more drastically on one food plan, than you would on another.


It's worth experimenting though, because if a certain WOE allows you to burn more calories than another, it makes sense to choose the one that gives you an advantage. If 1200 calories of high-carb yields the same wieght loss as 1500-1800 calories of low-carb, why wouldn't you choose the low-carb (especially if it also controls hunger better). For me, it's a no-brainer. Low-carb wins, because I can eat more and lose more.

I don't know that everyone experiences this. It seemed to me that when I was younger, the difference wasn't so pronounced (I assumed that I burned about equally on 1500 calories, no matter where those 1500 came from, and I don't remember receiving any evidence to the contrary), but I never gave low-carb diets much of a chance (always thinking them unhealthy).

If I had wanted to stick to a 1200 calorie high-carb diet, I could have. I still would have lost weight (though I'd be hungrier). So in that way, you can lose weight on any style of eating, even if yo do burn calories better on on some plans. No matter how you want to eat, you can keep cutting calories until you begin losing, but if you lose better on one WOE than another, experimenting to find that WOE is a good thing.

You can eat what your parents are eating...just much much smaller portions. You will lose...bottom line...calories in vs. calories out. No science has ever been able to dispute this fact.

Just remember, the more "calorie dense" high fat foods you eat...the smaller your portions must be in order to maintain your calorie deficit.

You can definitely make it work. Just try not to eat twinkies and cheeseburgers all day...your hair and teeth will fall out and you will get sick and eventually die. We need nutrients to survive...so do the best you can at fitting these types of food into your diet...even supplementing with a good multivitamin! All the best!:D

You have been given some great advice here already. I don't have anything to add to that but was wondering how old you are and if you could get a job to help out? Possibly you could buy some of your own food?

Also, I think that it is great that your parents are so supportive! We have so many posts where our loved ones sabotage us instead of supporting us. It is also great that you are willing to work with them on this!

For me, a calorie is a calorie. I've had a few times where I eat mostly junk (but within my calorie range), and I still lose weight. However, long term, I don't think I'd be able to lose weight if I had to eat miniscule portions of high calorie foods, just psychologically it would be too difficult for me.

Protein is more difficult for your body to digest so your TEF is going to be higher but 300-500 higher on low intake? This is a 20-30% difference. If true you're indeed unique.

I'm 19 and working on getting a job but I live in an area with literally no jobs. Since my parents are out of work I think they want to move to an area that isn't so bad. Either way I'll probably be moving to Pennsylvania in fall to go to school.

I agree, my parents are amazing! My mom had WLS surgery years ago and got down to below 200 I believe but gained a lot of it back. Now she gets sick when she eats ANYTHING and hardly ever eats. I'm worried for her but I don't push the "diet" thing on her because I think it upsets her that she can hardly eat anything without dumping even years after her surgery. She also doesn't lose weight. I think she really wants me to be happy and thin and healthy because she knows how hard it is to be overweight.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I would try to eat as healthy as I could within the calorie range that worked best. I think the twinkie diet and diets like that are extremely unhealthy.

I don't know how unique I am, because experiences much like mine (and even more extreme) are quite common on low-carb and insulin resistance forums just on this website (and even more so on other low-carb and autoimmune forums).

I'm not aware of any research that has done controlled studies of the metabolic differences (closed system research of weight loss is so rare, no doubt because of the inconvenience and expense. With self-report studies you're always dealing with the uncertainty of subjects'accuracy in self-reportingtheir caloric intake).

In my own experiments, I paid closest attention to the calories-in portion of the equation, but not the calories out, but I did notice some interesting differences that were notable regarding the "calories out" part of the equation (but these observations were subjective. I'm confident in the trend, but I don't know the degree of the difference).

On low-carb:

I sleep less, but feel more rested (there routinely was at least an hour difference).

I have more energy, and am I'm sure, as a result are more active.

My body temperature significantly increases (my "normal" body temperature is quite low. Under 97 isn't uncommon, though average is low 97's. On sustained low-carb, my average body temperature was much closer to normal often over 98.0)

I have fewer flares of my arthritis, fibromyalgia, lung/sinus issues, and skin issues (which also as a result are likely to improve my functioning, and therefore my activity level). When I feel great, I do tend to push myself to do as much as I can, just to take advantage of the opportunity (I'm on disability and as a result of pain and mobility issues, I am often forced to be more sedentary than is conducive to sanity).


I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease attacking my sinuses, lungs, nasal cartilage, joints, and skin. Since reducing carbs, I've gone into (suspected) remission. Of course the steroid(prednisone) treatments could have caused the remission. I suspect diet playing a large role, because when I have relapsed into a high-carb diet (for example this past and last Christmas), I have reoccurences of the skin and respiratory issues.


