Lori Bell, I too have thought people are too nice here. And actually 90% of the time when I post an issue, I'm not looking for "tomorrow's a new day" "it will be okay"... when I posted about my plateau, "It's okay just stick with it, it will work out" was the last thing I wanted to read.

It's probably just me personally, but when I post problems, my favorite responses are others' personal experiences. With plateaus, I like when others said "I had a plateau for X long and I did X and that seemed to help." Or binges--"I was binging X often and then I did X and my urge to binge pretty much went away."

Maybe some people do come here for forgiveness. I think maybe because most people in my life now know I'm a) trying to lose weight and b) have struggled with eating, that it's not a secret.

Anyways, Lori Bell, when you binge, do you do it in private? And the foods you binge on, do you ever eat them normally? You said you overate on candy... do you eat candy in front of others' or your husband? Doing away with secret eating has been the number one help in overcoming binging. I used to be terrified to eat fast food or junk food in front of someone. Now I can eat it in front of anyone and guess what--the urge to binge has gone down a lot (do I sometimes wish I could eat a whole pizza by myself--yes! But that thought is a tiny speck whereas it used to be the only thing I could think about).

No, no, no - you never come across wrong. I LOVE your posts.

I guess I was feeling guilty because I recently posted about how I ate just one Peanut M & M in anticipation for a party that I was making and before you knew it - I kinda turned it into a food fest kind of a post. And the reason I was feeling guilty is because the very threads that you describe, kinda bother me as well. And yes, I have learned to steer pretty much clear of those. It's too much of a trip down memory lane for me, which I find bothersome. But there are many threads here I steer clear of - many I don't. That's the beauty of this place. You CAN pick and choose.

But wasn't the party an extravagant food fest that you were excited about? I think that's relevant!

I am so very glad I didn't come across the wrong way. Phew.

I think Robin has a good point about steering clear of threads that trigger issues. I've been here long enough that I can usually predict how a thread will go and there are some threads that I choose not to participate in or add to if I feel I cannot be supportive or offer a positive viewpoint on. The bottom line is that 3FC is about support. Doesn't mean we all have to offer unanimous voices of support in all situations, but there are enough of us that everyone will receive some kind supportive words. If that makes sense....

Thank you everyone. I've been gone most the day and was kind of surprised at all the comments. First, I didn't mean to offend anyone with the "You all are too nice" comment. Really, that is what I like about 3FC! Seriously. I'm not blaming 3FC for my binges, I'm blaming myself for finding excuses for them on 3fc. I know that sounds odd. I've been trying to justify them because I see other people doing it and think if they do it, then I can do it. It's weird with food. I quit smoking quite awhile back, and I don't look for excused to smoke... Why is food so hard?

I don't know, I'm just ticked at myself because I *really* thought I had it all under control. I *really* thought I was able to control myself. To find that I can't really bothers me. Also the fact that I have used a terrific resource to justify my actions makes me even more disappointed with myself.

I read what each of you said, and I'll tell you, you all are a bunch of amazing people. As many of you said in so many words, I need to chill out and just keep on working it. And most definitely stay away from the binge Porn, (I just love that expression!)

Food IS different than most other "bad" behaviors, because it is so universally seen as a "good" behavior too. We sometimes give lip service to "healthy eating and exercise," but often it's only skin deep. The stereotypical fantasy is to be able to eat whatever you want, not exercise at all and yet look fantastic and somehow (amazingly even) remain healthy. People that seem to be able to do that are not criticized (at least not much) for the apparent discrepancy. They might be warned "you're going to pay for that later in life," but in the moment they are envied (whether there is any real basis for the assumption that they are truly eating excessively and horribly and getting no exercise).

In our culture, eating is good, being fat is bad. In fact, even at nearly 400 lbs, I had people pushing food on me. Why on earth would someone (stranger or friend) not accept a simple "no thankyou" when offering food (especially insanely unhealthy foods like "death by chocolate," after all the name says it all) to a super, super obese woman? Does this make any rational sense at all?

I think that control is the exception, not the rule. And I don't mean that pessimistically, it just means that I can take absolutely nothing for granted, and cannot assume this is easy. I also can't assume that I am terrible when I make mistakes.

I truly believe there are social, environmental, biological, biochemical, and even hereditary factors in this complicated equation. Our bodies are built for famine, but our environment provides a kind and quantity of food that is unprecedented in the "natural" world. Even critters prefer rich foods. Offer a polar bear or grizzly the choice between a large salad or even a piece of lean meat and a pile of candy bars, and they will take the candy bars. Because in the wild, fatty or sweet things are "goldmines." And I'm not sure I can think of a single natural food that is both fatty and sweet.

