Before "this time," I never gave low-carb dieting much of a chance (and probably still wouldn't have, if I hadn't had two doctors recommending that I do so).

In 35+ years of dieting, I tried thousands of diets (existing diets, and diets I created), but only a handful have been low-carb, and I rarely lasted beyond the initial phase (induction, phase, level, stage... each diet had their own label for the "kick-start, super low-carb portion of the diet."

I never gave low-carb diets much of a chance because I "knew" (or thought I did) that they were unhealthy, and that I'd just regain the weight when I returned to eating large amounts of carbohydrates (and I never really considered controlling carbohydrates as a lifetime option).

Now I look at it this way. I love bread, pasta, and other grain-based foods. I also like fruit (to the point that I could eat 10 servings a day if I allowed myself to - I have gained weight on fresh fruit before). But for me to say that I won't choose a low-carb plan for life because I like carby foods, is a bit like a heroine addict refusing to choose a narcotic-free lifestyle, because they love opiates.

I think the addiction model for overeating, is sometimes overused, but for many, including myself, the parallels are pretty compelling. Almost all food addictions are carbohydrate addictions (it's rare for compulsive overeaters to binge on low-carb foods. A green bean binge isn't very likely. Nor even a bacon binge, it just is much more likely to be carby foods - because it's the carb-rich foods that produce the "eater's high," triggering endorphin and serotonin release).

It may not be realistic, or appealing to consider, but I may never be able to include carb-rich foods in my diet on a regular basis. Grains may be a food I always have problems controlling, and elimination may be more doable than portion-control.

Food addiction is a bit different than drug addiction. I can say that I probably should never eat bread or baked goods (unless my body's reaction to them change at some point), but it's likely that I will slip at times. If alcohol or drugs were as omnipresent and were pushed as aggressively by virtually everyone in our lives, I think drug addiction would look much the same - and in fact I know it does. Having worked in substance abuse treatment, I know that if an addict goes back to an environment in which drugs are always present and their family and peers are always encouraging them to use, their rate of success is far below those who choose to find a "new" environment where that doesn't happen.

It's pretty hard to find or create an entirely low-carbohydrate environment (unless you live alone, do not work outside of the home, never allow carbohydrated into your home, and basically never leave your house). You will encounter carb-rich foods, and you will be encouraged to eat them (sometimes even bullied).

I have to learn to give up high-carb foods, perhaps indefinitely. Quite frankly, I'm not doing so well, because I still say all the things to myself that I always have (you can have anything as long as you count the calories), in order to justify indulging in my addiction. I've proven to myself that bread really is my opium. I can't eat one slice and be done with it. I don't know if I ever will.

I used calories/points counting for years and would lose weight and maintain the loss very well as long as I stayed on plan. The problem was I couldn't or wouldn't view it as a lifestyle change I could live with. After getting older, I found I couldn't rely on the calorie counting anymore to lose weight. Even when I stayed within my points, I was not losing. I felt stuck and frustrated. My cholesterol was also creeping up. It was only after changing what I was eating that I was able to get the scale moving again. I eat South Beach now and don't count calories. This WOE was like turning on the light bulb for me, so I think it was all about eliminating processed foods, bad fats and simple carbs. Another plus about this WOE is I no longer feel hungry all the time. I am extremely satisfied with my meals and don't crave the "bad" stuff anymore. I eat way more fruits and veggies, my skin looks great for 52, my cholesterol and BP are perfect. I have been maintaining for well over a year now at a weight I was in junior high. I am not struggling to maintain anymore and couldn't be happier. :D

If you think it is better to get your calories from these sources, then do you really think that (to the first bolded) it doesn't matter HOW you get your calories?

I'm not trying to pick apart your post, but I see this frequently around here as a minor contradiction. "Sure, 1200 cals are 1200 cals, but it's better to get your cals from those sources."

I know for me, 1200 cals is NOT 1200 cals. I could it 1200 cals of pasta and feel ravenous, cranky, tired, and bloated. I could eat 1200 cals of a protein on a bed of leafy greens with a side of hummus and feel energetic, full, and definitely not bloated.

