This was Jayde's idea that came up in another thread so I thought I'd get it started...since she said she has a lot to say on the matter and I'm interested to hear it!

I'm not sure what Jayde had in mind but I would like to talk about things we are doing differently from how we were raised, and habits from childhood that we are trying to overcome, and of course just general ideas about feeding a family (not necessarily just kids...husbands or anyone else you may share your home with) while trying to change your lifestyle and lose weight...

For me a biggie...the biggest in fact, is that my kids will never be told to clear their plates...of food I mean...they do have to take them to the counter! I attribute a lot of my overeating to the fact that I HAD to clear my plate as a child whether I was full or not. I still find myself stuffing food into me when my whole body is screaming STOP...you'd think that would be easy to pick up on but I lived in a house for 18 years where it didn't matter if you were full or not it mattered how much food was left on your plate. I can see what my parents were trying to do...they wanted us to think before we put foods on our plate...but if we made a mistake I don't think that having us force the food down was necessarily the way to go.

My kids also think that brown is the only colour that bread and pasta come in! Well I guess they know that it comes in white...we do leave the house . But I try very hard to keep our grain products whole grain...which my husband hates...the pasta anyway...he likes the bread. And no Quick Oats for us...old fashioned oats and red river cereal (the kids and I really love RR cereal...DH not so much). My kids also love All Bran cereal...they will choose it over kiddie sugar cereal...this one is a mystery to me. I think its because they thought that I was holding back the good stuff for myself when I would eat All Bran and give them something I thought would be more kid friendly. So I guess the take away lesson here is just feed your kids what is good for them and only tweak it if they complain!

But I do also have good habits from my parents that I hope I can pass on to my kids. We ALWAYS ate breakfast. Mom didn't care what we ate (which I actually think its a good thing) but we were NOT leaving the house on an empty stomach. I think its because of this that I never fell into the trap of skipping meals to lose weight. My older son doesn't like to eat first thing in the morning...he just isn't hungry then but I always get some food out for him and he will eat about 15 mintues after the rest of us.

And we always had good balanced suppers that the whole family would sit down to...tv off...to enjoy and talk about our day. This I think is a huge thing to teach kids that meals are more than just food...and something I'm struggling to re-implement since my husband and I got into the habit of eating in front of the tv...

Oh and one last thing I would like to improve on...I want to introduce my kids to more variety than we had as kids. I think the more they taste now the more they will be open to new things later.

These are just some of the things that popped into my head. Feel free to take the discussion in any direction that suits you. I'm interested to hear everyone elses thoughts on the matter!

Casey

Casey, this is exactly what I had in mind! Kudos to you for a wonderful introductory post! I think the only thing my children's meals have in common with mine as a kid is that we sit down for dinner together (as they became teenagers with active schedules and their own cars this became a little more of a challenge but we worked through it.)

I love your sense of humor! I also grew up in a house where you cleared your plate regardless of how you felt about what was on it. My parents tried to show us that our choices have consequences so we would think ahead before loading it with stuff we couldn't finish. Another rule we had was that we would try at least a little of everything. Even if we already knew that we didn't like something, we'd have to put at least a spoonful on our plates. You can imagine some of the tears and battles at the table. We did not raise our children this way. I think it is so important to keep mealtime as pleasant as possible.

What we ate when I was a kid is also so different from what my children eat. When I was a kid, dinner consisted of 2 courses. The main meal and dessert. The meal was usually centered around meat, included potatoes cooked various ways, and some vegetable usually boiled from a frozen package with nothing added.. not even salt.. usually one of the following: corn, peas, broccoli, spinach, a mix of peas and carrots. We had a choice between milk or Kool-aid at every dinner. We drank tumblers full of Kool-aid... I usually had mine refilled twice. Oh, and let's not forget the bread and "butter". Both were available in abundance. White sliced bread and margarine (it was affordable) at each end of the table. Dessert was only available to those of us who cleaned our plates without fuss or fanfare. It was usually cake, icecream, brownies, or jello.

Mealtimes now? It varies so much I couldn't possibly describe it in detail. We eat a typical Korean dinner most days of the week. Dinner is centered around a soup, includes rice (usually white mixed with other grains or beans), and so many small side dishes it would make you dizzy to look. Meat is not usually visible unless it is fish. Pork or beef might be a small part of a side dish or a small part of the soup. The meal itself is planned around colors..something red, something white, something black (or dark green), something yellow or orange..etc. The rice and soup is served in individual dishes for each person. All the other dishes are placed around the table and eaten "family" style ..sharing and eating with chopsticks. Oh wait.. I did say that we don't clean our plates. That is not entirely true. The rice cannot be wasted. So usually I serve a small portion of rice and we go back for a little more if we want. It's never usually been an issue. After dinner barley tea or water is served. Then if we have dessert it is usually fruit. Always served chilled and cut up in easy to eat pieces (the skin is always removed from apples, Asian pears, etc).

