Hello!

I'm a member of the Easter Challenge over in UK Chicks, just for fun but that ticker's been looking like that for about 4 weeks! I'm also doing a points challenge in Support Groups where you get points for water, food, exercise etc. Oh and you mention Lent - I've given up chocolate for lent. Done it before, it's too easy! I couldn't think of anything to give up that would've been a big challenge, apart from maybe bread, but that's just silly! Well maybe next year!

jusj - you could post your exercise minutes in the Exercise forum? There's a thread there called exercise accountability or something similar!

Oh and I forgot to say, that 700kcal a day diet sounds STUPID! I swear you can buy a PhD on the NET and become a GP these days!

Wow! This place is really buzzin. Welcome, jusj557. 2frus. looks like you have lost a lot of weight. Maybe you mentioned it before but what plan did you use? Thank you all for the nice pictures. I am excited because another site where I post.......the administrator is using IE and has lost 15lb.

Laughing at the 700 cal per day diet.

I had dinner with Jo (Spinymouse) Saturday night. Had a 14 oz. rib-eye steak slathered in green peppercorn sauce, mashed red potatoes, cup of chicken tortilla soup, wilted spinach salad with bacon dressing, cheesecake, coffee with cream, and at least one glass of wine (Jo kept topping it off so I'm not sure how much it actually ended up being). I have not been depriving myself since then either, and I have dropped 4 pounds since Saturday.

I've finally had time to get back in the gym. First time I've been there in a month, and it sure felt good.

2frust: You look gorgeous tooooooooo! I especially like the black and white photo with the pink gloves. And you don't look overweight at all.
Jusj: Hi and welcome! Looking forward to getting to know you!

interesting link re: the starvation mode myth
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...ess&id=4345046

Thanks for that Jo. I printed it off and will read it soon.

Here is another thing I found (I have been searching "starvation mode" because I am rebellious against the term as it is commonly used. I found a website for some fitness guru Jeremy Likness and I copied this from it -
I really agree with his "who cares?" remark.
I guess I like to think that if and when all things get close to ideal for me, that I will consume very little - like I did when I WAS very little (and that was just intuitive.)



So forgive me for being kind of Devil's Advocate about the 700 calorie diet idea - it's not for everybody, that is for sure!!

But here is what I copied from the Likness site:

Q ] How do I avoid "starvation mode?"

I always love the starvation mode argument. "Don't go under 1000 calories or you'll be in starvation mode." Starvation is when you are not getting nutrients or energy - zilch, nada. It is true starvation - i.e. not eating.
No, you will not go into some special mode after 6 hours of not eating. I've fasted for days before, and contrary to the popular trend, I did not suddenly lose 15 tons of muscle mass and become a thin sluggish weakling. I fasted for spiritual reasons and when I was done, I eased back into my regular nutrition program and was fine.
Starvation mode is something that serves two purposes. In the mind of marketers, its a great scare tactic to shock people into buying supplements to make sure they have something on the road and don't go into that scary starvation mode. It is also great to market systems because Americans like to eat. So any system that says, "Lose fat by eating more" is going to sell.
The second purpose it serves is for the person on the diet. It is a great justification for never going low enough to achieve phenomenal results - after all, they may kick into starvation mode. Better to have a reason to keep calories up and blame the inability to lose that last bit of ab flab on something else.
Seriously: when you lower calories, your metabolism goes down. This isn't starvation mode, this is your metabolism slowing down. The thing is, who cares? I know the trend is to say it's better to eat more and have a burning metabolism.
Personally, I don't see how a slow metabolism is any worse than a fast one if you are eating nutrient dense. In other words, I know of a 1200 calorie diet with far more nutrients than a typical American 3000 calorie diet. If it is sustainable and enjoyable, who cares if the metabolism is a bit slower? The idea is that it is easier to lose fat, but if you reach your goal and are maintaining, theoretically you don't have to lose more fat.

I actually am starting to have issue with the whole starvation mode thing, but just can't see maintaining any kinda of eating normalcy on 700 calories....There have been days where I know I was at about 1000-1200 and wasn't interested in eating anything else...just can't see 700.