I not only don't lose weight on a high carb diet, it wreaks havoc on my body in several ways. I think people are more carb sensitive than they realize (mostly because SO much of the SAD is high in processed carbs).

So no, I guess I don't believe that :^:

When you say your appetite, do you mean that you're hungry or just "feel like eating" because you LOVE food? Big difference.

I also really LOVE food. Did before I lost the weight and do so even more now.

BUT I no longer settle for foods that simply JUST taste good. They do indeed have to taste good, but they must ALSO be good for me. While I'm eating them and long after I'm done chewing. That's the difference. I became choosier, more selective. I now want to be healthy, slim, fit and trim just as much as I want to eat tasty foods.

Wanting to eat just for the sake of eating I finally realized was irresponsible on my part. AND it was abuse. OVEReating is a form of abuse.

And here's another thing, though those "other foods" taste good, though your cravings for them will diminish greatly upon doing without them, they never provided TRUE HAPPINESS. I wasn't happy when I was overweight. I was , lethargic, worried, full of aches and pains, under-productive and just plain old MISERABLE. So now the foods that I eat taste good, are good for me and produce that slim, fit, trim and healthy person that I always longed to be.

Well... when I "AM" hungry, I tend to eat more (I think). I know one of my problems is that I am a fast eater. I have tried little tricks like putting my fork down between bites, counting how many times I chew something, etc. But I do seem to eat quickly. Then again, I do most things in my life fast. I walk fast. Talk fast. Type fast. Drive fast. Etc. So I think that "fast" is just in my blood. :dizzy:

That sounds wonderful. And I do attempt that. I think another one of my problems is that I don't like to cook. I just am not a kitchen-happy woman. I'm not interested in cooking, not interested in recipes that have more than 3-4 ingredients, and if I have to spend more than 30 minutes prep time? Not gonna happen!

Not to say that I don't EVER cook, because I do. And I rarely eat fast food (maybe 4-5 times A YEAR, seriously) - if I'm gonna go for a quick meal, I'd more likely do a shrimp or chicken salad. Or a turkey sandwich w/low fat cheese on whole grain bread w/lettuce & tomato. Ummmm... yes! - and when I DO cook, I do it healthy. Baked/broiled chicken (rarely eat anything fried), seared tilapia, sweet potaotes, green peas, low-fat beef in my whole wheat spaghetti, etc. And I only have dinner rolls or bread with my meals if I'm eating out (rare) or having some special occasion (Thanksgiving, etc.) Usually for lunch, I eat something like a Healthy Choice meal, or a sandwich (see previous description) or a frozen Green Giant mixed-veggie with a sliced tomato and a piece of fruit. I usually have a banana or an apple as a mid-morning snack. A handful of almonds &/or walnuts or a granola type bar in the afternoon (I have discovered Nature Valley Sweet & Salty Nut granola bars... a truly low-cal (160) delicious way to fight off the binges!... I am also fond of the Quaker "True Delights"... 140 calories of YUM!)

For dinner, if I'm really tired & don't feel like cooking at all, I mix a bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios with Kashi Go Lean Crunch. And I always have skim milk. And daily breakfast is usually a Slim Fast shake because I'm always in such a hurry in the mornings. On weekends, I like to have eggs, bacon and maybe a slice of toast.

I drink water all day every day. Sometimes I have a glass of tea. I have 2 cups of coffee in the morning. Every now & then I get into a soda mood... but 90%... mostly... water. And believe me, I drink a buttload of it! ;)

When I write down everything I eat, I do not see anything remotely BAD. At all.

So really, I don't know WTH I'm doing wrong. Unless it's the fact that I am not exercising these days. But even that! - when I was exercising faithfully & eating so healthy, etc, I STILL didn't lose a single pound... for THREE MONTHS, nope, not an ounce. But when I did Medifast, I dropped 20 pounds in a snap. So - I CONCLUDED that my problem was simply eating too much. But now I don't know. :?:

I never really thought about it like that, but you are abosolutely right!

I'm confused. Are you or aren't you tracking your calories? And if so, like in the 3 months that you tried and didn't lose - were you tracking faithfully, accurately and consistently - 7 days in a row, 14 days, 21 days? No off ones?

