I think it was insensitive of your boyfriend to turn a bit of Hollywood gossip into an opportunity to point out that you are overweight and to further imply that because of that, you should not call others fat. I hope he regrets making you feel upset.
As for the word fat, I would always use "overweight" instead. It has less sting and is really more descriptive. In fact, when I even mention the name of the 3FC site in conversation, most people look a bit startled at the word "fat." I'm not knocking the 3FC name, because I think the novelty of it brings people to the site, who then become fans and followers, just as we are.
Why risk hurting anyone's feelings with the word fat?
Was that the "Hips Don't Lie" video? If so just WOW! That's my absolute ideal body type. Thin, but not boobless. I think I have a serious girl crush on that body, and the bellydance moves.
I completely agree about the girl crush on Shakira! Not just because she has a fabulous body but because she actually seems to have a brain.
Anyway, I've noticed that people seem to look at overweight people commenting on someone else's weight rather strangely, like they can't really say something because they let themselves get that way too. I try to avoid commenting on other people's weight (famous or not, unless I'm saying something more complementary to a really good friend, or "Gisele looks so amazing after just having a baby! She must have lost that baby weight crazy fast") because I wouldn't want someone saying that about me. I think when it comes to celebrities people are often crazy critical, if they were real people no one would really blink an eye at the weight gain, or consider her weight to be unusual.
All that being said, I think it is human nature to criticize other people. Regardless of the fact that we are hardly perfect. Everyone has made some kind of a snarky comment about someone else (some girl's hair, for example, although mine is definitely not flawless) that could just as easily apply to themselves. I can see why your boyfriend's comment upset you, and I'm sorry that your feeling were hurt.
Yep snarky comments are common and even "normal," but snarkiness triggers snarkiness (and that's normal too). It's unrealistic to expect a "perfectly compassionate" response to snarkiness.
It may seem "ok" in this situation because Shakira isn't going to be hurt by any comments - but I think the boyfriend was. When someone (especially someone close) is snarky about something (or someone) you like it's perceived as an attack (well, it IS an attack on the person's taste and judgement).
When my husband makes fun of a television show or a book I like, it stings. Even if he's "joking" it sure feels like he's making fun of me. And I think that's how the bf took this. It wasn't about insulting Shakira, it was about insulting something he enjoys. Insulting his judgement and tastes.
When you attack someone else, you've got to understand why they might attack back.
I just hate catagorizing into fat OR thin...most women fall in the middle ground. I also just hate that in this generation, women seem to have lost all respect for each other. That's probably the saddest part.
Even though Shakira can't hear the comment, it is the general nature of being overly critical of people in the limelight that causes some celebrities to go overboard with weight loss and body restructuring to the point of danger. So, to me, criticizing a celebrity is jumping on the negative bandwagon with the rest of the paparazzi in making that person feel bad.
On a more personal note, it would sure take a lot of nerve for me to slam someone on their weight, considering my own issues. And I think it is even worse if I have to consider my own "perfection" before ripping someone else. I don't think for one second that the person hearing me denounce someone else's problem would turn to me and compare, and then think, "Well, I guess she can judge because she's ____." All my listener is likely to do is judge me and wonder what I say behind her back.
it degraded into an argument where it seemed like he was telling me I could have no opinion on any other person since I myself am overweight.
Well, he's a fan, and you made fun of his fan crush and it sounds like you hurt his feelings. So he jabbed back. What did you expect? Logical debate?
I like certain things but I don't think I'm a "fan" of much, and I'm certainly not a fan like some of my relatives are about sports or cars or...
So what's the protocol these days, am I allowed to use the word fat in public or only between the girls?
Doesn't matter. It appears that for YOUR relationship, it is best not to go there with it.
You are entitled to your opinion. He is entitled to his. You can agree to disagree calmly. Why let it degrade into an argument?
As for saying "fat" to describe people, I don't much care, but I try to use "overweight" because I don't know how the other person feels about it. While "fat" as a word doesn't bother me, it can be a very charged words for some.
