Where do we draw the line between...
 

Supporting all women and their different body types, and supporting unhealthy weight loss/maintenance regimens?
This is not a criticism of this forum or of anyone in particular. It is just meant as a point of discussion, because I truly don't understand.
The reason I ask this is that there has been HUGE controversy on this forum with the Jenny Craig/Is Kirstie Alley telling the truth? and Is Kiera Knightley too thin? questions. Inevitably, a comment will pop up where we are all advised to "support all women and their different body types".
I agree with this concept of support, but do we in turn support those who wish to attain an underweight BMI? Or those who are maintaining an unhealthy BMI?
Where do we draw the line? I mean, there is no end of discussion about the habits of those at the Brookhaven Obesity Clinic or on the TLC shows featuring morbidly-obese people. BUT, it does not seem to be acceptable when conversation turns to an equally unhealthy population featuring those who are severely underweight, or who aspire to be such.
Just wondering....no offense or criticism is intended. I just think this is an interesting thing to discuss.
:)

Hi Maya

I think finding the right balance is important. I think it must be hard when some people's goal weights are higher than other people's starting weights. With so many on this website, there is a huge amount of diversity.

That said, I think 3FC does a pretty good job of being balanced. When people come in here trying to be unhealthily small, members usually jump in to offer healthy suggestions, with moderators not too far behind.

I will be interested to see what others have to say.

A fine question. I find it quite hard, to be honest, so I try (TRY, mind you, not always successfully! :eek:) not to say anything if I can't be supportive. A kind of 'vote with my fingers on the keyboard - or lack thereof...'

I haven't done so well today :o

Thanks for raising a good point :)

Heather :D

You bring up a good topic. Personally, I don't care about what size people are so as long as theyrehealthy. Yes, scarily thin or fat may look like their habits contributed to it, but how do we know? I can't ever judge someone..

I personally would support everyone's goals, but hope that everyone has a healthy approach to it. Sometimes, I must admit, its hard being on 3FC and seeing some members strive for less-than healthy BMIs. So, so SOOOO hard to say something like, "hope you reach your goal!" when improperly done. I've seen way to many pro-ana posts here, and the threads usually get closed. I know this is a support forum full of resources to lose weight and to be healthy, but sometimes I think that could be very well abused. And when threads supporting unhealthy regimens are closed, I'm constantly wondering why the users even post them if all they'll ever get are comments saying that they need professional help (which they don't want). It's hard for anyone like me whose experienced self-destructive behavior in the past and now, as a grown woman, seeing younger women constantly striving to be thin, posting here but not wanting any help at all.

I, too, think the moderators do a great job of keeping this forum online. I don't envy them at all. It seems to be that if someone wants to pursue an unhealthy diet (hence the 3fatchicks diet reviews and recommendations) or get to an unhealthy weight, they are really effectively dealt with.
BUT, it seems to me that if someone actually PRESENTS at an unhealthy weight, someone will comment that we should accept all body types and individuals as they are.
This just seems to be a bit of a disconnect, that's all...

Everyone has a different body frame/type and 128lbs will look different me than it would on even another 5'4"-er because my body is uniquely mine.

That being said; we do NOT promote ANY unhealthy lifestyle choices at 3FC. This site is a support system for healthy living. If someone wanted to weigh 88lbs and was 5'10" (and was not a troll) we would be seriously concerned and worried and tell her so.

That's how it is here. We are a tolerant lot; different strokes for different folks and all that. But we also only support healthy choices, because we are a caring bunch and don't want to see anyone doing anything to hurt their bodies. So if there is something odd or extreme posted, people here do pipe up. :)

Hello!

Please review the "Agree to Disagree" Sticky at the top of this forum page. :) What it basically says is that advice is best given if the poster asks for it. The reason is to prevent lots of people jumping on a poster who hasn't really asked for comments or advice. For awhile, 3FC was seeing too much of that--posters were feeling attacked. :(

Even so, supporting folks in their efforts does NOT mean saying "I hope you reach your goal" if they have an absurd goal! That would be silly!

If someone were to say, "I want to weigh 88 pounds and I'm 5'10"," a moderator or admin might respond by saying "That seems dangerously underweight, and you might want to rethink that goal. Read more on our site." Or they might be referred to the Chicks In Control forum for better feedback.