I'm confused because you then go onto say that your problem is you're simply eating too much....

And to get back to your original question. Seems to me like calories just might really matter to you (as the surely do to me). Maybe it's those granola type bars, the cereal, the WW pasta, the sandwiches, the dinner rolls. Maybe you ARE carb sensitive. Have you ever tried doing totally and completely away with non fruit/veggie carbs????

Oh, I just wanted to add, that I too am a fast eater. I was a fast eater before, I'm a fast eater now. So, though I'd love to let my meals last longer, it doesn't really matter in the long run as long as one keeps to their calorie budget.

YES. That was last spring. I completely gave up sodas & vending machine crap (altho I didn't have a lot of that to begin with) and I never ate over 1500 calories per day. Exercised 30 minutes, sometimes more. And NADA. Not one single ounce came off.

you too? :D ...see... I STAY confused at my non-losing weight issue. That's part of the reason I started this thread about calories.

Yes, I've done South Beach (lost 20) and a few years back I did Metabolic Research (which to me, is the SAME thing basically as South Beach) and I lost almost 20 on that as well. And maybe I AM carb sensitive, because the minute I tried to add carbs back into my diet, one serving of mashed pototoes, or one of mac & cheese, etc, that broke me & I'd get fat again.

God... sometimes I wonder if all this is really worth it. :?: I mean, I KNOW it is, but sometimes giving up just seems so... close.

I agree with Robin - the carbs might be getting you. If you have slim fast, cereal, ww spaghetti, maybe a cereal bar and sweet potatoes all in one day, that could be stalling you. (Even half that). I am insulin resistant (I have PCOS) and carbs are an issue for me. Even frozen dinners are frequently packed with pasta or rice. Replace peas and bananas with something lower starch/sugar. Medifast is fairly low carb, definitely low in sugar, so it could have been the calories or the carbs that worked for you.

Maybe dump the slimfast and try low carb slimfast, replace granola bars with cheesesticks and berries (or apples) or maybe even a veggie burger pattie with mustard. All of those are really quick, and don't require much cooking.

This is a really good book by Dr Jampolis. Everything in it is fast and suitable for brown bagging and on the go.

Hi Jennifer! - thanks for the book suggestion... I'll definitely look into it!

Ta-da.. Yup, I think that may be it. You have an *issue* with carbs. And yes it IS worth it. Your quality of life is at stake here. As well as your very life. And it's worth it. Accept the fact that this is how it is. Accept it. Lots of people have lots of issues with all different foods - celiac's disease, diabeties, chrohns disease just to mention a few.

Don't dwell on what you can't eat. Revel and celebrate all the luscious foods that you CAN eat. Ones that are delicious and provide you with optimal health - both physical and mental.

It's worth it. 10000% so. :)

I think that the older we get, many women have issues with carbs. Whether it is insulin resistance or some other force at work, controlling the type or reducing the amount of carbs does work for many of us. I agree it's truly worth it. And you know what, I feel better. I sleep better. My hot flashes are lessened. I can wear great clothes. My endurance at exercising is improved. I'll take all of that. That's not to say you can't have an occasional treat at a birthday or holiday. But this is a way of life for me now. I used to hate to cook too, but I don't mind now because the food tastes sooo good!

...so... am I to just never have macaroni & cheese? no whole wheat pasta? no any kind of pasta? like... EVER? Just stick to proteins (lean beef & chicken & fish) and a few veggies (not the kind I like of course... no green peas, no carrots, blah) and VERY few fruits and that's it... ?

I know I could never stick to a diet like that because I won't be satisfied. That's why I couldn't stay with South Beach even after I'd lost some weight... It would only take a few weeks/months for me to completely go off the wagon trying to eat like that.

THERE SIMPLY HAS TO BE A DIET THAT WILL WORK FOR ME. :(

I'm on SB and I eat whole wheat pasta, but not white pasta. I eat 100% whole grain, not multi-grain (No white flour). I really read labels to see what's in the food I eat. I use brown rice, couscous, quinoa, barley, lots of whole grains. I eat 1 or 2 fruits every day. I don't just eat a few veggies, I eat over 4 cups a day. I would never be satisfied with "just proteins and a few veggies and very few fruits". I also incorporate beans, lowfat dairy, healthy oils, and nuts daily. Don't use anything that has added sugars, like some pasta sauces or salad dressings. It's really pretty easy and satisfying when you get used to it. My weight plummeted once I started doing this.

