just can't do the program anymore? Not that the program is bad - i believe and will tell anyone it's a great program...but for me - i just can't do the actual "math/points" anymore...

I'm NOT quitting eating right - cuz that's ingrained in my head now. I'm NOT quitting exercising - cuz i'm addicted...but I've been on WW for 4 years now - and yes, I credit the program with my initial 60 pound loss and also credit the program with teaching me all the tools I've learned and needed to change my lifestyle...but I think i've finally gotten to the point where I'm sick of the "obsession"...

meaning - i'm tired of being OBSESSED with points. As in - I'm allowed 24 points a day which is ONLY 1200 calories...and by the end of my work day (8:30 a.m. - 5 p.m.) - i've already eating 20 points and if i DON'T end up going to the gym - I go home and while I DO eat a "healthy" dinner most nights (my boyfriend eats healthy and cooks most of our dinners) - it's def. more than a 4 points a dinner...and so i end up feeling guilty because i've not "followed the points system" to a "T" and my problem?...I'm a perfectionist.

If I don't eat EXACTLY the # of points i've been told to eat - i'm the kind that'll go and say, "ah screw it...i've already gone 1 point over may as well make it 20. which I know makes no sense at all - I've always tried to remember the thing about the flat tire..."all because one tire is flat, do you 'fix' it by blowing out the other 3?" And so, believe me, I KNOW everything that any and all of you could sit here and lecture me about because I've lectured others about that myself!! :-P

But I'm finally getting to the point where I know what TO eat and what NOT to eat. I DON'T eat fried foods (for the most part anyways...) because I've finally realized that fried foods and my system don't like each other...and yeah it may TASTE good, but it will NOT feel good later...so I've stopped eating a lot of fried foods.

I also have tried to cut down on my sugar/sweets intake. I DON'T hit the vending machines...I DON'T eat a lot of junk food.

I still look at nutrition facts and will ALWAYS count the points in my head due to fiber/fat/calories and KNOW whether or not it's a good choice...but I don't NEED to write everything down.

I don't drink pop...maybe once a week IF that. I actually PREFER water. Pop dehydrates me and makes me hungrier...so unless I'm out at a resteraunt (which, again is rare - maybe once or twice a week, IF that...)

And as far as my usual day goes...i honestly DO stay at or under about 30 points a day normally.


But does anyone else know where I'm coming from? I mean, considering that I actually hit lifetime and 160 pounds in June of '04...and kept that off for a bit and i've ONLY gained back 25 pounds in 3 years (that's also meaning i've gained/lost 10 pounds here and there going between 170/180/backto 170/back to 180...) my problem is i gain weight extremely easily...but i know that's also due to life changes and stress...whereas i'm finally in a great relationship and have my career and finances in order...i have no reason at all TO eat unhealthy.

But I DO eat healthy and I LEAD a healthy lifestyle. I don't know - I almost sorta feel though as if in order to lose weight, i HAVE to do what i know works - and that's WW. however - being sick of counting points...the whole points thing ALMOST just to me - almost seems like a food obsession kind of eating disorder.

I'm just wondering if there's anyone else out there in my boat...and not even necisarily WW specifically but anyone who's changed their habits to a more healthy lifestyle but can't follow the actual "structured" program that they were used to anymore.

anyone?

you are th perfect candidate for the ww core plan. you should check it out. and i hate counting points also.....not to metion i have to tweak the program to suit myself because less is not more with me. if i don't eat enough, i don't loose weight. i've been eating all my flex points latley, that seems to work out . and i will never maintain my weight with points. i'll maintain it by the whole listening to my body thing, and stepping on a scale once a week. check out core!

I have looked at core - and for the most part, i DO eat core...but i don't want to count the flex points i use for my bread (always high fiber) or my tortillas (again, 1 a day - and high fiber)

and I do still portion everything - but for example, i use a half cup of WW cereal with my yogurt for the extra fiber and the crunch to make my yogurt less boring...but i don't want to count that stuff either. And that's the other thing...my yogurt is flavored so it's not considered core - and i prefer the low fat sour cream or cottage cheese to the Fat Free (ick).

we do eat all the leanest cuts of beef/meat and eat a lot of chicken and fish - but even though our dinners are healthy - i'd say about 9/10's healthy...for example last night he made blackened tilapia...and instead of flour (neither of us are a fan of cooking with flour and don't even have any in the apt.) he coated it with bread crumbs instead.

