The day I fell off the wagon...
 

Ok, I didn't really fall off the wagon, I just decided to ride in a different car for the day. Yesterday, it was "the bad day of the time of the month". I don't know how it is for everyone, but day two usually is very heavy and hurts. I worked for five hours, medicated by Midol, and came home absolutely starving with this huge craving for General Tso's chicken.

So, I suggested to my husband that we go to the Chinese Buffet as that is the one place our whole family can agree on. I knew it was a bad idea but I gave myself the ok not to count calories for the rest of the day. This was only the second time in the last 4+ months that I have allowed that. I ate WAY too much, my stomach ached for hours. Several hours later I indulged in an overabundance of ice cream. So much so, that I really didn't even want to finish it. Not sure why I did.

The point of this story is that I just reminded myself that I don't enjoy eating like that. It used to be a regular thing, eating until I was so full it hurt. Every meal almost. The scale was up about 1/2 pound today but I am not panicking.

I am a lurker mostly. I read posts over and over from woman who feel so bad that they have "cheated" on their diets and feel like all is now lost. The responses that they get range from "don't worry about it, just get back on the horse" to "you can never do that again, or you are doomed to fail (said in a nicer fashion of course)" I have no intention of eating like that today, tomorrow or any day in the close future. I don't even want to. But I think once and awhile, overindulging can be good for us. A nice reminder maybe of what we don't want anymore.

I think that as I was eating yesterday, I could almost hear some of the voices from here scolding me. How letting myself do this was setting me up for failure. I think that not allowing yourself a little indulgence once and awhile is just as extreme as eating like a pig everyday like I used to.
Does anyone get what I am saying? What do you think on the matter?

Originally Posted by :
I think that not allowing yourself a little indulgence once and awhile is just as extreme as eating like a pig everyday like I used to.

Hmmm. I get that to eat *like a pig* (your words) it is not the end of ones journey or a tragedy or a crime, yada, yada.. And when ever I do over eat, I am soooo disappointed and feel horrible - it's NOT enjoyable and I can't wait to get back to be healthy way of eating. I am once again reminded of just how wonderful and not burdensome it IS to eat well.

But to eat well all the time, to never stuff yourself to the point of being sick - to think of that as extreme - no. I can't agree with that. I don't see how that is extreme. Just as I don't think it is extreme to brush your teeth every day, make the bed, keep track of your money, get to work on time, etc.

To have an indulgence once in a while is a whole other matter. I don't think I know of any one who has never had an indulgence every now and then - would I think of it as extreme? No, because I don't think it's humanly possible.

But I don't look at stuffing ones self to the point of being sick as *an indulgence*. Lord knows I've done that many times over the past few years and that was no *indulgence*. It was an OVER indulgence.

Originally Posted by BecomingMaggie:
I think that as I was eating yesterday, I could almost hear some of the voices from here scolding me. How letting myself do this was setting me up for failure. I think that not allowing yourself a little indulgence once and awhile is just as extreme as eating like a pig everyday like I used to.
Does anyone get what I am saying? What do you think on the matter?

I think you are looking at it from a "good/bad" perspective, which is how most of us were trained to look at weight (thanks, mom!). But weight isn't a function of your WORTH, your GOODNESS, your QUALITY. It's a choice, like choosing what style of clothing you wear. Eating doesn't mean a person is "bad" and not eating doesn't mean a person is "good".

That said, every time we eat we are making a choice about our weight. It isn't an all-or-nothing thing, but every choice matters. For the sort of indulgences you are talking about, it does have a real effect: I don't know how much you ate, but "free eating" at a buffet + more ice cream than I could even enjoy would easily be 3000 calories for me. That's 100 extra calories on my daily average. That may well be worth it, but you have to own the choice. It's like, let's say I decide I just have to have a $200 suit that I really don't have the money for, so I put it on my credit card. If I can say "I know that means I will end up paying $300 for it in the end and I'll have to stop having my daily cup of coffee to make those payments, but it's worth it", then that's fine. It may seem like a weird choice to someone else, but at least I am making it with my eyes open. If, instead, I say "Ah, well, I'll pay it off eventually, the payments won't be too much" but I refuse to let myself acknowledge the real cost, or to accept the other changes I'll have to make to pay for it, that's willful ignorance and a poor place to make decisions from.