I don't believe so, but only because you must have a certain amount of nutrients in your body to aide with weight loss and .. well, just overall health. If you lack calcium, protein, fiber, or even fat, your body can have a negative reaction. I believe in getting as much as you can of the nutrients you need - no one is going to get every single gram, but it's better than eating 1200 calories worth of whatever you want. Protein and fiber are especially important to aide in weight loss, muscle systhesis, and proper digestive health, which many people with weight problems have an issue with. Calcium is essential to people who have more weight to carry- it's good for the bones. There are a ton of nutrients that are necessary, even more so, for us.

I recommend taking a multivitamin and fiber/protein supplement if you don't feel you're getting what you need daily. :) At GNC, we have a ton of products marked down, so it really won't cost an arm and a leg. :):)

:eek:Dang, girl! Good for you.. I don't wanna get off track (as earlier posters mentioned) but you look wonderful for your age. :carrot:

You know, BeachPatrol, once someone starts putting things in terms of foods they JUST WON'T give up, and using that as a reason they CAN'T follow a plan, it's an indicator that there's something odd going on... ;)

It is only food, Beach! :yes: Maybe it's a food that you have developed an addictive process with, but it's still ONLY FOOD.

Let me give you an example. Suppose you went to the doctor, and the doc told you, "I'm really sorry to tell you this, but you can never again eat celery." Well, you might feel a bit bad about that if you really love celery, but probably you wouldn't have any trouble not eating celery. Now, suppose the doc said the same thing, only the food was mac & cheese... The fact that your reaction would be more extreme indicates that it's become something more to you than "only food."

It is all only food. Some foods are wonderful, delicious, and our favorites--but no single food should be a deal-breaker.

Also, try not to think in terms of "never again." That just gets you into scarcity mentality.

Jay

Well, in that light, all food is only food. I've had to give up food that I loved more than once in my life (i.e. when I was hypoglycemic/anemic... NO fried foods, NO sugar foods... not even a little!) and Vitamin K foods (salads, mostly... greens!) when I had pulmonary embolism. So giving up a food is not that horrible. But (There's always a but!).... I cannot eat something I do not like. For instance... onions. Don't like them on my burger, don't like them in a salad, etc. But I LOVE THEM in pot roast and I love onion rings. (go figger!)

However, I do appreciate your advice & taking time to type out to me... maybe I should give South Beach another go-round... sometimes certain things just take a while to "sink in" ya know? ...THANK YOU! :hug:

I was thinking along the same lines as Jay quite frankly.

The truth is there has to be a diet that you are WILLING to MAKE work for you. That if you ask me is the issue here.

Like Jay said, it's only food. If you allow it, your tastes WILL change. The longer you go without those foods, the less and less you will want them. FIND, DISCOVER, SEEK OUT other foods that you love. Experiment. Give em' a chance. Be super creative. Challenge yourself.

And remember when you are feeling all slim and healthy you will feel MARVELOUS and not miss those foods one bit. That's just how incredible you will feel with yourself. Know it. Know that it's coming.

You'll be feeling so incredible with YOURSELF, you won't need to rely so heavily on FOOD to give you that satisfactory feeling. I'm CERTAIN of it.

Give it a whirl. Find out who you were meant to be. This is a time of rebirth and self discovery. Amaze yourself! :)

I'd say tweak tweak tweak to suit your needs. Most of my calories come from carbs (70%) and I have PCOS and hypoglycemia. I lose weight as long as I'm eating the right carbs. When I'm maintaining, I have a slight leeway in that I can have an occasional off plan food but for the most part I stick to nonprocessed complex carbs and natural simple carbs (ie fruit). Of course my maintenance weight is higher than your high weight so I'm a bit different.

Have you read The Beck Diet Solution by Judith Beck? You might find it an interesting approach.