I don't know. All I do know is that I DO eat healthy for the most part (yes, admittedly, i splurge maybe once a week / saturdays or whatnot...) but when i DO - for example if i DO eat a pizza or some ice cream, it's only one or 2 slices instead of the 5 or 6 i USED to eat and it's a SMALL instead of the LARGE i'd get ice-cream wise...(ie, i went to dairy queen last week and got a small sundae instead of a large).

I guess it's just so hard to get the points system OUT of MY system as the "only" way to lose weight...or the fact that i HAVE to follow a structured diet to lose weight. I KNOW it's possible to do it on my own - I just have to be conscious of what, when, and how much i eat. oh yeah, and of course keep my exercise habit!! :-P

You're going to find a lot of people out there that feel like you do.....but not necessarily feeling that way toward WW--feeling that way toward whatever program they've been on for a long time. Perhaps what you need to do is change it up. You have a solid knowledge of what to eat and what to avoid. You've made the lifestyle change and you'll probably always keep track of those points in your head. But what about trying something different for a month or two--just to change it up a bit? There are so many different plans out there. Do a little research and see what fits for you. It could be counting calories or the SouthBeach diet or the Fiber35 diet or even Atkins. Good luck to you!!

If it were me, I would take a little time to experiment. You've learned a lot about eating healthy, correct portion size, the importance of activity, etc. - can you give yourself some time to take those skills and see how you do without counting? Keep an eye on the scale, and reassess if the scale starts to move the wrong way. The other option is to do your own modified version of Core, and count only the points for the "unhealthy" extras (such as white bread, sweets, or whatever) and not count the stuff that you know is very healthy and that you don't eat to excess? See how it goes. As long as you're monitoring yourself closely, you should be OK to experiment a little.

I'm not on WW, but I did do the program for a time (I ultimately found the program for me was eating whole foods and counting calories), and my only problem with the Core program was some of the rules - the new snack rules, for example, seem silly to me. I think the rules for the program are a bit general....certain foods are "non Core" because of their potential to either trigger a binge or be eaten to excess, but that's a highly individual thing. For myself, flavoured yogurt has never been and never will be a binge food - if I was following Core, I wouldn't personally take points for yogurt. Does that make sense? At the end of the day, you're accountable to yourself - if you know that you're eating healthy, not eating too much of the things that aren't so great, then I wouldn't really sweat the details provided you're still seeing the results you want.

I've done WW in the past, and I completely know what you mean. Great program, but it gives me "diet mentality" after a while, and 1 point over used to often trigger a binge. And I know not everyone feels this way, but I don't consider a diet or really structured plan to be "real life" or "normal eating". (NB - not criticizing those who do feel that way - each to his own, of course. This is just my personal opinion!) My ultimate goal is just to learn to eat everything in moderation, listen to my body, eat when I'm hungry, and learn to adjust portion sizes in order to maintain my (eventual) weight.

I'm now a firm believer in not dieting, but am more or less doing phase 1 of Bob Greene's Best Life program. It gives some structure, but lets you have the responsibility of making healthy choices and listening to your body. Weight loss is slow (see ticker!), but it's happening. Best of all, I've not been tempted to binge, which is priority #1 for me.

I guess what I'm saying is, it sounds like you've learned a lot from following WW, and maybe you're ready to try "flying on your own" for a bit.

Yeah. That's it in a nutshell. It IS a fantastic program...but it IS all about that "diet mentality. I think that when I first started the program I NEEDED that structure more than anything...but now that I KNOW what to do and how to live a healthy lifestyle, the thought of following a "diet" makes me WANT to binge ... and absolutely - 1 point over is a binge trigger - which makes no sense cuz there's the 35 flex points! lol. but it's like - and i think i said this in my first post here...but i work from 8:30 - about 5 or 6 (depends on OT availabilty) then i go to the gym around 5:45 / 6:45 or so...and I eat dinner around 8.

Anyways - during work I eat 3 meals - breakfast around 8:45 / 9. (usually a cottage cheese doubler and a breakfast burrito (high fiber tortilla and either egg beaters with 1 slice low fat cheese or a low fat apple gouda sausage)- in terms of points - this comes to 6 total) or i'll do oatmeal with better n' peanut butter & jelly.

for lunch #1 around 11:30 or noon i have a ham and cheese sandwich on high fiber bread (6 points) with some raw vegees.

for lunch #3 around 2:30 or 3 I have a 5 or 6 point lean cuisine meal and a yogurt with some WW cereal.

and, again, all i drink is water. or tea or coffee.

but...by the endo of the work day - that's 6 points + 6 points + 8 points right there that's 20...

so after i hit the gym - even adding a few activity points - that's ONLY 7 points for dinner which is NOT going to cover even a "healthy" FILLING dinner.