A few times a week for dinner we might also eat other types of meals. Pasta with salads or Asian noodles. Other homecooked one dish meals or bbq or seafood and salad. Sometimes multi-course meals which include an antipasto, salad, etc.

I know I haven't yet talked about lunches or breafast. I'll save these topics for later.

I just want to mention that both of my sons are very active slender young men. Today was a milestone for our family. The youngest graduated from highschool so I've been thinking a lot lately about when they were younger. There certainly are some things I would do differently about raising them including our meals. But for the most part I am pleased.

Wow Jayde...you must have been my invisible sister!! Your mealtimes sound exactly like ours...although we never had margarine in our house...that was a dirty word...only butter. Certainly it was on white bread. Kool Aid and milk were definitely what was on tap...or water if it wasn't brown! We got our water straight and unfiltered from the dugout...sometimes it was good sometimes not so good.

And the having to eat some of everything...I can remember sitting at the table for a half hour after everyone else had left staring at my one bite of fish covered in ketchup trying to get up the guts to eat it. I HATED fish. But thats where the conflict in my beliefs now comes in...because I now don't mind fish. And I don't know...is it because I had to eat it as a child or would I have developed a taste for it anyway? In any case I can't see making my kids sit for ages after everyone else is done eating being part of my parenting strategy.

And I don't mean to make it sound like my parents did a bad job or were purposely hurtful...most meal times passed without issue...and I get along great with my parents...its just with hindsight I hope to avoid some of the problems I have for my boys. I guess thats what every parent hopes for.

Congratualtions on your son's graduation!! That must leave you with some really mixed feelings...I think it will for me anyway but then my boys are just 2 and 3 now. 18 years just seems too few to have them with you. Is he heading to college in the fall? In any case it going to be a big adjustment for you...scratch that...I hope its a big adventure for you!

Casey

I guess so! Wow.. imagine that.

My parents believed that butter was superior to margarine, but given how much margarine we every day they couldn't afford butter for such a large family. So when I got a family of my own, I never ever bought margarine. Just yummy butter. Then again, we hardly ever use butter so ...
Imagine my delight when years later studies showed how unheathy margarine was for you. I didn't do it for health, but for taste. It was a good fluke.

Ah, Kool-aid. I bought Kool-aid one time for my boys when they were in upper elementary school. They kept insisting that they were missing out on something. Once they tried it, they decided that it wasn't wonderful after all.

There were only two things that I couldn't swallow (black-eyed peas and liver) and lucky for me my father hated liver so my mother never served it. My poor brother on the other hand.. He'd sit at the table for hours. Today as an adult there are so many things he refuses to eat. As far as the fish goes, I'll bet your taste buds just changed. I love.. absolutely love black-eyed peas now. (You can keep the liver.)

I think my parents did the best as they knew how. That doesn't mean that it was the best health wise.. so I don't blame them.. but know that much of our upbringing had a negative impact on our health and weight.

So do your little ones help you out at all in the kitchen? I remember when mine were that age, we had a make-shift kids kitchen set up made of wooden crates covered with laminate paper. They would pretend to cook right along side me at their tiny stove and refrigerator.

My oldest son is in college. He has his own apartment and will graduate next year. The good thing about having his own apartment is that he can cook many of the foods he grew up on or just take a cooler full of stuff back when he visits here. The younger will start in the fall. Unfortunately for him, he'll be in student housing so he will have to adapt to not being able to eat many of the foods he is used to. He says he's prepared to do this. And since his choice of university is far away, we won't be able to see him often.

Funny thing about college though. I keep reading these threads about it being difficult to lose weight while in college. After three years away, our oldest son is having trouble keeping the little weight he has now. He admits that though he doesn't eat junk, sometimes he just forgets to eat.

I'm thinking of all this change as an adventure. Also a new beginning in all of our lives. Your babes as still so young; blink and you'll find yourself facing the same changes we are now. So.. don't blink!