Jay

....I have that book... haven't read it yet... :chin:

Yes. Yes. And yes to the above.

For years I had heard that giving up the "white" stuff was the way to go in order to lose large quantities of weight. I figured that I was doomed then. Doomed. Because there was no way in H@*L I was going to give up "those foods". Then after many more years of MISERY, I WAS willing to try anything (healthy that is). I had become so sick and tired and miserable. I had had enough of being fat. I mean I had REALLY had enough of being fat. My desire to be fit, healthy, trim and strong outweighed my desire for *those foods*. FINALLY. I wanted to be slim and healthy more then anything. I was WILLING to make the change. Earlier it had seemed ludicrous and impossible. And then suddenly, when I wanted it (to be slim and healthy) badly enough, it seemed doable. And I was WILLING to do it. I was willing to do whatever was necessary. Whatever was required. Including foods I thought I could never, ever live without. The irony is, upon giving them up - now I'm first living.

If you would have told me years ago that I could do without those things I would have though you were a crazy, insane person. Same goes if I would have been told that I would actually look forward to, enjoy and crave the foods that I'm eating now WAAAAY more then that other stuff I was eating in the past. I am a bigger lover of food now, more then I was when I was 287 lbs. Without a doubt. No question about it.

But the great thing about it is, I also LOVE how I feel/look/act/live now 100,000% better. It was a win/win situation of GIGANTIC proportions.

I urge you not to DREAD these changes. But look forward to them. That's right. Look forward to the wonderful turn and transformation your life will take. Get excited about the changes and what it will mean for you and your very life. :hug:

I think that the addiction model for overeating, isn't a perfect one, but for many, including me the analogy is pretty close. For me to think that I can't follow a food plan that eliminates the foods I'm mostly likely to overeat, would be a lot like a heroine addict refusing to go on a narcotic-free "diet" because they love their opiates (It happens, but it's equally wrong thinking).

I'm not finding it easy to give them up. High-carb foods are much like drugs to me (and there's even research in insulin-resistance research and brain studies of "carb-addiction" that lend some support to the analogy).

When I was in college and graduate school (psychology) we studied models of substance abuse treatment (mostly for alcohol abuse) that did not require total abstinence, but allowed "responsible social use." I have tried over and over again (and failed repeatedly) to use bread and other carbohydrates responsibly, and I think it's really finally and completely sinking in that there is no responsible use for me, at least at this time. So, for now I have to eliminate most high-carb foods and learn to live with it, because it has to be easier than trying to "use responsibly" has been.

Hubby finally helped me "get it." He's been watching me try to eliminate wheat from my diet, and watching me fail every four to five days. He finally asked why I keep wheat in the house, and I said, "I don't want to keep you from eating it." He said, I obviously had not noticed that he is not eating it (just me). He said he could always buy a small package of crackers or bread if he wanted it - and that he really didn't need it either (he's diabetic and also trying to get more of his carbs from vegetables and less sweet fruits and less from grain and high-starch foods).

So, I finally made a really big step and got rid of every single bit of wheat in the house, except for the two small boxes hubby asked me to keep (a granola bar that lists wheat in the ingredients, and a whole grain breakfast "cookie" that contains whole wheat flour. I gathered all the intact boxes to donate to the food pantry, and all the open boxes went in a trash bag.

Parting with my "good carb" wheat foods, like my teff, flax seed and whole wheat Lavash bread (like a square tortila) and my boxes of cracked wheat and whole wheat couscous was hard. I really had to keep myself from snatching the boxes from the trash and the donation bin.

Using an addiction model, I'm far from the point that I could call myself "abstinent," and I may never be able to eliminate problem foods completely, but I am sure that the closer I can come, the closer I will get to my goal weight.

I can't envision myself never having a brownie again, and I do want to hope that at goal weight I will be able to add grain foods back in (if not wheat). There's some evidence that I might be able to (hubby's diabetic counselor says that insulin-resistance and the insulin spike/hunger cycle does seem to shrink as a person loses weight. So at 150 lbs, it's possible that high-carb foods won't trigger such extreme insulin spike hunger reactions. Maybe.

And maybe I'm just an addict wanting to think she can someday "use" socially.