I know that with my frame, I am very tiny up top, small arms, wrists except I have big muscular thighs and wide hips so when I was in a 3 or 5 in bottoms it just did not match up with my frame. I was looking through old pictures and I came across one from around 2003 and I was my tiniest ever and I looked so sick. I wanna be smaller but def. not sick looking.

I'm just now starting to feel like I belong in the lean/thin/athletic group as opposed to chubby/overweight even though I'm WELL within the healthy BMI range. I do not consider myself skinny. And, I fully admit to being a media-manipulated youth who has been brainwashed to think that models on a magazine cover are the only acceptable version of beauty in society. I realize this, and I'm actively trying to get over it.

I'm a comfortable size 4 at American Eagle. I started out at 183, barely being able to stuff myself in size 12 at American Eagle. Size 4 at AE translates to 6 or 7 (junior size) because of vanity sizing, but that's the store I usually shop from, so it's the sizing that I think of. I won't be surprised if I'd drop down to a 2 at AE in some styles of jeans.

That being said, I used to be horrified at the thought of being a size 2, I used to think there's no way a person of my frame/height could fit in a size 2 without being anorexic. But I am not anorexic, in fact, I have quite a bit of flub I could lose before I started to look sick. I still have belly chub, my ribs don't show, my hip bones are just starting to show, and I'm really quite meaty and soft all the way around. Not that I feel the need to be a toothpick, I'm quite happy with how I am, but I'm certainly not anorexic and I fit into surprisingly low sizes. Part of that is definitely vanity sizing.

So it's not entirely fair to assume that single digit and low single digit sizes are sickly underweight or anything. A lot of it is so skewed thanks to vanity sizing. And you all may surprise yourself when you get closer to goal...I had NO idea I would get this low sizing-wise, and I certainly wasn't aiming for it. I'm well within the healthy range, right smack dab in the middle, in fact. I just happened to end up at a low clothing size.

And what about outside factors that control your size, besides weight? My sister is a bean pole with size DD tata's, so even though she couldn't possibly get any skinnier (at least in a healthy way) she doesn't buy "small" tops. I also have a best friend who couldn't get any skinner who has to buy larger jeans because of her hips.

That said, I think both are still in the single digits. 8 or 6? Trust me, they look like 2s.

But yeah, that's why I haven't been thinking much about size. I care about my weight and bmi, and even those have mitigating circumstances. I'll try to answer anyway- I think I'd be very happy in a 10, considering I was a 12 for years. I think I'd feel fully complete in my journey if I could get down to an 8. But I would have to see when I get there.

Btw, I didn't think for a second that you were poo-pooing on single digits. Just the strive to get to single digits. And I agree. What an arbitrary, and possibly unattainable number to focus on. Hey, if it motivates you, great. But I wouldn't focus too heavily on it.

I would love to fit back into a size 8. Not really for shopping or anything new, not because I don't think I look good as a size 10 (I'm a 12 or 14 now), but because I want to fit back into all the pretty size 8 clothes I have!!

Gosh, I'm feeling pretty darn good in my 14's. I no longer feel like people are judging me based on weight. I'm happy living in la-la land at the moment! :D Truly, very happy.

I'm still going of course, but I just don't care anymore...I'm happy! I do not FEEL overweight now that I've set down 45 pounds. Everything I do is already joyfully easier!

Originally Posted by Belease:
Please also don't forget that some of us have much smaller bones, or are shorter, etc. I would love to look fantastic at a heavier weight/higher dress size, but the fact remains that it's all proportional to your frame.

I was going to say the exact same thing. I am 4'11 - the largest I have ever been was a 10-11 but I was still considered overweight. ****, going by BMI I am still overweight, but wearing a 6-8. But if you are taller you can be a larger size and still be healthy.
My sister is 7 inches taller than me - when she was at 160 she had the same BMI as I do now. That was her smallest, and she was a 10-12. Size DEFINITELY plays a part in my opinion.

Honestly, it's not what I can **wear** that will make me stop feeling overweight.

It's about how I feel, really. On one of my "fat" days, staring into my closet at small sizes still won't help. I know this because I once I got down to 109 pounds & was still aiming for 105, and I looked at my clothes, which in those days, were a size 6, wishing I could be a size 4. And had I reached a size 4, I know I still wouldn't have been happy, because I was simply an unhappy person & the cause of all my unhappiness actually was NOT my weight. Weight was a symptom, rather than a cause, only the relationship between the two was symbiotic, so I mistook it for the cause.

I'm trying to make it more into how I feel, and if I want something tangible, what I can **do.** I want to be in a body that can run a 5K in 30 minutes or less. I want to be in a body that can do that yoga position in which you balance on your hands with your knees placed on your elbows. I want my knees to continue holding up. I want to be cancer-free forever -- particularly after watching my father die slowly & suffering horribly from cancer & my mother go through radiation treatments. I want to be off statins & an ACE inhibitor. (I've nearly reached the later goal, since the dosage has been dropped twice since I started losing weight.) I want my A1C to remain low, above all.

That is what I want, rather than sizes. Because I am sure the clothing industry will change sizes once again, if the general population is indeed continually growing. (Do any of you own vintage clothing? I own a blouse from around 1905 & a dress from the mid 1920s & another white dress from just before World War I. Those women were even tinier. We have nowhere to go but up.)