When does good family nutrition begin? I believe it begins long before becoming pregnant. I read a news article earlier this year about the tendency women who were overweight before becoming pregnant to give birth to large newborns who then had problems with childhood obesity.

I don't know if the article was based on sound research or not, but if it is true, I wonder if the problem is that when one is overweight they tend not to crave foods that are good for them in the first place. I was wondering what your thoughts were on this.

I think you not only crave not so good foods when you are overweight but you also lose perspective on portion size. I really think it is a sort of addiction. I know from my own experience that its a slippery slope and what starts out as just a chip or two can turn into several handfuls and hunger doesn't have to be involved in anyway. I don't know why that is...is it genetic? Is it learned behaviour? I would guess a bit of both. I also think its just good survival strategy to load up on hig cal foods when you can...unfortunately for us where we live "when you can" is ALWAYS.

If you have overweight parents then you are not only seeing poor choices modeled for you but your parents have lost their judgement for themselves and likely for you too, and you likely come from a line of "good survival instincts" as well.

This past weekend we went to a movie and while I was standing in the concession line there was an overweight family in front of me. Mom and Dad could probably each have lost in the neighbourhood of 100 pounds and their daughters...probably in the 8-12 year old range could have each lost 20 or 30 pounds. The mom was in the popcorn line and the dad took the girls over the the other food line...hotdogs, pizza and whatnot. The mom bought a tub of popcorn a big pop for each of them....meanwhile the dad bought the younger daughter an order of chicken fingers and fries too. He told the mom and she said "I already bought her popcorn" he said "she wants both" and the mom said "well I guess she has been playing all day...she is probably hungry". Bad idea I would think but it seemed like no one had the judgement to make better choices and the kid probably ended up getting her whole days worth of calories and then some in one sitting.

I think that some people...and I'm one of them...really need to make more conscious choices about what they and their children eat. You can't just do things because "thats the way we were raised". I know that if you "detox" yourself from the "bad" foods like sugar you will crave them a lot less and feel A LOT better. The problem is we live in a society where it is so in your face its really easy to slip and end up eating the foods we know are triggers and we know we should avoid.

Oh...and with the big mama, big baby comparison...I would guess that that would hold up even if its just beacuse overweight people generally have higher insulin levels and I would guess that would end up with bigger babies...it may not show as gestational diabetes but just being on the "high end" could have enough of an effect to result in a bigger baby.

Casey

Yes... ALWAYS!

It took me quite awhile to really adjust to cooking healthy for my family. I was so programmed to believe that dinner should look like it always had.

One thing I am amazed at is that neither of my children abuse junk food. The oldest absolutely detests it and the younger enjoys it every now and then. Amazing for me because when I was a kid I'd eat sugar straight from the sugar bowl... spoonful's and spoonful's at a time. I've always been able to have candy and chips around the house without the kids going overboard. It usually got eaten by me or thrown out because it was so old. Halloween candy lasted to the next Halloween where I just threw it out. (Too gross to add to the fresh bowl. )

Since the boys were very little, though I didn't prohibit junk foods (just certain ones like Kool-Aid and soda), I did make it inconvenient to consume. In order to get at the candy in the back of the pantry, you'd first have to pass the jar full of nuts, raisins, etc etc. The same went for the freezer. More convenient items were "inconveniently placed" on the bottom or in the back. We've always had candy dishes filled not with candy, but with nuts on the counter or coffee table. Fresh fruit in the frig, in a bowl on the buffet, that is a given.

I was always concerned that if I didn't allow them to eat certain foods, they would go crazy trying to get it at their friend's house or worse make a habit of it when they grew up.

OH, I did throw out a lot of junk food a few months ago. In order to save myself. Not having it around has helped and I don't feel guilty because my son has his own car and if he really wants something like that, he knows how to drive to the store.

I *wish* my boys didn't like the junk food but both will take a spoon to the sugar bowl if I leave it out!

I know what you mean about not having the junk in the house though. We mostly don't have junk in the house unless its left over from a special occaison. And I know it has saved me because there are nights that I find myself wandering through the kitchen looking for *something* and I walk away empty handed or with a ryevita or some peanutbutter because there was just not any of the junk I was craving in there. I've heard people say that after they got off the junk they would crave fruit instead of chocolate but I have yet to see that! Sure I crave fruit sometimes but its hardly a chocolate replacement!

Thats great that your son has managed to avoid gaining weight at college. I wonder if your younger son will fare as well on cafeteria food? I hope his uni has better food than mine had...a lot of it looked like it had been brought down and recycled from the bio labs.

