To be fair, I'm more of a calorie "estimator" than a counter. I cook nearly everything from scratch (I even make my own yogurt), so counting calories seems like such a daunting task if I have to count every leaf of kale I throw in the soup. My habit is, say if I'm making a curry, I'll count the calories in the coconut milk, the oil (if I use any), the rice.... But as for the vegis.... I don't bother. Is that going to sabotage my efforts?

Depends on how many veggies you eat I guess. I looked back at my Daily Plate logs for December and I had some days where I ate as many as 500 calories in veggies. Not counting those would definitely have sabotaged my efforts.

To put it quite simply, EVERY CALORIE COUNTS... Some veggies are calorie dense - others, not so much... I would count all of them. After all, that would be like saying "does walking count?" It seems like it does minimal benefits at the time but EVERY STEP COUNTS.

Of course calories in vegetables count. Get a good calorie counting book or go online . Daily Plate is just one of several online calorie counters.

I'm like you, someone who cooks from scratch a lot. I tend to make large batches of soups (then freeze them) and the best thing is a food scale for that kind of stuff. I chop up the veggies, weigh them and record the number of ounces, then dump them in the pot.

The last batch of soup I made (turkey noodle) ended up at 5,369 calories. It was homemade stock, leftover turkey, veggies, canned tomatoes, soy beans, various small pasta and spices.

5369 - Total
4854 - Without onions/celery/carrots
3499 - Without tomatoes & soy beans

So not counting the veggies would mean that I was taking in 50% more calories than I thought. Does it matter, maybe not. However, if at some point you're not losing weight it can help to ensure that everything is accurate.

Weight watchers does not count non-starchy veggies - (so to be fair the soup example the soy beans would count and you would be off ~ 10%)

I estimate my veggies - there is another thread where I talk about what I count

If you choose to NOT count then you should allow extra calories for veggies. I would need to drop my calorie allotment probably 250 calories a day to compensate.


This is what I wrote on the other thread and may work better for you:
I should say- if I just eat a carrot I log it, it is stuff like stir fries, soups, salads, omelettes that I make often that I estimate.

Everthing counts, but that doesn't mean you necessarily have to count everything (in the example of walking - of course it counts, but most people don't, and probably shouldn't, try to count and calculate the number of calories they burn during that walk. It's assumed that it counts, but a person doesn't have to count it for it to count).

The same can be true of not counting a food. Say you're allotting yourself 1400 calories, but are including a glass of skim milk (and only one glass) every day that you don't count. Your calorie count is going to be "off" by about 100 calories, but you're still going to be losing the same amount of weight as you would if you counted those 90 calories but alotted yourself 1500 calories.

Not counting non-starchy veggies can be much the same, but only as long as you're eating about the same number of servings and calories consistently. If the calorie/servings vary greatly from day to day, counting makes a lot more sense.

How precise you want to be, and how precise you need to be, is a very individual thing. There are a lot of ways to count calories, and any of them can be effective, as long as you're using them consistently.

Exchange plans are my favorite method of calorie estimating. In exchange plans, all of the foods within an exchange category have approximately the same calorie count (for example, bread servings have about 80 calories each, and fruit servings have about 70 calories each).

The exchange breakdown can vary, for example a 1200 calorie exchange plan could look like this:

5 bread, 4 protein, 3 vegetable, 3 fruit, 2 milk, 3 fat


and another might look like this:

2 bread, 8 protein, 3 vegetable, 2 fruit, 2 milk, 3 fat



Just like calorie counting more precisely, there are books and online resources to help you calculate the calorie/exchange categories of foods that you eat.


Although it's less precise mathmatically than some forms of calorie counting, it's just as effective for many folks (when I'm not losing, it's not because I'm following an exchange plan instead of a more precise form of calorie counting - it's because I'm not following my exchange plan).

There are advantages (and disadvantages) to less precise calorie counting methods. If you're a calculate to the penny calorie counter, it's rather hard to memorize all the foods you will be eating, so you'll need to keep your reference materials near. If you're a calorie rounder or an exchange plan follower, you can memorize a lot of your more commonly eaten foods.

I like that exchange plans help me focus on more whole food choices (they're easiest to count), and help me avoid overindulging or missing out on specific food categories (I tend to avoid dairy and overeat fruit, for example. Having my exchange "boxes" to check off, helps me correct that).

I've been told that exchange plans aren't "really" calorie counting. Though I've also seen people criticised for estimating calories, rounding to the nearest 50, 10, or 5 - for not using an online calculator - for not trying to count their calorie output - for trying to calculate their calorie output.