Celebrity bashing is also discouraged. Why say rude, mean things about a celebrity if you wouldn't say the same things to a stranger on the street? :no:

The comment about supporting all women and their body types really refers to the fact that some folks on this site will have 20 pounds to lose, and some will have 200 pounds to lose. In either case, or anywhere in between or beyond, it is still a struggle! And we all know that! So that's really about showing respect to others.

One can be respectful and supportive without giving blanket approval to what someone is doing.

Also, remember that mods and admins are just people, like everyone else on here. Everyone has their own opinions and biases, and sometimes mods make mistakes. That's why it's nice to have the forum rules to refer to! :)

I hope this helps to clarify things. We'll always have posts that are controversial now and then. :dizzy:

Jay

I assume that people who post goals which are not attainable in a healthy way either have a disorder which is beyond my expertise or are simply fishing for compliments from people telling them they are just perfect the way they are.

Either way, I now simply choose not to comment at all.

Hi!
Great discussion!
Thanks to everyone who posts -- I hope to hear more opinions, too.
:)

This is a great thread :)

I think the mods above explained our policy well. We also appreciate that you all understand how difficult moderating can be sometimes. It really IS hard to know where to draw the line sometimes. Sometimes the line is fuzzy because each situation is unique, and we have to make judgment calls. We're not always right, but we do our best :) And it's the same way for the members. Sometimes our topics cross the border, and it's not always easy to know when to stop. It's a team effort to keep things where they need to be.

I confess!

I am "one of those". But you probably knew that already ;-)

You're right, I didn't really come here to get support for weightloss. I wasn't overweight to being with, hadn't been for 6 years, was right in the middle of my healthy BMI range in fact.

Since then I dropped 10-11lbs through life trauma rendering me unable to eat, but once that blew over I deliberately kept up that loss, and I'm shrinking, and I don't intend to stop until I reach my goal, which some people havn't and wouldn't like.

I'd personally say *don't support anyone's ideals of an *anorexic* weight, BMI 17.5 or below. 17.5-18.5 is still underweight, sure, but I think thats more a personal choice category than seriously ill ...physically. Although of course, the mental problems may abound.

But we're all adults. Or mostly, or should be here. And as long as we arnt rude/illegal, should use this site as we see fit.

I've stopped posting my weights etc and I'm trying to kick a few eating disorder attitudes etc. I've succeeded in breaking a few habits, but my core is still pretty anorexic.

But actually, I'm not sure thats relevant to this forum...EDs are mental illnesses, losing weight in itself isn't that.

It makes me sound sad, but aside from pro-ana sites..which I'm AVOIDING..this is one of the few places I've felt supported and accepted for whatever I want to be.

I love this place. I don't pass judgement on others and they don't to me.

I did go buy some skinny jeans etc today and bought other clothes, and in 2 hrs or so I didn't get revolted by my reflection. I think, very slowly, I AM making progress..its a winding route.

Complicated post, sorry

emily
xxx

There's also a difference between supporting the poster his or herself, and supporting their plans or their goals. They don't necessarily have to go hand in hand. I do think it is possible to be supportive of a person, while not totally agreeing with their goals or their methods.

I think that what is important to remember is that losing weight affects different people in different ways. I've had many of my friends comment on my "warped body image" and "obssessive eating rituals". What some people see as normal coping mechanisms other people see as obssessive. When it comes to BMI as a reflection of health, no two people are alike, so how can we make a chart to say who is healthy and who is not? If there are professional athletes that are falsely dubbed obese by these charts doesn't it make sense that it can work the other way too where someone who is not really underweight, but built to be very slight, would show up as falsely underweight? Just some food for thought.

Originally Posted by CousinRockingChair:
this is one of the few places I've felt supported and accepted for whatever I want to be.

I love this place. I don't pass judgement on others and they don't to me.

Emily, I just want to say I think it's so wonderful that you do feel welcome here. Sometimes anorexia is a tough thing for people to understand, so it's nice that you're here to chime in with some perspective about it, and I hope that you can get some good perspective from others here as well. I've had a few bouts with anorexic behaviors in my past, as recently as 2004, but I've never had an extended problem with it. I have felt the pull of it before, though, and I know it's got to be really difficult to get over. I wish you all the best with your efforts. From your posts, you seem like a strong person.

