I think this is probably the case. For a few weeks after we switched from Momentum to PP I counted my points both ways. On Momentum I got 23 points and 29 on PP so on PP some foods had higher points, particularly higher carb foods. But generally if a day was within 23 points on Momentum then it would be within 29 points on PP. I didn't eat entirely whole foods but mostly whole foods (bread, etc.). I did find that foods with lots of refined carbs, including for example the WW bars and snack products, tended to be penalized in PP so I didn't eat those as much. I wasn't a huge eater of them before but did use them.

FWIW, I could lose weight on either program. For me, I found I lost weight faster using PP so after a few weeks I switched to it entirely. My sense is that many people who lose more on Momentum go overboard on fruit on PP and so it stalls their weight loss. MY husband is also doing WW and he is a big fruit eater so at first he lost more slowly on PP but he adjusted after awhile. I'm not a big fruit eater so I didn't have the same problem.

As far as WW switching programs or having multiple programs I think there are a couple of different issues. Back when WW was still an exchange program they had one exchange program for most people but also had a vegetarian program that was different. I think that was fine. Or even now you can do simply filling instead of counting points.

On the other hand if they feel their "main" program is outdated or isn't working well then they should change it. That is good business for them, of course, and is also good for their members.

I truly don't think they change their program just in order to make money (it may be a factor in little changes but not in the major program change like this year). I do think they offer WW foods to make money and I think they should change their snack foods especially to use whole grains and less sugar, etc.

The reality though is that there are lots of weight loss programs that will work for people. Some people do well on low carb (I'm following a fairly low carb diet and do count net carbs and still also count WW points). Other people might do better on an exchange program or just counting calories. Others may succeed more on Momentum. I understand why WW doesn't support it -- they feel it is outdated -- just as they don't support exchange programs any more (not so much those are scientifically outdated as I think they feel Points Plus is easier to stick to). But I think that everyone should do what works for them and helps them to lose weight.

I want to be clear that I don't think there's anything wrong with WW, especially if you can afford it. TOPS is an excellent option for those who can't afford WW, or don't want to follow the WW Plan (or accept the don't ask don't tell position you're placed in if you don't).

If my financial situation changes, I think I would rejoin WW - not because I don't like and even prefer my TOPS meetings, but while TOPS allows you to be a member of other weight loss clubs, you can't belong to more than one TOPS chapter at a time (even if another chapter lets you sit in on their meetings, you can't weigh in), so you can only weigh-in once per week.

That may seem like no big-deal, but I really think I would do better with a meeting and weigh-in twice per week. Maybe that makes me seem desperate and weak (especially since I'm here every day), but I really am like an addict. I would do a daily meeting and weigh-in if I could.

I would live in a dieter's half-way house if such a thing existed. I've always thought that it would be awesome to create and live in a healthy-lifestyle community modeled after retirement communities, with all the amenities conducive to a healthy lifestyle (with no age limits). There are retirement communities for all incomes, and healthy-lifestyle communities could be modeled after them. Your condo fees could go to things like fitness and nutrition instructors.

QuilterInVA works for WW, she put it in another post. That's probably why she is so sensitive about negative comments.

I have to agree with what a lot of you are saying, all of the plans work if you use them properly. If you are more comfortable using an older model, do what works for you. Just because something is newer and maybe even better for the general population, it doesn't make it the best answer for each individual. Personally, I had trouble with Points Plus so I went back to Momentum. I have struggled to keep losing weight in general so I decided if I felt like I had more progress on Momentum (whether or not it is actually true or if Points Plus is faster/better), switching back was the best option for me. Half the battle with weight loss is mental and staying motivated. I have to do whatever I can to feel confident and continue.

I know this is a thread about Weight Watchers but what you said above made me think of something.

I have been on an exchange plan since 1997 when I first began Richard Simmon's Deal A Meal plan. I loved it. I had a few sets of cards and I was able to customize my calorie level (the one RS suggested for me to loose weight) to the cards that *I* wanted, not the cards Richard laid out in his booklets.

Then he switched to the Foodmover and suddenly he was telling everyone that the DAL plan was obsolete and everyone had to rush out to buy his Foodmover. It was obvious to me then that he was simply saying this because he is first and foremost running a business and helping people lose weight comes second to that.

I have noticed that, in many many posts I have seen online.....that many people loved and miss the old Deal A Meal program. They even discuss it on Richard's very own facebook page, which is why I sent him a letter telling him he really out to update it and bring it back. IMO he would make a lot more money, under the guise of helping people to lose weight.

I have both. Variety is a wonderful thing.

It has been done. I was on a low carb forum back in the late nineties where a woman mentioned that she was using Atkins and going to WW meetings and even though she could not tell them she was using the Atkins plan she was getting praised for losing so many pounds at her weigh-ins.

She was using the WW meetings for her own emotional support and I suspect she was not (and is not) the only one.

Actually I think right now you could totally follow Atkins and follow Weight Watchers even in induction. You would get all your fruits and veggies from veggies and not fruit but that is fine with WW. I followed a modified induction program on Atkins (higher starting carbs and allowed nuts) and had no problem following WW at the same time.

I worked for ww for 7 yrs! Leader! For me it was helping others and getting paid to do it! I loved it! Then Boom! Had a member that had been coming faithly for over 5 yrs!~ I asked them to send her something for losing 100 pounds!! They had promised in the past they would! Long story short I ended up quitting! I attened a meeting and got my new program stuff! this week I put the new stuff away and got my old stuff out and IM lovin it!! I never looked at ww as a business but a tool!

I think a lot depends on the people running your individual WW. I had lost 17 from October - December when they switched Jan 1, and tried to make PP work for about 3 weeks. Couldn't do it. Felt like a failure.

So I quit, and gained it all back (plus!).

When I really committed to doing this right, I realized that the old Momentum program was what I knew, what worked for me, etc. If you can make it liveable and easy -- it will be successful. Like the poster above who talked about calculating exchanges from a nutrition facts panel -- I can do the same thing with momentum points.

Just because they're a company doesn't make them bad. Just because they do weight loss programs doesn't make them good. Weight loss is SO individual -- that's why all these types of programs exist.

And thank god for Ebay. Old programs can still continue to circulate there.

Last night I pulled out all my 1-2-3 Success materials and it felt SO good - (this is the one that went up to 10G fiber on the side and had banking instead of flex points). I didn't abuse the fiber (like putting oat bran on ice cream to increase the fiber!) and I lost weight with the program.

I, too, did not like PP - but I'm willing to admit that part of it was psychological. I found that since the way I cook - with a lot of whole grains - resulted in HUGE point difference, and a dish that would be 3-5 points on an older points program, would now be up to 9 points! Even though you get more daily and weekly points, and fruit for free, I could never reconcile "spending" that many points on a healthy option. Therefore I started to eat with less variety in my meals and, I think, actually ate LESS healthy.

Anyway - I am thrilled there is a Momentum/Flex active group here (even though I am on one still older!).

Samida

Too much of anything thing is not a healthy option - fruits, veggies and whole grains included.

That's very true Quilter! Your weight loss is amazing.