It's a bit like the Aesop's fable of the father and son taking the donkey to market - everyone has an opinion on your choices and no matter your choice, someone will tell you that you're doing it wrong.

Yep to me they do simply because over time if you eat 100 extra calories a day that will add up to 700 per week or about 3/4 pound a month a little less but close enough.... So overtime you will gain weight simply from eating that 100 calories of veggies every day simply because you did not count them... A calorie is a calorie..

Now having said that I wouldnt sweat a handful of kale here and there but if your using large amounts I would count them.... They weigh it in the bowl on the scale thing is the best way to fix not wanting to mess with every piece of food...

The fault in the logic of that math, though is that it's really only true if you're never stepping on a scale, looking in a mirror, using a tape measure, or paying attention to how your clothes fit). If you're adjusting your calorie level based on your bathroom scale reading, being off by 100 or even 500 calories in your count is not going to necessarily stall your weight loss (as long as your discrepancies are fairly consistent).

You may "think" that you need to eat 1500 calories to maintain your weight (when it might be closer to 1700 because of the 200 you're not counting), but if you're monitoring your weight, and adjusting your calorie count (even if your calorie count is "off" somewhat), weight loss is going to happen even if your math isn't as precise as it could be.

In the end, your scale will tell you if you're being precise enough.

Many who are arguing that you MUST count are assuming that if you are on a 1400 calorie diet and you dont count veggies you would end up at 1700 calories (for example) where both Kaplods and I are suggesting if you dont count then you might end up on an "1100" calorie diet. Because in the long run to be successful you arent taking the number you eat from some online calculator, you are taking it from what works for you.

On the flip side - if you are someone like me who usually eats a LOT of veggies and I had myself on an "1100" calorie diet and for some reason that day veggies were hard to come by (like I went to my inlaws) I might actually eat LESS than usual that day trying to fight for 1100 which would be tough.

Echo kaplods, what is important is what works for YOU.

Easy answer is yes they ALL count, I have lost more than 200 pounds calorie counting and the weeks/months where I was strict and counted everything I lost way more weight, the weeks that I estimated...not so much

As Ever
Me

hmm, you all have given me plenty to think about! I will look into the exchange programs and glean what I can from that. ha ha. Not counting veggies (but counting fruit, legumes, grains, meat, condiments, etc) I've been COMFORTABLY eating under 1000 calories/day (instead of snacking all day long which is really my struggle). So I'm SURE that I'm eating a LOT of calories in vegetables (because I'm not hungry except RIGHT before I eat the next meal, and I'm full after meals). I'll keep track of EVERY calorie for a few days and get an overall estimate. Because if I have a goal of say 900 calories of "not veg" food and I eat roughly the same amount of vegetables, then I'll probably be under the recommended number of calories (but I will do a few days of baseline counting to make sure) overall. I would rather have a lower number in my head and give myself "free" vegetables because if I am making a meal I'd rather put in extra mushrooms than worry about my count.

I don't have to worry about say going somewhere where I don't cook and the count changing namely because I have SO many food intolerances.... I ALWAYS cook for myself!! If we ever go somewhere (we're both such homebodies that we haven't gone on an overnight trip in 2 years and we brought our own food there too!).

Thanks so much for the imput!

This really is a unique experience, and a "once-size-fits-all" solution really does not exist.

For my self I can say (in four decades of dieting experience) that I too lost the most rapidly during weeks/plans in which I counted most rigidly. But I also learned that most-rapid, doesn't mean for me, most-successful. The more rigidly I counted, the fewer weeks I stayed on plan as well - and the less weight I lost in the long-run. The more rigid I was, the bigger a failure I felt with the smallest of mistakes, and the more likely I was to give up entirely and go back to old habits, because being so strict was "too hard, too stressful..."

You've got to know yourself, and work with what works for you. There's nothing wrong with compromise - if the compromise works for you. There's no one you have to satisfy but yourself.

kaplods.... THANKS!!!!

I really do have to figure out what works. I know what does NOT work for me (snacking all day long, eating mindlessly, and tons of dairy and high-fat foods). HAHAHA!

If I'm eating an all veggie meal then yep I weigh my food, it's just simpler that way. If I'm making a salad for example I put my bowl on the scale and pile on the lettuce and record the weight. Zero the scale and add each veggie by itself and so on and so forth.

What I do NOT do is skimp on veggies. I help myself to nonstarch veggies as much as I like... but I keep track of those calories.

The only things I limit myself on are proteins, fats, and starches. I'd rather skimp on those than forbid myself veggies and fruits.

However, if I'm having a slice of lettuce on my bread or a couple of cucumber sticks with my hummus then I don't count those. They're freebies.