I've been thinking about this for a while now, so I'm going to see if I can write it down. Feel free to pick it apart and tell me what you think.

When I'm doing all the right things and it's working (good food, exercise, weight loss) I feel empowered. This is 'mine'. 'I' am doing this. See what 'I' can do.

But I'm constantly aware that this skirts perilously close to the 'control issues' that some eating disordered folks suffer.

If you feel empowered by doing the "right" things, how will you feel when you slip up as all humans do? The other side of the coin is that indiscretions in diet and exercise can lead to feelings of worthlessness as in "See what 'I' can't do."

I think it's fantastic to feel pride for taking care of your body, but I hope that you are just as kind to yourself if and when you struggle.

Susan, I agree with you and HungryMonkey. This is a real balancing act.

I'm where you are right now, and I'm feeling very good about it. I'm feeling empowered and "in control". But for me, being in control doesn't mean that I'm always on plan. It means that I'm almost always on plan, and that when I do slip up on occasion, I'm capable of moving on and getting back on track.
I've been on track all week, but yesterday I had a "hungry day", and ate more than I should have. Today I'm moving on. I've forgiven myself for over-indulging yesterday, and I'm eating well today. And I'm still feeling empowered, because I'm okay with myself.
I don't know if that makes sense...
I think that if order to feel "in control", we have to acknowledge that we're human and that we make mistakes. And know that we can deal with them. THAT'S feeling empowered, as far as I'm concerned.

I flounder a bit when I backslide and gain. Intellectually, I know what to do. I acknowledge what I've done wrong and sooner or later 'kick it up a notch' and get back to losing. But let's talk about slipping the other way.
If it feels strong and powerful to be getting closer and closer to attractively slender, what's going to be the kick a little later? Where will the empowerment come from? A little smaller, a little lighter ??
There's a balancing act both ways.
There are probably warning signs that we've tipped the balance the other way??

First, wow, yeah, what an issue! I've been thinking about this control in a really positive way for the most part. What Ellis said makes perfect sense to me. Having control doesn't mean I'm perfect, but this time around, for the first time ever, I have control over what I eat and it feels great! My fear is that I’ll lose the control and go back to my old habits.

But that’s not what you are asking about… you’re asking if the control itself is disordered thinking, as I understand it. Here are my thoughts on that issue.

First, as psychologists discuss it, something that’s disordered is generally maladaptive—that is, it leads you to lose control in a way. Can a sense of control then become maladaptive? I think it can, and so we get eating disorders, for instance.

But I don’t think it has to be that way, in fact, I wonder what the maintainers have to say on this issue. I saw a thread in the maintainers forum recently talking about the distinction between obsessing over something and being dedicated to something. Someone could look at the behavior of always bringing healthy food or exercising every day from either angle, I suppose, but the maintainer says, “I’m doing what organizations that study this say you should do” and the outsider says, “Man, you think about all this way too much!” Who’s right? I don’t know, but I think that if the maintainer feels the behavior is adaptive for her, then there isn’t much of a problem.

The maintainers also talk about the mental changes you have to make after you lose and can’t rely on changes in the scale for motivation. “Yay, I’m the same” just isn’t inherently as motivating as “Yay, I’m smaller!” – so I think they focus on other issues… what those are might be different for each person.

So I guess that a good place to ask this question is the maintainers forum – I think they would understand this balance issue… One thing I have learned from this forum, if you have concerns about something, you are probably not the only one!

Thanks for sharing you wisdom. I really appreciate it. And I agree, if I think this way, someone else probably does too.
I've posted a link and asked the maitainers to have a look.
Thanks again. You've given me more food for thought.

Hi Susan,

Just my 2 cents... I read about an interesting behavioural experiment on the effects of control in the early 1960's. They put rats in cages and gave them an electroshock at random. The rats showed signs of stress. Then they gave some of the rats a button to push that made the shock stop, and gave random shocks. Those rats learned that, and those rats showed less stress. Then they cut the wires from the buttons, so that the buttons did not work anymore and continued with the random shocks. The rats continued to use the (useless) buttons, AND they STILL showed less stress than rats without a button.

The moral of this experiment is that feeling in control is a good thing because you can take life's stresses easier. If you do not feel that you can take an important part of your life into your own hands, then this can make you feel powerless and prone to depression. Much better to have control. I like my buttons, even if some of them do not work.

I think the dividing line on wether this is obsessive behaviour lies with if this behaviour is harmful to you. If you starve yourself, to a BMI way below the healthy limit. If you feel guilty all day or bad about yourself all day. But taking control of your life and your body to do things that are generally healthy is no obsessive behaviour IMO. And if you feel empowereed by it.. that is OK !! Just as long as you focus on realistic goals, like feeling good and enjoying that you are making your body stronger and fitter.

Just my 2 cts...

rabbit

Maybe there's value in recognizing a difference between feeling "in control" and "controlling" -- when I'm in control, I don't feel like I'm slipping out of control. It's like driving a car -- my hand is on the wheel, I'm cruising down the street, I'm keeping an eye out for hazards, but not overly stressing about what I'm doing. When I'm controlling, I'm driving a car, but in the midst of road rage -- everything is an obstacle, I can't go fast enough, far enough, and I'm actually distracting myself from my journey.