My older son seems to be taking after his dad in build so I don't think he will ever have a weight problem. My younger son...poor baby....looks like he will take after me so he will end up having to watch what he eats. If we have a daughter I really hope she gets my husbands metabolism and not mine! Its too bad but I really think that there is a greater range of sizes that are considered acceptable and even attractive in men than there are in women.

Casey

You really are me. I totally understand this phenomenon. It's almost like sleep walking. And though I think I am strong and making wiser food/ exercise decisions these days, every now and then, I find myself passing the pantry door wishing there were something in there that I could cram down my throat.. like little snack cakes or doughnuts.

I crave fruit, I always have even when I was eating poorly. I can never imagine it replacing chocolate. Chocolate should have its own food group. (Remember.. I am talking dark chocolate.. anything else is no better than the little cakes mentioned above.)

My youngest is going to a military service academy. So while he might have trouble adjusting to their menu, I know he will stay in shape. He'll stay in shape beginning at 5 a.m. each morning.

I read this over and over and over again. Then I imagined how I would feel if either of my children began life as I had (heavy) or struggled with weight in their childhood. I have to admit that I would have a heavy heart. I am totally amazed neither of them do. They are still young. Whether or not they are slender due to gestational environment, exercise, good eating habits, metabolism or whatever, if they don't keep a healthy lifestyle they will find themselves facing the same demons. If that ever happens and I haven't been able to bridle my own demons what could I possibly do?

Then I imagined if I had a daughter how I'd feel. Why is it that if I had a heavy daughter I would be even more distraught? It's not just about heaviness being more acceptable for males than females in our society (thought I admit that is part of it as I wouldn't want her to ever face the discrimination I have). I think the reason it would be more difficult for me to deal with is that I know my boys identify their body image with their father. They've always followed his lead in exercise and eating. I wouldn't know how to help a daughter who would look up to me this way. Even if she were not overweight.. I wouldn't know how to deal with her looking up to me for suppoort in this area. I'm 41 and haven't been able to manage myself. What could I possibly do for her?

Yikes. I am just too serious this morning.

It IS like sleep walking!! I can have been out to the kitchen three times in one night already looking for junk and yet I may make a fourth pass just in case there are some chocolate chips in the freezer. Its like a compulsion. I guess it shows just how strong that biology is that makes us want the easy high energy foods.

Brave kid! On the one hand I admire him for the comittment to something like that. On the other hand I think "Is he NUTS?? Does he KNOW what time 5am IS???". But I doubt there will be any weight gain for him!

You are so right that boys will identify their body image with their Dad! Thats why even though at 2 I can see that my younger son is going to be more solid than wiry I'm not terribly worried that he will be the same as I was as a kid. I know that both my boys will be active like their dad so I hope that will overrule any tendency to heaviness. And I guess I should clarify...I really wasn't a very heavy child...I was maybe a bit chubby for the times 70's and early 80's...but not like I had to go to a special shop to find clothes. What didn't help was having a year younger sister who was *skinny*...like doorknobs for knees skinny. Add to that that I was the only one of four kids who wasn't athletic...and I figured that I must be fat. Its funny how much more than just our actual body goes into shaping body image.

Its funny too that ideas can stick far past when they are applicable. By the time I was in jr. high I wasn't even a little chubby anymore but I spent all through high school and early univesity thinking I was still borderline fat. And I think thats why I didn't notice when the pounds actually started to pile on after I got married. Sounds funny to say that I didn't notice gaining 25 pounds.

Your point that a daughter would have looked to you for guidance on body issues really hits home with me because I am trying to talk my husband into one more kid...our own or adopted. And I really need to get my own issues under control for that to happen. I need to be able to set a good example. For the sons I have now and the possibility of a daughter in the future.

But then I also have to think that the struggles I have had with weight and body image will mean that I can be a more understanding parent about things that my kids may go through...even if its not weight or body image related.

Y'know this could be the first time that I have connected the body image I had as a kid with my weight as an adult. Thats really crazy. You'd think I would have noticed that before now...my head really has been in the sand!

And so ends *my* serious post...

Casey

hmm.. you haven't responded to my question about your little ones working with you in the kitchen... So.. I'm asking again.

I don't ask myself IF he is nuts. I tell myself he IS. (of course out loud I just tell him how wonderful he is.. and how proud we are. )

Hold the phone! My skinny sister is older. Always been skinny. ALWAYS ate more than the rest of us (all my other siblings are overweight).