For me, for the last year, I was really focused on speed because 1) I want to have a baby 2) I have to use IVF and only get one shot 3) I am a teacher and a June due date would save me a lot of headaches/money. So I needed to be as close to a healthy weight as possible in September. So speed was a priority. So for me, an extra 100 calories a day to my daily average would have been a poor choice.

But if all goes well and I am losing baby weight in a year, I will make different choices. Speed won't be nearly as important as quality of life. So I will strive for a 500 calorie/day deficit on average, which means that I can have the occasional big meal. Different circumstances, different choices.

What some people have found is that some things are triggers, and that triggers lead to spirals of emotional, irrational choices. For triggers, it can make your life easier to cut them out completely. Once they are gone, you don't have to keep thinking about them. Analogously, I learned in college that as long as I always went to class, I never even thought about it--it was just routine. But once I skipped one class and nothing terrible happened, then I had to fight the temptation to skip every single time after that, and many times I'd end up skipping. My GPA jumped a full point when I started just going to every single class no matter what, and my stress level went way down because I wasn't arguing with myself all the time.

For some people, if they did what you did, they'd eat off plan for 5-6 days after, running their daily average up 400-500 calories for the month. If someone you knew did that three or four months in a row, and then was like "But I think that small indulgence is reasonable, I deserve it, next time I will get right back on plan", you might well think they were deluding themselves and making a poor choice if weight loss is really their goal. That's where a lot of people who recommend "no indulgences" are coming from.

It's also true that most people are stronger than they think they are. Women, especially, often underestimate their own strength, and so don't try. I've known people who thought they couldn't go a day without a candy bar, or that they were too disorganized to count calories or whatever. I don't mind if someone doesn't feel like a method will work for them, but I hate it when it comes from a lack of confidence and faith in their own strength. People are pretty tough.

Originally Posted by BecomingMaggie:
I ate WAY too much, my stomach ached for hours. Several hours later I indulged in an overabundance of ice cream. So much so, that I really didn't even want to finish it. Not sure why I did.

The point of this story is that I just reminded myself that I don't enjoy eating like that. It used to be a regular thing, eating until I was so full it hurt. Every meal almost. The scale was up about 1/2 pound today but I am not panicking....


I think that as I was eating yesterday, I could almost hear some of the voices from here scolding me. How letting myself do this was setting me up for failure. I think that not allowing yourself a little indulgence once and awhile is just as extreme as eating like a pig everyday like I used to.
Does anyone get what I am saying? What do you think on the matter?

I'm probably one of those voices who you could hear scolding you...but hey, I'm usually confused with these kind of posts. First you say you ate so much you felt ill for hours. (Oh joy, how fun). Then you say that not allowing yourself these "little indulgences" is just as extreme as pig eating....

Hummmm. Well, eating until you are sick for hours is not a "little indulgence". It's not. It's a slip back into your old binge eating ways. I'm just saying that the behavior is still there, and since it's there you need to be very cautious. A piece of cake is a "little indulgence" A cookie or two is a "little indulgence". A candy bar OR a small dish of ice cream are "little indulgences"...Not eating until you are ill for hours.

I had a friend in AA and they taught her to watch out for when she was H A L T (Hungry Angry Lonely Tired). I have also found that becoming one or more of these things can lead to food choices that I consider bad for myself.

I don't have any judgment about what you did, but I do think keeping onesself from getting too hungry helps to make healthier decisions if that is important to you.

I, like you, had an eating episode the week before last. I ate too much crap and paid for it the next day with an AWFUL stomach ache and I felt nauseous all day. It says a lot about how you view your lifestyle change that you're able to pick yourself up and move on, you should be proud of that.

That being said, for me I don't think it's healthy to eat until I'm sick. I don't want to do it EVER again. Not as a treat, not as a reminder of anything. I want my body to feel good ALLLL of the time. If I want unhealthy food, then I'll have a reasonable portion that leaves me feeling satisfied. But, making a decision based on emotion (or hormones) is not a habit I want to create. I don't want to give myself permission to blow it, or not count calories, for the rest of the day (bad news for me). I don't want to give myself permission to over eat because I'm crampy, or because I had a rough day in classes, or for any reason. I want to give myself permission to indulge when it's a birthday, when my husband and I have ridden 10 miles on our bikes down to a cafe, or going to starbucks with my best friend the day before she moves 2000 miles away.