People with eating disorders are exhibiting controlling behavior, and are NOT in control. That's why they're disorders. People who are in control may be traveling unfamiliar territory (like when you ask what the motivation will be when you're at goal), and they may occasionally hit a speed bump or slide on an icy patch, but ultimately they are able to recover and say, "Whew! I need to watch for that!" and go on with their journey without getting lost in the need to have control.

I relate to the idea of control - it makes me nervous, it makes me remember painful dieting memories of my past.

I usually don't try to think much about control or willpower - it just didn't really work well for me in the past. In prior dieting attempts, I would lay out paths of perfection. Mainly very low calorie, exactly what I was going to eat. I would faithfully record every bite eaten and I would feel SO GOOD when I was in control with very strong will power.

In the past, I always ate too little (for me). Usually 1000-1200 calories with some days dipping down to 800 (and I used to be so proud of the self control to eat so little!). After awhile, I would just crack and binge on something. A binge to me would be eating something where I didn't feel in control.

Then, I would feel terrible. Awful. What was wrong with me that I could lose control, where was my willpower?

I kind of look at the body differently now. The body reacts exactly how I would like it to react if I were truly faced with a scenario of restriction and starvation. It slows down the metabolism, it protects me to keep me alive and it EATS if there is available food and it needs some. The body can't understand deliberate restriction of calories - it's only been in some parts of the world for a very small part of this century that people weren't struggling nearly every day to get adequate nutrition.

I look at it like this - if I were a prehistoric woman, I would struggle along eating a few roots a day, basically starving. One day, the tribe brings home a mammoth - we would all gorge, eat as much available food as possible. There would be no question of "control" the body does what it must to survive. My goal is to make sure my body thinks there is mammoth EVERY DAY. No need to gorge, there is no shortage of food.

So, now I am in a partnership with my body. I understand that (for me) dieting is not about willpower and control. My body's will to survive is far greater than my will to restrict (and that is a good thing). My body blinks when it hears a loud noise, jerks my hand back if I touch a hot plate and makes me eat when I need to eat.

I changed my goal from calorie restriction (although I remain aware of total number of calories consumed a day) to eating as many healthy foods as possible every day. I am less interested in the calories as I am in making sure I have 5+ servings of vegetables, 2+ servings of fruit, low fat dairy, lean protien, one serving of nuts a day and other healthy fats. I concentrate on food as disease/illness preventatives - blueberries/salmon for the brain, spinach for eyes, tomatoes for cancer prevention, nuts for the prevention of heart disease.

I am in control of my current and future health and that feels okay to me.

Glory -- I loved your entire post, but this really spoke to me (as did the Michaelangelo quote)... Thanks for that perspective -- you put it better than I ever could, but I think this is how I am only just starting to think.

This thread is a jewel. Thanks for linking it on another post today, Susan.

You're very welcome. We're glad to help.
I'm gonna ramble for a bit here because I have another thought process that might be attached to this line of thinking.
One of the Christian concepts that is very important to me and mine, is the 'condition of your heart'. You've all heard the phrase "well, his heart was in the right place"? It's kinda like that. From whence does your intent spring ... It's very noble to want to be an elder in your church but do you want to lead men or do you want to be at the head of things. You get my drift?
My nebulous correlation to constant food thought ... goes something like this.
What is your intention when thinking about what you're going to eat next? Is it to make todays calorie count low enough so that you can have french fries for supper? Is it to find a programme that works quicker than the gal who sits next to you in Latin class? I have taken food to work that I knew would raise eyebrows at the lunch table.
These in my 'lingo' would show the blackness of your heart. Improper intent. Disordered thinking.
Are you thinking about what to eat next to make sure you get enough servings of vegetables in today? Is it because your exercise has been lacking and you need more energy? Are you planning on feeding your body to fend off a destructive binge? This sort of thinking is orderly. The intent is healthy. Your heart is in the right place.
I shoulda had a nap before I tackled that thought. Hope it made sense to someone.

What a great analogy, Susan.

I would add one more question to the positives...

"Is it because you are looking forward to enjoying a nice dinner?"

Thinking about cooking and eating good food is my appetizer.

Susan, I was reading your last post, and thinking, "I don't want to have to deal with this stuff right now!!" Talk about laziness on my part! You're so bang-on with your thoughts, so why is it such an effort for me/us to process stuff like that? Don't we care enough to consider these matters? We put so much into other aspects of our lives. Our children/partners/jobs/leisure activities. So what's with the food?

I saw my psychiatrist yesterday. I've been feeling very anxious lately... there's a lot going on, and I can't get my head around it all. I'm not putting my own needs first. I can't sleep, and I can't organize my thoughts.
My doctor brought up the subject of "value". As in, "Is this thought/activity/etc of value to me?" So I'm trying to make use of the notion of value in all aspects of my life. ie: I need time to myself, but my friend wants to see me this weekend. So I will weigh the value of each choice.
I can relate it to food, as well. As in, "Is this bag of chips of value to me? Do I really need it right now, or should I save it for when I'm needier? Would a bowl of carrots with some dip be of more value to me at this time?"

I think I'm blabbering... Sorry... just trying to get stuff out of my head.
I really appreciate this thread, and all the input from others. Thanks, ladies.

I am new to all of this, not dieting, but posting and all that.
I feel like I have more of a lack of control problem. When I was really successful with my wieght loss plan, it was all I could talk about. I have gained it all back plus more and just can't get back on track. I can sit and read the books and eat candy at the same time. It feels hopeless.