How can you stay POP? You decide to.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "basically have to stop my entire life".

For me, what I was doing PRIOR to eating healthy was stopping my life, literally and THAT'S what made me miserable.

You can find a way to do this.

Since I changed my eating lifestyle, other parts of my life have changed. I no longer to out to the buffet with the family. Instread I will go with them to another restaurant where I can bring my own dressing for a nice salad or I ask for a variety of grilled chicken and vegs (yeah, you can order off the menu).

Yeah you probably do need to give up the drinking.

Remember it takes 10 days to form a habit, 30 days to break one.

This is something you can do, you just need to decide to do it, and do it. Find a way.

Points taken.

I do decide to stay and be on plan. I have already given up many things. I drink in moderation, I even have a wine glass at home that is marked clearly at 125 ml because its too easy to free pour. I eat no chips, cookies, candy (only WW stuff and then I literally have 1 piece to satisfy a need. We eat out maybe once a month. I go out for a drink with colleagues maybe once a month. I never eat fast food, ever. Last weekend I only completely finished one meal, the rest I stopped when satisfied. One meal came with fries, I ate exactly 11 of them. At breakfast I skipped the traditional pile of fried bacon and sausage. I ate fruit and yoghurt. I decided those things and CHOSE them because I DO want to stay on the program. I do not find it realistic to limit myself even more than I already do. I am miserable fat and I am miserable trying to rectify the problem. Am I supposed to give up everything?? I am bound to be more miserable to never go anywhere again and never enjoy another glass of wine with a meal or out with my husband.

I'm sorry that I am like this right now. I'm embarrassed but so very frustrated.

Honestly, I'm not going out to eat much because it's not particularly enjoyable. All I feel good about ordering is a salad, and frankly, I make a much better, more diverse salad at home...

When I have gone out with friends for lunch, I have ordered salad, no dressing. When I've taken my kids to a fast food restaurant, I've ordered tea or diet soda, no food. When I go out to eat with my husband, I order a salad, no dressing. One time I ordered some blackened sea scallops and a dry potato. It came with 5 little scallops and a dry potato; pretty depressing. My weight wasn't up the next day, but I wished I had ordered a salad.

I don't think you have to stop your entire life, but you do have to decide if going out is worth it. For me, when I'm home under normal circumstances, it isn't. I did go on vacation for 4 days and went to restaurants, ate normal food without too much thought about calories (within reason), and enjoyed wine each day. But when I got home, my weight was up a couple pounds and I had to redouble my efforts.

Losing weight is hard; there's no two ways about it. You have to decide that you want it. :hug:

I already have very little social life and I am a social person. I NEED something; going out 2x a month should be possible, no? Am I not supposed to travel anymore or do anything I enjoy? Because I still don't see how I can be POP and go places where not all food around me is in my control. And now it seems like I can only be successful now if I am POP.

Going out 2x a month is definitely possible, even when the food around you is not in your control. You just have to commit to making the best and healthiest choices that you can in those circumstances and exercising portion control.

If you don't want to do that, but instead want to just eat and drink like you normally would, then you need to accept that the scale may go up those weeks. So if you go out every other week, you may be in a cycle of
Week 1: POP --> down a pound
Week 2: indulge 1x, --> maybe down a little, maybe up a little
Week 3: POP --> down the little bit you were up last week, if that was the case, and then maybe down a little more?
Week 4: indulge 1x --> maybe down a little, maybe up a little

Maybe for you that's a more manageable pace -- knowing that little by little you will go down, but enjoying those nights out along the way. Weight loss is a personal journey with a lot of room for choice in how it happens, and how quickly it happens. It's a decision that ultimately you have to make on your own, and a lot of times, through a fair bit of trial and error.

Hmmm, when I was actively losing weight, I stayed on plan except for 2 occasions (my birthday and Christmas/Christmas Eve) - otherwise, no "cheating" from July 2004 until around April 2005.

I still did social things, I still went out to dinner with my then boyfriend every Saturday night, I just picked places where I could make healthy choices. I made the decision not to drink - at all. But that's just me, social situations don't really involve alcohol for me and I can completely take it or leave it (I did have one glass of red wine on my birthday and a glass of champagne at New Year's).