I agree with kaplods on this one. I think you poked fun at someone your bd likes, and your bf poked back. And honestly, I don't think it's appropriate to comment on anyone's weight unless they bring up the subject, even if they'll never hear your comment (like in this situation).
And on a different note, Shakira is awesome! I love her music, and she looks amazing!
And I definitely think your BF got peeved because he's a fan and he's thinking, "how can you call anyone fat if you yourself are?". But I think it's okay to note and say something like, "oh it looks as if she's put on some weight". I don't think that's criticizing, just saying what is. Just as if to say, oh, "I think she's dyed her hair, didn't it used to be brown?" or "I think she's lost weight, she looks slimmer". So I don't think it's wrong of someone who is overweight to notice that someone else is too... Just because we ourselves are doesn't mean that we can't notice when someone else IS.
Last edited by rockinrobin; 05-01-2010 at 05:14 AM.
That being said, your feelings are hurt because you called someone fat and your bf called you on it. I feel that you have a right to your opinion, but he has a right to tell you he disagrees with it too -- unfortunately, as others have said, he probably perceived your opinion as a rude comment and responded in kind (rudely). Sorry that your feelings were hurt, but in this type of situation, I'd probably go with mom's advice, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
Am I blind? I still don't see the "gained a few sizes," and I certainly don't see the fat, and the "unhealthy" Gawd, I wish I was that "unhealthy"?
I realize that still having more than 150 lbs to lose, my judge of "fat" is a little off, but I don't see even 10 lbs of weight gain here (enough for TOM water retention or the cut of her gown to be "to blame" for looking a smidgen less buff than in other videos).
I have to say that, both as a psychologist and as an observer of men - as a rule, men do not understand the way women cut each other down (at least when the "victim" isn't there to defend themselves). Men do it to each other - they call their friends all sorts of horrible names, but they do it to each other's faces and they take as good as they get. It's a verbal sparring match, and afterward (even after fights that get physical) men can be friends again, whereas women hold grudges.
I prefer the term fat to overweight myself (over who's weight?) I would love fat to be an objective descriptor like tall. We realize that "tall" is in the eye of the beholder. To someone 4'2", 5'2" might seem tall, but "overweight" implies that a person is inappropriately fat. But that's not the society we live in. Fat is a bad word, it's a bashing word, and until it stops being used that way, it's going to be treated as such.
If Shakira is inappropriately fat, or fat in any context of the word, I guess I'm in deep ****. I might as well slit my throat right now.
I think any woman calling Shakira fat (even if the person doing the criticism is bulimic and dangerously underweight) does a disservice to all women. The ruler we judge ourselves and each other by, is so narrow that women are still endangering their health to meet unrealistic standards of beauty.
That it is socially acceptable to mock celebrities for being "fat" even by those of us who are far fatter, is a crime against humanity. Because the message is getting to Shakira, but the message is also getting to everyone who hears the comment. "If Shakira is fat, what am I?" Little girls are hearing these messages, and they're comparing their (normal) bodies to the women on tv and in magazines and they don't know those standards aren't attainable (or often even real. Who explain airbrushing to an 11 year old - they only know that everyone likes the skinny woman in the magazine with legs impossibly long, courtesy of photoshop).
Until gaining weight is no longer seen as a crime against society and morality itself, it will not be seen as neutrally as "I think she's dyed her hair, didn't it used to be brown?"
I like to talk about fat that way. I do it about myself all the time (I rarely do it about others, because I know that others do not see the word as neutrally as I do. Even so, when I call myself "fat" even in a positive way (with the hugest and loudest smile on my face and in my voice) people will often "call me on it." Telling me not to "bash" myself.
Weight gain is rarely seen in a positive light in this society (even when it obviously is). Weight loss is seen as such a virtue that bulimia and anorexia are still monumental problems, now not only among women, but among young men as well.
That Shakira in that shape, could be seen as "fat and unhealthy" by anyone boggles my mind. I'm offended, not on Shakira's behalf, but for all women - because those standards are killing us. Women are deciding that losing weight is hopeless because they can't look like Shakira. If perfection can't be attained, the journey isn't worth taking. Others are risking their health to try to match a standard that won't work for their bodies, through diet and even surgery. The "window" of beauty is so narrow, that no one measures up (especially in the age of PhotoShop when even the celebrities and supermodels reality doesn't match their image in the media).