Ah, so you were just chubby as a kid and grew into your weight as a teenager. I sometimes wonder how many of the overweight kids in my class will find themselves a bit more slender once they start gaining height. Your not noticing a 25 pound weight gain might be unusual to someone who has never been there, but I totally relate. How else could I have passed 200 pounds without even batting an eye lash?

Yes yes yes... it has taken me a long time to realize that my body image I had as a kid is not reality... it is not me. I was told over and over again that my weight was just how I was made .. just like my eye color... just like my hair texture.. nothing I could do about it. It wasn't really an issue with my family anymore than our other features were an issue. I've only just recently figured out that just because I do have a large frame doesn't mean I was meant to be unhealthily fat.

But if I think of the alternative childhood, I am almost glad my family accepted me as I was because it could have gone to the other extreme like being dragged to doctor after doctor over it. In our attempt to educate and help our children with body image there is a very fine line between being a positive influence and fueling an eating disorder or contributing to low self image.

I am really so grateful that you are out there, Casey. Talking with you is like opening a window inside myself.

Ooops...yes...my boys do help in the kitchen to some extent. They love making cookies which usually means there is dog hair or some such in our cookies since they fail to see the problem with petting the dog while we are rolling out dough . But they also get bored easily which means I try to stick to quick stuff when my husband isn't home to entertain them. Lately thats almost every meal.

Those rotten skinny sisters! My sister isn't terribly thin anymore...more average...but she eats a bag of peanut butter M&M's every day too...

I really hope that a lot of the chubby kids out there will find themselves growing into their weight...and I hope that they have someone in their life to point it out to them too so they don't spend 20 years thinking they are "fat" or even just "heavy" when it stopped being the truth ten years ago...

Well that settles it! I'm pretty sure we are living parallel lives or something like that!

My family was also great about my size and never ever made me feel like I should be something or someone else...I also never realised that I could do something about it either. But you're right the alternative of eating disorders isn't appealing so I'm glad that I had the childhood I did.

Funny thing about that fine line...it seems to exist in just about everything!

I'm glad to have you to talk to too...its funny the clarity you can get from hearing about other people's experience! Not to mention having support and understanding....much as my friends and family love me its one of those "ya had to be there" type of things.

Dog hair is edible. As long as it was put there by kids working in the kitchen.

I wonder if my sister would always be skinny. As a babe, kid, teenager and adult she has been. But she has also smoked since a teenager. Like a chimney.

Let's keep it parallel. Both going in the same direction. Towards better health and family happiness.

.

Big shocker here...mine too!

I've never smoked but my oldest son (4 in September) sometimes pretends to smoke since he sees aunts, uncles and grandpa doing it. I HATE that. I tell him smoking is bad and it will make him sick and that its gross and disgusting. I don't know what else to say. At first I was worried about offending people because of course he repeats what I say to everyone we see who smokes but that can't be my problem. My main concern is making sure my kids NEVER smoke. It also freaks me out because I remember my sister pretending to smoke with her crayons when we were kids. The last time we were at the barn with the horses he picked up a cigarette butt and pretended to smoke it. I FREAKED on him. 1) because its smoking and 2) ewwww. I wish Dr. Phil or someone would do a show on smoking!

I hear ya on the moving in the right direction! This past week we had old fashioned oatmeal for breakfast every day. Of course it was because we ran out of cold cereal but its cheaper, the kids like it just as much as sugar cereals and its much better for them...so I think we'll keep it up. DH and I love porridge anyway.

Ok.... now this really is getting weird.

I have smoked. Quitting was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I smoked heavily up until my first pregnancy.. throughout the first pregnancy I was still smoking 2 or 3 cigarettes a day. Not being able to conquer it then put me at the lowest period in my life. After 5 years of smoking I was finally able to quit before my becoming pregnant with my youngest. My eldest never saw me smoke.. but I am sure he must have known. Your son's behavior sends warning zaps up and down my spine. Once I remember one of my sons pretending to smoke a carrot when he was really little. It took all I could to prevent myself from going berserk.

My father smoked around my children but he went out of his way to tell them that he was doing something wrong. That he was ashamed. I was so grateful to him for that especially since it was treated as no big deal when I was a kid and even when I began smoking. I've let my children know that I smoked and how serious the situation was. I think any role model that smokes has an obligation to go out of their way to let the little ones know how this is ruining their lives. Ok..off the soap box..

Oatmeal.. yum! Steal cut oats even yummier.