I know what you mean Val. I swore I'd never be over 200 again and guess what... I'm over 200 again. I had a tough day at work. I was there later than I wanted to be and then had to come home and cook dinner which was a pain. I'm thinking that I may just decide to cook on days I get home on time whether it's a day I'm planning to cook or not so I don't get stuck like this again.

and then there's me.... I never made it to ONEderland... yet, but swore I'd never get over 220 again and there I was at 244!! My all time high.... It's a lifestyle ladies

Val... I'm keeping my fingers soooooooo crossed for you with the vet job!

Petra... Sonoma is a lot of work. I hope you can find the time. I'm so busy these days I'm eating all the wrong stuff. Not necessarily junkfood,just quick food.... but doing the best I can for now.

Pic's

Dee~

Dee you are right about the time committment but this is a time committment no matter what plan I decided to go with. The food is delicious once you cook it and you do get left overs which are great. I could find excuses no matter what I decided to do. They do have quick meals to choose from and once I get more familiar I think I'll be better organized with it. I got in that bad situation again last night. I had eaten left overs from Thurs. dinner for lunch on Friday so I didn't want to eat the same thing last night for dinner because that would just get too boring. I got home at 6:30 and had to spend 45 minutes cooking dinner and I thought I was going to pass out. Now I have a couple different left overs to choose from.

We just got a new Chief of psychiatry. This was his first week so he was in orientation most of the week. He met with me briefly yesterday and I told him I am looking for a new job-I didn't go as far as telling him it's almost a done deal. He was very disappointed and pleaded with me to give him a chance. I know he has no idea what he is in for but I am tired of hearing rhetoric at this point and need to see action NOW. And that just isn't going to happen. Even the guy who was filling in for him told him that I have great performance (I'm sure he also told him I do my fair share of complaining) but no problem with me doing my job and meeting expectations in a timely fashion. Funny how you always think the grass is going to be greener somewhere else. I hope I'm not making another bad decision here but I can't imagine any institution more screwed up than the VA.

I think I just had an epiphany in the shower this morning. You guys will need to indulge me a little here. You already know that I am convinced that obesity is a substance abuse disorder. None of us likes to think about that but I still think it is true. Most of the patient's I now treat are substance abusers and seeing what they go through and my own struggles-the psychological aspects are unmistakably the same. Obviously I can't get arrested for eating cupcakes but I think you know what I am talking about. I know that I am having a very similar conversation with myself in the grocery store as I am standing in the checkout lane with my cupcakes as my patient is having as he is standing on a street corner buying crack. Fortunately, when it is all over, I just want to smack myself in the head, he feels so bad he wants to die.

You know how almost all dieters have this strange habit of adhering closely to our program and then having one slip and everything seems to go to **** in a handbasket. It's like we expect ourselves to be perfect in this area of our life even though we can accept imperfections in other areas. I don't actually think that is what happens. If you ask any alcoholic what would happen if they had a period of sobriety and then had a little relapse-1 beer. Most of them would tell you they would not say "it was only 1 beer, may as well stop before this gets out of control. I don't have to be perfect all the time." Instead, they say "what the ****, may as well finish the 6 pack" and 1 six pack leads to another, leads to a case, leads to a binge. (You can substitute any drug of abuse you want here) Sound familiar? I don't think we are all perfectionists in one little area of our lives, I think we are addicts and we don't want to look at it. You guys can tell me if you think I'm off base here. I think the reason I keep rolling this around in my head is because I don't want this to be true either but I can't find the hole in the psychological model. It seems to be the only thing that makes sense to me. And if I am right, beware of anyone who tells you, you can have "an occasional treat" when you reach goal weight. I think that is the part none of us wants to hear. The problem with that logic should be obvious-it's like telling an alcoholic they can have an occasional beer once they have been sober for some specified period of time.