Though my belief isn't based on fact, because there just hasn't been enough research to prove whether I am unusual or the norm, I do believe that I fall on the extreme end of the spectrum, but I don't think I am at all unusual. I've heard too many stories similar to mine. It was actually the autoimmune research with low-grain and low-carb diets that persuaded me to try low-carb eating. The more reading I did on the subject, the more I'm convinced that there are far greater differences in carbohydrate/gain metabolism than is commonly thought. How many people are affected, and to what degree, I don't think the research to this point can say.

We need more closed-system research (where calorie intake and calorie expenditure can be accurately monitored), but closed-system research is expensive and inconvenient. The research subject pool is also limited, and not representative. The "average" person isn't going to be able or willing to take off work, and leave their families and lives for several months to live in a lab-setting.

I only skimmed the thread, but just wanted to say that for me WHAT I eat is critical. Yes I can lose weight eating junk, but I can eat so much more AND lose weight if I eat clean, whole, non-processed foods. It goes the same for maintaining. Just for any example, to lose I can eat 1600-1800 of average food OR I can eat as much as 1800-2200 of clean food. Same goes for maintenance, I can eat significantly more if my food is clean.

But yes, you *can* lose and pretty much whatever is availble, but you'll need to watch your portions obviously.

Unfortunately there are no well designed studies that are also ward (closed system) studies.

You make a good point regarding insulin sensativity I had not considered ... the output part of the equation could be effected by insulin resistance causing lethargy and affecting sleep. It's still a gigantic difference but you certainly seem methodical so I don't doubt it to be true.

Speaking of your case I'm assuming you're also gluten intollerant but you must have already assumed that as well.

For me, I'll lose on both 1300 calories of chicken, broccoli and rice or just cheesecake. Health, energy, vitality, fullness, well, I have to go with the first choice

Yes, I do strongly suspect that I am gluten intolerant. I'm definitely wheat-intolerant, but I haven't experimented with non-wheat gluten grains enough to declare with certainty that gluten is the issue, though it's safest to assume so. I've thought of experimenting, but rye is rarely unaccompanied by wheat, and I've never eaten enough barley to go out of my way to eat it.

I haven't had scratch-test allergy testing, because of a possible specific drug interaction (one of my necessary medications counteracts the effectiveness of drugs that could be life-saving if I had a severe allergic reaction). I might be able to switch medications so I can be tested, but I haven't been motivated to pursue it.

My reaction to wheat is so extreme, that my husband can tell if I've had wheat by my complexion (sometimes within hours, usually within 24 hours).


I did test negative for celiac disease (though I've read that most of the tests are notoriously inaccurate if you're wheat-free at the time of the test. My doctor assured me that my test was a newer type that would be sensitive enough to determine celiac disease even if my diet was wheat-free. I even ate a few servings of wheat during the week before the test in case as an added precaution).

When I first noticed that I felt so much better on low-carb, I started experimenting with different types of carbs to determine whether it was specific carbs, or carbs in general that I needed to avoid.

I discovered that I have the most and severest problems with wheat, but that grains and sugars are problematic to a lesser degree.

Even natural sugars and whole grains can trigger noticeable reactions, but they're far milder and it takes a lot more to see reactions. On a whole food diet, to have troublesome symptoms, my diet has to be extremely carb and grain heavy for a more extended period of time.

High protein grains seem to be least problematic (I haven't had to strictly limit quinoa for example, though I can easily overeat quinoa to stall weight loss, I haven't found any amount of quinoa to trigger complexion issues).

Have you thought about trying to change what the rest of your family eats? Weight is one thing, but there are a lot healthier options that your family could eat. I don't live at home anymore, but when my mom came to visit me last summer I told her how I quit white bread and moved on to whole wheat and grain everything (bread, noodles, ect). I coerced her into buying the white wheat bread stuff (I'm not a fan really but it helps people just starting out) and now that she's bad home she's eating more whole grains. If you end up having to eat with the rest of your family, try to sneak in healthier things! Maybe they won't notice ;)

I was actually surprised tonight...I went to make dinner for me and my family (sausage egg scramble for me, sausage gravy and biscuits for them) and when I went to put the flour into the sausage for the gravy I noticed it had brown flakes in it...I asked my grandma if it was flour and she was like "yeah, it's whole wheat." I was confused because since when has my family ever bought whole wheat flour? LOL. Maybe it was an accident or something.

I'd like to change my family's eating habits but I stopped pushing after bringing it up a couple of times. My mom liked the suggestion that the whole family go on South Beach which would still allow me to eat pretty low carb and cook for the whole family. I might talk to her about that again.

South Beach is a great plan. I'm a little skeptical of Atkins with respect to the cost & ridiculous animal product use -- I'm not a vegetarian now/anymore, but still a little skeptical of the diet that animals are a "healthy" food source. And so much more expensive than a balance of meat/fish, nuts, & plant oils.