So really i've got to ALLOW myself the HEALTHY foods and KNOW that it's OK to eat more than 1200 calories a day (which is the equivalent of 24 points). however, still use portion control...high fiber, low fat, low calorie - limit junk - get my dairy - get my water...

plus, i DO get a half hour or more of cardio in every day.

i dunno...i guess it's just gonna be hard to honestly do the whole "healthy lifestyle" thing on my own WITHOUT an actual "structure" and just rely on what i've learned and NOT go back to my old habits.

I do WW (not the meetings, just online) and have for about 3 years. I haven't gotten sick of counting points (yet!) but I think I just need that structure (or counting calories, either way). I plan on journaling for the rest of my life. I use ALL my flex points and activity points so that may make a difference for me.

I know what you mean about being obsessed but I was obsessed before with thinking of all the bad food I was eating and how disgusting I looked, etc. so I guess it's just a different (healthier, I hope) obsession.

You should just stop for awhile and see how it goes for you. If you are able to maintain then there is no reason you need to keep doing it. Or just count calories & decide after trial & error what is a good calorie limit for you each day. Good luck

You could switch to counting calories and give yourself a bigger range -- that might help that tendency to believe you've "blown it" when you miss by a point or two. I still count points, simply because I'm used to doing that instead of calories and I'm good at estimating them. I see what you mean about it getting old, but I give myself a range and I zigzag them so I don't always feel locked in to that 24 number. It still works, and if and when it stops I'll try something else. If you're tired of counting in general, that's a different animal. I can certainly see that too. I'm just kind of terrified of stopping counting because I don't feel like I'm ready to lose that structure. If I stop counting I worry that I'll go back to my old habits.

It just is that old "diet mentality" that I HAVE to be following SOME sort of structured plan (or "diet") in order to lose weight - which of course is still my goal - i've got 25 pounds to get back down to where I was...and I guess it's just scary to think that if I DON'T have a "structured plan" it's almost like a "free-for-all" when I KNOW it's NOT.

I'm afraid of going into the cafe at work - seeing that crack brownie they sell and think to myself..."well, i'm NOT "on" weight watchers anymore...i don't have to "worry" about the points - so it's "ok"...go ahead and eat it."

which of course, i KNOW better. but it's SOOO easy to do that.

and, unfortunately, I'm one of those people who gains weight VERY easily. which is why I HAVE to watch what I eat and buy the lower calorie / lower fat items while grocery shopping...

and, again, luckily i LOVE exercising - however, at the same time, it's VERY easy to say, "ah forget it, i'm tired. i don't wanna go tonight" and one turns into two - 2 into 4 ...etc...ya know?

it's just frustrating. cuz another thing i've realized...i HAVE to eat at LEAST 4 - 5 times a day. and as far as points go - that's only 5 or 6 points a meal which is NOT honestly feasable. and i think it's because i've done WW for SOOO long that if i DO try to do something different that i don't know whether it'll work for me or not, it's scary to think, "well, i know WHAT works, but i'm sick of it...so i'm trying something new and we'll HOPE this works..." and if it doesn't i've failed. i'm not good at failing. lol.

just frustrating i guess.

I completely understand - it took me a looooong time to let go of the diet mentality, and even longer to finally get the courage to give this a try without a specific "program". I was scared to death!! One one hand, I felt I needed that structure, but on the other - I was SO resentful of it, too. I just wanted to shift the focus from being so obsessed about food to being more normal about food.

I do still think that you've got a bit of room here to just test yourself a little. You'll never feel confident in your ability to NOT scarf that crack brownie unless you get the chance to prove it to yourself. Worst case scenario is you choose and eat the brownie. That's not great - but it's one brownie, and some VERY useful information about whether or not you're ready to fly solo these days. You never know until you try.

Why don't you just give yourself a week to do it on your own? If you maintain (or even lose!), great, keep going. If you have a rough week, well, it's not going to be too much damage done, and you can hop back on WW right away and fix things back up again. And just to give yourself a bit of latitude, if you think you can handle it, you might even want to schedule 1 crack brownie in during the week. I find I can handle the sweets best if I've planned ahead for them, and I eat them in a social setting (ie. not alone in front of the TV - I'm sure you know what I mean!).