Petra... I have been saying that for years! Alcoholism runs rampant in my family, and is prominent in my partner choices throughout my adult life. I look at it as the reason I've probably not really ever been "into" the drinking scene.

I've stated over and over to people, who don't understand why I can't just stop eating, that food is MY addiction. You have the ability to remove yourself from alcohol ( pot, etc).. and from any friends and/or influences that will lead you back into that temptation. You don't have to go into the bar, or walk down the beer aisle. I cannot remove food from my environment.... I can't NOT go grocery shopping (try shopping and not having to shop right on past the "icky" stuff... it's in every aisle. Just try not to stop and look, think about having just one- Yeah Right.... I can't NOT ever go out to eat...look at those menus, read the descriptions and then choose the diet plate. I have to make the right choices, which I don't do all the time. The alcoholic has to make the choices for himself too, but it just seems that it's easier to remove the temptation from their life. I can't count the times I've stuffed my face with garbage- knowing while I'm chewing it that it's wrong. I have been in tears as I swallow and take another bite. I've gone as far as forcing myself to purge, because I'm so full, just for the sole purpose of being able to eat more. Knowing it is so wrong, but I can't stop..... I'll bet I've felt as low as any crack addict out there......

wow, that really opened up some old feelings. I haven't thought about it for a long time. If I were actually talking I can hear my voice rising......lol. I could go on and on but I can't dwell. Only move forward!

OK I rambled again lol.... but Petra, I totally get what your saying! I just wanted you to know.

BTW..... I believe wholehartely in the VA system....They have done well by lee. But, I don't have to try to work in that system, and I wish you well in your plans. With our government, and the healthcare system these days the change sounds like a good thang.

I didn't mean to dig up an old emotional wound. I forget sometimes that not everyone else tries to look at behavior like a psychiatrist. I engaged Johnny Bowden in an email discussion on the topic and he seems interested in what I'm saying. I'm just sort of mystified at why I seem to be the only person who is openly saying "hey, this is exactly the same brain disease. Why are we treating it like its something else?" I don't think I'm some sort of genius here.

Dee, sometime you should ask Lee how ubiquitous alcohol is in our society. I stopped at the grocery store on the way home from church this morning to pick up a few items. The beer is in the same aisle with the milk. I think it is harder for them than we want to admit. You are right, we can't give up all food but if you think about it, it probably isn't all food you overeat. I haven't met anyone who told me they binge on broccoli or fish. True binge eaters-who will overeat anything are the exception. Most of us overeat specific foods. You know what my problem food is and I have to admit-telling myself that if I REALLY want to conquer this, I have to never eat refined sugar again is a difficult thing to imagine. Never having another piece of birthday cake, or another chocolate chip cookie, forever. Sounds awfully harsh. I think that is part of why none of us likes to talk abut this. I have to tell you, in church this morning, I felt like I had just woken up out of some sort of stupor. I felt like I was really present for the first time in months. Maybe sugar has a more profound effect on my brain than it does on most people's but I honestly feel like I just woke up. Next time I go on a sugar binge, somebody slap me upside the head!

One thing about the VA. I do feel like what I do there matters in the grand scheme of things. And I know that I have already made a big difference in several patients lives but the system is broken. Some VA's function better than ours and I suppose some might even function worse but there are some problems that are just part of the big federal bureacracy and won't be fixed anytime soon. I feel constantly demoralized there.

I was trying to remember where this binge started and you know what happened? I ate a chocolate chip cookie at the mall. I thought it would be okay because I didn't bring it into the house. And that was before I started this job last Dec. Almost a year ago....... When do we learn?

Now worries Petra... I think it does me good to remember the low points of my weight issues. It had been a long time since I had brought them to the front of my mind. I really like hearing what you have to say, and the way you analyze things. I'm an emotional thinker through and through, lol a total Cancer... and I feel like you put a scientific, factual- realistic touch to things? I get to see things in a different light, so to speak. I hope that is making some sort of sense. It is absolutely a compliment

So, I'm kind of feeling the urge to do a confession of sorts. What I said in my last post, and now..... things I really haven't actually said to anyone else. I think it a lot, but there really isn't anyone I could sit and tell these feelings to in real life. One more reason I'm so glad you guys are here.

