Another thread kinda turned into this subject and away from the original posters question, so I thought I'd bring it up of it's own accord.This may be just one more aspect of health and weightloss that is a matter of perspective.

I'm not sure that fuel is exactly what we mean. It's not as mechanical as putting gas in your car. I think it was Mel who once called her meals feedings. Just as you moisturize your face each day to maintain it, you feed your body each day to maintain it. You don't slather on any old oil ... you've chosen a skin product that suits you, right? You like the feel, the results, the smell ... If we truly believed that our body's only need fuel, we'd eat only shakes, fiber and a handful of vitamins, right?

I often have to temper my first reaction to posts before I type. I can be a bit sarcastic at times. One area that particularly brings this out is a posting like "I hate the taste of xxx food or yyy drink". I want to say "suck it up princess, it's part of the process" but that's not necessarily true. I can honestly say that I don't eat anything that I don't enjoy. If it's less than desireable, I mix it with something.
But by differentiating between the two (enjoyable food and fuel) we may be skirting perilously close to the treat vs diet food issue aka what I'd like vs what I must eat because I've let myself get fat aka treat vs punishment.

Do we feel entitled to variety?

Is the enjoyment of food a very personal thing? Some folks care greatly and others don't bother much? Just like some folks like to read and some don't?

I'm often surprised that folks don't seem to realise that the only way to make new cells is from the nutrition we take in. It's not that they believe in spontaneous generation ... it's just that they never think about making new skin cells or heart muscle cells etc. When we think of it that way, it adds another perspective to the food choices we make. Oral intake as fertilizer, so to speak.

That's more than enough of what I think. Let's see what others have to say.

Since I started recording all my meals on Nutridiary about a year ago, I've become much more aware of what is in my "food account" for the day. Nowadays, I stop and think about whether I really want a small cookie OR a half cup of yogurt for a snack. Before, I would probably end up eating both (or two or three cookies!) I now have to work within my calorie budget to get the most nutrition from my food and at the same time the maximum enjoyment for my food "buck".

I don't eat ANYTHING that I don't enjoy. For, instance I don't like broccoli, but I enjoy lots of other veggies, so why force myself to eat something I don't like? In the past I've tried eating things I don't like and it just makes me feel resentful - life's too short!

I also choose different foods now - one's that are good for my health that I also enjoy, for example - blueberries, grapefruit, ground flax seed, kefir, oatmeal, fish and biscotti (how did that get in there? )

Well, first, let me explain why I personally touched on that subject.

I know a woman who thinks of food as fuel only and nothing more. Now, there's nothing wrong with thinking of food as fuel because that's exactly what it is. When I sit down to a healthy meal, I always keep in mind that with the food I'm eating I'm nourishing my body. I don't eat junk anymore, I eat healthy foods. Lean meats, lots of veggies, beans and legumes, etc. When I eat the food, I feel good about it. Really feel good about it. And I didn't used to. When I'd skim through McDonald's to get my usual order - a Big Mac, a large fry and a 6-piece chicken nugget - and I'd take it home and eat the whole thing, did I feel good about what I was doing? No, I didn't. Because I knew I shouldn't have been doing it at all. I'd stuff my face with this crap knowing it was bad. But I didn't care.

Well now I care. I don't need that junk to survive. I eat healthy now. And I LIKE eating healthy. In fact I love it. Why? Because it makes me feel good about ME to 'fuel' my body with nourishing foods after all those years of pelting it with junk. I like feeling good about eating instead of feeling constant guilt and fighting with myself in my head with thoughts like Linda, stop, you can't be eating this junk. But I want it! It tastes so good! Stop right now. I can't stop. You ate that whole thing. You're a fat pig, a loser, a sad human being with no self control, you really should go puke it all back up. But of course I didn't have the guts for that. I didn't have the guts to put the food down in the first place so I surely wouldn't have the guts to get rid of it once it was eaten. But I thought about it. A lot. These are the 'wars' that would go on inside my head every single day.

I still love food, I can't deny that. I still look forward to eating, I still LOVE to eat. And I was concerned that some people here were looking at it as fuel only, like the woman I know that I mentioned above. She's hardcore about it. She won't put flavorings on anything. Everything she eats is healthy, yes, but very plain. And at first I assumed it was simply because she liked to eat that way. So I asked her about it once. I asked her why she never got creative with her meals and why she never added spices or flavorings to her food and she said - let's first keep in mind she used to be very heavy, almost 300 pounds, and she now weighs less than I do - "Because I don't want to start liking food again. I make it as bland as possible and eat it to fuel my body and then walk away. I don't want it to taste good."