Sorry if my thoughts are a little jumbled, but basically my point is that occasional indulgences or treats on special occasions are fine, but for me eating to the point where I'm sick is NOT, regardless of the circumstances.

Please, don't get me wrong if I didn't word that the way that I should have. I am not happy that my stomach now hurts. It didn't feel good while I did it, and it doesn't feel good now. What I meant by my post is that, once and a while, it has to be ok to not be on a diet. I don't consider a cookie once and a while an "indulgence". I work those in to my calories for the day. I am talking about a once and a great while opportunity to not have to weigh my food. Not have to feel guilty over eating too much ice cream. Not to have to beat myself up about a slip up. My day yesterday was not permission to do this forever but just for that one day. And the feeling that I feel now, is the reminder of how much I don't want to be back to what I was before. I understand, that for some people, that could trigger many days or years, off the wagon. For me it was this one day.

I sometimes feel that I hesitate to post what I am thinking before I am fairly sensitive to the opinions of others. I do understand how losing a bunch of weight makes you sometimes feel like an expert about how to do it and do it well. I find myself making mental judgments of those around me who claim they want to lose but can't and then go grab lunch at Wendys. I don't say it out loud because I know that I have no right to judge anyone. I have been there, done that, tried that a hundred times at least. I do appreciate the knowledge base that some of you come from. You have made it work for the long haul. I hope some day to be just like you.

Maggie, I think understand where you're coming from. You overate and went off plan, but it encouraged you to see that you have progressed to the point that you don't want to live overeating as a way of life. Sure, you'd like to have the very occasional day where you take a break from strict weighing of food and calorie counting. But overall your new diet has become a way of life, and even though you overate, you truly see definitively that it isn't what you want for yourself anymore.

Am I even somewhat in the ballpark of what you were saying? If so, I'm so glad for you that a lifetime of overeating no longer appeals to you! You have come so far in just a few months and I wish you much success on your continued journey!

Originally Posted by BecomingMaggie:
The point of this story is that I just reminded myself that I don't enjoy eating like that. It used to be a regular thing, eating until I was so full it hurt. Every meal almost. The scale was up about 1/2 pound today but I am not panicking.

It sounds like yesterday was a good thing - sometimes, we need these reminders. I know some people will do without these instances for the rest of their lives (possibly because they come from an OA/binging background), and that is right for them, but for some people, we need a little reminder every now and then.

I take the same perspective as you ~ a little bellyache once in a while after too much restaurant food (since it was Chinese, I'm guessing both quantity and an overdose of sodium contributed!) will do the body bad - but do the mind good. It reminds us. Some of us get so on track in our plans that we forget where we came from.

Glad you are feeling positive today! For every time you feel you may be scolded, remember that there are also some of us here who would cheer you on for recognizing why you do what you do! :carrot:

Yep, that was pretty much what I was saying. Thanks for understanding :)

Originally Posted by BecomingMaggie:
I am talking about a once and a great while opportunity to not have to weigh my food. Not have to feel guilty over eating too much ice cream.

There exists a middle ground between "eating yourself sick" and "weighing every gram and feeling guilty about going over at all". That middle ground is what I am struggling to find, but I think it's something like this:

I don't want to "diet" on my birthday, on Thanksgiving, on Christmas. But "not dieting" doesn't mean "eating mindlessly". I can have mashed potatoes and stuffing on Thanksgiving, but I'll need to stop and think about the point where the enjoyment of them fades--I need stop at one scoop instead of two, because honestly, I don't enjoy that second scoop nearly as much. Once in a while, I don't have to deny myself things I really want, but I do have to keep my brain alive and make sure I am only eating things I really want, not just eating things because they are there and look good that second.

