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Old 05-01-2014, 09:10 AM   #31  
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Wouldn't this mean that he is aware that some people need to follow a specific dietary philosophy while others do not? Wouldn't it mean that not everybody needs to subscribe to a low carb lifestyle? Because like I said, people run away with the bits and pieces that apply to them and what I got out of this very moving ted talk is that doctors need to question their prejudice and the one-size fits all theory. And if he is willing to work with researchers that having opposing theories then why aren't we?
That is exactly what he is saying. That not everyone is the same, so we need to stop treating us as all the same. BUT... probably 70% of people who are overweight are probably carb sensitive, but also people who are thin can be carb sensitive. We just need to figure it out.

Why do we all have to fit the same mold?

I look at my husband and me - I'm hungriest the beginning part of the day, he is hungriest in the evening. I'm also a morning person, he's a night owl. He can eat anything in moderation. I cannot resist some things (sweets). When we eat the same foods, he will get gassy. I will not. He will get constipated with the same foods that I will not get constipated. Etc.

In almost every single way, we are different when it comes to food. Yes, when we eat less, we lose weight, but how our bodies deal with food, is completely opposite.

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Old 05-01-2014, 10:50 AM   #32  
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Its a huge ordeal to try and find any common factor explaining why people are the size that they are. It'd be more useful if it was presented as "if you are like this, this often correlates with this, etc" and the audience can see if it applies to them. However, people generally get more drawn in to talks that are presented as an overarching applies-to-all.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:55 AM   #33  
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That is exactly what he is saying. That not everyone is the same, so we need to stop treating us as all the same. BUT... probably 70% of people who are overweight are probably carb sensitive, but also people who are thin can be carb sensitive. We just need to figure it out.

Why do we all have to fit the same mold?

I look at my husband and me - I'm hungriest the beginning part of the day, he is hungriest in the evening. I'm also a morning person, he's a night owl. He can eat anything in moderation. I cannot resist some things (sweets). When we eat the same foods, he will get gassy. I will not. He will get constipated with the same foods that I will not get constipated. Etc.

In almost every single way, we are different when it comes to food. Yes, when we eat less, we lose weight, but how our bodies deal with food, is completely opposite.
When I see my nutritional therapist next week I will bring up this sensitivity issue. We have had several conversations about carbs, mainly about my very volatile relationship to carbs. Years of low carbing caused me to fear carbs yet always run back to them - which was a vicious and uncontrollable cycle. I kept feeling like I was failing, that if I could stick to the low carb that I would be fine and that I would find that ease and euphoria that so many low carbers swear by. My nutritional therapist specializes in IE so she's not tolerant of the low carb mentality and we talk mostly about the guilt I feel over carbs. I have sensitivity to carbs but it's a psychological one, not physical. If I could find anyone, just one person who is successful at low-carb without resorting to eventual binging then it would make more sense. But I have yet to meet or see someone who does low carb without struggling to stay on course. Low carb led me to lots and lots of binges, meanwhile IE has completely stripped me of any desire to binge. I still have some guilt issues over carbs that will take a while to overcome but at least I don't have to give up cake. The bottom line is, that now that I have lifted all restrictions from eating carbs that I'm eating much less of them.

I'm also extremely lucky that I grew up in the mediterranean, therefore lived for many years on the mediterranean diet - loaded with legumes, whole grains, fish, and vegetables. I probably never even had butter until I was a teenager, in the mediterranean even sweets are made with olive oil. Anyway, due to my family history in the mediterranean we have no history of heart disease, diabetes, strokes, cancer, dementia, or anything associated with metabolic syndrome. My elders have all lived very long and healthy lives and I see no impending doom in my future, I can definitely see how someone with a frightening family history has to take drastic measures. And I too look at my future and want to be healthy - when I hear of people getting sick and having to stop eating sugar or salt or fat or whatever their doctor tells them to lay off I get very scared. Because I don't want my health to be compromised in a way that I will have to restrict food in a significant way - I've tried and have failed that many many times, I can't stick to it even if I bet large amounts of money on it. I'm so scared that some doctor is going to tell me that I have to stop eating something and then I will be so resentful of the restriction that I will binge because that's all I know how to do.

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Old 05-01-2014, 11:55 AM   #34  
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Well, when I heard this ted talk that's what I got out of it. She says so pretty plainly, that your set point can't really be changed and that "this is what your mother meant when she said life isn't fair." Whether it's true or not it was not a motivator for me to even consider IE. I figured, if I can't change anything then what's the point.

Luckily I did try IE and have not had a disasterous time of it. I'm glad I looked past her particularly bad ted talk and tried it for myself.

You always need to look further than one person's opinion to fairly judge any theory, especially in weight loss where there are so many theories.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:56 PM   #35  
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IE didn't work well for me but neither did Atkins. But in both cases, I probably never really was sufficiently devoted to the spirit of the program. Luckily, I now seem to be on board with a WOE that accommodates my strengths and weaknesses.

I'm still working on finding that "sweet spot" carb level that controls my appetite and yet doesn't result in blood sugar crashes.

From what I've read and noticed, inuitive eating seems to work best for people who
do not have insulin/blood sugar, and also for people who were never overweight as children or young adults. And, it seems to work least well for people with blood sugar and insulin issues.

I'm just glad to hear that the science is starting to consider the possibility that obesity is a multifaceted problem for which there is no single answer. Taking blame out of the equation would be a nice added bonus.


I was taught and encourage to blame my dedication whenever I failed at weight loss (I started dieting as a pudgy five year old, and from the very start I got the message that failure was my fault).