Obi, I know what you mean - it's hard to eat that low and get proper nutrients and feel satisfied, but, then like that fitness guy said, most people don't get proper nutrients anyway on much higher calories. I guess my only point is that I think people get overly alarmed at the idea of eating very little, as though any of us were going to starve to death or some other horrible consequence. Karen Carpenter I am not. Now, let me tell you about my mother, God rest her soul...
This woman ate probably even less than 700 calories a day. Now I hope I don't get kicked off of 3fc for saying that, but no one would have ever thought of her as unhealthy. She was not skinny; just average; about 120 lbs and 5'3". And before anyone says that is not possible, well, maybe she could have gone in some book of world records or something but really, she had that old depression mentality about stretching every penny mixed with old school-Catholic indoctrination about sin and indulgence and so she just ate a bare minimum. (and no, she did not "sneak food" as she would not have bought any extra to sneak.) As far as I know I probably inherited some metabolic similarities to her. My dad always told me "I never saw your mother eat." Well she never had any nutritionally-related illness that I know of, and died in surgery of an air embolism which of course should not have happened, but she was 82 and who knows how much longer she would have lived had that not happened.
I have no idea if she ever got "hungry." If I could go back in time, I'd ask her.

You know, just being on 3fc and the IE thread has taught me there are no absolutes about anything and anything is possible. No one, not even doctors are complete experts about EVERYTHING and really eating and/or weightloss is VERY personal. Even the people who have lost alot of weight I feel found a plan that worked for them, and i may take pieces from here and there, but in the end I need to do what works for me.

So I think if your mother lived to 82 at 5'3 and 120 lbs and ate the way that worked for her...who am I...or anyone else to judge?


So I guess if my friend at work wants to eat 700 calories a day I need to have a coke and smile and keep my mouth shut...blah....

Ok, feeling very militant....

I like militant

Regarding having a coke: I have sometimes remembered growing up in Detroit and having Faygo "pop." My favorite was Faygo Rock and Rye. I thought you could only get it in the Detroit area, and then I was in a funky deli (here in CA) and saw it! For the first time in ages, there was Faygo Rock and Rye! In an old-fashioned nostalgic looking bottle. I BOUGHT it, and am now regarding it as some kind of sacredly scarce icon. I guess I'd better drink it.

Carol - you ask about my weigh loss, and it's funny really but I think what did it was subconcious IE!!!! Long story short... Let's see. Overweight ALL my life. Dieted at 7 years old under Dr's supervision. Counted calories - 1000 a day. Was HUNGRY all the time. Lost some weight, but put it all back on when I came off the diet. Surprising huh? Got up to about 210 at age 14, and stayed there for a fair while. Then I moved in with my Grandparents and was SO unhappy not to be living at home, lost a few friends at school and decided to skip lunches and breakfasts and starve myself thin. Lost 28lbs. Next summer went to boarding school and started exercising with weights and swimming and eating the 4pm snacks that we were given and put on 28lbs! Then worked in a sweet shop And put on another 14lbs, so up to 226. Then left home and started living by myself, lost sweetshop weight. Back to 212. Went to Uni, went out with BOY. BOY dumped me. Convinced myself it was because I was fat. Lost 7lbs eating not a lot at all really. Got job in kitchen over that summer and got Fibro too (or equivalent) lost another 7lbs through being sick of the sight of food that I lived on about 2 bowls of cold cereal and a slice of bread, or a couple of potatoes or whatever was leftover in the kitchens at the end of the shift. Then went back to Uni, joined gym, lost 14lbs through eating reasonably healthy and supplementing a bit with slim fast and snacking on Sugar Free jelly (Jello). Didn't properly count calories at all during this time. Moved in with my (now) DH and lost about another 14lbs (is this adding up right??? ) counting calories (1200 a day ) and I joined my kickboxing class I remember being at 168 then. Last year I started running and got down to 162.5, my lowest ever. Unfortunately I'd stopped lifting weights too. Then wedding stress set in and I gained about 6lbs or so between last May and last November. Fortunately the dress just about still fit! Then on honeymoon I put on about 7lbs then dropped a few before Christmas, then put more on, then took a few off and here I am at 174. This past year or two I have been religiously counting calories, running, lifting, kickboxing. I've upped my protein intake considerably and all I've got to show for it is nice big muscles. Which I love. But I think counting calories and worrying overmuch and worrying if I'm getting enough protein and if it's "clean" just about did my little head in!!!! So I'm thinking that relaxing my mental state might do me some good. Also that goal weight there <- is more about a "dream" weight. Yeah it's be nice to be that weight, BUT I know you'd be seeing my ribs at that weight and I don't really want that! Heck you can already see my ribs above my boobs and I hate that. But we'll see what results IE produces, and I really think that this is the first step in being healthy and slim for the rest of my life. I don't think calorie counting for the rest of my life is healthy. I don't think worrying about protein/carb/fat rations is healthy either. It's just not practical. On my (future) baby's first birthday am I going to bake her a high-protein, low-carb, macronutrient dense birthday cake??? Or am I going to buy the biggest stickiest confection I can find and live life to the full? I think that's a no-brainer, personally! And I know I'm preaching to the converted now....