My "lifestyle change" isn't giving up any particular food, but it is giving up mindless eating. That's over and gone, no special occasions, no exceptions. I compare it to my husband: he's crippled. He never gets to mindlessly walk, he has to think, just a second, about every step he takes. It isn't fair, it isn't just, he doesn't deserve it, but them's the breaks. And he doesn't complain, because in the end he can still go wherever he wants--he just has to think about it. In the same way, I can eat what I want. I just can't eat mindlessly.

I will totally agree that I overdid it. Even with the thinking that i wasn't counting for the day. I think what was strange about it is that I had no idea how little that I had to eat to have "overdone" it to the point of hurting. I used to be able to stuff down all of that and then some. Eating healthy for the last several months, with only a day or two that I ever went above 2000 calories, has made one of my "normal" old days incredibly painful.

I just wanted to thank the original poster and all of the responding posters, lots of good stuff here, very helpful to me, as I am currently in the middle of all the roiling emotion of this process, ups and downs, triggers, long lasting binge aftermath, and struggling to stay the course and keep going, so reading these things helps. So, just a big thank you here. :)

And congrats to all of you on your weight loss and successes!

Originally Posted by Shmead:
There exists a middle ground between "eating yourself sick" and "weighing every gram and feeling guilty about going over at all". That middle ground is what I am struggling to find, but I think it's something like this:

I don't want to "diet" on my birthday, on Thanksgiving, on Christmas. But "not dieting" doesn't mean "eating mindlessly". I can have mashed potatoes and stuffing on Thanksgiving, but I'll need to stop and think about the point where the enjoyment of them fades--I need stop at one scoop instead of two, because honestly, I don't enjoy that second scoop nearly as much. Once in a while, I don't have to deny myself things I really want, but I do have to keep my brain alive and make sure I am only eating things I really want, not just eating things because they are there and look good that second.

My "lifestyle change" isn't giving up any particular food, but it is giving up mindless eating. That's over and gone, no special occasions, no exceptions. I compare it to my husband: he's crippled. He never gets to mindlessly walk, he has to think, just a second, about every step he takes. It isn't fair, it isn't just, he doesn't deserve it, but them's the breaks. And he doesn't complain, because in the end he can still go wherever he wants--he just has to think about it. In the same way, I can eat what I want. I just can't eat mindlessly.

I love how you worded this, it's exactly what I feel I'm working towards. I feel like I suffered from the "on diet" and "off diet" mentality, when I joined WW or Jenny Craig, I was On Diet, when I quit, I was Off Diet -- and I'd go back to eating mindlessly in mindless amounts. Even foods I didn't enjoy that much. (Plus eating emotionally, which is an added element.) But the foods I often ate doing those diets I didn't always particularly enjoy -- which made me crave and binge more once I was Off Diet. Crazy. :dizzy:

so I don't see it as always being on a diet so much as always trying to be mindful, that what I'm eating is healthful and tasty, what I really want and in amounts that fill but don't over fill me. I don't want on/off anymore. I want healthy management.

I have to admit, there have been many times when I've appreciated the little voices 3FC has put in my ear when the bratty kid eater in me rears her spoiled head.

It is a struggle. It is hard. I am trying so hard to learn how not to give into the kind of day you had. I am getting better at it. And I think the key is to learn from those times. But really the key is to learn how to check that "oh what the hey" feeling. It's a big thing to learn how to deal with, but people do learn how to do it, so I believe I can too.

Well, you ate it, and that's the end of it! Now you move on. Probably you did learn that it's not as fun as it used to be. And hopefully, you won't be "triggered" into wanting to eat more.

As for what I think about it, two words: Everything counts.

It counts whether you count it, weigh it, measure it, and calculate the calories--or not. It counts whether it's a dish of ice cream or a tub. Your body doesn't care whether you think you deserve it, whether you're having a hard day, whether it's Thanksgiving, etc. It just does what it does best! If you eat more than you burn, the excess gets stored as fat for later. Voila!

I eat what I want, but I pay attention. I know that some foods aren't worth it, even if I like them a lot, because it leads to my wanting to eat more of them, and more, and... So, those foods are under heavy restriction.