Originally Posted by saef:
I'm trying to make it more into how I feel, and if I want something tangible, what I can **do.** I want to be in a body that can run a 5K in 30 minutes or less. I want to be in a body that can do that yoga position in which you balance on your hands with your knees placed on your elbows. I want my knees to continue holding up. I want to be cancer-free forever -- particularly after watching my father die slowly & suffering horribly from cancer & my mother go through radiation treatments. I want to be off statins & an ACE inhibitor. (I've nearly reached the later goal, since the dosage has been dropped twice since I started losing weight.) I want my A1C to remain low, above all.

Amen!! This is what it's all about! For me it's about having a lower blood glucose, lower blood pressure, lower resting HR, and having the endurance to complete a spin cycle class and to run! I am no longer too over weight for those pieces of GOLD!

As of this moment, my BMI says I'm overweight and will be until I reach 178 lbs. Do I feel or look overweight? nope. And I bet that if other people who knew me found that I was technically classified as overweight according to BMI, they wouldn't believe it either. I just feel some extra cushioning that I would like to get rid of.

Try to figure this one out though -- In order for me to be a "healthy" BMI, I have to be between 134 lbs and 178 lbs. I have seen 150 lbs on someone my height and it looks pretty good for a person who has no fat on her body at all. Dropping below that though? it's horrifying!

So I'll take being considered "overweight" thank you very much. And I don't believe it either. I have curves, I hear they're the "IN" thing now. :D lol

btw, tonyia, I like your pup! :D

I prefer to go by body fat % and lean body mass % as opposed to BMI. BMI can give skewed results because it factors in height and weight only.
I read once that when Arnold Schwarzenegger was at the top of his bodybuilding career, his BMI would classify him as OBESE. Why follow something as misleading as BMI?

Originally Posted by Tomato:
I prefer to go by body fat % and lean body mass % as opposed to BMI. BMI can give skewed results because it factors in height and weight only.
I read once that when Arnold Schwarzenegger was at the top of his bodybuilding career, his BMI would classify him as OBESE. Why follow something as misleading as BMI?

You know, I have heard that before. And when I'm as body-built as Arnold, then I will worry about it! :p Seriously though, you're right. But as I know more about BMI and how to calculate it, I'll stick with it, for now.

Actually, for now I'm just focused on staying on plan and watching the pounds drop. When I get closer to that ideal BMI or whatever, I'll rethink then.

I agree, BMI has its limitations. But all your-weight-should-be-this measurements have limitations. There's no calculator that factors in height, weight, body fat %, frame size, body shape (apple, pear, hourglass, etc), preference of how each person wants to look, etc etc etc. There is no combo of data that a person can plug in that will tell them their true ideal weight. Ideal weight is just where we feel the best, which is a very personal decision.

So yes, there are exceptions to BMI. Arnold was not fat, clearly. But in a way, it could be argued that he was indeed overweight. Our bones, tendons, and ligaments aren't made out of steel, and excess weight, whether it's fat or muscle, is stress. Do you think the human body was built to have Arnold amounts of muscle? Nope, just like it wasn't built to have that same amount of excess weight in fat. So yes, clearly, if you're aware that you're a very lean person with a low body fat percentage, you may be an exception to BMI. But the BMI is a wiiide range. My range is 117-159. That's a pretty broad generalization of "ideal weight," and it's safe to assume that MOST of the population is going to be healthiest in their BMI range.

If anything, it's a good guide to give the average person some numbers to aim for. When they get closer to goal, they can adjust up or down.

Originally Posted by preppingbride:

Try to figure this one out though -- In order for me to be a "healthy" BMI, I have to be between 134 lbs and 178 lbs. I have seen 150 lbs on someone my height and it looks pretty good for a person who has no fat on her body at all. Dropping below that though? it's horrifying!

So I'll take being considered "overweight" thank you very much. And I don't believe it either. I have curves, I hear they're the "IN" thing now. :D lol

Agreed! BMI is so NOT on the nose. I know that I looked horribly thin at 155 pounds - I was in my early 20s and lived on diet pepsi and ciggies. Not a good look. I wore a size 8 pants when I weighed in the 170s (note my height). I don't care what my "ending" BMI is - I think I will know when I'm looking good and feeling healthy. If I have an "overweight" BMI by a couple or even five pounds? C'est la vie! :D

I really just cannot wait to be anywhere close to where I want to be. I am sure 138 won't look so horrible to me when I hit it next time. ;)

Originally Posted by preppingbride:

btw, tonyia, I like your pup! :D

I was gonna say the same thing to you!! :D

I've yo-yo'd since I was.... "this many". I'm not sure WHAT weight I consider not overweight, but if I have to pin it down... at 5'3 (and a half!!) inches, I am currently 175. my BMI is 29. I wear a size 14 jeans. That's, like, seriously overweight (according to "the experts" and society) but not quite obese. One more BMI number and I WILL be obese. HOWEVER, I have a lot of muscle, and I know that's not really taken into consideration when looking at statistics; numbers on a page, etc.

I think I would be *NOT OVERWEIGHT* at 130 pounds, size 6-8. I'd be perfectly happy with 140 pounds, size 8-10.

I do agree that our perception of overweight, especially in American society, is completely skewed. I hate seeing headlines of some celebrity called "fat" for weighing 125 lbs. Makes me wanna commit heinous crimes & so forth. Ugh.