(sorry, that was a BIT long!!!!)

fiddler - I love that you talk about all that food! It sounds yummy! I recently described what I ate for a nice (and mainly healthy) Sunday meal out on another thread and got the flippin Food ****s saying that I made them hungry! Then they started a "Food Porn" thread where we could "confess" our food porn sins. Needless to say I don't post on that bit any more. LIGHTEN THE HECK UP!!!!

Spiny - Thank you! I love that pic too! I think I might get it framed and hang if on my wall. I look mean! GRRRR!

Re: "Starvation Mode" Personally I'd rather not eat less and be thin. I want to eat so that I don't feel like passing out all the time and so I'm not snappy with DH! I know if I go too long without food I turn into the 3-headed she-devil! RRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR! But I agree, I think it's quite a myth. But on the other hand, I think the body does adapt very well to things and I think sometimes if you've been on very low calories for a while, then you eat a fair bit the next day, your body thinks, "Oh wait, there's plenty of food, I don't need to hang on to this flab quite as hard as I have been doing, maybe we should burn some off." You know, like what happened to fiddler after her big meal? I think the body needs change sometimes.

Spinymouse, your story about your mum reminds me of a book I read, "Eating Myself" by Candida Crewe. It's a UK book but you might be able to get it on Amazon. It's well worth a read. It's about one lady's normal abnormalities with food. If that makes sense. She describes how much she doesn't like her body and sometimes all she'd eat for lunch is a mango. But this was in an effort to get/stay slim. She describes filling her hunger with diet coke and chewing gum and dieting down to look fab for an event, then she realises that actualy it's not worth all that just to look a little bit thinner. It's a great read, but it depresses me because I feel if she just had a bit more body confidence then she'd be a happy person. But instead she's a normal weight person who wears black and thinks she can't wear a bikini and hides. Another book I'm reading is "Diary of a Fat Housewife" which is in print in the US. THAT's another depressing book because she is overweight, but she really hates herself. I just want to reach out to people like that and say, "But you ARE fabulous." And I know this is common dieting wisdom, but you really do have to love your body to get fit and healthy with it. If you're constantly hating yourself, then of course you're going to subconsciously abuse your body by sitting it on the couch with a bucket of chicken, because you don't think you're worth any more than that. But I do also understand that it's a long climb from the bottom when you're sitting there in your underwear with your greasy paw in the bucket of chicken

Anyway, I'd better do some work, since I've been here an hour and a half and only posted on 3FC!

Thanks for that, 2frus. It was very interesting.

Jo, We have friends from the Detriot area that always bought the red pop. I'm not sure I ever tasted it because I'm not much of a pop drinker. Could be because my folks never kept pop around unless company was coming. My dh's parents always had pop around and he is quite a coke addict. He did, however, give it up for 2 yr after being taunted by my mom that he could never give it up. Right before he turned 50 he lost a lot of weight but gained it all back.

Interesting, 2frus! I smiled about the she-devil part. Maybe that's part of the reason my mom was so mean. I'll check out the books you recommended. Thanks! I don't know what my mom really thought of herself. I do know she didn't care about looking fashionable at all. She deprived herself of food the same way she deprived herself of everything else most women seem to like - nice clothes, the hair salon, jewelry, etc. ****, I would get in trouble for buying her a CARD because it was an unnecessary object, and what was she supposed to do with THAT?

But I know what you mean about the worthless feeling. For me it turns into drinking wine rather than eating the bucket of chicken.

And I haven't had regular soda in years - but it will be interesting to see what the Rock and Rye tastes like after all these years. Probably I'll say "ptooey, do they have to make it THIS sweet??"

I need to get back into exercise. I haven't done a thing in 3 years. Ugh. It's so un-fun.

Oh well. Leftover tuna casserole for breakfast today.

Thanks to all for listening.