Today I went for a mile walk at the mall. My friend wanted to stop and get frozen yogurt at this "by the ounce" place at the food court. This was perfect for me. My fat-free frozen yogurt with some strawberries, a spoon of chopped peanuts, and a drizzle of caramel topping came to 150 calories. Tasted great. It was all I needed to be satisfied. And, it was limited! I didn't have a whole carton of the stuff sitting in my freezer.

After awhile, you learn how to judge these things. You don't have to be exact to know when you're within bounds.

Even when I indulge, I pay attention. :)

Jay

Originally Posted by JayEll:

As for what I think about it, two words: Everything counts.

Yup, our bodies keep an accurate journal, whether or not we do.

Originally Posted by :
My fat-free frozen yogurt with some strawberries, a spoon of chopped peanuts, and a drizzle of caramel topping came to 150 calories. Tasted great. It was all I needed to be satisfied. And, it was limited! I didn't have a whole carton of the stuff sitting in my freezer.

This is a very big key for me. When I decide to have a so-called indulgence, I need to do so in a VERY controlled setting. I've had similar indulgences such as this one. Had there been more in the cup, I would have eaten it. There would be no leaving it over. Had there been a tub of it in my home, I'd be going back for seconds (or thirds, fourths and fifths ;)). But by having it in a pre-determined portion, I'm safe - and satisfied. To me, this is setting myself up for success and an *intelligent* way to have a splurge. I don't have to *worry* about putting the brakes on, the brakes are built in.

A Chinese food buffet - no way in double hockey sticks would you ever catch me at one of these places. Why throw needless temptation in my face? Needless temptation of a very big magnitude.

Originally Posted by rockinrobin:
Yup, our bodies keep an accurate journal, whether or not we do.

I think I want to print this out & plaster that on my fridge...

I think it's totally okay to allow yourself indulgences here and there. Especially if you've been doing good for a long time. It can even help your weight loss believe it or not. Our bodies get complacent after a while when they are in a routine and your weight loss will halt. Doctors suggest taking a weekend off and splurging on things you really love and enjoy and not to worry about calories. This shocks your body and gets you going again.

Most of the time if I have an off day and I eat a whole bunch I usually feel gross and I'm like why did I do that. It's really not worth it. Now if I were to have a piece cake or a cookie or a burger (and not overeat) it wouldn't be as bad. The reason I eat better is so I can feel good about myself and treat myself to the little indulgences every now and then.

The only thing I can say is ..I hear ya, I feel ya and I support ya. There is only one person you have to answer to at the end of the day.. keep looking forward

I don't have an opinion about this either way but Maggie i am glad that you posted because it has helped me to identify an action that I could not describe to others that don't understand this battle of losing weight.

That is the term for binge vs. indulgence.
Mentally i knew the meaning of the words but emotionally it helps me to see the difference. I have been a member of the "clean your plate" club for as far back as I could remember on top of being in the "2nd helping" club. Eating until it hurts. I never realized it before but that was bingeing! I just thought it was eating until your full but there were many times when I'd eat past full all for the sake of habitually being a part of the "clean your plate" club (anyone remember their mom's telling them to clean their plate? lol).

I once read a book talking about eating until you were satisfied then stopping and I applied that technique back then but this is a very interesting topic and a revelation for me to know the actual difference between full and bingeing. Thanks for bringing this to light :) That's my two cents now I'll go back into lurkdom lol.

Originally Posted by dragonwoman64:
I love how you worded this, it's exactly what I feel I'm working towards. I feel like I suffered from the "on diet" and "off diet" mentality, when I joined WW or Jenny Craig, I was On Diet, when I quit, I was Off Diet -- and I'd go back to eating mindlessly in mindless amounts. Even foods I didn't enjoy that much. (Plus eating emotionally, which is an added element.) But the foods I often ate doing those diets I didn't always particularly enjoy -- which made me crave and binge more once I was Off Diet. Crazy. :dizzy:

so I don't see it as always being on a diet so much as always trying to be mindful, that what I'm eating is healthful and tasty, what I really want and in amounts that fill but don't over fill me. I don't want on/off anymore. I want healthy management.

I have to admit, there have been many times when I've appreciated the little voices 3FC has put in my ear when the bratty kid eater in me rears her spoiled head.

WOW! :o i love both of these points. Very informational thanks guys~! :)