Wow, at least this has drummed up some nice conversation!
I don't think it's wrong for me not to comment as one poster said, but quite honestly, I only comment on 10% anyway. I remember when I first looked at this site, there was a young girl that wanted to do a (wayyy long) fast, and she was shot down. Good for you guys!! (although I would bet she just got ticked and left and found someone supportive)
I think my concern is that a lot of the people that state their goals has low for their height (and I'm sorry, even allowing for ethnic differences, etc, there are still some goals that can't be healthy) is that they are driven by today's standards put out by Hollywood, etc. It is sad to me that 5' 10" women think they have to be in a size 0 or 2 to be pretty.
And you really can't judge things on this site too. My goal is 122 (I picked a number, honestly). I may think I look good there, you may think I look too fat (or too skinny).
I'll try to write more later...gotta get to work!!
Location: i am neither greek nor athenian, but a citizen of the world.
Posts: 328
"I'm sorry, even allowing for ethnic differences, etc, there are still some goals that can't be healthy"
Yes, but without seeing the person it's hard to say what they are in terms of weight. Perhaps it's safer to say there are some sizes that can't be healthy. Now, as a small-framed young woman, I'm UK size 8-10 at 105lbs (I think that's American 4-6). Now, I can concede that a five-foot or five-foot one woman might be healthy at American size two (British six I think) but I can't conceive of anyone being healthy at size zero.
Call me crazy, but I refuse to support unhealthy means to lose the weight as well.
There are many people who have unrealistic views of themselves....some women think they are thin (and wear the clothes that support it) when they are quite heavy and others continue to think they are heavy when they have lost the weight. The latter can lead to different eating disorders and unhealthy ways to "drop those last few pounds".....abusing diet pills, laxatives, simply not eating....these are very unhealthy for your body, and for me to support that just so they can meet their "goal" would be extremely irresponsible.
I've responded to amibitions such as these in the past and have been met with much resistance. Why should I continue to respond when most of the time, the well meaning posts are met with animosity and excuses?
There have been people here who I started out supporting ... offering suggestions and advice along with many other 3FCers. But it soon became obvious that they didn't want reasonable advice. Several times I've seen someone post a question and when they didn't get the answers they wanted, repost the question in another area of the forum ... as if they'll hear what they want from someone else.
At that point, I quit supporting that person. I avoid their threads, I don't answer their questions, and I move on to someone who is going to be receptive. It's not worth the time and frustration to me to "support" someone who doesn't really want real support - they just want to hear what they want to hear.
Supporting unhealthy weight loss "because this is a weight loss support site," makes no sense to me. That would make this a pro-eating disorder site, not a weight loss support site.
For support to be valid, it has to truly represent the feelings of the giver. I don't want anyone supporting any of my goals that they disagree with - that's not support that's lying. If I couldn't trust that for the most part, people are giving their honest opinions here, I would leave. At least in the real world, I can use body language and inflection as clues to whether a person is lying to me. Online I usually just have to take their words at face value.
Sometimes our posts here can get "too honest," in that the cues that keep us from telling everyone what we think, as soon as we think it - are gone. We have to take that extra step. When DO we step in and when do we keep our opinons to ourselves? There's no one answer that fits everyone and every situation. Making comments on people's decisions down to the minute detail - not generally productive. Not commenting on dangerous intentions or behavior? That can be irresponsible too. We're a REAL community here, and we really care about folks, so we have to use a similar level of care we would in our daily in-person lives, but just like "real life" there are rarely one-size-fits-all solutions, and attempts to make them usually backfire.
Hmmmm....I'm moving this thread to Weightloss Support since it really doesn't apply just to South Beach.
Good thread. I bite my tongue a lot when I see very low goals.
Location: i am neither greek nor athenian, but a citizen of the world.
Posts: 328
Quote:
Supporting unhealthy weight loss "because this is a weight loss support site," makes no sense to me. That would make this a pro-eating disorder site, not a weight loss support site.