I always check out menus online first and I feel comfortable special ordering. A common order for me is grilled salmon, no butter, double steamed veggies, no butter. Most restaurants will add a grilled chicken breast to a house salad for a small extra charge. Sure, it's kind of boring, but if I'm out for a social situation - what is the real goal? To eat or to be social?

I hardly EVER take home leftovers, I don't care how much money I'm wasting, a dinner in a restaurant is always a bigger calorie hit than anything I can make at home and it must be a single meal, not multi-meals. I also practice not cleaning my plate in a restaurant - portion sizes are big.

I constantly remind myself that when I ate whatever I wanted, whatever food was around me - I was not a happy person. Food might taste good, but it did not make me happy. I already had that chance - to see what it was like to eat whatever I wanted and it was a miserable bust. Now that I am more mindful of my eating, I am a happier person.

It is much easier for me now that I'm maintaining. I'm a total foodie and love good food - the extra calories of maintenance allows for a bigger food indulgence one a week. But - to get to maintenance, I did without, for a long time and it was a good decision for me.

Velveteen, you're not thinking clearly.

But then you say this:

Who is saying you have to give up everything?? You know how to count points, right? So you know how to decide what to eat, right? How is that "giving up everything"? How does choosing to eat some things and not others add up to "giving up everything"?

It doesn't. That's where you're not thinking clearly.

I think perhaps you're trying to construct an argument by which you DO "have to give up everything," and if you're not willing to "give up everything," then you might as well just stay fat and eat and drink whatever you want at any time. Sorry, it doesn't wash!

Obviously you have to restrict some things. If eating and drinking the way you used to had worked for you, you wouldn't have the problem you now have. I think that's true of all of us here. :yes:

You keep figuring out your points and logging them every day. That's how you do it. You know how to have a glass of wine, and you know how to figure out what to eat at meals. So please don't confuse that with a lifetime of never having anything!

Jay

:(


what I am hearing is "give up alcohol" and "stay POP it's the only way to be successful"

I'm *not* thinking clearly, I know that.

But I am miserable! I'm miserable fat and I'm miserable when I'm POP. Right at this very moment I am RAVENOUS, cranky, I've had a headache all day and I can hardly focus. I've been POP *all* day and I'm about to have my carefully rationed out/weighed/measured and pointed grilled salmon, wild rice and steamed green beans. I will be at 23 points exactly, which is my daily allowance. And I am MISERABLE. I have been hungry ALL day, yet I've eaten, and I've eaten well! I've had my fruits, my veg, my olive oil, my protein, my snacks, and I am miserable.

So I'm not thinking clearly, no.

thank you for all the feedback. i have a lot to think about and get my head around so I can suck it up and do this thing!

i dont see any Started weight, Curant weight, and Goal weight of yours,.... and it said dont even ask... maybe you need to set little goals in your life? it might be easier to focus on 5 lbs than obstract number that is not exisiting in your head.. if you have a goal i recomend you write it down (post here) along with yout currant weight. Also make a ticker with mini goal. This will be a hige motovation for you. Mini goals are easier to achieve then just saying "i want to lose wigtht".

Also there is a family member who decided to lose withgt, she did well first 2 weeks, going to the gym, eating heathy, she lost about 7 lbs and was happy to see the prograss, the she stopped seeing scale dropping numbers as she was expecting so she stopped doing it all together. Meanwhile another relative has been going to the gym and eating healthy for 1 1/2 YEARS!!! they are very commited!! and she is 80 lbs lighter because of her commitment. Again, not a week!! YEAR AND A HALF! try that.

If one WW point is about 55 calories, then you've eaten 1265 calories today. You know what--on 1300 calories, I would be totally freakin' miserable, too. In fact, when I eat less than 1700 or 1800 calories, I'm totally freakin' miserable. Fat loss (being in a calorie deficit) does not FEEL good; it causes insomnia, aches and pains, mental fuzziness, fatigue, and more. So you're not weird or abnormal for feeling this way.