I personally have only tried low-carb to a significant amount for a few days and went absolutely carb-binge-crazy right afterwards. Not going there for at least a while, but maybe the next time I plateau I'll use it jolt my system again. I don't find that what I eat matters, but I do find that cravings are impossible to deal with if I'm eating high glycemic index foods (including both fruit and your typical white-bread-and-cake-spectrum things).

I think that's the typical experience for most people -- carbs are fine if you eat the right ones, and they don't have to be expensive. I like your SBD idea a lot, but even if you end up switching to a low-fat / calorie-counting-only diet, you can definitely do it as long as you stay away from whatever the "trigger" foods turn out to be for you. Good luck and congrats on all your progress so far!

I read your posts and I need a little clarification. When you talked about Aitkins being expensive was that because you were eating some of the bars, shakes and specialty foods?

I'm technically on the Belly Fat Cure which has a higher amount of allowed carb grams than Aitkins. However the longer I've been on this plan the more I've had to restrict my intake of carbs to maintain some weightloss. I had a plateau that lasted 6-7 weeks without any loss. What I've observed is that when I up my carb level I become snarky and preoccupied with food and I feel hungry or at least unsatisfied most of the time. I'm apt to overeat when I'm tempted. I can avoid this by eating things like scrambled eggs, cheese or meats. I do buy what's on sale. I've been eating a lot of cauliflower the past two weeks with some dill dip (mayo and sour cream) Because they were cheap. I also buy the steam bags of vegetables when they are on sale for $1.00 and store them in the freezer same with cheeses. (I don't eat any simple carbs or sugar that don't come from foods like cottage cheese or vegetables) Anyway I don't think my plan is very expensive as I don't buy any specialty foods.

I would call my plan fairly high fat which is the opposit of the low fat craze of the 1990's where I believed that low fat-high carb was good. I think all my kids have weight problems now due to what I fed them growing up.

I can totally relate to where your mom is at. Give both of your parents a big hug for supporting you it's a wonderful thing. I can totally relate to where your mom is at. I too had gastric bypass surgery about 27 years ago. My diet was very effected as well. I had trouble with meats and raw fruit and vegetables. I lost 120 LBS and by April 2009 had gained all but 10 LBS back. (The last 20LBS came on fast due to an extended period on steroids.) Well it seems odd that now I am on a plan where almost every thing I eat is meat and raw vegetables. Further more I seldom overeat to the point where I throw up. I no longer have gastric reflux. That went away shortly after I cut out the carbs. I seem to digest the meats and veggies now although slowy.

Specific idea for the lasagna. See if she'll make lasagna rolls instead of lasagna casserole. Same recipe; just take the pasta, spread the filling on it, then roll it up and place it in the casserole. You can do the same thing for you only using cabbage leaves. Place it in the same casserole dish. Then top with sauce and cheese and bake. Each roll is a serving, and you can do both lower- and higher-carb in the same meal/dish.

I don't really eat a lot of bread or grains myself (even whole-wheat bread is a treat food, not part of my daily diet), but my kids do eat sandwiches and so on. So, if your family is going to continue to eat bread, here's a cost-saving tip: Learn how to make your own. A loaf of high-quality whole-wheat bread can easily cost $3 to $4 around here, but one bag of white whole-wheat flour costs me just a couple of bucks and makes many loaves of bread.

Same goes for many other baked goods. Homemade cookies, muffins, quick breads, brownies etc. are all much cheaper than store-bought. Plus, at least marginally more healthy for you (and do-able on South Beach if you're using Splenda or another sweetener in your baking instead of sugar).

I didnt read all the posts, but i HIGHLY recommend watching the movie fathead. Its on instant watch on netflix, and he proves that you can pretty much eat anything, as long as its under your calorie limit. very Very eye opening.

I completely agree with those who say eat higher fat. There is a great book (forgive me if it was already mentioned as I didn't read all of the posts) called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" that speaks to exactly this. It's a bit of a lengthy read, but packed full of information.

I eat moderate fat, moderate protein, moderate fruits/veggies, and low processed carbs. That means that I eat very tasty food, feel satisfied, and don't crash. Can't beat that!

Also, for what it's worth, I got the whole household eating this way and my daughter (who was probably about 10 pounds overweight - nothing AT ALL serious) lost 6 pounds in six months and has slimmed up. And, as far as the family is concerned, we're just eating yummy food. (Don't worry, I never had concern for my daughter I just know about the loss from her doctor's visits...)

I tell you - adding that fat back into your life will make a world of difference but you need to let go of the overly processed stuff when you do.

One other thing we just added (thanks to Oprah) was one day where we don't have meat. We're enjoying it so much, we are thinking about increasing it to twice a week. Not sure that has anything to do with your question, just sharing.

If you find "Good Calories/Bad Calories" too dry and scientific (and it is a pretty dense read!), you might look for "Why We Get Fat", a new book by the same author (Gary Taubes) covering similar ground in a much more reader-friendly way.