I agree 100%, but I believe that unhealthy weight loss is more reliably judged by people's attitude and methods than by a number. Unhealthy weight loss = laxative abuse, starvation, vomiting, and/or general obsession. I usually refrain from comment on people's stats, but if I ever saw someone say "I'm really happy cos I took laxatives and lost 2lb" I would definitely have to object. Vocally. Or e-vocally, as it were.
Wow, at least this has drummed up some nice conversation!
I think my concern is that a lot of the people that state their goals has low for their height (and I'm sorry, even allowing for ethnic differences, etc, there are still some goals that can't be healthy) is that they are driven by today's standards put out by Hollywood, etc. It is sad to me that 5' 10" women think they have to be in a size 0 or 2 to be pretty.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Everyone chooses their goal for different reasons. Sometimes they may be totally clueless as to what a healthy range is (or where to look to find out) and just throw out a number because they saw someone's picture in the Star who they think looks great and their bio says they are 5'10" and weigh 110 lbs; or they may have picked a number they thought they were happy at in the past (raises hand).
I do think we need to be a little bit careful with how we respond to someone who we feel is striving for a *too low* goal weight though. I think most of us would agree that an awful lot of people with weight issues also have trouble with self esteem and if we just jump in and are overly critical from the get-go we risk making them feel even worse as in "I'm too stupid to even know what I should weigh". We might unintentionally send them off to some other forum that will support less than healthy habits. Certainly, if someone is already in a healthy range and asking for help to get to one that is considered underweight, there is nothing wrong with pointing that out in a gentle manner but, if someone is starting out at a fairly high weight, and we give them a chance (and they stick around 3FC long enough to learn some new things) they might decide for themselves that they don't need to go quite as low as they first thought (raises hand again ).
I also try to remember that, as much as we all like giving and receiving support here, none of us is obligated to respond to, support, or give advice to others. So sometimes, if I think someone is being unhealthy but think that opinion is best kept to myself, I remind myself that the best policy may be to not say anything at all, positive or negative. At the end of the day, we're obligated only to ourselves and our own goals.
The issue of BMI charts being the end-all is interesting, though...plenty of us have goal weights in the technically overweight category (myself included) and I'd never criticize someone for having a goal that was out of normal bounds in THAT direction. Maybe that's because a formerly obese person that gets to "overweight" is statistically likely to be healthier than they were before, whereas someone who was overweight and gets to the "underweight" category, again statistically, may not be?
I am over 5'8 but not quite 5'9 and my 'goal' is 150, which could change, depending on how I feel at a higher weight, or maybe a slightly lower weight. But I recognize people of my height trying to be 110 or so is rather ridiculous and probably unhealthy. Sometimes, though, I don't think these people are borderliner eating disorders, just unrealistic because they don't know exactly what that sort of weight would look or feel like. They could get down to 160 and feel great and feel thin and realize that 110 or 120 was underweight.
I used to think I wanted to be like 120, like the hypothetical poster mentioned in TwynnB's original post, but after doing my research, realized that 120 is not for me, and even when I was at my thinnest, I wasn't 120. I didn't have a scale then, but I'm sure I was not 120, I would have appeared emaciated. So I can understand how some of these people are just being unrealistic and don't yet realize it.
It's scary though, the others who do fall into the category of thinking that they're not good enough unless they weigh x amount of weight at x height, and there has been a person or two I can think of, recently, speaking of how little they've been consuming and how they don't feel hungry. When people explained to them it's probably because their metabolism is slowing down and going into fat preservation mode.... they kind of just left the conversation and deleted their comments and I don't want to see anyone, anyone at all, feeling like they have to starve themselves to lose and be healthy.
That's not the case. We do have to eat to be healthy.
Not everyone is on this website for the right reasons but it's hard to weed them all out, some are just merely unrealistic.
Anyway, just my two cents, and TwynnB, this was an excellent discussion thread!
I think it's good to keep in mind that the BMI, although a useful rough tool, is just that--rough! It does not take into consideration gender differences, race differences, body build, etc. I think it's quite possible for someone who has a delicate bone structure to come in as underweight on the BMI chart but still be healthy at that weight.