EMILY :hug:

See! You're all lovely! THATS why I like it here

thank you <3

emily
xxx

Something about this thread just clicked for me this morning. I've read some of it a few times but this morning ... I think ... I think ...

freiamaya is noticing that when an overweight person comes to the site and asks for help ... we tell them things that will advance weight loss. When an underweight person comes along we give advice toward a healthier body image. Seemingly, a two-faced approach.

However, when you weed through the details, most folks are advised to eat healthier and get some exercise, right? to appreciate the machine they've been given and work with it.

Do we heartily embrace an overweight person who is just like us? probably.
Do we tippytoe around suspected anorexics? probably. But they can be delicate folks. And ... they're unknown to us, frightening in a way. I hesitate to give stern advice until I see that they will stick with 3FC and maybe we can help.

SusanB makes an interesting point about suspected anorexics being foreign to some of us.

I myself have been on both ends of the spectrum: I've been anorexic, ED-NOS, AND 20 pounds overweight! So... for me to openly criticise a suspected anorexic would be rather hypocritical, and as a former anorexic myself, I know the mindset never goes away, even if the habits change.

However, I do find it rather difficult to be supportive of anyone who is aiming for a severely underweight BMI, just because it is unhealthy to achieve and most likely difficult to maintain. If you look at the goals of all the people on this forum, we all have different ideas of what a sexy, healthy weight might be. Some of us just want to be in the healthy BMI range. Others want to be on the lowest possible end of that range. Others want to be overweight and not obese. And some of us go by mirrors and sizes, as opposed to scales.

Some of us lose weight for health reasons. Others lose weight for vanity. I support both - mine is vanity at the moment, as I am at a healthy weight and in great shape. I honestly support anyone's weight loss endeavors as long as they are healthy, reasonable, and will make the person doing them happier and more comfortable. :)

Originally Posted by freiamaya:
I, too, think the moderators do a great job of keeping this forum online. I don't envy them at all. It seems to be that if someone wants to pursue an unhealthy diet (hence the 3fatchicks diet reviews and recommendations) or get to an unhealthy weight, they are really effectively dealt with.
BUT, it seems to me that if someone actually PRESENTS at an unhealthy weight, someone will comment that we should accept all body types and individuals as they are.
This just seems to be a bit of a disconnect, that's all...

Well, I can only speak for myself, but when someone presents themselves here at an unhealthy weight-how I react depends on their situation. While MOST people are overweight because of too many calories and too little activity, and MOST people are underweight because of too little calories and being more avctive, there are exceptions to that rule.

If someone is underweight, how I would react depends on why they are underweight. My roomate when I was about 20 years old fluctuated between 85-95 pounds at about 5'3". She was scarily underweight, and was basically swimming in size 2 jeans. (At the time they didn't have 0's like they do now.)
A lot of people probably assumed she was anorexic, but the fact of the matter was she had digestive problems-extreme IBS, and there were only a handful of foods that she could eat that wouldn't cause her body to purge itself within an hour of eating.

My mother's weight fluctuates depending on how much stress she is under. She can be from a size 5 to a 12, depending on her workload, etc. Stress causes her to not eat. She doesn't have anorexic tendencies, she simply doesn't eat when she is stressed out.

So, that is why I am personally against celebrity bashing, etc. because we don't always know *why* someone is so thin. They could be filming 2 movies at the same time, going through a breakup with a partner, or what have you. It isn't always anorexia, and we shouldn't assume that it is. (There are some cases, however, such as with the Olsen twins, etc. where being in an eating disorder center has been confirmed). I am basically against assuming someone has one if it hasn't been confirmed, or tabloids calling someone fat if they gained 7 pounds. ;)

As far as members here go, their current weight doesn't equate to anorexia to me-it is their posts, their exercise or eating habits, things they might say, etc. that lead me to believe someone might have a problem.

I am accepting, and understanding (my aunt has been an anorexic/bulimic for over 20 years), but I also know that at 3FC, we have to tread lightly, and realize that we are not equipped to deal with the emotional issues here. There are other websites more equipped to do so.

I don't think it is just about accepting everyone as they are-be it fat or thin-but more about keeping 3FC a place for learning HEALTHY habits through diet and exercise, whether the person wants to lose, gain, or maintain their weight.

