My daughter and I just had a conversation. We don't understand something, and we would like to be educated.

We've noticed so many beautiful women, in their "during" photos, who look wonderful to us. They've lost all their flab, they're certainly healthy, they can buy clothes from any store in town....

But they still say they want to lose another 20 pounds, or drop another three sizes???

I know everyone has to choose their own goal. And I know everyone needs to set the goal *they* are happy with. But I also know that there are some who will never be happy, no matter what they accomplish.

Daughter (eratosthanes, who will most likely respond to this post) tells me they've recently lowered the ideal "non-overweight" BMI for women from 27 to 18. If this is true, I don't like it. Not because it gives me an even harder goal to attain, but because now women who have a BMI of 18.5 are going to start hating themselves and feeling "fat."

Please tell us why people who have worked so hard, who have accomplished so much, and who to us look so wonderful, are still not happy with themselves? Thank you.

I think something is fishy with that. I'm pretty sure the upper limit of "normal" BMI remains 24.9. The upper limit for "overweight, then, is 29.9. Under 18.5 is "underweight. I don't know where "27" comes from.

I was going to re-post something I mentioned in another thread but they removed it!?

Basically it is what my mother said, with the addition that I think some of the women in the goal pics forum need to GAIN some weight. Being 5'7 and 135 is not healthy. It is starving, and I think some attention needs to paid to it. 20 yrs. ago, the standard was for a woman to be 27% body fat. That has dropped rapidly since then, with the new recommendation at 18%. 20 yrs. ago that was considered starvation. Have women really changed so much, or our standards now unhealthy?

4. Sex-Specific Measurements

Evidence from epidemiological studies indicates that a high waist circumference is associated with an increased risk for type 2 diabetes, dyslipidemia, hypertension, and CVD. Therefore, the panel judged that sex-specific cutoffs for waist circumference can be used to identify increased risk associated with abdominal fat in adults with a BMI in the range of 25 to 34.9. These cutpoints can be applied to all adult ethnic or racial groups. On the other hand, if a patient is very short, or has a BMI above the 25 to 34.9 range, waist cutpoints used for the general population may not be applicable. Based on the evidence from nonrandomized studies, the panel makes this recommendation:
For adult patients with a BMI of 25 to 34.9 kg/m2, sex-specific waist circumference cutoffs should be used in conjunction with BMI to identify increased disease risks. Evidence Category C.

This is the closest thing I could find, since the actual FDA site is not working for some reason. Of course, this refers to abdominal fat, not total fat, so I really don't know. The 18% was something I read in a medical journal, but as I have no proof, and can neither confirm or deny my posit, I temporarily say, we'll see. Needless to say, I could not find the supposed cut-off point anywhere. Also, this is from '98, so it may be different now.

(1) Wow. I'm starving and unhealthy. Who knew.

(2) Please provide a reference that the "new recommendation" is 18% body fat. I can't even begin to comment without knowing what you are referring to.

(3) Body fat percentage is NOT the same thing as BMI.

I am aware that that is not the same thing, but I do know this. Olympic (female) athletes have fat percentages in the low teens. They also usually stop menses, and have trouble having children later on. I am not saying 18% is impossible to attain, or even that you can be relatively healthy there for a time, I am saying that getting ANY lower than that increases your risk for reproductive issues and Alzheimer's later on. I have seen goals, including some met, on here where they are at 12-15% body fat. This is NOT healthy.

If you feel good, maybe you can function at a lower level, but for most women this is bad advice.

1. Yes, we need to do some research. I know government guidelines change frequently, and for that reason alone I don't trust them.

2. By the way, I've already forgotten some of the conversation. It could have been "body fat" not BMI.

3. God, please, let's not get a fight started.

4. It probably isn't a good idea to critique anyone's body size. When my daughter and I reach goals that we are happy with, some people are likely to say we're still overweight. We probably won't like that.

5. To lose a bunch of weight, and then be told you are too unhealthfully skinny and should gain some back, could sound offensive. It could smack of "I'm jealous, and I want you to undo some of the hard work you've done." Knowing my daughter, I know she doesn't mean it that way, but I can see where others would think so.

6. I just don't understand why some people *aren't* happy with their results. To me they look beautiful. That's where I sit.

That's a really tough question to go about answering. There could be so many different reasons... Maybe someone is trying to get down to a weight they used to be, maybe they have idols and strive to be like them...

But they may very well be happy with themselves Just because they haven't reached their goal doesn't mean they can't love their body. I know I'll love my body and feel very sexy when I drop 20lbs... but that's nowhere close to where my goal is.

Again, it's a tough question because it's going to change from person to person SO much.

Also, I made a typo. it was 5'9 and 135, not 5'7. I am sorry, I didn't mean to call you starving in specific.

If a woman is strong, energetic, and happy at a certain weight, then who's to say there is anything wrong with it? That seems like the definition of healthy to me. Unless it is causing an actual medical issue, I think it's completely uncalled for to say that an arbitrary height-weight combination is so low as to be "starving" for a given woman.

Also, where are you getting this information that 20 years ago, somehow the standard was 27% body fat for women? If you've looked at pictures of your family or other folks from that time, you'll see that most average people were thinner 20 years ago than average people now... and even thinner 20 years before that, and so on!

As far as saying that the "new recommendation" is 18% body fat for women, I haven't found any evidence of that. The World Health Organization and National Institutes of Health recommendation for the healthy body fat range for women ages 20-40 years old is 21-33% body fat (23-35% for women 41-60 years old).

I hope this helps!!

Here at 3FC we are not medical professionals. We are just a bunch of folks who come here to find support, camaraderie, and to gain and share knowledge.

It's impossible to gauge where on the health spectrum someone sits by merely taking a glance at their height and weight. You can't guess on body fat, cholesterol, fitness, etc...

Weight really doesn't paint that big of a picture. Throughout this journey we adjust. Sometimes goals change. And as long as those goals are carried out in the name of a healthy body and mind, we will support them.

I would also like to say that body fat and body weight are not one in the same and I think they are being spoken about interchangeably here.

I agree completely that we'd all be much happier if we could find more satisfaction and delight with ourselves, as we are! It really is important for us to accept our own beauty, as well as the beauty of others

Junebug, you are absolutely right. I shouldn't have made the comment the way I did, it just bothers me to see women trying to get to a point where they MIGHT not be healthy.

I just forgot to consider that just because I was 29 percent body fat at 208 doesn't mean everyone is. I will look up the exact statistic from the FDA as soon as their site works again.

I can see OP's point.

I would say in my experience that many (if not most) women want to weigh 10-20 lbs less than a weight they are very healthy at and at their "hottest" to most men.

As a guy, I'm going to limit my comment to that and quickly exit this thread

HAH! Yes, my partner would agree with you!! (I lose my chest first )