A case in point is my partner. When she was in college, she was about 5'5-1/2" and weighed 100 lbs. She was not an eating disordered person in any way--she was just very delicately built. She also never dieted, never tried to keep her weight down! Now, many years later, she weighs 130, a normal weight according to BMI. She eats pretty much anything she wants, including a lot of carbohydrates (to my way of thinking. ).
When I see someone setting what looks like a low goal weight, I usually ask them how they arrived at that number. Sometimes their doctor set it for them, sometimes it was what they weighed long ago, sometimes they just pulled it out of the air. So then we can discuss that.
The one thing I try not to do is jump on someone right away. It helps to remember that we don't get the whole story in a single post.
Mandalinn, I was curious and checked out your profile based on Chickybird's comment, and was surprised! But pleasantly so, as I think what California did was awesome. It really is a beautiful picture, and congratulations! CA rocks!
I agree with all the posters who say you can't judge someone on their height and weight goal. Everyone has different body types and people of the same height just weigh differently. Some people have more muscle than others and so on.
Lets all just agree that this is a diet support forum. We must all support each other and our goals WHILST we are achieving that goal through HEALTHY dieting and exercise. We do not support anorexia, bulimia, or any form of harmful diet.
Don't get upset with someone if their 5'10 aiming to be 110 lbs.. if their eating HEALTHY, exercising and all that jazz.. most likely their body won't let their weight get that low and by then that person will be in the shape she or he wants to be and be happy. If for some freak reason it is that low, then that's how their body was built and as long as their healthy, it should be okay.
We here to help people through their struggles and help find their happiness and confidence.
I understand what you mean because I used to think that way myself. Not necessarily that "I don't want to support" but more in terms of "sheesh, that is a REALLY low weight for somebody who is x'xx'' tall". But that has changed over the months since I have been on this forum. The final goal is just a number and it really is hard to judge whether it is a healthy target or not (again, depending on many factors, e.g. is that person a marathon runner? or perhaps is she planning to become one, etc.). We really are all different and even though the weight may be the same the shape / body type can be very different. I do remember that in much leaner days [I am talking like 25 years ago] people always seemed to very surprised at how much I weighed - it was always a higher number than they would have expected based on my appearance (and I have never been very toned or athletic). So I suppose one can presume I am of a heavy build or I have heavy bones or whatever is the correct term.
When I was setting my goal weight, I had NO idea how much it should be because I have been chubby for quite a few years. All I remembered that I was about 2 pounds higher when I arrived to Canada 17 years ago. I set the goal to 175 with the intention to re-evaluate it once I make it there.
I, too, have been surprised at times to see people's goals (I mean people of comparable height) to be lower than mine, but that is fine. There is one example I am going to mention - Josephine aka Tyler Durden. I do know her height and goal weight because we often post in the same exercise forum - she is 5'10" and her goal weight is 140. I am measly 5'8" and barely a half (I was crushed when I recently found out that I am actually NOT full 5'9" and I haven't adjusted my profile yet) and I think that once I make it to 175, I will set another goal of 160 and then again I will reevaluate it once I am there.
That would still make me 20 lbs heavier than Jo and she is taller {I hope Jo is ok with me quoting her specs here }. But I also saw her pics and I know she runs long distances, so why not.
Maybe it also has something to do with some people (like myself) preferring to set a bit more conservative goals while other people ..... boldly go where no one has gone before (to quote Jean-Luc Picard ).
Also, I often wondered what part of one's psyche makes people eat ... and then purge. I often thought "I would have never done that to myself". But you know what, I also realized that I come with my own personal problems (my father really messed me up for life, although he never sexually abused me he was extremely controlling and as a kid, I was beaten up on a daily basis) so purging actually may pale up in comparison with the problems I bring into my relationship with men and other people may think the same "Why on earth would she say/do this, act like this?". We each carry our own cross.
So 3FC adjust my thinking in lot more respects than just only re weight loss and healthy eating!
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