If eating at this level continues to cause you to feel this way every single day, then you know what--you can choose to eat more and lose weight less quickly. Or, you can choose to eat more and also become more active (burn more calories) through NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis, which is a fancy way to say all non-cardio / non-training calorie burn). You have other options, is what I'm saying. You don't have to choose misery, but you may have to trade off misery for slower weight loss.

I'm so sorry you're feeling crappy, I know it sucks. I hope dinner made you feel a little better.

Ok, Ms Velveteen! I feel your pain, and I am at 23 points a day, too. SO, here comes some assistance:
You CAN stay 100% on plan with Weight Watchers and have your glass of wine and go out twice a month. It IS possible -- I started at 244lbs and am now around 185lbs, so this is proof that it works. Here's what to do:
DEFINE what being on plan means for you. Sounds weird, but some people don't think they are on plan unless they get all their fruits/veg/dairy/oils PERFECTLY according to the WW guidelines. At 23 points a day, I personally find this IMPOSSIBLE TO DO. So for ME, being ON PLAN means staying within my points every day. That's IT. Somedays I need chocolate. So I give up the fruit. Seriously. I rarely make my veg intake because I hate veggies as a general rule. So I don't worry about it. I take a multivitamin instead. It isn't perferct, but neither am I and I need to LIVE within the plan, not let the plan dictate my life. SO:
1. Identify what foods you are missing and what will make you happy and plan accordingly.
2. Go online to Amazon.com or another website and buy some WW cookbooks. Often there are WW recipes for your favorites that, while not exact, are close enough to be satisfying.
3. Use your flex points (35 per week) to help you through the first two weeks, which are the WORST, especially if you have been somewhat out of control in the past. Using your flex points will slow your weight loss somewhat, but they are there to be used, so use them!!!!
4. Don't give up alcohol if you don't want to -- plan the points in or use your Flex points. I do this REGULARLY because I don't want to live like a hermit. But what this means is that I won't have 3 or 4 drinks in an evening -- I'll be happy nursing 1 or 2. But if I WANTED 3 or 4, I would adjust my points accordingly...and I go out to eat at least once a week, but am careful with what I eat and where I go. It CAN be done...do you have the "dining out companion book" yet? This is helpful for ethnic foods, which is what we usually go out for regularly.
5. Be disciplined and aware of your food intake and moods. Being on plan ensures success, but you HAVE to make the plan work for you or else you will be angry, frustrated and unhappy.
6. Look carefully at your points, and what I mean by that is this:
1 banana = 2 points. OR I could have 2 apples for 2 points.
1 cup rice = 4 points. OR I could have 1 cup of WW recipe garlic mashed potatoes for 2 points.
1 tbsp olive oil = 3 points. OR I could use an oil spray instead and have 3 cups of grapes OR 1/2 a chocolate bar OR 6 oz of red wine OR well you get the point. I know the plan says to eat oils, and dairy, but I'm telling you, there often aren't enough points in a day to be perfect with respect to all the food groups (seriously, 4 points a day on DAIRY! They are out of their minds!). So I take a multivitamin to compensate.
Salmon is fabulous, but 5 oz = 6 points, OR I could be just as satisfied with 4 oz of chicken = 4 points.
It takes time to get the hang of it, but you can work it.
Personally, I think you are going through what pretty much ALL of us go through, including:
Sugar Withdrawl Syndrome (especially if you used to eat alot of rice and pasta), PLUS
-and this is a biggie- GRIEF over losing your friend, your companion, and the thing that has always been there for you: FOOD. A weird thing to go through, but pretty much everyone grieves the loss of this companion at some point; PLUS
Generally being PISSED OFF that you can't eat what you want when you want without consequence, and it just isn't fair. Been there too...
So, just do your best for the week, and by week 3 you'll be into the groove of it. If you are "sort of on" the plan, it'll be hard to move past the initial irritation and annoyance into the groove...
Please keep posting!
Kira

Yes, I've done all that. I have always had my stats up since I became a member here. I have had the ticker up. I have had mini goals. I have joined challenges, had blogs and what not, kept track, went to the gym, all of that stuff. Again I *know* what to do and I have done it I just have not been consistent. I can't stand to look at the numbers or the tickers anymore! I am the same as I was 4 years ago! And that, my friend, is my fault, partially anyway. I can't do loads about my current schedule (as you all have heard me whine about before - 20 hours a week commuting, up at 4.30, no time for the gym, etc) so I'm making due. I've sucked up the "no time for exercise" excuse and have just been doing it. But seeing the numbers and setting mini goals is just depressing me, so I won't do it right now.