Last year, I saw that our "U-Bake" (a take and bake baked goods and baking supplies and ingredients store - a test of my resolve to go in there, but the spices are so cheap it's a necessary evil) was selling frosting (in bright colors no less) as "bear bait," during hunting season. Although not philosophically opposed to hunting, the idea of shooting a bear at his birthday party was the image I got. My husband explained that you can bait bears, but you cannot shoot them while you have bait out. So the bear actually comes looking for the 5 gallon drum of buttercream that was there a few days ago, and gets shot instead (without so much as a last meal). In some ways, even more drepressing than getting shot while enjoying the festive frosting.

I guess the image struck me so strongly, because I identify with the bear - I AM the bear, easily lured by temptations that have deadly consequences.

Knowing the deck is stacked against us, maybe should depress me; but instead, it makes me realize that I don't have time for self pity or self-blame. I've got to strategize. Fattening foods and inertia are the enemies (maybe even frenemies, so "good" to me at times, with such evil consequences just like the 5 gallon drums of brightly colored frosting to the bears). I can't allow myself to get lost in any emotions, I have to find strategies to defeat them.

Strategy is inherently emotionless. This is war in a sense, and I can't allow myself the luxury of loving or hating the enemy (and I am not the enemy). If I make a mistake, it doesn't matter how I feel about it, I need to find a way to prevent the mistake in the future (or at least increase the time between mistakes).

I KNOW that I make a lot of mistakes - far too many to feel completely successful, and yet I lost more than 60 lbs, almost completely guilt free. Knowing that I don't have to be perfect to succeed, I only have to be better is a huge epiphany for me. In essence I can "fail my way" to my goal. I never knew that in the four decades prior on the diet rollercoaster. I didn't know that I could pick myself, dust myself off, and keep on moving in the right direction. I really thought I was supposed to drive over the cliff after hitting a pothole, or throw myself down the staircase after tripping on one step. That's not responsibility, accountability or even guilt, that's wallowing. I do not allow wallowing anymore, because it's so counterproductive.

Well said!

How about this -- anyone who posts a confessional binge type post just write either:
1) I want someone to kick my a** for doing this
or
2) I am just looking for support, and don't want my a** kicked.

simple solution!

and P.S., I'm not a binger, never have been, but reading some of the binging posts sometimes DO make me think "what would it be like to binge".

~Choirgirl~

Because this is a support site I think we lean more towards being too nice than the "I told you so" when our friends here struggle. I think that is a good thing over all especially since we don't really know where each of us is emotionally in our journey.

That being said...

LORI BELL...

Knock the crap off! :drill:

Exactly...if you feel like a failure for one mistake in the morning, what does that do? It makes you feel like you might as well binge the rest of the day, because what the heck...you are a failure and you just proved it. It's better to get encouragement to not beat yourself up over the little mistakes, before you turn them into bigger ones. The sooner you forgive yourself and get back on track, the better.

Please don't. If everyone here was perfect and never made any mistakes (and how do we know unless you post them), then I'd feel like I don't quite fit because I'm not able to stick to my plans as well as you all do. Being able to admit our imperfection is part of the accountability we all need, and also part of the understanding we all share that we are all stumbling along on the same path to the same goal.

I just want to say that this thread has made me feel pretty emotional. I want to share with all of you how much I admire and respect the members here...so many beautiful, intelligent, and caring people here. And I keep wondering to myself, how can so many of these incredible people have issues with self-esteem that would even result in over-eating? They can't all be as unworthy as I am, right? I'm so proud of all of you for taking control (not matter how bumpy the journey) and taking back your life. Why are we, humans, so vulnerable to self-esteem issues? You know there are a lot of people who have eating disorders, or become involved in some other self-destructive act, like smoking, alcohol, drugs, gambling, promiscuity...lots of things where people go through life feeling like losers. And you know what? Because you are here fighting to be a winner? You are winners! WE are all winners. And I'm proud to be a member here.

Are you sure you were asking for permission to binge, or were you asking for understanding so you wouldn't beat yourself up over it?

Yes...that's what part of the healing of a support group is all about. To be able to confess and not hide your eating disorder any longer. How can you face a problem and deal with it if you have to contstantly hide it from everyone? Who else would you admit this to? And hiding it is the first sign of denying it.