I guess, in all honesty, I should admit that the worst of the binging and the purging happened while I was also smoking pot a lot. Ever since I was a teenager, getting stoned centered around making sure I had the right food ready- (sweets, salt, carbs, meat... veggies and fruit just didn't work), or else I would eat whatever I had in the house- which turned out to be some pretty disgusting concoctions. My favorite was to hit the chinese food- all the greasy deep fried stuff- not a veggie in the bag. I really thought it through and prepared for my binges. And, if I think I'm a potato now, when I was high I didn't want to talk to anyone, or do anythng. Just eat and watch TV!!! I didn't really use pot on any regular basis until I was probably in my 30's. LOL my sister used to give me some and know that when she was out she could count on me having it 6 months later. However, I have not done any in the last 5 years- I'm still overweight so I know it's not totally all to blame.

Lee was out of town overnight a couple weeks ago, and all I could think of was that I would get to have a big ol' rib steak, and Kraft Mac & Cheese. Is that sick or what!?!?!?!?! I still have problems lol.

So, maybe more confession later- but now it's out in the open at least. Thanks Ladies! I know if I knew you all, I'm sure I would love you all!

Hi everyone

I totally agree with the addiction theory. Sometimes I feel like it's just out of my control. I went grocery shopping today. I passed by the cookies 2 times while looking for my wasa bread. Then I bought a bag of 8 cookies and ate 6. 700 calories! Then I came home and threw the bag in my neighbors garbage so my husband wouldn't find it. Now in my opinion that is addict behavior.

I only had 1700 calories today so I didn't go over on my calories it's just the behavior that is disturbing.

It's amazing how you feel like something else took over your brain. Actually, that probably is what happens.

As for the pot. Believe it or not, I've never smoked pot but it is well known for giving people the "munchies." In fact, we use a pharmaceutical form of it to stimulate appetite in cancer patients, AIDS patients so it is a real effect of the drug.

When I am in my better state of mind Dee, I make deals with myself about foods like that. If I'm going to have a steak, I pick a leaner cut and if I'm going to have mac and cheese, I have to make it myself from scratch and use healthier ingredients. Sometimes I either actually do it or I give up and say it isn't worth it.

I have to tell you what else I noticed at the grocery store yesterday. As soon as you walk in the door (and this is the only entrance) there is a big display with all kinds of baked goods-cakes, cookies, strawberry shortcake. You practically have to trip over it to get to the produce section behind it.

I hope we didn't lose Curly.

Hope everyone is doing okay. Today is the first day of Wave 2 for me. I'll make a ticker later today when I have time. I didn't lose a whole bunch on Wave 1 but I did lose a few pounds.

My new boss at the VA brought a book in for me to read. It's about how the VA has tried to turn around it's image and health care delivery system over the past 10-15 years and is now one of the leaders in the way to deliver high quality efficient care. I can acknowledge that they do some things right and that there is the potential for it to be a good program but it still has a ways to go. This book also does not deal with individual situations, obviously.

HI Ladies,

I'm thinking Curly mentioned classes starting and looking for a new place to live, plus she's still new at her job.....so I bet she'll be checking in soon. She's the glue that's been keeping this thread alive when we all stray for to long. to you Curly

Good luck on phase 2 Petra!!! and congrats on the few lbs you did shed. It's a few less than you had a couple weeks ago

Re: the cooking with better choices thing lol... when Lee went out of town I HAD to have the big ol rib steak and the Kraft box mac & cheese because normally #1: we don't eat a lot of meat per meal. I usually cook one boneless pork chop each or a small leaner steak to split. (Believe me when I say a I love meat and could make a meal out of nothing but meat lol).. & #2, I have not had a Kraft box mac & cheese (which I LOVE) or rice-a-roni or hamburger helper etc in 5 years!!! Lee just doesn't like box prepared foods and I know that making them from fresh is better so that's what I do. But, once in a while I get a craving for something and when he's not home I just get obsessed with what I can eat while nobody is watching me..... go figure.