Our program is a wee bit different here, so the numbers you have there aren't quite accurate. Let's say when *I* was at my goal weight, years ago, and was maintaining, I was at 18 points per day. So I think our points are more like closer to 100 cals. These are the points that were determined to be for me according to height, weight, age, sedentary/not-sedentary. We also do not count points for *most* fruit, so there are calories there that are not really figured in. I don't overdo on the fruit, because at the end of the day I know too much *can* make or break (with sugar and calories). I was eating a banana or having a smoothie every morning and my leader said to try NOT having that for a week to see what happens.

Patience is not my forté obviously - I am so tired of being this size, I don't really want slower results, but maybe it's just how it's supposed to be right now, since I don't really know where else I could make a change (besides what is mentioned in this thread).

Thanks. Dinner is nearly ready so at least that's something.

I see that you're saying the points system is different where you live... maybe so, I don't know. If those were U.S. WW points, you would not be eating enough. Is there anywhere else where you live, or on the web, where you could get more information about WW there? Go to a different meeting?

I hope you figure it out! I think people have made lots of suggestions here, but mostly I'm hearing "no" on your end. :dunno:

Jay

Thank you Kira.

I need to have a look and maybe anaylze what I'm eating/ how I'm using my points.

I have tried the cookbooks but there is one fundamental challenge - I buy english language cookbooks and they are fashioned around either North American eating culture/ingredients or UK. I buy dutch language ones and they are full of Dutch cultural type foods and recipes, which, sad to say, I just really don't like (I find Dutch food quite bland and with a lot of vegetables that I don't like, or things just cooked to death and mashed up. I *can* cook, and I love to, so I experiment and make things based on recipes and put all of the ingredients into my WW online program to calculate points).

Eating Out guide... yeah, we don't really have one. It covers things like Fast Food (don't like it - don't eat it), Dutch and Belgian type food (I am in the Benelux region), Chinese (don't really like Chinese here, seems almost everything is cooked with pork and I don't *really* like pork), Indonesian, but very little Thai (love Thai), basic Italian (pizzas), Mexican (not a lot of Mexican places that have *anything* on the menu what is listed in the book)... so again I have excuses, but honestly, the culture just isn't like that here. And asking for anything different than what is on the menu gets the "you're kidding, right?" look (we are very behind in customer service). We really don't go out often so it's not a huge issue, but when we are travelling, for example, there is not going to be a listing of foods I can eat or restaurants to go to whilst I'm in Warsaw or Berlin, so I do just try to make the best choice I can. Also we have very limited WW products here - I usually just buy the WW lunch meat - 2 slices for 1/2 point for chicken.

We don't count our fruit (except a few things, like banana which I actually weigh out to WW points standards and throw away the rest!), so I don't have to give that up for chocolate. Problem right now with chocolate is, if I start, I won't stop. It's a definitely trigger food, so I just say "no" and it's ok. Same with chips. Don't buy them because I can and will eat the whole bag.

I don't do a whole lot of bread or carbs in general (some veggie carbs) and haven't for quite a long time now (years). I seem to be able to eat loaves of bread and never feel full - it's like eating air to me, so I don't do it much anymore. I have always seemed to have a hunger problem and have done tricks like have a NF latte, drink a diet soda (only have one occassionally), chew gum, smoke (gave that up at Christmas so that's a non-option :lol: ) I just really don't know how else I could eat. I love fruit and veg, I eat fish rich in omega-3 once a week (tonight was omega-3 night).

But you have a lot of good points (as have so many chicks here and I thank you), so I will think again about what I need/want/can fit in my plan. I did give my leader my planner for a week and she hardly could find anything at all that I needed to improve on except possibly I don't get enough healthy fats and that maybe I needed to lay off the banana in the morning and eat something more like a kiwi or some mandarin oranges instead.