Well, fine, that's her preference. But I thought it to be very sad. She simply doesn't trust herself, is the problem. She feels if she starts 'liking' food again that she'll go out of control and gain back her weight. That's her decision and I have to respect it. But it bummed me out so much. And then when I saw the comments in the other thread about treating food as fuel, it concerned me that there really are other people out there that think the same way 'Jane' thinks.

That's why it touched a small nerve with me

Ya know Linda, I always think that if you think enough of something to actually post, there's probably someone else who's been thinking it too.
Who knows who might be helped by our thoughts and perspectives, right?

I agree

I know I've been helped by MANY of the thoughts and perspectives on these boards. That's why I come here. And I'm hoping my thoughts and perspectives can return the favor

I agree with the idea that food shouldn't be thought of as "fuel" for our bodies only. After all, we'll all be eating every day for the rest our our lives and to remove the pleasure of eating would make life miserable (for me anyway). I LOVE everything I eat and savor every bite.

I once met a woman at a TOPS meeting who told me she ate almost exactly the same bland meals every day so she wouldn't be "tempted" by food. It's sad to fear food that way. I wonder if she was successful in losing weight long-term? Different folks, different strokes I suppose.

All of the above?

Since having started concentrating on eating better, especially more fresh fruits and vegetables, I have been really marvelling how good simple things can taste. A ripe cherry tomato, a fresh strawberry, some roasted red peppers, a nice persimmon - wow. My feeling is that nature created all of these incredible flavors and textures for us to enjoy what we eat. Also, it isn' like there is one food to choose from to get a certain vitamin. Sure, carrots are a great source of vitamin A, but so are sweet potatos, pumkin or spinach. For people who aren't that into fruits and vegetables they don't have to like everything, but find certain things that have the nutrients they need that they like to eat.

The bland eating really reminds me of a puritan sort of mindset - like no dancing because it will lead to lustful thoughts. Denying natural feelings and impulses is not how I choose to live. For some people maybe it is the only way to control their eating - all I can say is that I'm glad that isn't me because I really love the flavors of nature (and of course some of the man made stuff as well ).

I'm looking at food completely differently this past year. I used to love food- actualy I think i was in love with food- any food, anytime anywhere. Now it's about really good food that goes with really good wine!

This is an interesting question but the answer, I think, boils down to each person having to find their own path. We all place our own values on food. For some it is important to eat clean, for others the process of preparing food is a big deal (I happen to be one of these people), flavor is of the utmost importance to others, wheras someone with sensitive tastbuds bland may be the only way to go (my father in law is like this any amount of spice actually hurts if he eats it). And some people just don't think of food at all. I had roommate who was this way. She didn't enjoy cooking, food wasn't a priority, what she ate was decided more by how little effort she had to put into a meal. She wasn't unhealthy, she just didn't get pleasure from food in the same way that some of us do. But, she lead a full life and was passionate about other things. She was an artist who would found it annoying to stop painting just to eat.

As for someone like Linda's friend, I don't relate to her mentality (I could never, ever, think of food that way) but I can see how someone gets to that point. Our relationships with food often aren't much different than our relationships with other people. Sometimes food is like the ex-boyfriend that you can't trust yourself around so you avoid him all together. You know the ones - they are terrible for you but you are somehow drawn to them anyway. Linda made the point that her friend didn't trust herself and, from what I read, I agree. However, I don't necessarily think that is a sad scenerio. Part of trusting ourselves is knowing our limits and recognizing when we CAN'T trust oursleves. It just like there are some alcoholics who can hang out in a bar with their friends and others know that they can't. It sounds like Linda's friend trusts herself enough to know and accept that she can't trust herself with food other than as bare bones nourishment. Yes, that is extreme, but it isn't far off from someone who knows they can't keep Ben and Jerry's ice cream in the freezer.

Our previous relationships with food have instilled fear in many of us. I think that is okay and, in many cases, serves a real purpose. So, is it food? fuel? or fertilizer? I guess my answer is that it doesn't really matter as long as the individual is comfortable with their stance. I know I can watch people chowing down in McDonalds and wonder how they can eat that crap. But, someone who puts an emphasis on eating really clean (SusanB - I'm talking to YOU!) would probably look through my fitday records and wonder the same thing about me.

Exactly. I mean, I'm not a perfect eater either. I could eat more fruit. I could lay off the Lean Cuisines because of the sodium. I shouldn't be grabbing that small handful of M&M's.