I don't have issue with individuals who present at a low weight and ask for advice to optimize their health. We absolutely should be supportive, for sure. The same goes for those at the higher weights who, again, want to optimize their health.
As for commenting about celebrities, well, I'm just not sure. Those in the public eye are choosing to be there, and along with the wealth and fame comes public scrutiny. At the end of the day, celebrities truly are marketing a product - themselves. You see this with announced appearances to maximize paparazzi exposure, diversified marketing of perfumes with their names on it, clothing lines, endorsements, appearances, etc. My concern is not that there are ultra-thin celebrities out there. My concern is that the ultra-thin has become the norm, and the standard for impressionable people especially our young has shifted. When Victoria Beckham gets a tv show, during which she asks the cameras to shoot from certain angles to make her look "taller and thinner" (she is around 5'5" and weighs less than 100 lbs), some comment may be appropriate. I don't feel that this is, in any way, "celebrity bashing". To me, celebrity bashing is impugning the character of a celebrity for being simply a celebrity. I think it is possible to have compassion for another, celebrity or not, without supporting that individual's pursuit of an unhealthy lifestyle. And if we, as a general public, are quiet about the idolization of these ultra-skinny role models, aren't we complicit in their idolization? Are we abrogating our responsibility in this matter? How will society change if no one speaks up?
I'm not trying to be rude or confrontational or anything -- these are just huge questions that keep popping up in my mind, and I think they might be really interesting topics of discussion!
Sure is an interesting question! :)

The sort of celebrity bashing I was referring to is the kind where everyone bashes a celeb for being thin, and assuming it is an ED right off the bat.

I agree with the fact that celebrities are selling themselves-and promoting themselves through their work, perfume and makeup ads, etc. but at the same time, I think that they *should* be allowed to sit in their backyard with a privacy fence in a bathing suit or sweatpants without helicopters flying over their house to get a photo of them in it so the Enquirer can do a cover story on how fat they are. ;) I think there is a line that should be drawn, you know? :D Everyone deserves some privacy.

There is a huge contradiction in our society in that regard. People complain about celebrities being too thin, and then are the first to buy the trash magazines that show a celebrity who has apparently gotten fat. Covers poking fun at Britney or Kirstie or whoever in an unflattering outfit looking chunky sells magazines.

Heck, I'd want to be 100 pounds, too, if every time I walked out my front door I had 20 guys with cameras trying to get a photo of me looking fat. ;)

It is enough, actually, to give someone an ED that didn't have one. Think about how we all feel when we are, or simply feel fat. Now think about 20 people following you around all day to take photos of it.

I don't know about you all, but I think this is probably one of the best threads I've read in a long time. Thanks for all the input and debate!!!! I know I'm thinking a bit differently about things, that's for sure! :hug:

THANKS so much for this thread, FREIMAYA ...

Recently, I'm having a problem with responding to those who ask for our advice and opinions, but who get offended by our replies. I'm just trying to be supportive and compassionate to that PERSON; I may not agree with everything they say or do either. To me, it doesn't matter if they have 20 lbs or 200 lbs to lose, or are underweight; we are all here for the same reason: which is ... SUPPORT!

ADVICE is just that ... a suggestion or my opinion (I never intend to offend or criticize anyone); so, one can take it or leave it. My issue is with those that call themselves abusive names (hardass, piggy, lazy, and so on); and maybe I'm just too sensitive from being the victim of such name-calling in the past, but I find that very sad.

So now, I'm going to be very cautious about who and how I reply to those who ask questions. We all have to realize that if we ask questions, that we may not like everything others say; and we may not always agree (agree to disagree); BUT, I THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO BE HELPFUL!

Sorry, if I'm a little off topic, but I think this is all related. Yes, this is a very interesting topic and thread; thanx again! :hug: ROSEBUD :hug:

Originally Posted by rockinrobin:
There's also a difference between supporting the poster his or herself, and supporting their plans or their goals. They don't necessarily have to go hand in hand. I do think it is possible to be supportive of a person, while not totally agreeing with their goals or their methods.

I think that's an excellent point. Unless somebody's plan is seriously dodgy I won't comment on it. There are a lot of people here whose goal weights still them overweight, sometimes even obese, and some who are aiming for officially underweight but live and let live I say - unless it's dangerous.