For decades, I did a better job of blaming myself than anyone else could, though there was a fair amount of external blame and shaming too.


To me, the TED talk we're talking about is refreshing, just from the perspective of acknowledging that doctors don't have all the answers and that overweight people cannot all be dismissed as lazy and unwilling to cooperate with medical advice.

Unfortunately, in my experience, it's rare to find a doctor who is compassionate about weight issues unless he/she has experienced weight issues personally.

Sadly, even in this TED talk, this is true. The speaker didn't consider the possibility that the fat patient shouldn't be blamed until HE experienced issues himself.


Personally, I wish I had understood (or even heard about) insulin resistance as a kid or teen. Before I was ten years old, I knew that I could not eat sugar for breakfast or I would feel horrible about 10-20 minutes later.

Occasionally after church, my parents would take us for donuts, and we were allowed two donuts. I would either save my donuts for later in the day and only drink my milk, or I would get french crullers (my favorite and the lowest calorie and carb donut on the menu, though I didn't know that then. They probably were my favorite because they didn't make me sick).

When I tried Atkins at around 15, "induction flu" was so bad that I actually passed out and came close several times. I tried Atkins several times throughout my life with the same results.

Only decades later, after my current doctor diagnosed me as insulin resistant (now diabetic) did I learn to associate those symptoms with low blood sugar.

It's quite possible I was insulin resistant from birth.

My doctor suggested I try low-carb, but not too low-carb (unfortunately he couldn't tell me how low was too low).

I've been experimenting (and succeeding) ever since, even though I must admit to having almost zero motivation and dedication.

If I had learned all this before I had burned myself out on dieting and caring about my weight, I have no doubt that I'd have lost weight more rapidly.

I admit that my current efforts are half-hearted (and half-arsed), but I'm still having more success than when I was younger, and more intensely motivated.

I can only imagine the success I would have had with "low but not too low" carb dieting in my teens and twenties when I was willing to do almost anything to succeed.

Even if I only knew to avoid the high glycemic carbs (sugar and grains) I doubt I would have had as severe a weight problem.


The state of nutritional and dietetic science is dismal compared to the other sciences and I think it's largely because of two false assumptions that permeated not only the science, but our culture as a whole.

1. There is a single optimal diet for weight loss that is appropriate for every overweight person, regardless of age, degree of obesity, and all other variables.

2. Obese patients are obese because of their own weakness of character - they are lazy and unwilling to comply with dietary advice.


It's nice to see that those assumptions are being questioned.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:31 PM   #36  
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The state of nutritional and dietetic science is dismal compared to the other sciences and I think it's largely because of two false assumptions that permeated not only the science, but our culture as a whole.

1. There is a single optimal diet for weight loss that is appropriate for every overweight person, regardless of age, degree of obesity, and all other variables.

2. Obese patients are obese because of their own weakness of character - they are lazy and unwilling to comply with dietary advice.


It's nice to see that those assumptions are being questioned.
Yes... finally. I hate that people assume I'm fat because of being weak. it is simply not that easy!
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:43 PM   #37  
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As part of that team, Attia brings the perspective that insulin resistance is a part of the problem for many people... Attia is carb sensitive but his wife is not...
bbm


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Wouldn't this mean that he is aware that some people need to follow a specific dietary philosophy while others do not? Wouldn't it mean that not everybody needs to subscribe to a low carb lifestyle? Because like I said, people run away with the bits and pieces that apply to them and what I got out of this very moving ted talk is that doctors need to question their prejudice and the one-size fits all theory. And if he is willing to work with researchers that having opposing theories then why aren't we?


I think we agree. I do not believe that Attia's message is that everyone needs to go on a low carb diet. I didn't see any reason to think he believes that people who are not carb sensitive should go on low carb diets. But I believe he thinks it can help those people who do happen to be carb sensitive. That doesn't exclude the possibility of using other approaches and it also doesn't exclude the possibility of addressing other extraneous issues that could lead to weight gain (which might be pursued by other team members). And, like you said, everyone takes something different away from the talk. This is what I got from the talk and a little web browsing, but I might be misrepresenting his views.

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Old 05-01-2014, 07:12 PM   #38  
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If I could find anyone, just one person who is successful at low-carb without resorting to eventual binging then it would make more sense.
Kim in the Atkins forum just celebrated 10 years maintenance. Diamondgeode? (don't know how long he's been at it). These are just two people I can think of off the top of my head. Try asking around in the low carb forum. And the maintainers forum.

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Old 05-01-2014, 07:22 PM   #39  
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I'm just glad to hear that the science is starting to consider the possibility that obesity is a multifaceted problem for which there is no single answer. Taking blame out of the equation would be a nice added bonus.
...
To me, the TED talk we're talking about is refreshing, just from the perspective of acknowledging that doctors don't have all the answers and that overweight people cannot all be dismissed as lazy and unwilling to cooperate with medical advice.
Absolutely!

I wish all doctors would see this TED talk.
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:23 PM   #40  
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another line of inquiry to consider
http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/s...013obesity.htm
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:40 PM   #41  
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another line of inquiry to consider
http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/s...013obesity.htm
Hmm... My husband is lean. Means we shouldn't wash hands and I should try to contaminate myself with his gut microbes?.

There is more to the story of what makes people overeqt and become obese. I wonder if I will live long enough for them to figure it all out completely.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:00 PM   #42  
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fecal bacteriotherapy ftw!
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Old 12-07-2023, 03:27 AM   #43  
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Dr. Peter Attia's talk on obesity is mind-blowing.
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