When size 2 to 6's are being criticized for being fat, what hope is there for those of us who are morbidly obese, and may never be able to starve ourselves smaller than a size 14 or even 12. Do we have to feel like ogres among "normal" folks?
You probably think I'm being melodramatic, but I really think this is important. It isn't men "holding women down," it's women. Cattiness hurts us all. If only we called each other on it more.
And I definitely think your BF got peeved because he's a fan and he's thinking, "how can you call anyone fat if you yourself are?". But I think it's okay to note and say something like, "oh it looks as if she's put on some weight". I don't think that's criticizing, just saying what is. Just as if to say, oh, "I think she's dyed her hair, didn't it used to be brown?" or "I think she's lost weight, she looks slimmer". So I don't think it's wrong of someone who is overweight to notice that someone else is too... Just because we ourselves are doesn't mean that we can't notice when someone else IS.
No way. I can be sometimes critical of people's weight, but there's no way in heck I could call Shakira fat in this video. No way at all. She's like a size 6, max. Her arms are amazing.
I prefer the term fat to overweight myself (over who's weight?) I would love fat to be an objective descriptor like tall. We realize that "tall" is in the eye of the beholder. To someone 4'2", 5'2" might seem tall, but "overweight" implies that a person is inappropriately fat. But that's not the society we live in. Fat is a bad word, it's a bashing word, and until it stops being used that way, it's going to be treated as such.
Ahhh, we can go back and forth on this one. What defines *fat*? How much, ummm, overweight does one have to be in order to be *correctly* called it? To me, overweight means weighing in excess of what is determined to be a *healthy* weight - and then of course there's who and how and what determines that. Yeah, we can go back and forth. Anyway....
I too don't believe Shakira looks fat here. Not by any stretch of the imagination. I just thought/think it's okay to mention if someone has put on a few. But I also don't think Kate Winslet looks fat and that poor woman gets beaten up over it all the time.
I think that's why the OP's BF got so upset. From a man's standpoint (& most?) women - that is NOT a fat woman. But a sexy, vital, energetic, HOT woman. Fat, overweight - no where near on my radar screen if I were to describe her. Men, of course it runs the gamut, but I think most men really ummm, like a girl with a little *meat* on them. So there is no way he's thinking she's fat, overweight, whatever the heck you want to call it. He's thinking she's pretty darn hot.
I am a terrible judge of people's weight - what they weigh, how much they *should* way, if they're overweight or not. If they've gained 10 lbs, if they've lost it.
But I do think she *may* have put on a few pounds - but I'm not even sure if I would have noticed it had it not been pointed out to me, since I haven't seen her in ages. Like I said her weight doesn't even play into the picture when I see her.
Last edited by rockinrobin; 05-01-2010 at 09:36 AM.
personnaly i beleive everyone is entitled to their opinion, yet those who use their opinion to critisize other people with hurtful comments such as 'fat' are simply just rude and are extremely immature, so yes you can call people fat if you want though wether they hear it or not its still hurtfull, i guess i just beleive people should treat others how they care to be treated in return
Unhealthy-looking? To me, she's beautiful & has that vitality & positivity & undefinable "look at me" aura about her that I often hear called charisma or star power or the X factor or whatever else.
I agree with what someone else mentioned, that she's got decently defined arms. This woman works out or moves a lot. And she has a pointed chin, though with a slightly rounded face. She's curvy.
I call myself "sturdy" & have a body type somewhat like hers. (Hers is the deluxe version, though -- mine is factory-issue generic.) I can't call her fat without calling myself fat. And I don't think I'm fat anymore. I was, for years, but now I'm average.
Women calling each other "fat" in a contemptuous way always stings me, from remembered slights over the years, even if it's not directed at me. I do think if we're fat, we should try to "take back" the term. But we're not at that place yet. In this culture, today, it's still one of the cruelest epithets one woman can lay on another.