You know what Lori? You also used this terrific resource to come clean about how you were feeling and that is nothing to be disappointed about. That is accountability.

And this is a hard lesson for many of us to learn.

Lori, you say right from the start, reading the mea culpas and reassurances are the EXCUSE you have been looking for. If you want someone to say don't binge you need to post that, not look for justifications to indulge. The post should say "help, I need a kick in the butt, I'm on the edge." You would get a dozen or more responses telling you not to go ahead. I doubt anyone would say, "oh, go ahead, you are only human." You aren't posting that because you are looking for an excuse.

Forgive folks? Enable? I don't get this. I don't need to "forgive" anyone here for a bad eating habit, they did this to themselves not to me. The only 3FC behavior that may need forgiveness is the way we relate to each other.

I do respond to what I "hear" from others. I don't believe in beating oneself up, it has consistently been a negative for me and I think in general it is self-defeating. Therefore, if I see someone going down that path I am likely to remind them that life goes on, that it was an episode or a period, and that they can move forward if they so choose. (The if you trip on a stair you don't thrown yourself down the flight lecture.)

On the other hand, if folks come across as rationalizing (and are wanting some feedback) I'll call them on it. (The recent "help me eat a cheesecake" thread comes to mind for me, I'm wondering if she managed to stick to plan.)

Ultimately though, your behavior is about you, not me. If you choose to binge and post about it I have nothing to forgive. You didn't hurt me, you hurt yourself. Generally if I am going to binge I will find an excuse, reading about others binges may give me that excuse, but I have a hard time arguing that it gives me permission to binge, and personally I am much more "triggered" by the food porn on tv, in magazines, and on others plates!

(The recent "help me eat a cheesecake" thread comes to mind for me, I'm wondering if she managed to stick to plan.)

Yes...actually. I have had two slices in a week and the only reason I ate the second slice when I did was because it didn't fit in the gallon baggie I froze the rest in. I thought I explained that post. It was an accountablitly post, to let everyone know I had the cheesecake in my house, so I couldn't eat it in secret. But it turned out it wasn't such a temptation after all and proved to myself that I'm still refraining from binging.

How tempted am I? I have only eaten 335 calories today, because I really don't feel like eating. It's almost midnight. Am I out of control? Yes...but in the wrong direction.

Lori Bell, sweetheart,
you want a kick up the behind?
sounds to me that you are doing a pretty adequate job of it yourself!

There is nothing we could possibly say to you that you haven't said to yourself, and probably with a lot less loving kindness and good intentions than we would give you.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to start keeping track of the emotional state you are in when you get the desire to binge. These things rarely come out of nowhere. And then change what you're doing.

Instead of bingeing, go for a walk, go to the gym, go to the library, go see a friend, but get out of whatever it is you are doing at that moment!!!

And most of all, love yourself a bit more. We love you, your husband loves you (and he sounds like a gem), your familiy loves you, but all that falls on deaf ears if you don't love you.

I think most people post about their binges as a sort of confession. We can confess here and know that the people reading and responding understand where we're coming from and won't judge us.

Now "PUT THE COOKIE DOWN, AND DROP AND GIVE ME 20!":D

This has been a very interesting topic. Although I have not been around long I have learned that there are threads and posters that I need to avoid. Some of those are because of the "plan" they are on, some because they just don't get that eating 2000+ calories of crap and no exercise will not help one lose weight, and many because they simply are not ready.

For me this had to be about a lifestyle change I can live with. I LOVE food so I have to find and fix foods that taste good. A perfect example is roasted brussel sprouts; who would have ever thought that not only would I eat brussel sprouts but that they would become one of my "comfort" foods. I HATE to cook and it is one of the biggest lifestyle changes I continue to work on.

For me there is no food that is off limits if I have the calories in the budget; however, not all calories are created equal and at this point in my life I choose to mostly eat foods that fuel my body and keep me feeling full. I said mostly because at least a couple times a week I eat for the sheer joy of tasting something yummy. It can be a 3 oz. cup of Ben & Jerry's, a couple dark chocolate kisses; you know... those foods that most people label as "bad".

I can't be one of those people that goes on a diet to lose the weight and then change things around when I get to maintenance. I've proven that over and over again. The only thing I plan on doing differently when I reach goal is to increase my calories.

It really has become very simple for me this time; calories in vs. calories burned equal weight gain or weight loss. Those days that I eat too many calories I don't dwell on; guilt was always a good reason to eat. I make choices that help keep me clear headed and happy; binging on anything almost always makes me cloudy and miserable.