AND?!?!?!?! The grocery store thing and bakery goods! It's the same way at the larger store here Petra. Walk in the door and all the yummy bakery stuff is on a huge table- the only way past is between that table and the fresh baked loaves of artisan breads next to the gourmet cheese and spreads case. Oh MYYYYYYY how good it all smells & looks. lol. BUT since the bakery isn't my downfall (it's the chips & crackers- sweet and salty).. I get by alright. If I were a chocolate cake fiend I'd be in trouble!

Any news on your new job prospect?

Val, I think we all have gone thru or still go thru the hiding the evidence. What's that old saying..... if nobody knows I ate it, then it doesn't count.... HA!!!! As much as I don't want to admit it, I still rationalize that way sometimes-(refer to above paragraph). It's good that you continued to count your cals rather than just say screw-it for the day and give up. You have come a long way Baby

Good luck to us all, have a great day/night

Dee~

Val, I just realized I made a ticker that is similar to yours.

I'm having a strange day. We're having bad weather and I don't know if that has something to do with it or not. I haven't been particularly hungry despite the fact that I am now allowed to eat more things. I ended up having toast with peanut butter for dinner. Not a very exciting day for my first day on Wave 2 and I even decided to skip the wine.

Kobe is worse than a spoiled child. He jumps around and barks at me like a maniac until I give in and give him the treats he wants. Seems he has me well trained. How did that happen?

I heard from the administrator at the other hospital yesterday. He said he was just waiting on a few details for the offer so hopefully I'll hear something soon. I am getting anxious about this. They are on a tight timeline too so you'd think they would be anxious to get it done. It also takes time to get insurance panels done and stuff like that.

I ordered that Mediterasian book from Amazon and it came today. I'm looking forward to reading it when I finish this one about the VA.

Petra, I hope today is less strange than yesterday for you I havent heard of the mediterasian book. Let us know. My old manager has a book for me full of recipes using whole grains. She forgot it when I saw her yesterday, so hoopefully she'll get it to me soon. I'm looking forward to it.

Today is Lee's 30 year AA birthday. He asked me to go to his meeting with him. They gave him a very special chip. It was actually pretty emotional. I've heard him speak before, but had forgotten how powerful he really is (to me). Afterward we stopped and got my paycheck then to the bank. Then we went out to breakfast. I didn't do great but I did think about my choices. I got an ome.ett, ham & cheese when I wanted sausage but decided I could cut some fat. We hadn't had breakfast here before and actually I was really happy with the NORMAL portions. Our society has oversized portions so grossly, this was just right. I was full, but not stuffed, and I didn't feel like I HAD to clean my plate. Anyone else ever have this feeling?
anyway, it's only noon and hitting 102 here at the house. I'm thinking of heading to the beach to cool off. Or maybe the river cuz it's closer, but I have to wash my car after that dirt road lol...

ciao ladies, Dee~

Edit: What an emotional day. Just got a call Lees mom passed away and this afternoon. It was expected, but still...... I'm glad I can be a support for him this time.

Sorry to hear about Lee's Mom.

I'm having a better day. Even having a glass of wine with dinner tonight. The physician I work with called me on the phone today at work even though our offices are just down the hall from each other. He wanted to see if he could persuade me not to leave. He was very sweet. He told me I'm the best partner he's ever worked with. I should get my offer very soon. I got a text message today saying it is going in the mail in the morning.

Dee-the Mediterasian book is on the home page of 3FC! BTW, my real name is Mary in case you forgot or cared.