That's how someone else might look at it. But with me, I don't worry about it. I don't like fruit, so what? I'm not going to force myself to eat something I won't enjoy. I like my Lean Cuisines, they keep my calories and my portions controlled. And give up the occasional handful of M&M's? No way. I love M&M's, I always have and I always will. I never feel bad for eating them.

In fact I think I'll go grab a few right now

I often refer to food as fuel, too. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy my food and it doesn't mean my diet is bland. I suppose I use the term "fuel" in regard to food as a way to get others to stop viewing food as an emotional thing. Food is not about love and love is not about food.

Folks who use food in order to avoid dealing with emotions are often unable to maintain any kind of slender health. Folks who equate food with love are equally doomed to yo-yo dieting at best and obesity at worst.Seems to me that this woman still has an unhealthy relationship to food. Not to mention that many spices and herbs HELP with weight loss by speeding up metabolism (cinnamon for example) or supporting digestion (basil).
Frankly, when I look back on those raucous family/friend get-togethers that I THOUGHT were all about food, were in reality - all about the people.

I fuel my body with high quality [mostly] organic ingredients and I thoroughly enjoy the process. But I don't WANT any one food (ice cream or chips or you name it), I don't feel deprived because I don't eat cake, and I fully intend to live to 150 years young so I can say "I TOLD YOU SO!" to generations of my family and friends.

heh heh

I’ve wished before that I could just think of food as just fuel, but now that I’m paying more attention to my food and taking the time and effort to make nutritious healthy meals from foods that I enjoy I feel that it is possible for enjoyment and nourishment to go hand in hand. I don’t eat things I don’t enjoy, I’m fortunate that I really enjoy fruits and veggies and whole grain products. That’s not to say I don’t also enjoy cookies, but I can’t feel as good about enjoying them so I indulge in treats like that as often.

I have a friend who wishes they made people kibble ... she simply does not care about food. She eats because you're supposed to, much the same as we wash and brush our teeth.

I'm surprised that everyone is approaching this from the same angle. Does anyone have any thoughts on the mindset that food is a treat, a pleasure ... ? Those treats and pleasures are what got us into this mess, right?

Okay, I'll bite, so to speak.

I do agree with the majority here that food is both fuel and fun -- that seems fairly obvious. But I think that on a primal level, eating, not entirely unlike sex, is a pleasure that ensures survival. Before anyone knew squat about calories and vitamins, humans ate to replace the pain of hunger with the pleasure of being satisfied. Through the ages, people have eaten what they were able to obtain. The difference between us and our ancestors of even fairly recent generations is that the physical effort required of us to obtain food is as little as a walk to the refrigerator. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest the majority of people in developed countries don't know what it is to raise their own food (and there seems to be a small percentage of people who barely even know what it is to cook it).

Modern life has given us access to excess; we now eat too much of the wrong things and must intentionally exercise to maintain a healthy weight. Eating and exercise have become very cerebral things as we try to conquer the hedonist part of us that still wants to eat the tastiest morsels we can get our hands on in the easiest manner possible. The trouble is, nowadays we can get our hands on anything at almost any time. Our consumerist society imposes few limits on us in terms of food, so many of us here are learning to impose limits on ourselves and differentiate among the vast food variety available to us with the goal of making healthier choices. It's become cerebral -- we think about what we're going to eat and what we're not going to eat. Does that take the fun away? On some levels, yes, but there seem to be enough of us here who find new fun in the challenge of outsmarting our own cravings.

I guess what I am getting at is that it is a mentality of self-discipline and self-education that might lead one to view food more as "fuel" than "fun." And there's certainly nothing wrong with using that line of thought to achieve a more healthy balance in life -- it's like anything else that requires hard work and determination to achieve a greater reward. However, I have to think Susan's "people kibble" friend must be a very rare sort of character. I think that as much as I do enjoy healthy eating (because after all, it's still eating ), the more primal part of me would almost always much rather gorge on my favorite fat-laden pizza than snack on more veggies.

I've found this thread very interesting reading. My attitude towards food has changed as I've gone through this process, from the beginning when it was clearly having detrimental effects on my health to now. I certainly went through a phase where I considered food very much as fuel. I took up running and started to see food as the thing that gave me energy to run rather than as a pleasure in itself. Recently though I've made a concerted effort to give myself a lot more variety in what I eat without losing the understanding that what I eat directly affects my performance and my health, and it seems to be working, as well as being far more enjoyable. I'm not sure what I'd call it now, but I love having that variety back in my diet.